ACLU, Some Patients at Odds Over WA MMJ Measure

ACLU, Some Patients at Odds Over WA MMJ Measure
Posted by CN Staff on March 25, 2007 at 13:00:13 PT
By The Associated Press 
Source: Associated Press
Olympia, Wash. -- Some medical marijuana advocates and patients are protesting a measure they supported at the beginning of the legislative session, saying it has been watered down by the process and is now useless."There's nothing left in the bill worth keeping," said Steve Sarich, executive director of CannaCare, a medical marijuana advocacy group. "Trash it."
But the bill's primary sponsor and other supporters -- including the American Civil Liberties Union -- say political compromise is necessary to get the measure through this year and that it still does a lot to help patients who use marijuana to ease pain from cancer and other medical conditions.The measure passed the state Senate earlier this month and was scheduled for a hearing in the House Health Care Committee on Monday afternoon.After it was amended, Sarich said, he and other patients asked the ACLU to end its support of the bill. The organization refused, and a group of patients picketed its offices in Seattle on Friday."The ACLU is absolutely not going to back down," Sarich said. "The patients are really angry. We trusted them."Alison Chinn Holcomb, director of the state ACLU's Marijuana Education Project, said the bill represents progress for medical marijuana patients, even if it doesn't go as far as the original measure."The ACLU ... has experienced and understands that allies from time to time are going to have different opinions about the best strategies to adopt for pursuing a common goal," Holcomb said. "I think that's where we are right now."The main sticking point is a provision added to the bill that would require the state Department of Health to determine the quantity of marijuana that could reasonably be considered a 60-day supply.Initiative 692 passed with 59 percent voter approval in 1998. It gives doctors the right to recommend -- but not prescribe -- marijuana for people suffering from cancer, AIDS, multiple sclerosis, glaucoma and other conditions that cause "intractable pain."But state law limits the amount of marijuana an individual can possess for medical use to a 60-day supply. People found with marijuana can still be arrested, but if they prove it's for medicinal purposes they can avoid being charged with a crime in the state system. That does not protect them from federal prosecution, however.Sarich said doctors , not a state agency, should determine what constitutes a 60-day supply for individual patients."That is completely unacceptable," said Sarich, who said he takes medical marijuana for an incurable spinal disease. "These people aren't even meeting with me. They aren't my treating physician. How would they know how much medication I need?"But Holcomb said doctors do not want to determine the amount of a 60-day supply, because that comes close to prescribing marijuana. If doctors are found to be prescribing the drug, they can lose their ability to prescribe other medications -- which is a federal license.She added that the measure does not ask the Health Department to set a maximum amount of marijuana a person can have. It only asks the department to set an amount that would be presumed to be a 60-day supply.Patients who had more than that amount and were arrested would still have a chance to show that their needs were more than the amount set by the department.The ACLU still supports the bill because the creation of the 60-day supply amount would make it easier for police officers to determine quickly whether a patient is in compliance with the law or not.That would mean fewer arrests and prosecutions of patients, Holcomb said.The measure also would require the Health Department to come up with recommendations on how the state can provide safe access to marijuana for patients and present them to the Legislature in July 2008."This is going to keep the ball moving down the field," Holcomb said.Sarich said patients were also upset that a provision was taken out of the bill that would have allowed them to set up cooperative growing operations, where several could grow marijuana in the same location."Right now, I'm not allowed to grow for another patient," Sarich said. "As a result, the vast majority of medical marijuana patients -- nine years after the passage of the initiative -- are still having to get their medication from drug dealers. That's just not right."Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Wells, D-Seattle, the bill's sponsor, said Friday there were too many concerns about cooperative growing, including how big growing fields should be and how many patients they would serve.Law enforcement wanted the "ambiguity and vagueness" of the 60-day supply language that is currently in the law clarified, and that is why the Department of Health provision was included, she said."I would have liked to have my original bill but we can't get there," Kohl-Wells said, noting that even with a strong Democratic advantage in both the House and Senate this year there still wasn't support."What they may not fully understand is our political realities," she said.And Kohl-Wells insisted that not all patients are against the amended measure.JoAnna McKee, a medical marijuana patient who was active in working to pass the initiative in 1998, said Friday she supported the new bill."The new bill is a big change from what we had expected. It's been very hard for some people to accept," she said. But she added that it "gives us the opportunity to work with the state to solve and answer the questions about supply."Complete Title: ACLU, Some Patients at Odds Over WA Medical Marijuana Measure Source: Associated Press (Wire)Published:  March 25, 2007Copyright: 2007 Associated Press Related Articles & Web Site:ACLU Senate Bill Seeks To Clarify Medical Marijuana Law OKs Revamping Medical Marijuana Rules
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Comment #50 posted by publicbulldog on April 07, 2007 at 21:03:59 PT:
Whig is a registered contrarian
The lack of profitable business concepts has created a Job void,a development void, a retail sales void and a tax collection void..Development needs profitable business concepts under lease in order to better acquire bank funds for new development.Without profitable business concepts under long term lease,new development is nearly impossible.
 New Development must be done by bank loans acquired by having current profitable business concepts under long term lease to pay for the new development.Urban Residential development is being oversold as a revenue source for the city ,and is being paid for by government concepts not profitabale business concepts.Without profitable businesss concepts ,government concepts are all developers,and seattle will have for new development..This leads to higher cost of services,which leads to less profitabilty,which leads to lack of profitable concepts,which leads to lack of commercial development,which leads to lack of jobs,which leads to more services and around and around we go.!As long as criminal justice budgets remain at the 70- 74 percent mark,there will not be a profitable business concept formula.As long as criminal justice budgets remain at 74 percent, density will have no effect on profitabilty of business concepts,and retail sales wherever density is at...The tax collection formula that was best for the city,county,and state, has been destroyed by the lack of profitabilty of business concepts that was driven by volume sales of low and reasonably priced goods and services,and access to those goods and services.
The lack of access to low cost goods and services will never happen on a neglected aging roads system.
The increase in taxes resulted in an increase prices.
The increase in prices resulted in less sales and sales taxes..Criminal justice overfunding is the start of the end of profitabilty of business concepts,and the start of the end of higher sales tax collection.criminal justice overfunding limits new development created by profitable business concepts.Urban development does not change the condition of criminal justice overfunding ,and will not achieve higher retail sales and sales taxes....
If Seattle wants retail sales tax,then seattle needs profitable business concepts that generate sales volumes not sophist utopian socialized urban village mass transit systems.
Developers need urban village socialized mass transit because they have no profitable business concepts under long term lease to show a banker,and they need new developments.
Reduce criminal justice funding so profitable business concepts can pay for seattle development.
Thank you 
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Comment #49 posted by publicbulldog on April 07, 2007 at 21:02:26 PT:
prohibitionist does not fit
Hello fredi,In the 80's I saw the golden goose.I saw the legislature staying over til march to spend all the money.Then the Government overhead killed the golden goose.The legislature needs to reduce cost for business to bring back the golden goose.Lets look at the biggest culprits.Criminal justice.
65 percent of our criminal justice cost are a result of marijuana crimes.
In King county,criminal justice went from 54 to 74 percent of the budget in less than a 20 year periodSales taxes 
Sales taxes have been raised to fill the gap caused by the criminal justice explosion.
The cost of the sales tax rose from 4.6 to 9.00 and above in less than 10 years.Property taxes went up to fill more gaps caused by criminal justice over funding,and education union building.By allowing the marijuana crowd to participate in capitalism,we will take them off the cart.
That is 65 percent of the criminal justice budget off the books,and towing the cart instead of riding in it..That will also curb immigration for jobs.
With The spicoli's of the world back to work at all american burger, we can save those tax dollars for education,healthcare,and welfare services.The perfect economic formula for the golden goose to thrive will not exist unless we reduce the load of the cart.The republicans need to show that They are capable of bringing back the golden goose.
The republican platform needs to accept unlimited capitalism as a west coast platform.The republican party has to show how they can pay for services and maintain the perfect economic formula for the golden goose.
Unlimited capitalism will do that.The republican platform that works in the east will not work here,and has no chance of winning a majority.
Unlimited capitalism platform for blue states will win the majority.Please advocate decriminalizing marijuana crimes. Put the marijuana criminal back to work.Please advocate lowering the sales tax. Without the marijuana criminal on the cart, prices for goods and services will go down,sales will go up,sales taxes will go up.Please advocate a decrease in property taxes.
education has gotten fat.
Please advocate reduction in school districts and dog and pony show's
PUT THE SAVINGS INTO TEACHER SALARIES.The dog and pony shows are killing us.
Instead of the janitor changing the angel hair in resuscitation anne, now we pay someone 60,000 a year to tour the scholl districts with resuscitation anne.
We have doubled the amount of these dog and pony shows,and
The everyday teacher is becoming jealous of the wage and the jobs.These salaries have very little to do with the everyday teaching responsibilites,and pay far more.
The Dog and pony shows by the school districts and the amount of school districts are a weekness.The new republican west coast platform should exploit these weakness's and show how the golden goose will be brought back,and show how we will get more by asking for less.
Thank you
And good luck
John Worthington.
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Comment #48 posted by publicbulldog on April 07, 2007 at 20:43:11 PT:
I will consort with folks of like mind.
Whig wants me to believe that after smoking avid,or malathion laced meds that I should go running to a dispensary to get some more.
No thanks.
I am a med patient ...I dont want dispensaries because I cant trust them to distibute safe meds.
Who test's them
Half of the California dispensaries would not even submit for testing.
Now whig says I dont have compassion just because I wont leave my brain in the trunk and go roll the dice,and risk another year and a half of not being able to use meds at all.
I must have missed a whole lot of 60 minute ephisodes
Whig my friend you are bad medicine.
Good bye whig
My time is better spent on a cable excess show with people of like mind,reaching people in my region.
Good luck Cannabis News
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Comment #47 posted by whig on April 07, 2007 at 20:38:09 PT
before you start dissembling pbd
We know the game. You'll say you aren't a prohibitionist, you think cannabis should be legal under certain conditions, but those conditions must be completely unworkable and lacking compassion.
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Comment #46 posted by whig on April 07, 2007 at 20:35:03 PT
Dispensaries in the bay area
I cannot speak for Washington state, of course, and only as a qualified medical patient who has visited a few. All I have visited have had excellent quality, organic medicine.This publicbulldog has convinced me he is indeed a prohibitionist.
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Comment #45 posted by whig on April 07, 2007 at 20:32:28 PT
Please, don't go on. The facts only seem to get in your way. You don't have compassion for patients.
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Comment #44 posted by whig on April 07, 2007 at 20:28:58 PT
"The State has to sell quality meds"I'm afraid you're plain out of your mind. The federal government does grow cannabis. It sucks, from what I hear.You don't actually know what you're talking about.
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Comment #43 posted by publicbulldog on April 07, 2007 at 19:53:45 PT:
we need dispensaries..poppycock
We do not need an open invitation for Federal involvement.State involvement and lower plant limits = no federal involvement.
Wanna sell drugs and claim its in the name of compassion, fine, Don't expect me to sign on.
I can grow my own,and I fought hard to make the changes that would have allowed the have nots to get their medicine without risking federal involvement.
These people want to read the whine list about how they cant get their medicine and then fight the attempts by the State to do it for them.
Can kiss my grits.
I must have missed 60 minutes when they showed how smoking avid and malathion was a benefit for medical marijuana patients. 
The Washington State legislature sided with my views this time.
I dont want to hear about any patients that cant get their medicine.I have just been busted and have none of my own.
Do I want to go to a dispensary that is not tested and get another lung disease for a year and a half smoking some avid or malathion,no frigin way.
The State has to sell quality meds,if I want a particular strain then I will petition for them to grow it.
That is going to be the fastest way of getting safe legal meds ,not thru a grey market venue.
over 50 percent of California dispensaries tested positive for avid and malathion,and were deemed unfit for patient consumption.
You want to rely on untested ,unsafe suppliers bent on making profit and whine about paying taxes,get real
That is why I havent called the grey market dorks on the list I have.
They will give me bad meds period.
or canadian hay that will give me a head ache.
I dont need this forum to do what I do.
Go ahead and carry on with your wish of dispensaries.
The legislature is not buying it here.
Dispensaries lost this session.Predictably.
California is a good visual aide for our State.
So is Oregon.
Dispensaries are just plain dumb.
The grey market is unsafe,I know,I had a lung infection for a year and a half adfter smoking bad meds.
Otherwise I would be running to one of them right now for some avid ,and malathion laced meds.
Dispensaries no thanks.
I would rather go without.
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Comment #42 posted by whig on April 07, 2007 at 17:23:51 PT
We need dispensaries
When a doctor recommends cannabis, a patient needs to be able to obtain it. Even if the patient is capable of growing their own (and many are not), it takes time, skill and significant expense, plus the risk of having their plants confiscated at any time by police who do not respect medical marijuana patients.Publicbulldog, you are not living in the real world if you think that people will be best helped by being deprived of their medicine until your unworkable conditions are met.
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Comment #41 posted by whig on April 07, 2007 at 17:18:51 PT
"The comment that the vast majority gets its medical marijuana from black market or gray market sources is not confirmed with any real data."That is just insane.Of course there's no "real data" on the black market, because the black market doesn't file returns telling you what their real data is.You are definitely not helping us.
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Comment #40 posted by publicbulldog on April 07, 2007 at 13:18:16 PT:
I do not want a paid position
I can advocate for the changes I think is right on my own dime.
I have already spent hundereds of dollars promoting something that will never bring me any financial return.
Others can not say that. Gray marketeers are growing and selling pot and outspending me to promote p-patches.
Which will never work.I am comfortable doing this alone.
I have identified the Stateholders and made it harder for the Greymarketeers to get the changes that will make more money for them and allow for more federal intervention.
The comment that the vast majority gets its medical marijuana from black market or gray market sources is not confirmed with any real data.
I have also identified CTED as being the Federal governments way of getting federal compliance.
people had no idea about CTED before I started my free research.
CTED will not be able to fly under the radar anymore.
I feel I have laid out the best arguments for my State.
I had a municipality ready to grow it and distribute it.
The gray marketeers were really concerned about that.
They went all over olympia spouting my research and telling the legislature I did not speak for them.
wanna buy a bag dude.
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Comment #39 posted by whig on April 06, 2007 at 13:26:31 PT
if you are seeking a paid position
I won't help you. I don't make anything. If someone wanted to donate medicine, I would accept it. If someone wanted to donate anything, I would consider it. But I would not charge or accept or pay dues to anyone to represent me.This is not going to work that way in my opinion.
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Comment #38 posted by whig on April 06, 2007 at 13:24:48 PT
I would not want you speaking for me either. But I would speak with you. Notice the difference.
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Comment #37 posted by whig on April 06, 2007 at 13:23:54 PT
I don't even want to discuss fees now, much less paid lobbyists.
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Comment #36 posted by publicbulldog on April 06, 2007 at 13:21:03 PT:
have a good week end all
I am heading to a cable access program on at 8 oclock in Portland oregon to discuss the various plant limits.
Check back with yall later.
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Comment #35 posted by publicbulldog on April 06, 2007 at 13:14:02 PT:
reasonable fees
50 Dollars a year.
There are over 5,000 medical marijuana patients in Washington State.
Perhaps three times that many in California.
The goal would be to hire a full time lobbyist for 50 grand a year.It has to be a common goal though.
The gray marketeers wont join because they are making money off of the current law.
The average patient is who we want to represent.
Out of all my non gray market medical marijuana friends they like to grow there own special blend,but would not mimd being able to go to the State if something went wrong with their crop.
Most people I know would be happy growing 15 or 20 plants,and dont want or need a limit over 100 plants.
The gray marketeers want to grow hundreds of plants,and sell lots of pot.
Can you see why they want to use my research ,but don't want me speaking for them.
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Comment #34 posted by whig on April 06, 2007 at 13:02:10 PT
Cannabis Patients' Union
Who wants to join the CPU?
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Comment #33 posted by whig on April 06, 2007 at 13:01:02 PT
How about the CPU
It works for me. :)
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Comment #32 posted by whig on April 06, 2007 at 12:59:53 PT
new union
Health Education and Living Together Here Even Perhaps Living A Natural Ecological TimeIt's not a very good name, but I like using the first letters together. More seriously, if we are going to have a cannabis patients' union, let's figure out what it represents and what we call it.
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Comment #31 posted by publicbulldog on April 06, 2007 at 12:40:06 PT:
 Nation wide Medical marijuana patients union
I like it.
Good idea Whig
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Comment #30 posted by whig on April 06, 2007 at 12:29:02 PT
How about a cannabis patients' union?
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Comment #29 posted by FoM on April 06, 2007 at 12:21:19 PT
OK thank you.
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Comment #28 posted by whig on April 06, 2007 at 12:16:20 PT
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Comment #27 posted by FoM on April 06, 2007 at 12:02:26 PT
I've heard the name Norm Stamper mentioned but I don't know who he is.
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Comment #26 posted by publicbulldog on April 06, 2007 at 11:58:27 PT:
I don't want to Break police unions
I want to promote civic infrastructure unions.I don't want to have somebody get fired because their boss is having a bad hair day.
I dont want the Chinese to meet half way with the Irish
I am not against organized labor.
I am against Unions bullying legislators to grow union payroll.
For example
74 percent of King County(my County)payroll goes to Criminal justice.
They expect 100 percent of the budget by the year 2013.
If those growth expectations are not met every year,the unions bully the legislature to continue the growth pattern.
Now, am I safer walking the dark allies of King County at 74 percent than I was at say 55 or 60 percent,of course not.
Criminal justice has been the most powerful of all unions we have here.
They have grown faster than any other union in my adult lifetime.
Do the math.At 74 percent of King Counties budget that would leave 26 percent for every other branch.
If you want to look at why we have a services,and infrastructure deficit look no further.
Now,if those other unions were as powerfull,there would not be as much of a funding disparity.
Also they have figured out that if thereis a place were we can pad union membership,Criminal Justice is the place.
The people want to feel safe.
when they hear numbers like 74 percent of the budget it doesnt faze them when its Criminal justice..
If it were say human health services they think of somebody feeding from a trough.
Even though car theft is at an all time high,and meth use is rampant. criminal justice crime rates are rising.
We are no safer walking the dark allies of King County at 74 percent than we were at 55 percent.
Another thing the unions have figured out is the more we spend on criminal justice the more we need for criminal justice.
That is what enables the bar graph to continue to get higher and higher.
Marijuana should have come off of the Criminal justice cart long ago,but the marijuana enforcement industry has grown to epic proportions.
We are law enforcements favorite target.
We are easy prey, we usually Dont carry guns,and they can seize our property.
When you see law enforcement refusing to take even the medical marijuana patients out of the marijuana enforcement industry loop that is when you can see the lust for continued growth.
They cant grow the Bar graph without us so they refuse to remove us from the enforcement loop,because they need us in the body count. Compassion means nothing.
Union growth means everything now.
We need to go after the CTED agencies IN Both california and Washington to cut off the ability for those States to be bribed into federal policy enforcement over State policy enforcement,and we need to pit the Civic infrastructure unions against the law enforcement unions.
We need to encourage a mode shift of funding.
People will relate to being forced to move into a high rise because we cant afford to build High Speed rail or other eco friendly strategies,so they can live where they live now and commute by high speed rail.
The draconian social engineering Strategies we will be forced to endure will be a good visual aide to use to instigate that mode shift of spending more on civic infrastructure.
So you can see it is not a cut law enforcement strategy,that itself will not work. It has to be a cut law enforcement,SO WE CAN BUILD HIGH SPEED RAIL, so Jed and Elle may Do not have to move into a high rise downtown strategy.
That will be an easier sell.
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Comment #25 posted by whig on April 06, 2007 at 11:29:21 PT
my apologies
If you have already done so and I have just been unable to find it.
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Comment #24 posted by whig on April 06, 2007 at 11:28:06 PT
Norm Stamper
I'm not sure you're with us on medical marijuana because I've never heard you address it. Would you please do so?
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Comment #23 posted by whig on April 06, 2007 at 11:26:03 PT
This is not a union that can be broken nor should be, but we should have conversations. LEAP can help us.
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Comment #22 posted by whig on April 06, 2007 at 11:24:29 PT
So the problem is the police union, if I understand you correctly.
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Comment #21 posted by publicbulldog on April 06, 2007 at 10:09:35 PT:
 Legal Medical marijuanaCTED is Community Trade and Economic Development.
CTED is the agency that applies for,receives Many Federal grants and matches the federal funds with State Funds.
When the matter of growing and distributing medical marijuana legally under the Federal controlled substances act comes up,CTED is the underlying reason why Washington State does not Grow and distribute medical marijuana legally.
The Federal Government has learned how to get Federal compliance in State's that have legalized medical marijuana.
The Federal Government gets Federal compliance by threatening to withdraw Federal grants.To some state's like Oregon there is not a great big bureaucracy that stands to lose thousands of Jobs as a result of deciding to clash with Federal policy.California ,and Washington has been guilty of violating its own medical marijuana laws for the sake of those State's to keep getting Federal grants and continue feeding from the Federal trough.In recent years however those Federal grants have been drying up.
Now Washington State pays 60 percent to a Federal 40 percent to enforce Federal law over State law.
Soon Federal dollars will dry up and Washington State will be funding 100 percent of CTED.Washington State needs to come to grips with the fact that funding for CTED will be so minute that it is not worth propping up anymore.
CTED is a feel good Federal grant agency that has been a mechanism for which the Federal Government can get Federal policy compliance.
Washington State needs to make a mode shift to enable those state tax dollars to be spent on State policies not Federal policies.
this mode shift should include a transfer of Law enforcement funding to civic infrastructure funding.
This will be sure to cause an uprising in the law enforcement community.
However we have A civic structure deficit not being properly funded,and Washington State laws not being properly enforced.
Washington State must consider a day when CTED no longer will be the big fat federal trough to feed at no matter what the price.
Washington State must stop the criminal justice snowball and start the Civic infrastrucure snowball.
Now is the time to consider life after CTED as we know it.
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Comment #20 posted by publicbulldog on April 06, 2007 at 08:23:14 PT:
Thanks had enough
The Chairwoman of the board of health was in the State legislature in 1997 so she knows why the pilot program to distribute medical marijuana to the have nots was killed.
Community Trade and Economic Development.
They recieve and distribute hundreds of federal grants.
I am sure other States have the same thing.
Anyway, the Federal government knows that certain States,like Washington and California have these little empires propped up with Federal grants,so they simply threaten to cut funding to the mini empire,whom is afraid to have to pay for the Salaries of the mini empire with State money or worse have to terminate their positions,so they comply with Federal laws and policies.
In short Washington State and California are being bribed to enforce Federal medical marijuana laws over State medical marijuana laws.
99 medical marijuana cases in California have been Started by the State,20 or so in Washington State.
Most people think this is a rogue county thing.
In some cases it is,but it is a union thing.
The Government service union and the law enforcement community unions are a powerful lobbying force.
If they lose union payroll there will be a price to pay for the legislator whom they hold responsible.
The Unions up here have a standing threat to Washington State legislators.
Cost us payroll and we will back a competitor to run for your seat in the next election...
Julia Patterson (the board of Health chair)Knows all about this.
She sits at the head of the table at the Democrats water buffalo lodge in Seattle.
She serves the Kool aide,and teaches the secret handshake.
She knows that the legislature won't change the law to allow a municipality to grow and distribute medical marijuana legally under the federal controlled substances act,and she knows why.
The feds will pull the funding, CTED will have to be funded entirely by the State,there will be a domino effect costing union jobs somewhere in the capitol,a UNION BACKED CANDIDATE will be knocking on doors in that persons district.
I am positive the same situation exsist in California and elsewhere.
The other groups like to use my reasearch when they get up in front of these panels and committee's to get the legislatures attention.
Then at the same time tell them I don't speak for medical marijuana patients in Washington State.
Well I don't want to speak for Washington State medical marijuana patients.
I just want to inform them and let them speak for themselves.
We have a big problem up here with groups trying to get media attention to be "THE VOICE"of medical marijuana.
Most of those groups represent either the Grey Marketeers who want to make money, or Law enforcement who wants to undermine the law..
I want the State of Washington to grow for the people who cant grow(the have not's)and supplement the other patients when they have crop failure or during the summer when indoor crops have a hard time (have's).
This would allow for a smaller plant limit,and allow for State involvement.
both of which are key for less Federal if not any federal involvement.
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Comment #19 posted by Had Enough on April 06, 2007 at 04:58:15 PT
Bull Dog
publicbulldog… that is….Good job, keep up the work.A little here, and a little there from all fronts, can go a long way. You have done a lot.It seems from here you are getting out there and in their face in a proper way. Thank you, and go for it. I watched the video of you addressing the Board of Health. Every Board of Health & Town hall meeting should have someone speak to them, like you did.But did you notice how the chairman politely referred you to the lawmakers, and had excuses for being to busy to deal with the issue? I could the see stuff all over her. I’ll bet she was thinking to herself, Oh no, not again, how can we avoid dealing with this? What am I going to say now? I’ll also bet she wished her comments weren’t going to be public record.Yes she was good, but I can see the end, and so can she. She is on the run, with the rest of the prohibitionist bunch.It’s very interesting the different answers the powers that be gave to a simple question. That one little question can have major impact. Your results should be in every newspaper, and TV news show.and a tip of the 'helmet’ to you..........
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Comment #18 posted by FoM on April 05, 2007 at 14:43:12 PT
That's the best way to learn more by e-mail. Thanks.
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Comment #17 posted by whig on April 05, 2007 at 14:39:45 PT
I sent mail to your address on that website.
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Comment #16 posted by whig on April 05, 2007 at 14:32:52 PT
It is an interesting website. I agree we should not encourage more discussion of the preceding topic. As for whether and which counties in what states recognize the right of patients to have medical marijuana, I'm glad to have all the data we can.
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Comment #15 posted by publicbulldog on April 05, 2007 at 13:01:01 PT:
Just wanted folks to see my study
Just so they could see for themselves who did it.
Sorry FOM.I just want the people to know the truth.
I think it is only fair.
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Comment #14 posted by FoM on April 05, 2007 at 12:58:38 PT
I thought we agreed that you would stop. 
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Comment #13 posted by publicbulldog on April 05, 2007 at 12:34:08 PT:
notice the different interpretations
Some of our Counties do not allow it at all.
Did you notice who they were responding too.
Can you imagine the work that went into a project like that.
Would you be upset if someone else tried to take credit for your work in the media.?
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Comment #12 posted by whig on April 05, 2007 at 11:55:53 PT
That's an interesting website, it contains letters and replies from public officials in every county of the state of Washington on their position vis a vis medical marijuana?
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Comment #11 posted by publicbulldog on April 05, 2007 at 10:48:40 PT:
My research
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Comment #10 posted by publicbulldog on April 05, 2007 at 10:26:53 PT:
FLame off
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Comment #9 posted by whig on April 05, 2007 at 10:14:16 PT
Are you asking someone to make self-incriminating statements?
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Comment #8 posted by publicbulldog on April 05, 2007 at 10:09:58 PT:
did you have a caregiver
answer the question
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Comment #7 posted by whig on April 05, 2007 at 09:07:18 PT
Steve Sarich
I don't know what's going on up there, but you just outed someone's name.
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Comment #6 posted by Steve Sarich on April 05, 2007 at 08:10:48 PT:
I know that John never let's facts get in his way, but I thought I'd clear up some of errors in his posting.As one might expect, we have a number of disabled veterans in our organization. I'm proud to have two vets on our board of directors, John Markes and Steve Newman. I don't think we have any more vets, per capita, than any other organization, but even if we did, what is that supposed to signify...that vets are somehow not to be trusted? That they're actually federal agents? I don't get the point. I know that we used to have one disabled ex-cop in one of our chapters, but I haven't heard from him in quite some time. But he grows in his home, so I'm guessing he's not a federal agent.As far as I know, we have no one that's been federally indicted...not that I'd have a problem with someone who had been. The one person that John mentioned as having been indicted by the Feds, Zachary Joy, has never been indicted or arrested by the feds that I'm aware of. I have never been arrested or indicted by the least so far.:-) I'm not sure what John is trying to do with these innuendos other than the obvious attempt to slander our organization and spread mistrust in the community.Every organization of any size ends up with a few "John Worthingtons". It used to frustrate and upset me, but then my good friend, Jim Greig, a well-know Oregon activist calmed me down. He told me something that I always fall back on when we get a "Worthington" around here: "if you run a non-profit organization and don't have at least one simply aren't reaching enough people." I laughed and immediately knew that he was absolutely right.I'm sure we'll end up with more "Worthington's" at some point. All you can do is watch for signs that someone is unstable and weed them out when they turn their mania on others. I don't know anyone in the Washington medical marijuana community that John has not publicly attacked and accused of one crazy conspiracy or another.Next you'll hear that I get my personal meds from a very short green guy. (he has a very fast ride too!:-) Steve Sarich 
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Comment #5 posted by publicbulldog on April 02, 2007 at 14:08:12 PT:
stay away from Cannacare
Do not get an medical marijuana authorization
from Cannacare.
Your records are not safe.
Steve Sarich had a caregiver and still not get arrested.
Storing records at the same location is not safe .
Your information will be compromised.
He lies like a rug.
He represnts danger. avoid.. beware...
It is a trap
How many ex navy , ex army,ex cops,federally indicted people do you need in one organization.
Send them a duck call and a duck blind.
They are trying to expose patients records by keeping them on site.
What a dork.
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Comment #4 posted by SoberStoner on March 27, 2007 at 21:49:59 PT
Why just 60 days
I don't see how having a standard of 60 days supply makes much sense. It takes longer than that for the plants to grow to maturity from seed. I would much prefer to see a 6 month supply in the bill, as that would provide people enough time to grow their own supply.But saying that this bill is worse than the one on the books is ludicrous. This bill at least starts to provide legal frameworks for caregivers, and helps clarify the muddled piece of garbage that is currently on the books. Of course, it doesn't matter since the feds will still stomp all over it, but the very fact that this bill is progressing forward is good news in itself. No it isnt perfect, but at least it's something.
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Comment #3 posted by FoM on March 26, 2007 at 10:45:33 PT
John Markes 
I have tried to follow this case but I really can't seem to understand it. A 60 day supply could vary per person. I'm guessing but if a patient decided to cook with marijuana they would need much more but I could be wrong. What has people so upset?Why is this even an issue?What is the purpose of the law?
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Comment #2 posted by John Markes on March 26, 2007 at 10:28:53 PT
The 60 day supply -- A comparison of two positions
There are currently two positions taken on the issue of a 60 day supply for medical marijuana patients. This is a comparison of those two positions.Position 1:
Having the government set a presumptive amount, where patients who need more can petition for a greater amount.Patients:
-As compared to no guidelines at all a specific limit is good for people whose needs are within the limit.Con:
-Patients needing more than the presumptive amount and/or their doctor must petition for a higher limit. A bureaucratic burden for many.
-Not specific to patient needs like other medications.
-Easily taken advantage of or readily prosecuted for accidentally going over the limit.
-In places where LEOs are not in compliance with or abuse the law patients will still be unsafe.LEO:
-Easy for LEOs to determine patient compliance, as long as they only need the presumptive limit or less.Con:
-Those needing significantly less than the limit may actually grow the full amount and sell the extra, so there is limited control.
-if the patient has been authorized to use more than the presumptive limit the LEO must take extra time to go through the paperwork.Position 2:
Amount each patient needs is specified by the doctor on the doctors recommend.Patients:
-Amount tailored per patient.
-Patients feels secure, not having to worry about exceeding arbitrary amount.Con:
-In places where LEOs are not in compliance with or abuse the law patients will still be unsafe.LEOs:
-Specific amount on recommend instantly tells officers if patient is in compliance with the law. By using amounts specific to the patient there is no variance for growing amounts beyond what the patient actually needs, thus limiting diversion to the black market.
-More specific and easy to do.Con:
Time -It might require a few more minutes to read the documentation to find out the specific amounts for the particular patient being reviewed.With no other factors involved, this comparison shows that amount specific to the patient stated on the doctors recommend is a better option for both patients and LEOs. The biggest problem with this is that neither position protects the patient from LEOs who ignore or abuse the law with no accountability.It seems to me that the best option is to codify in law that the doctor must specify the maximum amount a patient might need for their condition and to write a law to hold LEOs accountable. This will provide the best protection for patients, give LEOs a simple and easy method to verify a patient's compliance, and provide accountability.If anyone sees any error or can think of additions or changes that should be made, then please respond.John MarkesPS A doctor specifying the maximum amount of patient may need for their condition on the recommend does not put them in danger of writing a prescription. If anyone would like to see my previous analysis showing this, please let me know and I will be happy to repost. 
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Comment #1 posted by John Markes on March 26, 2007 at 10:19:15 PT
ACLU Screws Patients
The patients, co-ops, and the ACLU met about the bill. Over 90% voted against it. But the ACLU wishes to shove it down our throats. In legal debates with the ACLU, their position was refuted, and they lost much credibility. Their lack of humility is astounding, especially when they've been shown to be wrong in their legal position. They've decided what's best for us, whether we like it or not. Today patients from around the state are converging on Olympia Washington to testify in protest against this horrible bill. They have refused to help patients in court in the state of Washington, but they're not above shoving law down our throats that we don't want.It is truly a sad day when the ACLU works to take away the rights of the people.
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