cannabisnews.com: Pot Advocacy Campaign Promises a Safer Denver





Pot Advocacy Campaign Promises a Safer Denver
Posted by CN Staff on October 30, 2005 at 22:32:09 PT
By Valerie Richardson, The Washington Times 
Source: Washington Times
Denver -- An initiative on tomorrow's ballot would decriminalize possession of small amounts of marijuana in the Mile High City, but you wouldn't know it from the ad campaign.   The pro-pot campaign, Safer Alternatives for Enjoyable Recreation (SAFER), has blanketed the city with red-and-white signs urging Denverites to vote yes on Initiative 100, saying the measure will "Make Denver Safer."
Nowhere do the signs say anything about marijuana. The point, says SAFER Executive Director Mason Tvert, is that boozers would mellow out and become less violent if they could smoke pot instead.   "It's our position that if people choose to use marijuana instead of alcohol, we would not have these problems," said Mr. Tvert, 23, who has run successful nonbinding pro-pot campaigns at two Colorado universities.   That argument has outraged everyone from domestic-violence counselors to tough-on-crime advocates, who say the SAFER campaign is deliberately deceiving the public with tortured reasoning.   "It's blatantly misleading," said Denver City Council member Charlie Brown. "They ought to be ashamed of themselves. I was shocked and surprised that they would use this tactic without ever mentioning the word 'marijuana.'?"   Mr. Brown pulled dozens of the campaign's signs from Observatory Park while calling on the SAFER campaign to cease its ads. Colorado law prohibits the display of campaign materials at public parks.   "The problem is there's no organized opposition, and you see these signs everywhere," said Mr. Brown.   SAFER activists are unbowed, insisting that crime, domestic abuse and drunken driving would plummet if marijuana were legalized. A prominent billboard near Invesco Field at Mile High, home of the Denver Broncos, reads: "Alcohol use makes domestic violence 8 times more likely ... Marijuana does not."   At a rally last week, SAFER activists called Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper a "drug dealer" because he owns the Wynkoop Brewery Co.   "What's the difference between Mayor Hickenlooper and a marijuana dealer? The mayor has made his fortune selling a more harmful drug: Alcohol," said an enormous banner at the rally.   The proposal would make it legal for adults to possess as much as 1 ounce of marijuana, similar to laws in Seattle, Oakland, Calif., and a few college towns.   Despite widespread condemnation by lawmakers and editorial pages, the outcome of Initiative 100 is uncertain. A poll commissioned by SAFER found 32 percent of voters favored the measure, with 36 percent opposed.   Even if the measure passes, lawmakers say, Denver police would charge violators under state law, which carries a fine of up to $100 for marijuana possession, plus a $100 drug-offender surcharge.   The biggest impact could come on Denver's reputation, critics say.   "The real concern is about the ramifications for Denver for attracting business if this thing happens," Mr. Brown said. "Next thing you know, we'll have drug dealers setting up shop in City Park." Source: Washington Times (DC)Author:  Valerie Richardson, The Washington Times Published: October 31, 2005 Copyright: 2005 News World Communications, Inc. Website: http://www.washtimes.com/Contact: letters washingtontimes.comRelated Articles & Web Sites:Safer Choicehttp://www.saferchoice.org/Change The Climatehttp://www.changetheclimate.org/ Pot Backers Protest Hickhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21243.shtmlPot Backers Can't Stoke Hickenlooperhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21239.shtmlNo for Denver Pot Initiativehttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21226.shtml
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Comment #71 posted by FoM on November 01, 2005 at 18:40:36 PT
Telluride and Denver Election Results
So far no totals but they should start soon.http://extras.denverpost.com/2005election/potco.htmlhttp://news.rockymountainnews.com/election/display.cfm?oper=searchissues&id=9881
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Comment #70 posted by FoM on November 01, 2005 at 17:08:52 PT
Toker00 
Change comes in different ways. Activism is seeing a problem that needs to be fixed and doing our best to fix it. Another thing is even though we are a cannabis centered group we see important areas that others don't see as clearly as one individual does. Like I focus on CNews and try very hard to keep us in harmony because then we won't be discouraged and then we can energetically do what we need to do. I hope this makes sense. Harmony in the movement would help so much but I have no idea how to bring everyone together because money blinds people in these issues as any issue.
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Comment #69 posted by MikeC on November 01, 2005 at 17:02:39 PT
Colorado
I have a good feeling about Telluride...unsure about Denver.Come on people of Colorado....do the right thing!
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Comment #68 posted by FoM on November 01, 2005 at 16:54:29 PT
Thanks Taylor
Then the polls close at 9 pm et. Whoever finds the results please post them as soon as you know. 
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Comment #67 posted by global_warming on November 01, 2005 at 16:43:17 PT
Brother Taylor
Welcome,The fire is warm,Come,Get closer to the fire,gw
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Comment #66 posted by Taylor121 on November 01, 2005 at 16:32:53 PT
FoM
It's mountain
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Comment #65 posted by FoM on November 01, 2005 at 16:31:12 PT
Taylor
The polls close at 7 but what time zone is Colorado? I don't know if it's mountain or pacific.
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Comment #64 posted by Taylor121 on November 01, 2005 at 16:16:33 PT
If anyone else knows...
where I can find a page that would display the results of the Telluride initiative, let me know here. Thanks again.
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Comment #63 posted by global_warming on November 01, 2005 at 16:15:03 PT
In One Blink
UnderstandingCan fill yougw
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Comment #62 posted by global_warming on November 01, 2005 at 16:07:32 PT
Go Denver
grasp THIS moment
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Comment #61 posted by Taylor121 on November 01, 2005 at 16:05:47 PT
Hey global
I couldn't find a link for the results to the Telluride intiative, just the ballot itself. If anyone knows where the results for that election will be posted, just post it on up here.
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Comment #60 posted by global_warming on November 01, 2005 at 16:02:17 PT
Go Denver
Grasp this moment
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Comment #59 posted by Taylor121 on November 01, 2005 at 15:56:07 PT
The Results will come in at this site from Denver
http://www.denvergov.org/election/results.aspGo down to Initiated Question 100 Marijuana Law We should start getting a count some time this evening I'm assuming.
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Comment #58 posted by global_warming on November 01, 2005 at 15:46:26 PT
"We" are the world, ..thank you
Karl was right when he made his famous quote concerning religion being the opiate of the masses. Mostly because we don't read the books themselves. If we did, Christianity might be practised a bit differently. After all, our legal system is based upon the ten commandments, yet how did Jesus treat the adultress? Intelligent reading of the bible would destroy the power base of the churches. (37)Before civilization came to Europe, there was just wave after wave of violent warfare between pagan tribes whose foreign policy was to just slaughter everyone in the competing tribe and take their territory over. (16)I think by and large we shouldn't blame any religion necessarily, or anything that was secular, rather let's put the true cause to blame, the people of those times and how they applied their beliefs. I don't see anything in christianity saying to go kill people, nor do I see that in most of the pagan religions, nor do I see that in the basic belief of not believing in God. (35)It boils down to
I wan't what you have. All of it. If I can take it from you in the name of God, Thor, or the state it doesn't matter. Power. The taking and the keeping of it. (36)On Religions
Some very good points made in all of these.. People will take what they want, but organized religions give people a moral justification for such actions. They are political machines by nature. .."In our society, religion has forced it's way into the very pinnacle of our political structure. And, it has proved itself inadequate to dealing with our society. ".."I don't discount higher powers, though I dare any human to prove their particular notion is correct. We are only humans. And religions are a way to play upon the fears of it's members. When they use their political power to play upon these fears, they have proven to be far more destructive than any drug scourge, epedimic, or natural catastrophe that we've ever endured in the past."Hopefully, cannabis can help to free us from these superstitious political machines and encourage us to seek our own spiritual paths to discover our own interpretation of what is unknowable to the human mind. Maybe then, we will break free from this vicious circle of violence. . Jim (37)The universe is mostly empty.
Although there may be many faiths, there are good amongst them all and good people who subscribe to no particular beliefs. .."There may be many religions but there is only one humanity. The things that are commonly valued as 'good' are kindness, compassion, patience, virtue, and tolerance. These things exist within *us* (humans) if at all in this world, not books, shrines, or buildings.I would think one more wise to live as if there was an accounting for this life and be wrong rather than think there is none and be wrong." (38)"I believe we are all spirits of conscience, who are bound by our creator/designer/deity to experience all human/worldly scenarios in the only possible vehicle provided, the human body. When our reign is over, our spirits (the complete sum of all our human experiences) will be collected into the conscience of the designer of the Universe, and experienced by him/her/it, and we will experience the conscience of the creator/designer/deity. I think there will be spirits there from all over the universe, each creature, specie, plant, even spirits of the elements of creation. When the universe slows and all heat is exhausted, all movement ceased, then the creator/designer/deity will be ALL KNOWING and there will be no reason to continue." (41)What is Real?The Church of Reality is a religion based on the practice of Realism, believing in everything that is real. Our motto is, "If it's real, we believe in it." Since no one knows all of reality,..(46)Two sides of religion
That's a kool fantasy there, Jim.When Christians find people they don't like, they imprison, persecute, prosecute, demonize, oppress, kill or otherwise separate themselves from them. Most of these are the very people Christ associated WITH and tried to uplift. Followers of Christ? I think not. Now I'm not talking about the OBEDIENT Christians, as globalwarming so often points out. I mean those in power who claim to be Christians just to further their REAL agenda. The ones who shout CHRIST,..(53)
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Comment #57 posted by Toker00 on November 01, 2005 at 15:14:35 PT
FoM
I know, FoM. I am sorry too. But since this issue has been aired, there may be hope for all of us to realize no one group can end this madness. It's gonna take us ALL. I'm extremely protective of something I believe in, and I tend to over react sometimes. I have paid for that through-out my life, and I have always found it worth it. Next mission, consolidate all cannabis/hemp friendly groups into one movement. Any suggestions? How about: The Cannabis Alliance to end Prohibition, or CAP. Join forces to end the Reefer madness once, and for all! Put a CAP on it! Ok. Well, at least I tried!Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW! 
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Comment #56 posted by FoM on November 01, 2005 at 10:52:33 PT
Related Article from TheDenverChannel.com
How High Will Mile High Be? Denver Votes On Pot IssueTelluride Also Puts Marijuana Issue On Ballot November 1, 2005DENVER -- How high does the Mile High City really want to be?That's the question Denver voters will answer Tuesday, when they decide whether to make it legal for adults older than 21 to possess up to an ounce of marijuana.Question 200 in Telluride also asks voters to set possession of small amounts of marijuana by adults as the lowest enforcement priority for the Telluride Marshal's Department.Supporters in Denver launched a "Make Denver Safer" campaign that contended the change would help curb domestic violence, which angered local officials. One billboard depicted a battered woman and a man standing behind her, presumably her abuser, with the message, "Reduce family and community violence in Denver. Vote Yes on I-100."I-100's sponsor is a group called Safer Alternative For Enjoyable Recreation, but it uses SAFER in its advertising and some think the acronym was chosen to confuse voters about the real issue of I-100 -- legalized marijuana.Even if the initiative passes, it won't make much difference. The city attorney's office has said Denver police would simply file marijuana possession charges under state law, which carries up to a $100 fine and a mandatory $100 drug-offender surcharge.Copyright 2005 by TheDenverChannel.comhttp://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/5223316/detail.html
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Comment #55 posted by FoM on November 01, 2005 at 10:00:07 PT
Toker00
I'm sorry there are such divisions in the different groups. It sure sounds like the way politics work and I really dislike politics as you all know. That's why I am not involved with any group. I don't like confusion and problems.
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Comment #54 posted by Had Enough on November 01, 2005 at 09:59:04 PT
They Know Not What They Do
When Christians find people they don't like, they imprison, persecute, prosecute, demonize, oppress, kill or otherwise separate themselves from them.It's not the Christians; it’s the people who lead them. They believe with blinded faith every word they are told and to carry out every deed dictated to them by their leaders. This stuff ends up being Self-Perpetuated for new and upcoming followers and leaders.Forgive them for they know not what they do. Seems to me I've heard that somewhere before.
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Comment #53 posted by Toker00 on November 01, 2005 at 09:34:46 PT
Two sides of religion
That's a kool fantasy there, Jim.When Christians find people they don't like, they imprison, persecute, prosecute, demonize, oppress, kill or otherwise separate themselves from them. Most of these are the very people Christ associated WITH and tried to uplift. Followers of Christ? I think not. Now I'm not talking about the OBEDIENT Christians, as globalwarming so often points out. I mean those in power who claim to be Christians just to further their REAL agenda. The ones who shout CHRIST, then practice class-ism, race-ism, and fasc-ism. You know who I mean.FoM, I heard from dfwnorml. I won't post all of it here, but suffice it to say Norml will no longer support ASA because of their exclusionary tactics. Besides, ASA asked dfwnorml for support, not the other way around. Norml stands by their three goals. Legalization for medical, recreational, and industrial use. It IS good to be NORML! Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!  
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Comment #52 posted by FoM on November 01, 2005 at 07:45:11 PT
When God Made Me
On this lyrics page the last song covers about how I feel about religion.http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/pwlyrics.htm
Neil Young: Prairie Wind
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Comment #51 posted by Had Enough on November 01, 2005 at 07:39:38 PT
"It's the Bad Guys"
It's not the system, It's not the religions, It’s the people with saddened intents that manipulate the masses handily using religious groups or morality laws for their agenda. It's the "Bad Guys". 80% of people are followers - 20% are leaders.
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Comment #50 posted by siege on November 01, 2005 at 07:31:10 PT
loudest
How is it said the wheel that screams the loudest get's the first attention
Some right/left wing nut said we can't have that, so all the butt holes on the hill jump on the band wagon, and give the people really bad Laws.
So as they say that they can protect the children from what they Don't Understand, Most children of this day and age Understand more then the hypocrites well every foresee. as a species the ones that had cannabis prior to 1937, they had a different out look on live and could do for them self and was not being dependent on the government to tell them what to DO... Then the government seen fit to mess over the citizens with an ( illegal vote ) so the sentors could have an appointment for live like the Supreme Court, take it away from them, and they do it for a year and see what happens, this artificial government will fall apart, when it dose not have all the props.
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Comment #49 posted by GreenJoy on November 01, 2005 at 07:25:29 PT
In this country
 Consider the Native Americans. They certainly did war amongst themselves. The Sioux were powerful and to be feared. 
How on earth does that compare to the onward march of Christian soldiers. Take a look around. Its easy to see that bringing them to Jesus was a complete catstrophe for them in virtually every regard. But that's right, I forget...they were heathen savages.
 
 And yes, my tongue is poking thru my cheek. GJ 
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Comment #48 posted by Had Enough on November 01, 2005 at 06:51:07 PT
Comment #16
Amen.
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Comment #47 posted by Jim Lunsford on November 01, 2005 at 05:57:17 PT
Oops!
I didn't really mean to start this controversy, religion and politics are tough subjects. Not that I am clear about the difference anyway. I also noticed that I may have sounded arrogant on the comment with a bunch of points. Sorry about that. Can't help it, I am a bit arrogant sometimes. Toker, I often feel as if we are all just a comedy channel for God. Each and everyone of us a different channel, lived at the same time, in a sort of experiential television show. But, it's just a fantasy for me. One thing I do believe though. We are all like children, and we are often spoiled in our actions as individuals and as a species. Perhaps this Cannabis issue will help us to "grow up" as a species. It would be nice. If not, then we can continue to amuse this diety. One question remains unanswered though. Why do we make laws prohibiting certain businessses, individuals, from being near churches? I can see not having a strip club near a school (though I would have had a handy place to hang out while skipping in those days), but why have a law accomodating a moral stance of a religion? Shouldn't "Christians" want those who are "unsaved" to be held closer to their heart? Much like Jesus went to the sinners. I guess you can just put the practise of modern christianity at a 180 and you will have most of my belief. Just a thought.Rev Jim LunsfordFirst Cannabist ChurchFreedom: If your mind is free, the rest doesn't matter
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Comment #46 posted by AOLBites on October 31, 2005 at 23:48:16 PT
What is Real?
http://www.churchofreality.org/wisdom/The Church of Reality is a religion based on the practice of Realism, believing in everything that is real. Our motto is, "If it's real, we believe in it." Since no one knows all of reality, the Church of Reality is about the pursuit of reality the way it really is. We commit to being intellectually honest with ourselves and with others so that we can cut through the mythology. We want to know about the way things really are in the real world....
Does God Exist?
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Comment #45 posted by ekim on October 31, 2005 at 20:47:10 PT
 --behold
i like the one that has the snake and dont tread on me stoners dont cast the first stones
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Comment #44 posted by FoM on October 31, 2005 at 19:55:24 PT
GreenJoy
Hello to you too. I think that we are looking beyond what we see and do everyday more then we have in a long time. When the world is coming apart at the seams right in front of our eyes people will tend to look a little deeper. 
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Comment #43 posted by GreenJoy on October 31, 2005 at 19:44:46 PT
So many beautiful thoughts.
 My misinthropic tendencies are tempered by your lofty and indeed far reaching words Toker00 and Lombar. Still, I wonder...the mass conciousness does not seem to me to have progressed much. Not lately anyway. Except around here of course. :-)
 
Hello FoM GJ 
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Comment #42 posted by FoM on October 31, 2005 at 18:58:40 PT
Toker00
I think very broad and far reaching like your comment in many ways. I just don't have the ability to put it into words. 
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Comment #41 posted by Toker00 on October 31, 2005 at 18:51:50 PT
Religion vs. spirituality
The major religions are belief systems that are not based on evidence. They are based on the beliefs of a particular people with an honest fear of the unknown thrown in as a naturally occurring control factor. It's easy to bullsh*t you, if you can't prove them wrong. Sorry. No disrespect intended. I believe we are all spirits of conscience, who are bound by our creator/designer/deity to experience all human/worldly scenarios in the only possible vehicle provided, the human body. When our reign is over, our spirits (the complete sum of all our human experiences) will be collected into the conscience of the designer of the Universe, and experienced by him/her/it, and we will experience the conscience of the creator/designer/deity. I think there will be spirits there from all over the universe, each creature, specie, plant, even spirits of the elements of creation. When the universe slows and all heat is exhausted, all movement ceased, then the creator/designer/deity will be ALL KNOWING and there will be no reason to continue. Peaceout. Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!  
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Comment #40 posted by FoM on October 31, 2005 at 18:50:52 PT
Off Topic: The Concert For Bangladesh
I haven't found any news to post today so far but this trailer might of of interest to some here.http://www.theconcertforbangladesh.com/thedvd_trailer.html
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Comment #39 posted by FoM on October 31, 2005 at 17:09:21 PT
lombar 
I've been busy away from the computer today and am trying to catch up. I think along the lines that you do. 
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Comment #38 posted by lombar on October 31, 2005 at 16:58:23 PT
The universe is mostly empty.
Although there may be many faiths, there are good amongst them all and good people who subscribe to no particular beliefs. There may be many religions but there is only one humanity. The things that are commonly valued as 'good' are kindness, compassion, patience, virtue, and tolerance. These things exist within *us* (humans) if at all in this world, not books, shrines, or buildings. I would think one more wise to live as if there was an accounting for this life and be wrong rather than think there is none and be wrong!!! I like to hedge my bets, I believe in God but sometimes I think He must be a Buddhist! ;)
Readings in Theravada Buddhism
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Comment #37 posted by Jim Lunsford on October 31, 2005 at 15:43:22 PT
On Religions
Some very good points made in all of these. People will take what they want, but organized religions give people a moral justification for such actions. They are political machines by nature. We have proven that Karl was right when he made his famous quote concerning religion being the opiate of the masses. Mostly because we don't read the books themselves. If we did, Christianity might be practised a bit differently. After all, our legal system is based upon the ten commandments, yet how did Jesus treat the adultress? Intelligent reading of the bible would destroy the power base of the churches.As for athiesm being a religion, I say it is. Just because it doesn't have a god, doesn't mean it's not a religion. If you go to the CIA world factbook on China, you can see that it's official religion is athiesm. I am not one, but that doesn't mean I'm right either. Who knows about the afterworld? The pope? I do think that churches have played a more destructive role in our society than any other institution. Though they merely reflect the ignorance of their parishiners. I say that churches should be off of any list prohibiting any establishment within a set distance of their location. Surely, their spiritual superiority should offset anything that "satan" could come up with against them. In our society, religion has forced it's way into the very pinnacle of our political structure. And, it has proved itself inadequate to dealing with our society. No suprise there. It is old testament stuff, thoroughly ignoring the inconvenient parts. I don't discount higher powers, though I dare any human to prove their particular notion is correct. We are only humans. And religions are a way to play upon the fears of it's members. When they use their political power to play upon these fears, they have proven to be far more destructive than any drug scourge, epedimic, or natural catastrophe that we've ever endured in the past. Hopefully, cannabis can help to free us from these superstitious political machines and encourage us to seek our own spiritual paths to discover our own interpretation of what is unknowable to the human mind. Maybe then, we will break free from this vicious circle of violence. Or maybe not. Peace, JimRev Jim LunsfordFirst Cannabist ChurchMongols: Still cool in my book
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Comment #36 posted by GreenJoy on October 31, 2005 at 14:16:54 PT
It boils down to
 I wan't what you have. All of it. If I can take it from you in the name of God, Thor, or the state it doesn't matter. Power. The taking and the keeping of it. I wish I could have seen the look on God's face during the Inquisition. From the day that a caveman first picked up a bone and clubbed his rival it has remained the same.  GJ 
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Comment #35 posted by Taylor121 on October 31, 2005 at 13:32:57 PT
One point
I think by and large we shouldn't blame any religion necessarily, or anything that was secular, rather let's put the true cause to blame, the people of those times and how they applied their beliefs. I don't see anything in christianity saying to go kill people, nor do I see that in most of the pagan religions, nor do I see that in the basic belief of not believing in God."4. Atheism is a religion as well"Atheism is not a religion. It is a member of the free thinking philosophical schools of thought on God. It is a belief, not a religion. religion- Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. Atheism would be the negation of religion, the opposite, the lack of a religion. Atheism isn't a religion, it is the absence or disbelief in God, nothing more.
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Comment #34 posted by Jim Lunsford on October 31, 2005 at 12:54:12 PT
E Johnson
Rather than get involved in one of those meaningless intellectual trivia power games about which is the most horrible; I would like to point out a few minor points.1. Pagan institutions are not a recognized part of the American political scene. It is not to say they don't exist. Nor does it mean that there aren't elements of paganism incorporated into christianity. My remark (slightly tongue in cheek) was confined to the leading religion of this country. Leading referring to political power. Political power being more than in the nation.2. Those pagans didn't have the ten commandments. 3. Mongols were cool. Subotei probably killed fewer people than anyone else with his methods. He always left a few alive to spread the word of his "liberation" and that seemed to stop the flow of blood. That and the fact that you did live (sort of) if you didn't resist. Very short statement of a long period of history. 4. Atheism is a religion as well. 5. The point of the entire article wasn't the number killed. A number impossible to ever verify adequately for anyone, as where does religion stop and politics take over? I think never, but that's me.6. The point was the idiocy of the laws about the school and church zones. 7. Who's name were the entire Americas continent natives killed in?8. I just like posting numbers, so I thought I would do this extra one as well. :)Rev Jim LunsfordFirst Cannabist ChurchGod: Different for everyone.
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Comment #33 posted by Hope on October 31, 2005 at 12:41:59 PT
Halloween
It's already been kind of scary here. Terrible storms. Astoundingly dark at noonday. I looked out front and there's strange looking flotsam blown into my yard. I started to go see what it was and a bolt of lightening struck. 
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Comment #32 posted by Hope on October 31, 2005 at 10:54:48 PT
It's true though...about the screamin and prayin
What about those guys in the ski masks and armor that pray then scream? Oh yeah...warriors. Warriors that attack individual homes, businesses, families and individuals...not to mention their pets or anyone who happens to be in the vicinity when said "attack" takes place.
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Comment #31 posted by Hope on October 31, 2005 at 10:47:27 PT
DankHank...I busted out laughing when I read
"Least they're screaming when they attack you. Christians pray before they attack you."
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Comment #30 posted by Hope on October 31, 2005 at 10:44:44 PT
Religious and Pagans and murder.
At least when Atilla the Hun killed you, he just killed you for the plunder or fun or hatred of it. He was a killer and didn't try to work on you to "justify" his murder, probably, the way the religious did. Torture and murder is one thing, but doing it "for your own good" is a bit more creepy. Who killed more is something we probably can't discover. It still goes on. On both sides.
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Comment #29 posted by Dankhank on October 31, 2005 at 10:42:43 PT
murder/death/kill
There is little the same regarding Pagans and Christians killing.The Pagans apparently knew no better.Christians know better, but often don't care, apparently.I vote for the Pagans ...Least they're screaming when they attack you. Christians pray before they attack you. 
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Comment #28 posted by Hope on October 31, 2005 at 10:38:25 PT
You hear something or someone...
and you agree with them...and they arrange that understanding that you both have in an array of perfect prose or poetry, you will absorb their beautiful 'agreeable to your soul' message like something more absorbent than a sponge.At least, I do.
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Comment #27 posted by Hope on October 31, 2005 at 10:35:26 PT
Woody Guthrie
One of my favorite early "hypnotists"...who sang his message right into our souls.
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Comment #26 posted by Hope on October 31, 2005 at 10:33:08 PT
Hypnotized?
Maybe. I think the song phrase that is among those that might have influenced the way I think, was "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow" by Fleetwood Mac.Probably the song that influenced me the most, the earliest, was "Yes, Jesus Loves Me". My most powerful and stunning "first" memories have to be remembering pondering, as a toddler, "Now I lay me down to sleep." That surely has a lot to do with why I'm a "fanatic" and have been since a very young age.It's cool though. That's one aspect of my life I would never want to change. It would be a huge loss to lose it, because, of course, as a fanatic...it's a huge thing to me and it's been sweet. Very sweet.
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Comment #25 posted by VitaminT on October 31, 2005 at 09:58:54 PT
The shoe fits snugly on either foot
"As bloody as some wars between Christians have been, this does not compare in the least bit to what has happened outside the Christian world in the pagan and atheist worlds."So I'm to believe that Christian murder is more righteous than Pagan or Athiest murder and as such doesn't compare.Centuries of "Christian" Crusades were righteous blood baths I guess.Pardon my french but that's bullshit.
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Comment #24 posted by siege on October 31, 2005 at 09:48:10 PT
Hope
oral argument Tuesday Nov. 1, 05On docket: religious freedom vs. drug laws
The Supreme Court takes up a case involving a New Mexico sect that could be important for other minority religionsThis could be why they have not moved in to it...
and could signal the courts thoughts, in advance...
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Comment #23 posted by FoM on October 31, 2005 at 09:38:54 PT
Strawberry Field
That would have been a great name.
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Comment #22 posted by Truth on October 31, 2005 at 09:32:42 PT
this article
This article hit home as years ago when Denver was building the, then new, baseball stadium "Coor's field" I organized a public protest over the naming of our sports stadium after a drug dealer. On several radio stations and newspapers I publicly called Coors a drug dealer and they couldn't do anything back because I was speaking the Truth.I suggested Strawberry Field but they went with coors : )
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Comment #21 posted by FoM on October 31, 2005 at 09:17:03 PT
Truth
That is great! You and I think so much the same.
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Comment #20 posted by Truth on October 31, 2005 at 09:13:07 PT
Chet Fest
Martha and I went to the Chet Fest in Golden Gate Park. We got there early so we had front and center seats, well, standing, I mean. The show was great. Chet would have been proud. I'm sure he would have been there taking pictures if he could.God Bless Chet Helms.On wednesday we meet three of the four daughters of Jerry Garcia and his brother Tiff. Good folks, boy do they glow.
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Comment #19 posted by FoM on October 31, 2005 at 09:11:41 PT
Hope
I am at peace but it is because I gain strength from the past not the present. I'm not alone in thinking that way. Country Joe is a lawyer now and people like Neil Young write and sing songs with a social awareness that is desperately needed in these sterile times. Most of the activists and musicians from back then had a relationship with their God and took that relationship and applied it to changing wrong doing. Politics are only good if they help people that are oppressed in my opinion. The poor, the homeless, the least of these my brethren. 
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Comment #18 posted by Hope on October 31, 2005 at 09:06:37 PT
Siege
"Well they have not called in ''John Pee'' yet have they!"He and the ONDCP seem to be pretty quiet about the Colorado question. Are they? Wonder why that is?
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Comment #17 posted by Hope on October 31, 2005 at 08:51:42 PT
FoM....Noooooooooooo!!!!!!
"The only peace I find is by looking back and remembering the hope we had for a better time many years ago."Don't look back! Keep your eyes on the prize!
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Comment #16 posted by E_Johnson on October 31, 2005 at 08:38:10 PT
I dispute that Jim
I dispute the number 50 million, I also dispute the idea that the people who came before the Church in Europe were peaceful nonviolent folk too. Before civilization came to Europe, there was just wave after wave of violent warfare between pagan tribes whose foreign policy was to just slaughter everyone in the competing tribe and take their territory over.Before the Church came to Europe, nobody even cared about who got killed or why. Your village was only safe as long as your tribe was more ferocious and warlike than the one that wanted to live where you already lived.Nobody in the "we're all victims of Christianity" industry ever bothers to count the number of dead from wave after wave of pagans taking over land held by other pagans.For example, the Scythians were all but wiped out by the Sarmatians in about the second century BC. Isn't anyone mourning that today? And then let's talk about the Huns, and the Mongols. Rolling snorting death machines. How can anyone in their right mind see these people as victims of organized religion? The world is much better now that barbarians like these have been replaced by people who go to church.Whatever sins committed by Christians, they don't compare in any way shape or form to what your delicate modern hide, Jim, would suffer at the hands of the Mongols if they arrived in your village today.And let's not ignore the horrific death toll from atheism -- atheists murdered millions in the USSR and China, through mass incarceration and government-designed famine.I think it's really bad to run around manipulating people into having a completely false idea of the history of mass murder in this world.As bloody as some wars between Christians have been, this does not compare in the least bit to what has happened outside the Christian world in the pagan and atheist worlds.
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Comment #15 posted by FoM on October 31, 2005 at 08:06:48 PT
Jim
What has happened during this administration is pathetic. The only peace I find is by looking back and remembering the hope we had for a better time many years ago. The USA is a sterile, unfeeling, self centered country. We really should never forget that life can be better if we make it happen.
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Comment #14 posted by Jim Lunsford on October 31, 2005 at 08:00:47 PT
Homeland security isn't
Once again, it comes as no suprise. So, exactly what does the government do with our tax dollars if they can't get anything done? Maybe just pass it out to their buddies. Just a thought.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051031/ap_on_go_pr_wh/security_deadlinesRev Jim LunsfordFirst Cannabist ChurchFreedom: Something governments only take away. Ussually with the endorsement of a weak citizenry.
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Comment #13 posted by FoM on October 31, 2005 at 07:56:53 PT
A Music Article from The SFC
SAN FRANCISCO Chet Helms, aka Family Dog, Celebrated Along with his Era Joel Selvin, Chronicle Senior Pop Music CriticMonday, October 31, 2005 They turned back the clock more than an hour Sunday at Speedway Meadows in Golden Gate Park. For a tie-dyed crowd of more than an estimated 20,000, with the air filled with marijuana and incense and free music in the park, it was the '60s once again, as people danced in the sun to current versions of '60s headliners such as Jefferson Airplane, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Canned Heat and others from the era. Peace and love were in the air again. They were laying to rest a tribal elder, Chet Helms, a beloved figure at the heart of the Haight-Ashbury community in the '60s, who died from a stroke in June at age 62. Helms ran the Avalon Ballroom under the name Family Dog, where the real hippies went to dance, and he brought his old pal from Texas, Janis Joplin, out to join the band he was managing, Big Brother and the Holding Company. Many of the groups appearing Sunday at the Family Dog's last Tribal Stomp reunited just for the occasion; the once-awesome power trio Blue Cheer, the original acid-rock dandies, the Charlatans. Guitarist Jerry Miller represented Moby Grape. Country Joe McDonald led everybody in his famous cheer and a rousing version of "Feel Like I'm Fixin' to Die Rag." There were missing men formations. The late Dino Valente's son, Joli Valente in an all-white suit, reprised his father's repertoire from Quicksilver Messenger Service with a band that also included bassist Mario Cipollina, the brother of late Quicksilver guitarist John Cipollina. Only the drummer remained from the original Canned Heat lineup. Paul Kantner of the Jefferson Airplane, long one of the staunchest advocates of free music in the parks, surveyed the scene with the sleek new version of the Jefferson Starship, fresh from headlining the dedication concert the day before at the Jerry Garcia Amphitheater in McLaren Park. "Let's hear it for the marijuana collective up on the hill," he said, pointing out a booth at the rear of the field. Snipped:Complete Article: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/10/31/BAGT3FGDR81.DTL 
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Comment #12 posted by Jim Lunsford on October 31, 2005 at 07:54:22 PT
Off Topic again!
Just off reading the MAP site. Am so sick of those laws that say you can't have this or that so close to schools or churches. Where are all these dam puritans? And why are they listened to? Boy, they are so afraid someone is actually going to enjoy their life, aren't they? Here's an idea; since organized religion has killed more people than any other organization we've ever had (estimated that the early catholic church killed over 50 million other christians in order to maintain their politica superiority), why not pass a law that keeps churches a certain distance from schools? This talk of zoning everything away from schools and churches is just another knee-jerk reaction from politicians reacting to their non-thinking constituents. A sex offender could be some 14 year old boy who got caught with his 15 year old girlfriend. Guess that makes me one as well. I certainly had sex before I was 18, like many others. Cannabis should be sold in stores just like cigarettes, beer, milk, and eggs. Regardless of location. It is medicine, even when you are not sick. But of course, the idea of preventive medicine is anethema to the AMA. Maybe we could have a system similar to the Indians. You pay a monthly stipend to your doctor, and cancel it when you get sick, until you get well. Just another morning rant. Hope everyone enjoys their day. Peace, JimRev Jim LunsfordFirst Cannabist ChurchOur Church: Found in every joint
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Comment #11 posted by FoM on October 31, 2005 at 07:00:44 PT
'That '70s Show' Goes To Pot Again
08:27 AM CST on Monday, October 31, 2005Absent Everybody Loves Raymond, prime-time TV's longest-running, noncartoon comedy series is: A. Malcolm in the Middle B. Will & Grace C. The King of Queens D. That '70s Show The winner, in a pot-fogged photo finish, is That '70s Show, which joined Fox on Aug. 23, 1998. NBC's W&G and CBS' King of Queens both premiered on Sept. 21 of that year while Fox's Malcolm didn't start until Jan. 9, 2000. That '70s Show also is creeping up on Happy Days as the longest-running series set in Wisconsin, home of the Green Bay Packers, world-class cheese, Blatz beer and Log Cabin Barky. So there's much to celebrate as the pride of fictional Point Place, Wis., starts its eighth season with a one-hour episode. Or maybe you just think the show is stupid, sophomoric and even a bad influence on kids. Let's rewind to hit on the latter point before coming full circle to Wednesday's big-buzz kickoff. The first episode of That '70s Show drew fire in some quarters for its depiction of high school juniors under the influence of marijuana. No actual smoking was shown, then or even now. But the scene in which Eric Foreman (Topher Grace) watched the kitchen walls undulate left no doubt about what he and his pals had just done in their hazy basement lair. Fox entertainment president Peter Roth blew smoke at a summer 1998 session with TV critics. "It is definitely not our intention to in any way endorse or glamorize drugs," he said. The show's co-creator, Terry Turner, added that putting grass out to pasture in the '70s "would be like doing The Untouchables without ever mentioning Prohibition." The republic survived while That '70s Show got bolder over time. So much so that Wednesday's opener finds mom Kitty Foreman (Debra Jo Rupp) getting royally stoned (off-camera) after she and cantankerous husband Red (Kurtwood Smith) find three bags of marijuana in that well-seasoned basement. Their only son Eric has gone off to Africa (translation: Mr. Grace has left the show), but holdover friend Steve Hyde (Danny Masterson) sternly lectures giggly Kitty. "Here are the facts," he says. "When the smoke hits the brain, the cells start dying. This process causes impaired judgment and hallucinations and a lot of other wonderful things." Kitty goes on to eat a box of uncooked spaghetti before the show leaves the rest of its pot-smoking to the now twentysomething main characters and brain-dead Leo the Hippie (Tommy Chong in a recurring role). Let's pause for this brief but serious advisory: KIDS, DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!!! Meanwhile, here's what else is happening. Charter cast member Ashton Kutcher, new husband of Demi Moore, guest-stars in the one-hour premiere and also will be in a Nov. 16 episode with Ms. Moore's ex-husband, Bruce Willis. Otherwise, Mr. Kutcher and his substupid Michael Kelso character have left That '70s Show to both pursue a movie career and run from the paparazzi. Saucy Jackie Burkhardt (Mila Kunis), friendly Fez (Wilmer Valderama), sturdy Donna Pinciotti (Laura Prepon) and the aforementioned Steve Hyde remain full-time cast members. In fact, Steve has just married an exotic dancer named Sam (Jud Tylor) while on a bender in Las Vegas. It should be noted that the show began in the year 1976 and remains curiously stuck in the '70s despite the now-advanced ages of its characters. That's what grass can do to you. Beware. E-mail ebark dallasnews.com That '70s Show C+ Eighth season premiere, 7 p.m. Wednesday, Fox (Channel 4). 1 hr. http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/ent/stories/DN-bark_1031gl.ART.State.Edition1.12dc2518.html
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Comment #10 posted by siege on October 31, 2005 at 06:57:37 PT
psychotropic medications
Well they have not called in ''John Pee'' yet have they! 
  That argument has outraged everyone from domestic-violence counselors to tough-on-crime advocates, who say the SAFER campaign is deliberately deceiving the public with tortured reasoning.Parents are coerced to put their children on psychotropic medications and children are dying. In the United States alone, 8 million children and adolescents are on mind-altering drugs that put them at risk of violent and suicidal side effects."
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Comment #9 posted by OverwhelmSam on October 31, 2005 at 06:05:40 PT
Colorado Ripe for Legalization at the State Level
With all of the initiatives going forward in Colorado, this state is ripe for outright legalization of marijuana. California would be pissed! I'm sure Californians thought they would be first.I wanted to make note of great and articulate article I read on MAPS. The following is an excerpt of this well written analysis of the current drug war:""Many see the drug as fostering a counterculture, which conflicts with basic moral precepts as well as with the operating functions of our society," the report said, nailing it. In other words, pot isn't pot; It's the '60s. It's dropping out, loafing around the bong, promiscuous free love, dissent against conformity, militarism, capitalism -- the whole far-left hippie-flippie-dippy rejection of the established value system. But so is the war on drugs. Only it rejects America from the right."Source: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v05/n1683/a09.html?999
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Comment #8 posted by siege on October 31, 2005 at 05:43:31 PT
Andrew Heaton      
Andrew Heaton is a history and religious studies junior:He has over looked one thing for being a history and religious studies junior, The HOLY BIBLE!!
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Comment #7 posted by Jim Lunsford on October 31, 2005 at 04:25:51 PT
Andrew
I loved this article! Yes, it was tongue in cheek, and crude, but so are most of us. Plus, he pretty much bashed all of the prohibitionists arguments as well. And it does touch in on an important issue: over-population. One could argue that it is a self-correcting problem, but I would much rather see a downturn in population (by at least half, if not more of the global human population) through birth control, rather than epedemics. There are far too many humans to maintain any sort of balance with other species. Something has to give. Maybe we could send all those baptists on to Titan though. Oh, and thank you FoM and Runderwoo. When stoned, I do tend to elaborate on and on and on! lol I am glad that some find it worth reading. Peace, JimRev Jim LunsfordFirst Cannabist ChurchJustice Department: The last bastion of discrimination
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Comment #6 posted by Toker00 on October 31, 2005 at 03:53:02 PT
FoM #2
I know this article is suppose to be pretty much tongue in cheek, but this guy just reduced Hitler's mind set down to one article. I mean, listen to this! STERILIZE POT SMOKERS. He must be kin to the cop from Cali. who thinks all cannabists should be lined up against the wall and shot. Are we that bad? Have we not contributed to life anything of significance that would prevent this sort of mind-set against cannabis users? Do we say "Sterilize the alcoholics, cocaine users, heroin users, acid takers, pharm abusers, tobacco users, tee-totalers"? No, and neither did he. Only the cannabis users. We cause less damage to society than any one of these groups, yet more money is spent on our persecution and prosecution, than all of these groups combined. Go figure.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!  
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Comment #5 posted by billos on October 31, 2005 at 03:14:42 PT
......Andrew Heaton..........
You should be sterilized.
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Comment #4 posted by Taylor121 on October 30, 2005 at 23:14:05 PT
You got to admit
the way they are running this campaign is so different from what we have seen before it should be interesting ot see how it turns out.
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Comment #3 posted by FoM on October 30, 2005 at 22:46:05 PT
Despite SAFER, Pot Not Legal
By Brittany Anas, for dirt Sunday October 30, 2005 
University of Colorado police on at least five occasions this semester have taken marijuana away from smokers on campus and gave warnings instead of tickets, records show. According to police, the warnings have nothing to do with the campus initiative students passed last spring that asked officials to lighten up the penalties for lighting up their pipes. "It has no bearing on how we're doing business," CU Police Lt. Tim McGraw said Thursday. CU officials have said they will not bend to a marijuana reform group that pushed the student measure through last spring and now is waging a controversial campaign in Denver. Police logs show that since the fall semester started in late-August, there have been a couple of courses of action for people caught with weed on campus: Six peoplehave been ticketed for marijuana use. Of those, five were ticketed or arrested on additional charges, including obstructing police officers, underage drinking, drunken driving and false reporting. Four groups of students have been referred to judicial affairs after they were busted with pot on Farrand Field or in campus parking lots. Records from judicial affairs are confidential, and so the outcome of those investigations is unknown. The reform group, Safer Alternative for Enjoyable Recreation, came to CU months after a freshman fraternity pledge died of alcohol poisoning in 2004. The group also passed a similar student initiative in Fort Collins at Colorado State University, where a student there also had died of alcohol poisoning. Before the student vote in Boulder, SAFER held rallies at the Dalton Trumbo Fountain and near Farrand Field preceding the annual 4/20 weed smoke-out on April 20. The organization said alcohol long has been linked to overdose deaths, sexual assault, violent crime and vandalism on campus and that marijuana is a safer alternative. The organization's executive director, Mason Tvert, is organizing demonstrations in Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper's office, and the group contends that marijuana legalization will help curb domestic violence because adults will opt for pot over alcohol. The group recently scaled back billboards that portrayed a battered woman because of controversy surrounding the signs. On Tuesday, Denver residents will vote on the SAFER proposal that the city make it legal for smokers, ages 21 and older, to possess up to 1 ounce of marijuana. Even if Denver votes "yes," police still could file marijuana possession charges under state law. It is a petty offense, punishable by a fine up to $100, according to state statute. Tvert says he'll be back in Boulder soon because he has unfinished business. "This is over on Tuesday," Tvert said. "I'm pretty open for the next seven months." Tvert said that CU officials are not listening to students who voted to lessen marijuana penalties. He said there is a possibility SAFER will campaign to get another initiative on the campus ballot in the spring, and, in the meantime, stage demonstrations on campus. "We did not come (to Boulder) just to get attention and leave," Tvert said. "We want to change the way things are done."http://boulderdirt.com/news/article.cfm/4775
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Comment #2 posted by FoM on October 30, 2005 at 22:40:44 PT
News Article from OUDaily.com
Legalize Pot, Sterilize PotheadsStaff column by Andrew Heaton October 31, 2005   I have a brilliant plan that will save tax dollars, please hippies, increase tax revenue, kidney-punch organized crime and significantly shorten lines at the grocery store.We legalize marijuana, tax the hell out of it and then add a lot of sterility drugs.  Every voting demographic can find something to love about this plan. Legal pot: Green Party, Libertarians, many Democrats. Taxing evil: Republicans. Sterility drugs: Me.  I estimate that the federal government blows $8 billion or so annually on prosecuting marijuana sales and possession. If Mary Jane were decriminalized, those same tax dollars could be spent on more worthwhile expenditures, like combating poverty or sending a chimpanzee to Titan.  If we let the IRS smack weed business around, we’ll even generate some extra revenue. (Better them than crime syndicates. Slightly.) Think about how much money the government makes off of the tobacco and liquor industries every year. That’s three or four more chimps we can shoot to Titan, or maybe even Europa.  Oklahoma itself produces a substantial amount of weed, albeit shoddy from what I’ve heard. The amount of revenue we would suddenly generate exporting weed to dumber states (like Minnesota) would be enormous. We could slap some tariffs on the trade and effectively do two things: thwart evil South American drug lords and put more money into state education. (Or send our own chimp to Titan. There’s really no way to know if we have sufficient revenue for a state space program until we acquire better economic projections.)  As I see it there are two major arguments against legalizing marijuana. The first argument is that marijuana is a gateway drug, and by legalizing it, we’ll expose youth to worse drugs. The logic here is that most heavy drug users also smoke or have smoked marijuana, so it leads to even nastier stuff. The problem is that most heavy drug users also smoke cigarettes and drink, but neither tobacco nor alcohol are thought to tumble into acid trips.  Legalization might well have a reverse effect. By sanctioning marijuana, potheads wont have to go through illicit dealers and will therefore have less exposure to more horrific drugs. No one at the liquor store ever tries to get me hooked on ecstasy or hallucinogenic mushrooms when I’m standing in line to buy port.  The second argument is that, because marijuana will be more available, marijuana consumption will increase. This is a fair argument but, judging by the epidemic usage of marijuana regularly asserted by statistics, I’m inclined to give up on that $8 billion we fritter away each year and resume blasting apes into space.  We need to take a big-picture view of legalizing marijuana and also recall that we’ll be loading it chock-full of gamete napalm. In one or two generations, only the sort of people who beat their children for trying drugs will actually have any, and the matter will resolve itself.  This brings me to my next point, which is that everyone needs to quit copulating so damn much. Have you ever been in line at Wal-Mart and thought, “Wow, I hope there are more people tomorrow?”  Me neither. I think, “Man, I hope all of these people are barren. I’ll probably be in this miserable line next year and folks are living longer nowadays.”  I have been informed that chronic use of marijuana lowers sperm count. That’s not what I’m talking about when I say “sterility drugs.” For one thing, women don’t even have sperm, so it’s not helping them much. If you’ve ever kissed a pothead, you know that he or she tastes like traif, but that won’t deter most men.  No, when I say “sterility drugs,” I mean something that will obliterate any chance of procreation for at least a decade. We’ll add chemicals that will, when taken in the right dosage (say, one bowl a day over a two day period), eliminate reproductive possibilities for experimental college students until they enter their mid-30s.  This might sound a little harsh, or suspiciously like a eugenics program, but are there really that many potheads who are going to care? I bet if you told most reefers that their grass wards off pregnancy they’d say, “Awesome!” and then go eat some Cheetos. I’ve never seen someone get high whilst reading Dr. Spock.  The only foreseeable downside is that, what with all of the stoners smoking their legacies into oblivion, there could be some kind of national demographic shift in population. Certain groups will smoke more and others will smoke little to nothing. That’s why we should go ahead and deport 10 to 20 percent of the Baptists and Mormons to keep them from ganging up on us.  Probably to Canada, but someday, with a lot of hard work, to Titan.  — Andrew Heaton is a history and religious studies junior. His column appears every other Monday, and he can be reached at dailyopinion ou.eduhttp://www.oudaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/10/31/4365986084ecd
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Comment #1 posted by E_Johnson on October 30, 2005 at 22:39:47 PT
The facts speak for themselves
Hundreds arrested during Halloween bashPolice: Most arrests alcohol-relatedhttp://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/30/halloween.arrests.ap/index.html
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