cannabisnews.com: Suspects Say Pot Is Part of Faith
Suspects Say Pot Is Part of Faith
Posted by CN Staff on August 25, 2006 at 09:38:31 PT
By Scott Sandlin, Journal Staff Writer
Source: Albuquerque Journal
Arizona -- An Arizona couple who claim marijuana as deity and sacrament— as well as food, shelter and medicine— staked their religious freedom claim this week in federal court in Albuquerque. Danuel and Mary Quaintance of Pima, Ariz., were arrested in February in Lordsburg with 172 pounds of marijuana in a car driven by another church member who has subsequently turned state's witness. Mary Quaintance's brother was subsequently arrested in Missouri with 300 pounds of marijuana and was joined as a fourth defendant in the case.
The Quaintances are charged with conspiracy and possession with intent to distribute more than 50 kilos of marijuana, which could mean substantial prison time upon conviction. The U.S. Attorney's Office contends the Quaintances are attempting to use religion as a cover for a drug organization. The Quaintances say they have a right to cannabis as the central focus of the religion they co-founded, a diffuse, decentralized group of perhaps 130 adherents nationwide called the Church of Cognizance that functions primarily through "individual orthodox member monasteries." In support of their legal position, they point to a U.S. Supreme Court decision in another New Mexico case, O Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao do Vegetal, or UDV. The 130 or so North American practitioners of that religion, many in Santa Fe, use a hallucinogenic tea called hoasca. Over three days of hearings in the Quaintances' criminal case, U.S. District Judge Judith Herrera heard testimony from a Berkeley-trained anthropologist, a Zoroastrian priest and the Libertarian candidate for U.S. Senate in Arizona, who is the former sheriff in the county where the Quaintances live and is also a Mormon. A Sincere Practice The defense filed a motion to dismiss, saying the Quaintances' use of cannabis is a sincere religious practice. Danuel Quaintance founded the Church of Cognizance in 1991 and registered it as a religious organization in Arizona in 1994. The religion, he testified, is based on his own research and interpretation of religious texts and is a form of neo-Zoroastrianism, an ancient religion that holds sacred a drink made from a mountain plant called haoma. The plant, the drink and the god are the same in the teachings of Zoroaster. The Quaintances believe that cannabis, hemp or marijuana is haoma. Deborah Pruitt, a cultural anthropologist and college professor in Oakland, Calif., who conducted doctoral work with Rastafarians in Jamaica, testified as the defense expert. She distinguished "experiential" religions from faith-based religions that rely on institutionalized doctrine passed down through specialists. Christian pentecostals, Wiccans, practitioners of voodoo and Sufi trance dancing as well as participants in the peyote rituals of the Native American Church or UDV members share characteristics of religions that rely on direct experience to make contact with spirits or deities, she said. The use of psychoactive substances in religion is not unusual in regions of the world where they occur, she said. In those religions, the plants are typically referred to as teachers and healers. Pruitt said new religious forms are typically viewed by mainstream groups as cults or charlatans that challenge mainstream religions, but are no less genuine. 'A Priceless Gift' Prosecutors called as their expert a retired scientist and Zoroastrian priest born in India and living in Canada to testify about the tenets of his religion. Jehan Bagli, whose research area was medicinal chemistry, said he was ordained at age 13 in the Zoroastrian religion. Bagli said haoma in the ancient Zoroastrian tradition was a deity and plant that scholars believe may have had hallucinogenic properties. But he said different plants were employed over the centuries and at present, "We have no knowledge what that plant was." In present-day Zoroastrian ceremonies, he said, "the mind is considered a priceless gift. Any mind-altering substances are abusing that gift of god and would not be accepted." Herrera said she would accept written arguments and review documents and transcripts before deciding whether to dismiss charges based on the Quaintances' assertion of their right to freely exercise their religion. Marc Robert, attorney for Danuel Quaintance, will make the case that Quaintance is "a spiritual man who has followed his religious beliefs and practices at great personal risk." Assistant U.S. Attorneys Luis Martinez and Amanda Gould will argue that the defendants are drawing from "a hodgepodge of unsupported speculations for most of their assertions... in an effort to cloak themselves in a religious mantel." If Herrera finds that the Quaintances are sincere religious practitioners, prosecutors will be required to show that there is "compelling government interest" in burdening religion by barring use of marijuana under the Controlled Substances Act. Meanwhile, the Quaintances are free on bond and conditions that include not using cannabis while the case is pending.Source: Albuquerque Journal (NM)Author: Scott Sandlin, Journal Staff WriterPublished: Friday, August 25, 2006 Copyright: 2006 Albuquerque JournalContact: opinion abqjournal.comWebsite: http://www.abqjournal.com/Related Articles & Web Site:Church Of Cognizancehttp://coc.enlightener.net/ Marijuana Church Claims Offend Believershttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread22017.shtmlPot Church Takes a Hit http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21980.shtml
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Comment #38 posted by Toker00 on August 26, 2006 at 15:23:18 PT
Whig, after more thought...
The Tree of Knowledge, which was forbidden in Eden, gave Adam and Eve instant knowledge of ALL things, and they were cast out with that knowledge, possibly incoded in their genes, passing this curse down trough the generations, fullfilling the "toil". The Tree of Life, which was also consumed by them, was also incoded in their genes, our recently discovered cannabinoid system being proof. Knowledge was prohibited, because God knew the great EVIL it could produce, and well as the GOOD. He wanted us to avoid the EVIL, but he KNEW we wouldn't. The Tree of Life has always been available for Mankind, as a testiment of God's forgiveness and love. Which we need more now than ever, and why Cannabis is becoming so abundant. God is RAISING it. I haven't figured it out either, because we won't "figure" it out, for a while, yet. If we did, God would not be the mystery we seek so hard to solve. Our questions may not be answered until we are capable of Living The Answer. We would not be ill advised to follow through with that society you speak of. Abandon the government that exists, and prepare for the government of God. Museman has the right idea to the education of the masses through small gatherings throughout the Nation (World). Those of us (and I won't include myself in this group unless asked) who understand that the present path Humanity is following is surely one to great destruction and suffering, must be willing to attend these gatherings, and Teach. The people of the Earth must cast off this government by the UnGodly. The destruction of God's Creation must not be allowed to continue. I have just one question to ask. No answer expected. What must we do to stop this? People do not want war. Only war profiteers want war. (Ok. Two questions) Why are we allowing them to rule us? It MUST stop. It must. All over the world. Simultaneously.Toke.
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Comment #37 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 14:33:43 PT
It's worth saying two or three times...
but I didn't mean to. :0)
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Comment #36 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 14:32:01 PT
Really beautiful to behold...
The joy, the seeking, the wonder, the sharing, and the love I see here.It's wondrous. It really is.
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Comment #35 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 14:30:43 PT
Really beautiful to behold...
The joy, the seeking, the wonder, the sharing and the love I see here.It's wondrous. It really is.
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Comment #34 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 14:12:40 PT
Nuevo Mexican
I really like this that you said."...like a sling-shot, where we appear to be going backwards, though we are about to get slung forward very fast, once the sling is released..."Cool.
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Comment #33 posted by whig on August 26, 2006 at 13:49:02 PT
Hope
"He will insist on bringing you together with others for understanding a great deal of the time...if not most of the time. He just likes to do that, I think...bring us together and speak through many different people and times and ways."We seek one another, and who seeks shall find.
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Comment #32 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 13:38:12 PT
comment 28 So true, Max.
So true.Their(those attorneys that say that)minds and hearts certainly seem corrupted to me.
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Comment #31 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 13:32:38 PT
Forgot to finish this sentence...
"Sometimes an understanding came to me directly from the Spirit...other times it came through a person...man, woman, or child...and I knew it was real and true."....and I knew it was the work of the Spirit. He will insist on bringing you together with others for understanding a great deal of the time...if not most of the time. He just likes to do that, I think...bring us together and speak through many different people and times and ways.
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Comment #30 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 13:29:01 PT
Old and seminary trained and all that...
Learned a lot from a preacher who was much, much older than Brother Marsh and been preaching for twice as long. I learned a lot from him...although I didn't agree with him on everything. He didn't approve of the cracker and grape juice communion, because, he insisted that the Bible is the Bread and Wine...aka known as The Body and The Blood, and he said that the Bible is also that "glass"...through which "we see darkly". I've learned a lot from a lot a different people, including children, and even the "legalistic" among us, in a lot of different ways over the years. Understandings that I know were the work of the Spirit and worked in mysterious and amazing and wonderful ways. Sometimes an understanding came to me directly from the Spirit...other times it came through a person...man, woman, or child...and I knew it was real and true.Questions I had weren't always answered right away, but amazingly, I think, they were always answered, sooner or later. Some have yet to be answered...some have yet to be asked.Your's will be, too, Whig. Sometimes I got answers to questions that I didn't ask even!We are never too old, or too knowledgeable, or too well trained, or too smart to learn something else...even from the same piece of scripture. It's a fountain, sort of, and it can't all be consumed and digested at one time. There's always more. If you think there is too much contradiction in the books...remember there's a little bitty verse about "Every scripture has it's mate"...to compliment...to balance...to keep us all from "getting too big for our britches".:0)Whether it's The Bread, The Wine, The Body, a Map, a Window or a Glass or stories or letters or parables or treasures, or gold or pearls or jewels...it's an amazing powerful collection, full of mysteries and wonders and answers...if you can see or hear them. When you stop learning from it is when you know it all or you don't leave the door open...or your heart and mind open.
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Comment #29 posted by FoM on August 26, 2006 at 12:49:42 PT
whig
What the tree in the garden has always meant to me is after eating the fruit from that tree people would be able to recognize good and bad. They weren't sheltered anymore by God. They lost their innocence. That's only my opinion but that's what I believe.
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Comment #28 posted by Max Flowers on August 26, 2006 at 12:49:41 PT
Arrogant government criminals!
This quote is particularly infuriating: Assistant U.S. Attorneys Luis Martinez and Amanda Gould will argue that the defendants are drawing from "a hodgepodge of unsupported speculations for most of their assertions... in an effort to cloak themselves in a religious mantel."Who is a U.S. Attorney to question a person's belief system and religious faith? The arrogance of that is mind-blowing. They call someone's sincere beliefs a "hodgepodge of unsupported speculations" as if they are the final judge of what religion is to a person, and what they are allowed to believe. That is the height of arrogance. They are nothing but PUBLIC SERVANTS. Government employees. But I suppose that's the point: they are being paid to shill the government's position. They are modern-day Spanish Inquisitors. "Say you believe in OUR god, and renounce your weird heathen practices, or we will torture (imprison) you." That's their game, and it hasn't changed in centuries.Well my beliefs (and the Zoroastrians') are NOT unsupported speculations! My beliefs are my beliefs, and they are sacrosanct as spelled out in the Bill Of Rights, even if they are not easily defined and fit neatly into some kind of Christian playbook! These evil U.S. Attorneys commit a federal crime when they seek to deprive Americans of their Constitutional rights to religious freedom, and they do it under the color of authority, which deepens their crime. It is these U.S. Attorneys who should be going to jail, not these peaceful people who merely want to pursue their beliefs which involve using cannabis as their sacrament.
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Comment #27 posted by whig on August 26, 2006 at 12:44:11 PT
Paul Peterson
Amen to you brother Paul.
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Comment #26 posted by whig on August 26, 2006 at 12:35:52 PT
God's Prohibition
When we were children we were not allowed to do some things we may as adults. When we were in the Garden there was a Tree which would awaken Lust within ourselves, and that Tree would end our childhood -- and begin our adolescence.Maybe think of it as a parent would, and seeking to delay the end of innocence as long as possible, and warning of the consequences.I don't think it's wrong to prohibit your kids from doing certain things until they are old enough to manage the consequences.
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Comment #25 posted by whig on August 26, 2006 at 12:10:00 PT
Nah
I do not believe the Bible is the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.I had to work through but it resolves in a paradox and contradiction. I won't repeat my reasoning here unless you want me to because it might be confusing to see me make an argument that is wrong for the purpose of showing it is wrong.I don't think Education is the Tree of Knowledge either.That is a mistake in my opinion, because God has never forbidden us from seeking Knowledge itself. The idea of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is that it presents "Good" and "Evil" without the context and knowledge that we are all one.But I'm still not done thinking because the God's Prohibition question is still bouncing around.
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Comment #24 posted by whig on August 26, 2006 at 12:02:24 PT
Toker00
You've made me think.I'm still working through this.Prohibition is wrong -- even for God?That up-ends things, doesn't it?
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Comment #23 posted by whig on August 26, 2006 at 11:57:30 PT
Toker00
The Bible is the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.Is it not?
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Comment #22 posted by paulpeterson on August 26, 2006 at 09:44:06 PT
RFRA Big Test Case
This is indeed a significant case. In Federal Court in NM. Same place the UDV case was decided. Good to see they got a good anthropologist to testify, which means, in my opinion, that the government probably does not have good evidence of a concerted "distribution" scheme, since distribution is probably not well-supported as having religious purposes, per the case law on the RFRA.Two cases already have supported Rastafarian rights for possession (California, 1996) and (Guam, 2002?). But not the right to sell or to import seeds, respectively.Interestingly enough, in the UDV case, the Ayahuasca (sp?) usage was contrasted with cannabis, as not as problematic, etc. This case does involve quite large quantities, but also a sincere practice, in that the adherents did file documentation and disclosure confirmations, which would certainly seem to pass muster with "cooperation" with law enforcement guidelines set forth in the UDV case.Of course, since the UDV case was filed in 2002, there has been a whole wealth of further documentation of the safety of cannabis, neuroprotection confirmed, meaning that the "compelling state interest" in restriction will tend to be skewed further against the government, as opposed to where the "equipoise" would have been drawn 4 years ago.That GAO report will further help, in that govenment claims are becomming harder to swallow all over the turf, eh?And that Zoastrian (sp?) information about haoma/soma and the whole anthropology argument about religion being more akin to "experientialism" vs. doctrine dichotomy is wonderful.I just hope those folks don't have a pattern of distribution with phone tapes and what-not showing commercial remuneration for delivery and such for the govenment "revenuers" to clamp down on, which could sour the entire pattern of more rational acceptance for sincere religious practices that has been set in motion by the UDV folks.People, practices and groups all over the globe are watching this major case develop right now and we all pray for a successful confirmation that cannabis does truly bring our faithful closer to each other and to our sense of the divine, however we each have the right to "define" such divinity as either a distinct spirit, spirit "group", essence of existence and connectivity, or sense of divinity that indwells within each one of us, confirmant or prohibitionist as well.And remember, that when Richard Nixon passed away, Neal Young, I believe, penned a quite good song himself to wit:"Even Richard Nixon has a soul".Yes, even those livid goons that wear John Blue Shirts and run packing with guns ablazing, kicking down doors and forcing scared children to "lie down or your dead", have souls, in some form, probably less able to be reached by any medium, than for others, of course, but still there, in some form, eh?Let us hope that this case quickens the pace for us to hope for all of our people to be allowed out of Egypt, and back to Canna. Hope & Love Abound. Paul Peterson
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Comment #21 posted by Genthirdday on August 26, 2006 at 08:41:28 PT
Puritan mentality
The New Agreement=" I will never leave you or forsake you."
The Rev M has the puritan mindset and has not dealt with human pain as his Master would command. The puritan has a problem with Euphoria....a feeling of great happiness or well being from the Greek euphoros...healthy.
The drug czars or caesars have political/financial motives but also are puritans in the sense that they hate the euphoria aspect of illegal medications.
Many years ago I visited a very old man who had a very large book of herbal remedies. These books I assume have been destroyed by government but I have not searched big libraries. They are rare. There is no money for Czar if the people self medicate with great success.
Rev M's of this world will not consider that people in physical or emotional pain are not specifically seeking euphoria simply relief from very REAL pain. If people in physical or emotional pain were seeking Rev M's "high" they could take a legal Darvocet which screws the mind and leaves the human still in pain.
There is nothing in creation that is meant to be abused. Someone here says and I use it, "use is NOT abuse."
The Puritan mindset....beware.
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Comment #20 posted by The GCW on August 26, 2006 at 05:28:57 PT
The toil = the prohibition?
Toker00 and whig, You expose some fresh and interesting concepts, here.0-0Some people will say that the curse placed on man on page 3 prohibits Man from eating the tree of knowledge or cannabis use today, however that may not be accurate.Gen 1:17 indicates We can still eat of the forbidden tree but We will eat in toil...""17Then to Adam He (God) said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it';
Cursed is the ground because of you;
In toil you will eat of it
All the days of your life."" Since cannabis grows without much physical work (toil) perhaps the toil is government prohibition, which is Anti-Christian. Cannabis / kaneh bosm prohibition is caused by Anti-Christian activity by those who don't know better; they are stumbling starting on the very 1st page of the Bible, where God clearly tells Us more than once all the green is good.-0-Gen. 9:3 God, reconfirms to Noah, We have access to all the Green...3"Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant." -0-The tree of life is still available. The throne of God and of the lamb is still in it.The curse is often brought up by the type of Christian who supports cannabis prohibition in order to support their wicked way and spin it as good...But the curse has been denounced by God in many places. One place God does that denouncing is on the very last page of the Bible where the Word is:Exerpt from Rev. 22:1-4,2"in the middle of its street On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him;" -0-One more thing I like to share when it is relevant is in Rev. 2:7, written in red:"7'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.' A keyword here is "overcomes" which seems to mean evil; to overcome evil, is to love one another, which is what the Annointed one (The Christ) told Us to do many times in red in John 14-16 & 1st John. He told Us that if We love one another, We have obeyed all the Commandments.He also tells Us in John 14:12, something very interesting:12"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father."""The Green Collar Worker
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Comment #19 posted by Toker00 on August 26, 2006 at 04:45:45 PT
Knowledge Prohibition. The original Prohibition.
BRM. Thanks for that spiritual "link". Wow. Was God the original Prohibitionist? We had one plant in Eden we could "consume", the Tree of Life, and one tree he forbade (prohibited) us from "consuming", the Tree of Knowledge. Yet he knew we would consume from the tree of Knowledge. He is showing us that Prohibition doesn't even work for Him! He knew that if we ate from the tree of Knowledge, which we all do as we are being educated, that we would discover that the knowledge of Man will never equal the wisdom of God, and in order to LIVE,(spiritually) we must seek the Tree of Life, the Tree God DID allow in Eden! The Tree of Renown he is Raising Up to Heal the Nations! Then read this passage: "And to EVERY beast of the earth, and to EVERY fowl of the air, and to EVERY thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is LIFE, I have given EVERY green herb for meat: and it was so, And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good." There was NO prohibition of ANY (now listen closely) GREEN HERB! We were not prohibited from using His herbs, we WERE prohibited from The Knowledge Of Good and Evil. He did not want us to suffer the way we have. We could have just said, ok God, we will never eat from the Tree of Knowledge. But he KNEW we would. That was the chance he had to take in giving us Free Will. We could eat from the Tree of Life worry free, for it connects us with God's wisdom, and we have no need for unnecessary knowledge. Isn't that what we say about Cannabis? It makes us feel closer to God? Yet the more we eat from the Tree of Knowledge, the more we learn about Evil. Men could not accomplish this control over mankind without knowledge. But there would be no need for this "governing" if we chose to eat from the Tree of Life. There's more to this plant than meets the "eye".Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #18 posted by whig on August 25, 2006 at 22:48:11 PT
GCW
Originally Adam and Eve were in constant communion with God, and they were to eat of all the trees in the garden except for one. That forbidden tree was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. There was another tree which was the Tree of Life, which is what they were banished from when they ate from the forbidden tree. When they ceased to have access to the Tree of Life they lost communion with God.That is the Fall of Man.What we are doing is returning to the Garden.
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Comment #17 posted by The GCW on August 25, 2006 at 20:49:17 PT
BRM!
BRM,ALSO, on the very 1st page of the Bible:Gen. 11 & 12,11Then God said, "Let the earth sprout (S)vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them"; and it was so. 12The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. -0-Yes, the very 1st page; You are quoting. Helps put it in perspective, doesn't it?Now see if You see this...The people who support caging humans for using what God says is good on the 1st page are stumbling by time they get to page 3, where God helps Us see that killing is wrong.The twists are in motion.Those who support killing know they may have better results if they cause stumbling starting before killing...Also:Imagine this concept.It may be thought that then cannabis persecution, prohibition and extermination is the ORIGINAL SIN.Now, realize a portion of the support for the persecution etc. is derived from (failed) clergy, a cult that is described as the Christian right or conservative right that can more accurately be described as DISOBEDIENT CHRISTIANS.And DISOBEDIENT Christians are the same clan that supports much of the killing that exists; war, death penalty etc.0-0BRM, What else do You see?I haven't seen Your name here, but I have not seen them all,,,But I think I can speak for everyone here when I say, We love You.The Green Collar Worker.
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Comment #16 posted by BRM on August 25, 2006 at 17:26:54 PT:
God loves us all and what He created.
Genesis 1:29-31, And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the witch is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so,
And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Don't you all get it? Its not just a war on marijuana, its a war aginst God and everything that He created! One day all the so called Christians of this great land will wake up and see this. Let us all pray to God it will not be to late.
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Comment #15 posted by global_warming on August 25, 2006 at 15:20:49 PT
re: comment 5
Who has the right to religious understanding, who can tell you how to find God and ultimately make peace with the creator of this universe.The small minds will continue to examine in the finest detail the best way to crack an egg, yet small minds only can see the smaller picture for they have not a clue to the deeper mysteries of this universe.
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Comment #14 posted by FoM on August 25, 2006 at 13:39:46 PT
A New Song: Crosby & Nash: Live On
http://www.neilyoung.com/lwwtoday/songslinks/songlink_017.html
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Comment #13 posted by FoM on August 25, 2006 at 12:08:13 PT
nuevo mexican
About the video all I can say is oh my and someone put a lot of time into it.
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Comment #12 posted by whig on August 25, 2006 at 12:05:16 PT
nuevo mexican
We have Free Speech TV here in Berkeley.Amy Goodman, and lots of things. It's not very flashy or entertaining to watch, of course, because it's serious news. I'm not sure what the market for that is in most of the country right now.Keith Olbermann on MSNBC had a more light approach, but we don't get MSNBC now. (Free Speech TV is on the channel MSNBC is supposed to be according to the channel guide.)
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Comment #11 posted by whig on August 25, 2006 at 12:02:01 PT
lombar
For my own path, I can definitely say that in the absence of cannabis it is possible to discern God but much more vaguely. I find my own thoughts and words are brought into the clarity which is needed to express them well when I have taken cannabis. It may be that I am endogenously deficient in cannabinoids. It may be that this is the main problem in our public consciousness that has led people so far from the paths of love and kindness.I do not believe that cannabis is necessary for every single person, nor would I ever support compulsion to take it. But I do believe it is a spiritual necessity for our whole people to have it available and for those in need to partake.
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Comment #10 posted by nuevo mexican on August 25, 2006 at 11:44:27 PT
bush sings U-2! Sunday, bloody Sunday!
Thanks Lombar! Excellent post! All!These videos should be on CNN, MSNBC and FOX 24/7!Who out there wants to start a Telivision Station that is the Anti-bush, anti-Fox remedy to all lies all the time!Can we get Air America on TV?Where are the wealthy Americans who could fund such a thing, and why are we stuck with only Democracy Now, and other Gatekeepers of the left? Why is C-News the closest thing to getting your truth without a TV or Radio?This will make you smile! In a weird way, you might feel sorry for bush, though we all claim our choices, don't we!http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6805063692754011230
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Comment #9 posted by lombar on August 25, 2006 at 11:40:16 PT
Whig
It is about craving. We need food but do we 'crave' food? There is a difference, the craving is insatiable. The end product to uncontrolled craving for food is overconsumption. Our needs may be met by a minimum amount of food. Clingling to the need arises from craving the object which arises from the positive feeling that arises from sense contact with said object.If someone needs it to live then it becomes food or medicine. If it eases suffering I am all for it but as I said, I am really a purist *but only for myself* and I am not perfect. So no belief of mine needs to be elevated to the level of a law. I am pretty sure that when Jesus went off to fast for 40 days, it does not mention him taking a bag of cannabis."Cannabis is a spiritual food without which we may lose our ability to sense the divine as clearly or well at all."Well all my most powerful mystical experiences happened during times of sobriety. I find that cannabis blocks access to meditiative concentration because of the clinging/craving, when I regularly use cannabis, I do not remember my dreams at night. I have not experienced an OBE for a long time but I used too..Is it your contention that people need cannabis to contact the divine? I might have to go support Pastor Marsh ...;) I strongly disagree, the heart/soul is never not in contact with 'god', it is our minds that often are not in contact with our 'hearts and souls'. Perhaps cannabis has the effect of relaxing ego but I know a few chronics that have egos the size of the planet ... cannabis cannot affect our souls for good or ill, only our materiality. Although I think that a shift in mental states via enthneogens can induce a more spiritual mental state ins some people I will not agree it is a pre-requisite... at this time.
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Comment #8 posted by nuevo mexican on August 25, 2006 at 11:26:44 PT
Off topic, you've gotta see this!
Humor will save us all!The bush pilot!http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3934788900154749704&pr=goog-sl
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Comment #7 posted by lombar on August 25, 2006 at 11:25:04 PT
extreme asceticism is not the way
Hey, I don't care how many seeds you eat, it just isn't anything like a volcano bag of prime vapor! ;) The buddha tried extreme aceticism, like 1 hemp seed per day, physical discomfort, extreme deprivation, before realizing that was not the way to enlightenment. I read several accounts which were much in common. The Buddha was practicing with other 'ascetics' when he stopped, they figured he just could not cut it. He left, sat under a tree, became enlightened. Then he sought out the 6 he had left a short time before who then became his first followers.The funny thing is that we take more knowledge for granted after a mere high-school education than the most studied scholars of antiquity and STILL we cannot agree and we STILL hang on these ancient teachers. I guess because we STILL have not figured it out(or we have but it is not mainstream consciousness).The world and its associated phenomena are fixed but our ideologies are wildy varying. In my life I have come to one conclusion regarding religions. They are all true in their way. They are all someones attempt at describing phenomena they experienced *in terms of their own mental conditioning*. (although buddhism is a path to realization, to overcome all the gross manifestations of the grasping mind, attain concentration to really analyzed reality)Jesus was taught hebrew faith, his messages were couched in terms the people could understand, in terms he had come to understand.The Buddha was more analytical but he at least states that 'all dharmas are impermanent' at some point as well. I like buddhism because it is more open to new ideas, if something 'real' conflicts with their 'dharma', the dharma is expanded to include the new information.The Prophet Mohammed, if you can slog thru any of the Qur'an( I have listened to readings and interpretations) emphasizes the mercy of Allah, Islam means 'surrender to God'.The Bhagavad Gita was fascinating. Found many congruencies, reality interpreted by someone(s) who wrote the Upanishads and the various other Hindu literature. I kind of lost interest when I discovered that the caste system still lives in modern India, at least for the outcastes.Overall I find that Buddhism is very ascetic, Islam is too controlling, I don't have enough information on Judaism or Hinduism (other than it was unsatisfactory to the Buddha) too say, Christianity affords the most freedom.They all came from the hearts of living people, are embraced in the hearts of living people who all face the same existential questions. Who am I? What am I? Why am I here? Is this all there is? What happens when I die? Is there any point to life? And all the faiths were from people who believed they had the answer, whose compassion drove them to understand and sacrifice, and whose love drove them to try and make others understand... and you know how tales grow in the telling.What do I know... no alphabet beside my name, no riches or fame.
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Comment #6 posted by whig on August 25, 2006 at 11:02:11 PT
lombar
"While I believe that people can practice faith as they see fit, I am really a purist at heart, despite my use of cannabis. I believe that *all* the worldly things must ultimately be renounced, put down, let go, that our attachment to these things is the cause of our suffering."While we are worldly, we depend upon worldly things. We need worldly water to drink, wordly air to breathe, and worldly food to eat. Without these things we will cease to be worldly before our time.Cannabis is a spiritual food without which we may lose our ability to sense the divine as clearly or well at all.I believe cannabis is vital and important to existence on this earth, and when we leave this world to rejoin God we will have no need of it, as we have no need of a telephone to speak to someone in the same room. There is no contradiction in holding to these material things in the meantime.
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Comment #5 posted by Max Flowers on August 25, 2006 at 10:56:09 PT
This is going to be a big one
This looks like the test case that we all knew would come. This one involves the Religious Freedom Restoration Act as well as the precedent (if any) set by the UDV/ayahuasca case.Note this part:
Deborah Pruitt, a cultural anthropologist and college professor in Oakland, Calif., who conducted doctoral work with Rastafarians in Jamaica, testified as the defense expert. She distinguished "experiential" religions from faith-based religions that rely on institutionalized doctrine passed down through specialists.I agree fully and this has been my point many times in these discussions, that for true freedom of religion to exist, it cannot be granted only to some "sanctioned" religions---it has to be whatever religion the person believes in, even if to most it's foreign, unfamiliar, odd, plant-based or whatever. Otherwise, it's not religious freedom at all, and the government is no better than the Spanish Inquisitors if they jail people for having religious practice and belief that they find threatening or foreign. I believe that full religious freedom was the greater intent that the framers had, even if they could not visualize at that time the various other religions that would emerge. They specified freedom of religion, and that's what we are supposed to have.The government does NOT have a true compelling interest in stopping the limited number of church members in this church from ingesting their sacrament, no matter how they try to spin it. These people are not hurting anyone else, they worship in private, and there is (supposed to be, anyway) a huge presumption of religious liberty working in their favor. If they are convicted, it will be further proof that this federal government feels no need whatsoever to adhere to Constitutional law and boundaries.
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Comment #4 posted by konagold on August 25, 2006 at 10:55:54 PT:
Chirst-consciousness!
Alohathe word Christ is irrevocably linked to CannabisEx 30-23 in Hebrew list Kaneh Bos as a principal spice ingredient of the Holy Anointing Oil of Israelthe word Christ means ' The Anointed'see "The Holy Herb" http://thereligionofjesuschurch.orgAlohaRev. Dennis Shields
http://thereligionofjesuschurch.org
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Comment #3 posted by nuevo mexican on August 25, 2006 at 10:26:12 PT
Go New Mexico! Cannabis is Chirst-consciousness!
Buddha especially liked Cannabis, he lived on one hemp seed a day for over 6 years, Jesus used it to annoit the sick, heal the poor, the blind, you name it, Cannabis can do it!The funny thing is, as humans on this Earth, our higher selves know ALL, especially when we get our programmed thinking, the Matrix, out of the way. Through meditation, or communing with spirit, through the gift of Cannabis!We are all psychic, intuitive, gifted, spectacular beings of light, tuned to a variety of frequencies, a bandwidth so to speak, and our bodies KNOW Cannabis is good for us, whether we even consciously know the benefits or not, we still benefit!This ones for FOM, and will make your day!John Lennons' Imagine meets Lou Reeds Take a Walk on the Wild Side, starring G.W.booosh!Check it out!http://xnerg.blogspot.com/2006/08/and-condi-goes-do-do-do-do-do-de-do-do.htmlHave a great Weekend, and keep your eyes on Mexico, the birthplace of a New Authentic Democracy, or a true Peoples' Democracy that has been awakened, while bushes stooge claims victory, as Millions ready to make Mexico the Real Democracy America claims to be, and as everyone knows, is NOT anymore, since Voting machines, bush and Diebold ended it.(2 Stolen Elections and bush is still in office, an embarassment for all Americans, though the benefits are huge, with the world realizing America is a stuffed shirt, nothing but words, and military might gone amok)! A Killing Machine, right out of Arnolds Terminator Dream World! I knew that movie was a blue-print for these poorly disguised reptilians. Check out this great video!http://xnerg.blogspot.com/2006/08/and-condi-goes-do-do-do-do-do-de-do-do.htmlPluto is still Pluto, Astrologers have always considered it a 'dwarf planet', a rose is still a rose by any other name, and Pluto will always be considered in Astrology the most powerful counter-balance to the Sun, and keeps the planets in their specific orbits, like a traffic cop in Times Square!Thats' Pluto!, The planet that bring down the boooshes on its very own! Downgrading its' status as a planet only boosts' its' effect! As everyone will see as it passed the 26th/27th degree of Sagittarius, the 'moment of truth' degree, where all truth is revealed, and contrasted with the big lie, the World will be a different place by 2008, if it hasn't already become a different place since 2000!booosch is like a sling-shot, where we appear to be going backwards, though we are about to get slung forward very fast, once the sling is released, and that is happening now, only to accelerate in the coming months!Heads up!
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Comment #2 posted by konagold on August 25, 2006 at 10:21:56 PT:
best wishes and good luck
Alohaif they get past the legitimate and sincere portion of this case the burden on the government is significantgiven that the govt gives 300 joints a month to selected patients, such destroys the compelling state interest claimhaving been in their shoes my prayers are with themAlohaRev. Dennis Shields
http://thereligionofjesuschurch.org
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Comment #1 posted by lombar on August 25, 2006 at 10:13:05 PT
Ot -kinda
I was thinking this morning about something I read in the 'Path of Purification' but recall is not 100% so I just searched the terms in Google and I came across a site the basically mapped out all the major ideas of Buddhism in a clear an concise manner. I was thinking what they call the 'four divine abidings'(loving-kindness,compassion,smypathetic joy, and equinamity) and their 'near and far enemies' but I could not (well I though I could not I was close ;)) remember what the near and far enemies of compassion were. Four Brahma-viharas (Highest Attitudes/Emotions)Heavenly or sublime abodes (best home). Near enemy is a quality that can masquerade as the original, but is not the original. Far enemy is the opposite quality.{excerpt}
1. Lovingkindness, good-will (metta): Near enemy - attachment; far enemy - hatred
2. Compassion (karuna): Near enemy - pity; far enemy - cruelty
3. Sympathetic joy, Appreciation (mudita), joy at the good fortune of others: Near enemy - comparison,hypocrisy, insincerity, joy for others but tinged with identification (my team, my child); far enemy - envy
4. Equanimity (upekkha): Near enemy - indifference; far enemy - anxiety, greed
{snip}If you think about this, it will make sense to those who have actually experienced these mental states while being aware of the 'feelings'(for lack of a better word). Personally, I believe that cannabis and the desire for cannabis come under the sense-desire 'hinderence' to meditation. While I believe that people can practice faith as they see fit, I am really a purist at heart, despite my use of cannabis. I believe that *all* the worldly things must ultimately be renounced, put down, let go, that our attachment to these things is the cause of our suffering. Whether you believe in an after-life or not, this world of phenomena will be gone. Attachment to worldly things will only be cause of greater suffering when we do have to shuffle off this mortal coil. Really, we just all want to be happy ultimately, and if a little cannabis helps that, why is that bad? Contentment, fewness of wishes, lack of any over-riding needs or desires is being a mind at peace. The driving greed, the grasping to materiality is what is killing our planet, destroying the souls of so many in hell fire we create.
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