cannabisnews.com: The Other Prison Outrage: On The Home Front The Other Prison Outrage: On The Home Front Posted by CN Staff on May 15, 2004 at 09:17:49 PT By Rich Lowry Source: National Review If we insist on having an orgy of self-flagellation about the prison abuses at Abu Ghraib, we might as well gain something from it. That something shouldn't be a change in our interrogation tactics in the war on terror — they don't seem at fault for the perverse acts of a few MPs — but reform of the ongoing scandal that is the U.S. prison system.It is telling that two of the guards involved in the Iraq scandal were prison guards in the United States. Our prisons aren't run the way cellblocks 1-A and 1-B in Abu Ghraib were between 2 A.M. and 4 A.M. last fall, thank goodness, but they tend to be pits of sexual violence, madness, and drug abuse. They are at once too brutal and too lax. Fixing them is not something we owe the international community or anyone else — besides ourselves. Events at Abu Ghraib have established that we are horrified at the idea of forcible sodomy — some of which might be featured in the new batch of photos — in prisons. Good. That sense of outraged disgust should apply here. An estimated ten percent of prison inmates are victims of rape at least once. Two-thirds of the victims are raped repeatedly, and some male prisoners report 100 or more incidents of sexual assault a year. According to Cindy Struckman-Johnson of the University of South Dakota, a third of the victims have thoughts of committing suicide, and 17 percent attempt it.Suicidal despair is a common feature of prisons, since they are used to warehouse the mentally ill. Instead of deinstitutionalizing the mentally ill, we have trans-institutionalized them, effectively transferring them from mental-health hospitals into prisons. There are more mentally ill people in America's jails and prisons — somewhere between 200,000 and 300,000 — than in all its psychiatric hospitals. They don't get proper treatment and are often punished for the consequences of their illness by being placed in solitary confinement, thus exacerbating their sickness. On top of these problems, there are gangs, drugs, abusive guards, and more. How do we improve our prisons? The most important change has to be in our attitude. Prisons can do great good — they have been the most important factor in declining crime during the past decade. But the people who go there, despite their weakness or wickedness, are human beings and deserve to be treated as such. Incarceration is itself the punishment and shouldn't be augmented by random brutality or poor treatment.A message should be sent from the very top, i.e. governors, that the abuse of prisoners, by fellow inmates or by guards, will not be tolerated. It is especially important that inmate-on-inmate rape and acts of abuse by guards be punished, even if powerful look-the-other-way prison-guard unions don't like it. Overcrowding, which overwhelms guards and helps create the conditions for rape and other violence, should be alleviated. If we are going to jail more people than any other country in the world, let's build more prisons. But since there are limits on resources, the incarceration-intense drug war needs to be re-examined. And the mentally ill should be diverted into mental institutions.Meanwhile, as criminal-justice expert Eli Lehrer argues, while prisoners are under our control we might as well try to do some good for them. Work programs in prison can get prisoners in the habit of working and reduce recidivism. More than ten percent of prisoners test positive for drugs at any given time. Coercive treatment programs should attempt to wean them of addiction. Finally, prisoners tend to be simply dumped on the streets when they are released. More intensive post-prison monitoring can help keep them from going back.It is understandable that Abu Ghraib has raised such an outcry. The abuses there will get more American soldiers killed. But there is something odd about a country that gets more exercised about the treatment of foreign prisoners than the treatment of its own. Let's not expend all of our prison outrage on behalf of Iraqis.Source: National Review (US) Author: Rich Lowry Published: May 14, 2004Copyright: 2004 National Review Contact: letters nationalreview.com Website: http://www.nationalreview.com/ Related Articles:An Ugly Prison Recordhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread18849.shtmlMistreatment of Prisoners Is Called Routine in UShttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread18823.shtmlA Prison State, If Not a Police State http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread18794.shtmlAn American Gulag in The Makinghttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread14279.shtml Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help Comment #81 posted by Hope on May 23, 2004 at 20:26:43 PT FoM, comment # 78 I get the gist of it, for sure. [ Post Comment ] Comment #80 posted by FoM on May 20, 2004 at 20:16:53 PT Many Things Many issues are hard to talk about but this war has made it easier to talk about what we all so often avoid. War changes so many things besides the obvious. [ Post Comment ] Comment #79 posted by Hope on May 20, 2004 at 20:02:58 PT Hard to think about Actually there are many things that are hard to think about for one person or another for one reason or another. Many things. [ Post Comment ] Comment #78 posted by FoM on May 20, 2004 at 20:01:49 PT Hope That's how I feel too. They talked about Bob Dylan in that interview too. Grace mentioned Dylan's song You Got To Serve Somebody. She said when he first made the song she wondered what did he mean you have to serve somebody. Then she realized that we always will serve somebody and we should. This isn't word for word but I hope you get what I'm trying to say that she said. [ Post Comment ] Comment #77 posted by Hope on May 20, 2004 at 19:59:51 PT Four things are hard to think about Death, War, Religion, and Truth. [ Post Comment ] Comment #76 posted by Hope on May 20, 2004 at 19:47:57 PT Grace I can hear Grace’s voice in my mind without electrical help. The understanding that I personally came to was similar. I came to the conclusion that living really is all about Love and life is about, more than anything, how well we loved, or not…and nothing more.Maybe [ Post Comment ] Comment #75 posted by Hope on May 20, 2004 at 19:41:33 PT Grace She's right and I'm glad to hear it. I'm a Grace Slick fan from way back to the Airplane. I'm glad she survived her life. I wish Janice had. [ Post Comment ] Comment #74 posted by FoM on May 20, 2004 at 17:44:30 PT Hope I firmly believe that we all have a purpose but we have the right to not do or do something. Our society is so busy that they miss out on so much. Keeping people always busy trying to make ends meet keeps people from really thinking about values and their importance. I listened to an interview with Grace Slick and Neil Young a while ago. They talked about the words from Greendale's one song. It goes a little love and affection in everything you do will make the world a better place with or without you. Grace Slick said that doing good things for others is why we're on this earth. She said she chased fame and money like everyone but in the end the only thing that is really important is how do we help others. I thought that was nice to hear. [ Post Comment ] Comment #73 posted by Hope on May 20, 2004 at 17:40:59 PT Sophie's Choice I can say that it the story of a Sophie...a young woman, played by Meryl Streep, caught by Nazi's. [ Post Comment ] Comment #72 posted by Hope on May 20, 2004 at 17:33:50 PT Sophie's Choice It's one of those movies you have to see to get the full impact of...and it's hard to see...and I would not recommend it to you. I could tell you and you would think the horror was stunning...yet the movie...and being the mother of a young boy and girl at the time of that movie as well...well...it's just too horrible to talk about. Man's inhumanity to man. [ Post Comment ] Comment #71 posted by FoM on May 20, 2004 at 17:22:31 PT Hope Thank you. Someday I will be able to watch movies that are hard but I use caution. I don't like to go back. I saw the black and white version of Anne Frank too. I thought it was so we would never repeat history that it was made into a movie. How ironic that where Anne Frank and Corrie Ten Booms houses are the society understand and won't hassle people over cannabis. They learned. Our country hasn't. [ Post Comment ] Comment #70 posted by Hope on May 20, 2004 at 17:15:14 PT It was truly awful I am so sorry about your pain. [ Post Comment ] Comment #69 posted by Hope on May 20, 2004 at 17:12:36 PT Anne Frank's Diary I saw the old black and white movie...maybe it was just our black and white TV...when I was about Ann Frank’s age. It stunned me. German Shepherds being handled by men or women in "law enforcement" and those awful sounding pulsating sirens scare me awfully and will to the day I die.May we remember what these people were subjected to...as a warning...to never do it again. At least that's what I thought it was about.Until the dogs came back into common, almost fanatical, use in law enforcement… with a use other than finding missing people. At that point, I knew society…or that thing called “society as a whole”, had forgotten her horror. Bloodhounds, they say, will track people better than some dogs…because the breed is generally social and likes people gregariously. That’s not true of German Shepherds and other large dogs that are trained to attack people. Oh, excuse me…I mean they are trained to “subdue the perpetrator”. [ Post Comment ] Comment #68 posted by FoM on May 20, 2004 at 17:05:17 PT Hope I couldn't watch Schindler's List. It wasn't because of the movie but the pictures of the starving people in the movie. That's how my son looked at the end and I couldn't handle it. I'm sure it is a wonderful movie. I think Steven Spielberg is incredible. [ Post Comment ] Comment #67 posted by FoM on May 20, 2004 at 16:58:53 PT Hope What is Sophie's Choice? [ Post Comment ] Comment #66 posted by Hope on May 20, 2004 at 16:53:39 PT Sophie's Choice I never got over it. It was awful. [ Post Comment ] Comment #65 posted by Hope on May 20, 2004 at 16:51:26 PT Schindler's List Oddly, I've been thinking about Schindler's List lately. You should have hung in there, FoM. Horrible as it was. Schindler was an extraordinary man. A "goodish" Nazi...if you will. He protected people and saved their lives from the ovens and death camps. [ Post Comment ] Comment #64 posted by FoM on May 20, 2004 at 09:04:38 PT afterburner You're welcome. She was quite a lady. [ Post Comment ] Comment #63 posted by afterburner on May 20, 2004 at 06:48:24 PT Prison: the New Civil Rights Issue US MI: Column: Un-American? Look at Tragedies Black Men Suffer by Derrick Z. Jackson, (17 May 2004) Detroit Free Press Michigan http://www.mapinc.org/newscc/v04/n751/a07.html?397 FoM: "When evil men rule people like Corrie Ten Boom rise up and try to help." Thanks for the link and the hope it inspires. [ Post Comment ] Comment #62 posted by FoM on May 19, 2004 at 22:47:49 PT BGreen I'm glad you saw their houses. I had her movie in our video store called The Hiding Place. It never went out and one day I decided that my managers mother should have the movie so I sent it home with her to give to her Mom. She told me she loved it. She was dieing of cancer but the movie brought her peace. [ Post Comment ] Comment #61 posted by BGreen on May 19, 2004 at 22:40:30 PT Actually, I Saw Both Of Their Houses I saw the Anne Frank House in Amsterdam as well as the Corrie Ten Boom house in Haarlem.I'll never forget.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #60 posted by BGreen on May 19, 2004 at 22:36:48 PT I Saw Her House In Haarlem I felt such a sense of awe and the spirit of the many people slaughtered in Haarlem. The entire population was starved and eventually massacred in 1573, not to even mention what happened in WWII. Many of the same buildings, streets, canals and alleys are still there and I walked and photographed the sites with a full understanding of the pain as well as the joy of the people in history like Corrie Ten Boom.Violence solves nothing in today's global society, not even the military lie called "controlled violence."Look at Ireland. Look at Israel and Palestine. Violence begets violence. Violence will NEVER beget peace.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #59 posted by FoM on May 19, 2004 at 22:16:02 PT BGreen The movie I remember about Anne Frank was one I will never forget. I remember how sad I felt for her because she never would be able to fall in love and have a family. When human beings becomes so full of hate that they hurt, torture and kill people I wonder how they get so numb. I remember seeing Corrie Ten Boom on a Christian program years ago and what a woman she was. Here are a few links. When evil men rule people like Corrie Ten Boom rise up and try to help. There are good things even in bad.http://www.corrietenboom.com/http://www.corrietenboom.com/history.htm [ Post Comment ] Comment #58 posted by BGreen on May 19, 2004 at 21:33:20 PT I Had Just Watched the Movie *Anne Frank* It was the story of Anne before and after her diary. We got to see the free-spirited Anne before she became "subhuman." We also got to see Anne in the concentration camp.I still cry thinking about the way they treated that little girl. They humiliated her, abused her and even used german shepherd dogs against her.How in the name of God can we justify the SAME ACTIONS by our own country?The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #57 posted by FoM on May 19, 2004 at 21:14:47 PT BGreen That really makes sense. I never was able to watch more then a little bit of Schindler's List. It's was just to difficult for me to watch. [ Post Comment ] Comment #56 posted by BGreen on May 19, 2004 at 20:29:37 PT An Observation I subscribe to the NetFlix DVD rental and I've had the movie "Schindler's List" in my queue of movies I'm going to rent."Schindler's List" was described as "Now Available" for over a month, *until* the prisoner abuse photos were made public. Since the scandal broke, so many people are renting it that "Schindler's List" skipped over "Short Wait" and "Long Wait" and has since been listed as "Very Long Wait."Apparently I'm not the only one that sees a distinct parallel between hitler and bush.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #55 posted by afterburner on May 19, 2004 at 18:20:57 PT Pot TV News Special Abu Ghraib, USA Pot TV News Special Abu Ghraib, USA. Pot TV News with Loretta Nall. Running Time: 35 min Date Entered: 19 May 2004 Abu Ghraib, USA Part 1 http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pottvshowse-2680.html' WARNING!!!' The following program contains scenes of police and prison guard brutality, profane language, full frontal male nudity and torture and humiliation. Intended for mature audiences with strong stomachs only!' In this first part of a three part series, Loretta Nall exposes the torture and human rights abuses that are inflicted on American prisoners, many of whom are convicted of simple possession only. These acts are committed every day in the supposed Land of the Free. The abuses and torture meted out by sadistic “rent-a-guard” private contractors in a Texas jail directly mirrors the abuses and torture meted out by sadistic “rent-a-soldier” private contractors at Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq.' WHERE IS THE AMERICAN OUTRAGE FOR OUR OWN PEOPLE? ' [ Post Comment ] Comment #54 posted by Cannabis Enthusiast on May 17, 2004 at 14:58:18 PT The Drug War forces people to work The War on Drugs forces people to work hard to pay for their drugs. If you make $10 an hour you have to work at least 10 hours or over a day just to buy a gram of cocaine or a 1/4 ounce of Kind Bud.If there was no drug war, cannabis would be growing everywhere and anyone could just pick it and throw it in their food to cook and eat it and be high all the time. People would always be baked out of their minds and wouldn't ever have to really work to buy more pot. It would basically be a free commodity. [ Post Comment ] Comment #53 posted by afterburner on May 17, 2004 at 10:47:40 PT "Governor Death": People Hate/Fear a Bully Pot-TV to air torture tapes by Pete Brady (16 May, 2004) Abuse in US prisons similar to abuse in Iraq http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3472.html "The similarities between Bush administration wartime incarceration and interrogation techniques and abuses in US prisons will be illuminated in a compelling show soon to air on Marc Emery's Pot-TV Internet television network (www.pot-tv.net)."Pot-TV News reporter Loretta Nall, who is also president of the US Marijuana Party, says she recently received and viewed videotapes showing torture meted out to prisoners in Texas during the late 1990's. Nall says she is editing the tapes for presentation on Pot-TV." [ Post Comment ] Comment #52 posted by Hope on May 17, 2004 at 06:17:48 PT Drug War The government has turned into a powerful nanny thing that will raid your castle and take your possessions and everything else it can get it's hands on if you don't toe their mark. I would not be surprised to learn that at least half our population is supported one way or another by the war on drugs. It's disgusting that something can't be changed easily when it needs changing because so many fearful people depend on unjust laws for their income. They don't care whether it's right or wrong as long as they can make the house and SUV payments. [ Post Comment ] Comment #51 posted by Jose Melendez on May 17, 2004 at 05:39:41 PT unity, not genocide " . . . The "ability to work" is what the drug war is all about.", "Our drug laws are based on racial xenophobia rather than truth . . . "- Chris Buors Marijuana Party of Canada, party leader, Libertarian Party of Winnipeg, MB http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04/n734/a10.html?397 [ Post Comment ] Comment #50 posted by Hope on May 17, 2004 at 05:11:59 PT Unholy Alliance While I did think the piece was "brilliant"...I did not agree with all his statements and conclusions. I believe that the end hope and result of some of these evangelical beliefs is not genocide but unity. Wow. That would be something, wouldn't it? [ Post Comment ] Comment #49 posted by breeze on May 17, 2004 at 03:56:35 PT If you want to believe... I am honored in deed to have had an exchange of words with you dutz, for every time I have a confrontation, it makes me stronger. I am not a people person. I generally do not like people, and I refuse to cast stones at a pointless issue. I have made argument with only a few persons who would try to justify their version of history without understanding the general concensus of past proofs. Your mentality intrigues me, but only momentarily. I did a search with only the words-history of middle east violence, returned 2,040,000 pages on the subject. Did another search on History of violence in America and returned twice this number of pages. So, is it fair to say that we live in a violent world? You were apparently so offended that I made a statement that is basically the American way of viewing the rest of the world, that you clearly had to correct me. I stand corrected. America is violent. I don't know if you are a violent person, but you must certainly be an intersting character to know personally. It must be difficult to go about your life either in trying to find fault when a person makes a statement that is found to be a given or stay on edge correcting people most of the time when you disagree. When I was a child, I was constantly told of the battles and insurgence in the middle east. It wasn't just Israel, Egypt, Iran, Lebbanon that I read about- it was other small nations as well. Each time, a death toll was described. As an adult, I saw holy wars waged on a television screen, tortures on the pc. When I was a child I was told of how violent a major city in my region was, as an adult, I lived there for a while and found that the truth was the city was a violent city- someone was usually violently murdered, raped, robbed, or assaulted at least once a day.People love to fight. But to try to say that there aren't places in the city you live closest too that you avoid after dark is hardly a signal of intellect. There are places in this world where violence is prevelant, in every town, in every country- there are places that are known to be violent simply due to reputation or fact. You provoked the statements that lead to my word play of your your name. Unless you of course are a spiderman fan- Kirsten Durtz. Laugh it off, buzz kill. Get over it. Words on a silicon screen. It wasn't like I insulted your authority, made remarks about your mother, spoke of you as a person of ill repute and otherwise untrustworthy as an individual. Slander is never pretty. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.- a t-shirt worn by an elderly woman I saw in a gas station yesterday Sex is Violence- Janes Addiction [ Post Comment ] Comment #48 posted by duzt on May 16, 2004 at 16:27:08 PT breeze Maybe grow up a bit, the I may respond in full. Our versions of history differ I guess, some "facts" aren't always something that can be proven. Rearranging the letters of my name to try to insult me somehow does nothing more than to lower yourself. Time to grow up. [ Post Comment ] Comment #47 posted by Jose Melendez on May 16, 2004 at 16:12:04 PT is the Link URL field working? is the Link URL field working?Weird, I must have gone back on the browser, because twice I tried to post a link in the text field below . . .* http://reconsider.org/ * ReconsiDer.org [ Post Comment ] Comment #46 posted by Jose Melendez on May 16, 2004 at 16:08:28 PT * ! oops. forgot the * link! [ Post Comment ] Comment #45 posted by Jose Melendez on May 16, 2004 at 16:07:01 PT maybe Congress . . . Perhaps Congress and the Senate should have to undergo cannabisNews.com training. I know I feel better after reading the last few posts on this thread, and learned a lot about the power of having time with this media to revise and extend our remarks, or even reconsider* firmly held, but mistaken or unrealistic beliefs.Thank you all here for waging peace, and please know you are leading by example! [ Post Comment ] Comment #44 posted by FoM on May 16, 2004 at 14:01:08 PT breeze Thank you. After all we are on the same side but maybe with just a few different ideas of how we perceive an issue. [ Post Comment ] Comment #43 posted by breeze on May 16, 2004 at 13:58:04 PT FOM You are absolutely correct.I did not realize that I was flaming, until some one told me that I was wrong in my perception, and I rebutted said fact.I apologize to you- Dutz, for calling you a duntz.There, all better now?Yes - I am a cynical bastard. Comes with the territory. [ Post Comment ] Comment #42 posted by FoM on May 16, 2004 at 13:48:35 PT breeze I was giving you the benefit of the doubt since we don't flame here on CNews. We express how we feel without trying to hurt another by what we say. That is just being civilized. Moslems are good people. Terrorists in any country are bad. I don't hold anything against the Moslem nation or the Jewish nation either. They hate each other and we have gotten in the middle of their fight about their Holy Land. That's how I see it. [ Post Comment ] Comment #41 posted by breeze on May 16, 2004 at 13:32:22 PT FOM- Are you entirely sure it was a mistake?- For dutz to have chosen to make a rebuttal and a slight reprieve on what I presume to be a fact (that the middle east has been a place or severe violence for the past two thousand years or so) in my stating that the region is known for its barbaric attitudes toward anyone who dissents- I percieved dutz to equalifically misspelled its own name. Not intended to be a personal attack- but if it is percieved to be so, then so be it. To tell me to get my facts straight, when thousands of people percive events that are written in thousands of books- and is basically common knowledge among anyone who has a common understanding of the story of how Jesus met his end- it is the work of a dunce. If I came across as anti-semitic, it was in the perception of the reader, not in the writing. Do I blame the jews of today for what happened to Jesus? No. Do I blame the Germans today for what happened to the Jews sixty years ago? No. Do I blame people who own farms in the south for having slaves? No. Do I blame the catholics of today for the inquisition? No, - I think you get where I am going. Can I condemn certain people for their actions just a few days ago? Can I condemn people who are violent in the middle east for the attrocities that were commited just a month ago? What do you think? Yes I can- because what they have done has yet to be resolved peacfully, or with force. Every person who is attentive realizes there will likely never be peace in the middle east, because they have tried at it for so long, it has become apparent that there is no solution to the many problems that trouble the region. Sometimes, there simply isn't an answer to a problem, because the problem just will not go away. What does this have to do with the cannabis issue- more than most realize. With an unstable political climate, our courts are unstable. What makes up the government? More than just a few elitest officials, it is the people who put those people in charge and gives them a paycheck for wirting bad laws. The American public also gives those same leaders a blank check to protect the American public from harm. When those elected officials go awry of protecting the people, it is up to the people to fix the problem. Marijuana laws do not protect but harm, thus we have a situation that MUST be addressed by the public- and the only way to do that is by getting the publics attention and demonstrating a need for resolve. The matters of what happens in the middle east is no concern of mine, for I have never lived there, never wanted to live there, and will never even visit there. What concerns me, is what happens in my own backyard, not someone else's. If I cannot fix a problem on my own home ground, what buisness do I have in telling someone else to fix their problem, especially if that problem doesn't effect me? Well- the argument over this one could go on and on and on, because on some level- its all tied together."War, what is it good for?"- Edwin Star"When I was young and irresponsible, I was young and irresponsible"- GW Bush [ Post Comment ] Comment #40 posted by FoM on May 16, 2004 at 10:41:36 PT breeze You made a slight mistake and misspelled Duzt's name. I fixed it. [ Post Comment ] Comment #39 posted by breeze on May 16, 2004 at 09:36:05 PT duzt- I got my history str8 Okay- the Romans actually did the killing of Jesus. But, Pilot gave the JEWS the choice of who would be tortured to death, between Jesus (basically a man who was guilty of nothing more than exercising free speech) and a man who was a thief, murderer,terrorist . It wasn't the romans who said "We must kill Jesus!," it was a choice that was handed over to the Jews. They had a choice between a man of peace and a man of war- the jews chose war- the romans merely did the deed. Because people by the majority love have bloodlust, they seek out violence, or to watch it happen. Our television shows are filled with violence, the fcc only focuses on sex. Wrestling is a very popular sport, fake, but its popular. It is also violent. Football isn't exactly a ballet, its is violent. The majority of television shows are about violence. People used to pay to see christians mauled by lions, if the same practice were in place today- it would certainly be televised. People have always had a bloodlust- and always will. They love to see others injured, and if they can't see it- they do not hesitate to make it happen when they could just settle things peacfully. When you come upon an accident on the highway, do you not look to see how bad the accident was? Of course you do- you aren't looking to see if it is someone you know, your looking for blood on the asphalt. Its called bloodlust. I basically find fault with people of every race, religion and creed- because I see things differently than most people. I believe in love and compassion, but the fact is that 99.9% of the worlds population does not- and so, I adjust my facts accordingly when making comment about the nature of human beings. By the way- I was a christian at one time, but their actions and ways proved to me that they are any thing BUT examples of love and compassion, but that is my personal history, and observations. I could give hundreds of examples of christians doing UN-christian (satanic?) things to others, and not be citing known history.As far as proclaiming a region as warlike, evil, etc. - look to what we know of the vikings. Go beyound this war like people, and look at the history of Jamaica, The US old west, the pirates who did their buisness off of the coast of the carolinas during colonial times, the inquisition, the dark ages. History speaks volumes about a people, their methods of judicial trials, their beliefs and daily practices. Innocent people are often dragged into violence because of their locale during life- and it happens frequently in the middle east- thousands of years of oppresion and genocide can be cited just about any where in the world. One thing about the south during slavery that most people do not acknowledge, is that black people were not the only slaves- they were the majority, but not the only race that was enslaved. There were white people who were slaves, indian people, chinese, native american, spanish- not one single race was binded by slavery, but many. And IF you want to do some research into the history of slavery in the old south, you will find that the people who were slaves that were brought over from Africa were sold to the slave traders by people of the same color, the people who sold the slaves were black- they basically oppressed their own people and them sold them on open market. Do some research, and you will find it to be true. People of the region were paid to go out and get people of their own color- it wasn't a bunch of white men combing the jungle for the slaves, it was black men who knew where to go get the people who were to be sold into slavery. Slavery is still in existence today- but people don't see it in that way- people who make just enough money to feed themselves are slaves in a system that keeps them from doing any better or having more. Meanwhile, people who have bilions of dollars could make a difference by offering their employees more money, but they do not. They live in the big houses, drive the cars that cost as much as a home- but they aren't slave holders are they? Oh NOOooo. The man who owns nike knows he has children making shoes for pennies a day- and then sells these same shoes to people who make $6.00 an hour in our nation for hundreds. Does this sound like slavery- knee jerk reaction says no, a person can become educated and study their way to a better life- yeah, right. It has happened but not on a grand scale, the numbers of poverty in america don't exactly tell the truth. And poverty is what slavery looks like, its a direct connection. Some people avert poverty buy selling drugs- no one can blame them for that, as it beats the hell out of working for $6.00 an hour when they can make $60.00 in five minutes, $600 in an hour. Which would you choose if you come from nothing? Now- do I not have my facts straight or not? Prove me otherwise... [ Post Comment ] Comment #38 posted by E_Johnson on May 16, 2004 at 08:03:21 PT Crucufixion was a Roman weapon The Romans crucified thousands of people. There was a lot of heated politics between Jesus and the mainstream leaders of his Jewish religion, but crucifixion was a purely Roman way of putting down political dissent. Peter led the Roman church so of course the Roman church is going to lay the blame on people other than the Romans. [ Post Comment ] Comment #37 posted by duzt on May 16, 2004 at 06:33:02 PT middle east comments It's easy to make statements against an entire region but it's also absurd. Jesus was killed by the Romans, get your history straight. And to say that they are so much more violent is a joke. You might want to check out what happens in the USA. Remember the black man that was tied to a truck and drug for miles until his head came off? Take a look back at the south during slavery (and still today). Just because you didn't see a video of it doesn't mean it wasn't much more slow and gruesome. Most countries fight wars hand to hand, it's violent. We fight wars from a distance and somehow that's better. We've killed at least 10,000 Iraqis, I'm not sure it matters how your body is killed. [ Post Comment ] Comment #36 posted by mayan on May 16, 2004 at 03:32:02 PT Bush's Record Low... The Bush regime is backed into a corner...Bush Approval Falls to a Record Low in Newsweek Poll: http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aKqkVXdaSwDI&refer=top_world_newsPhony Tony could be finished...Deputy PM Stirs Speculation About Blair's Future: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=5&u=/nm/20040515/ts_nm/britain_blair_dcThe way out...9/11 ACTION ALERT: http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/WO0405/S00161.htm9/11 panel says too many documents are being stamped secret: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/173449_911panel15.htmlProtesters disrupt Cannes festival: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/3717735.stm9/11 Visibility Project: http://www.septembereleventh.org/ [ Post Comment ] Comment #35 posted by breeze on May 16, 2004 at 00:44:17 PT beheading vid I have seen videos of people being executed, and one in particular was extremely gruesome. Guess where the execution was? the middle east.The people who live there are some of the most barbaric people in the world. There is nothing HOLY about them, or their land- I did not think this until I saw a few horrific executions. They killed Jesus- shouldn't that be enough to tell you that they are some of the lowest scum of the earth, not peacful, not loving, NOT HOLY?http://jordantimes.com/wed/opinion/opinion5.htmI don't mean every person who lives there is scum, but think about it like this- you never ever know who the enemy is when you are on their turf. I feel for those people who want freedom, but I am an American, and I feel more for my own bretheren than I do for a bunch of terrorists.Piece of advice- NEVER feel the curiousity to witness another persons horrors in life without being willing to do something about it or try to change the outcome of the situation in some way.Once you walk three steps in my shoes, your lifes path will never be the same. Walk a mile in them, and you will change others paths.People are concerned about what is happening over there, and I feel for our troops. But, what are we doing over here to make it worth losing their life over? How are we making this country better for the rest of the world? Should we even care about the rest of the world, when the same attrocities happen right here, where we live and breed? This is what I would like to ask our state, national, and community leaders- but they out number me. Can we get the media to do so? No, they are too busy spreading propaganda, or evading the truth.Only a few broadcast stations stand up to the facists, and they do so with great risk of being censored.The only time a person should be in prison is when they are a threat to others, not as punishment- but then again, this would only address the issue of VIOLENT criminals wouldn't it? Sorry to sound bitter, but America still has a death penalty. Why cant we find any one associated with the people who killed an innocent civilians death, and use the death penalty on them- EYE FOR AN EYE- . Holier than thou... it rages on. [ Post Comment ] Comment #34 posted by The GCW on May 15, 2004 at 22:44:23 PT Biblical and otherwise scary. America knows how to treat people with disrespect. I wonder if the level of respect for prison guards just went way down?All those over populated prison just got more dangerous for prison guards.Black and brown people have been getting cheated by evil people.While there has been talk about civil war in IraqIf feels like We are near civil war right here.Why do We have to wait for election day?I still believe cannabis prohibition will end on Bush's watch.But exactly what that means could be out of this world.Can Bush even tell any truth?Bush is blatently anti obedient Christian.I wish Bush would pray to Christ God Our Father for the spirit of truth and recieve it; accept the tree of life and help heal the nations. That I pray.But I fear Bush (with the support of many disobedient Christians) will do the most exact opposite. [ Post Comment ] Comment #33 posted by hope on May 15, 2004 at 20:29:51 PT some went of their own accord some were “driven”, some were led, and some went of their own accord.Including me. [ Post Comment ] Comment #32 posted by hope on May 15, 2004 at 20:23:46 PT global_warming You said, "It seems to me that somehow and in some way we have all been driven astray from God-The Holy."It seems to me like that would be what anybody in his or her right mind would think. Although, I imagine, while some were “driven”, some were led, and some went of their own accord. [ Post Comment ] Comment #31 posted by Cannabis Enthusiast on May 15, 2004 at 20:05:41 PT Video of beheading http://www.ogrish.com/index2.htm Video of American guy getting beheaded by Muslim [ Post Comment ] Comment #30 posted by hope on May 15, 2004 at 19:52:57 PT Afterburner, About Bob Marley. He was brilliant, too. I've perused a lot of brilliance from the perspective of this thread tonight.Thank you. [ Post Comment ] Comment #29 posted by Hope on May 15, 2004 at 19:38:37 PT Jose Thank you. I enjoyed the piece, too. I think Dave Barry is pretty cool. [ Post Comment ] Comment #28 posted by Hope on May 15, 2004 at 19:24:34 PT FoM, comment #26 Right.I understand. [ Post Comment ] Comment #27 posted by Hope on May 15, 2004 at 19:21:43 PT Religious Wars This is a darn good time to be looking for "timbers" in our own eyes while we are trying to "help" someone get the "splinter" we observe in their eye out. [ Post Comment ] Comment #26 posted by FoM on May 15, 2004 at 19:19:11 PT Hope I'm glad you liked it. When 9-11 happened I thought all that is going on now might happen because even though there was no connection between Bin Laden, Hussein and Israel there is a connection. [ Post Comment ] Comment #25 posted by Hope on May 15, 2004 at 19:11:27 PT Unholy Alliance It's brilliant."we should certainly not underestimate them" was a standout and he is so right. [ Post Comment ] Comment #24 posted by FoM on May 15, 2004 at 19:08:45 PT Jose I really liked that article you posted and I'm glad you understood why I posted the one I did. [ Post Comment ] Comment #23 posted by Jose Melendez on May 15, 2004 at 18:44:10 PT " . . . and a child shall lead them . . . " FoM, I understood why you posted the article. Here's another, if lighter perspective:http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/193382p-167129c.html [ Post Comment ] Comment #22 posted by FoM on May 15, 2004 at 18:37:55 PT Hope and Everyone The reason I posted the article from the Jordan Times is basically because I believe that's why this war will be so hard to end. It's a religious war. [ Post Comment ] Comment #21 posted by FoM on May 15, 2004 at 18:15:17 PT afterburner Thank you! [ Post Comment ] Comment #20 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2004 at 18:04:51 PT prison outrage "It is understandable that Abu Ghraib has raised such an outcry. The abuses there will get more American soldiers killed. But there is something odd about a country that gets more exercised about the treatment of foreign prisoners than the treatment of its own. Let's not expend all of our prison outrage on behalf of Iraqis.""Now excuse me while I barf along with the rest of civilized and uncivilized humanity." That should be bark...As long as the Christians are goose-stepping into wars, we will continue to have these problems. Luk 7:36 And a certain one of the Pharisees was asking him that he might eat with him, and having gone into the house of the Pharisee he reclined (at meat), Luk 7:37 and lo, a woman in the city, who was a sinner, having known that he reclineth (at meat) in the house of the Pharisee, having provided an alabaster box of ointment, Luk 7:38 and having stood behind, beside his feet, weeping, she began to wet his feet with the tears, and with the hairs of her head she was wiping, and was kissing his feet, and was anointing with the ointment. Luk 7:39 And the Pharisee who did call him, having seen, spake within himself, saying, `This one, if he were a prophet, would have known who and of what kind is the woman who doth touch him, that she is a sinner.' Luk 7:40 And Jesus answering said unto him, `Simon, I have something to say to thee;' and he saith, `Teacher, say on.' Luk 7:41 `Two debtors were to a certain creditor; the one was owing five hundred denaries, and the other fifty; Luk 7:42 and they not having wherewith to give back, he forgave both; which then of them, say thou, will love him more?' Luk 7:43 And Simon answering said, `I suppose that to whom he forgave the more;' and he said to him, `Rightly thou didst judge.' Luk 7:44 And having turned unto the woman, he said to Simon, `Seest thou this woman? I entered into thy house; water for my feet thou didst not give, but this woman with tears did wet my feet, and with the hairs of her head did wipe; Luk 7:45 a kiss to me thou didst not give, but this woman, from what time I came in, did not cease kissing my feet; Luk 7:46 with oil my head thou didst not anoint, but this woman with ointment did anoint my feet; Luk 7:47 therefore I say to thee, her many sins have been forgiven, because she did love much; but to whom little is forgiven, little he doth love.' Luk 7:48 And he said to her, `Thy sins have been forgiven;' I normally do not use any scriptures to make a point, but in the current climate in this world, Jesus would be in our US prisons this day, with all of our mighty science, we cannot free him. Jesus was known to have hung around with some flaky people, people with shady lives.It seems to me that somehow and in some way we have all been driven astray from God-The Holy.Some might say that the devil, Satan has control over the people, some say that science has shown that myths and superstitions are the ways of ignorant and foolish peoples.I sure hope that the socialogists and experts reach a verdict soon, in the meantime, we are all in danger, for the crooked finger of puritanism and religious sureity is quickly moving to point to another danger in this world.Yes my friend, right here in River City,. [ Post Comment ] Comment #19 posted by afterburner on May 15, 2004 at 18:03:34 PT A Unity Dream To Help Us Heal One love / People get ready http://www.alwaysontherun.net/bob2.htm#l8 http://www.bobmarley.com/songs/songs.cgi?onelove Soundclip - Real Media http://www.bobmarley.com/songs/ram/onelove.ramOne Love! One Heart! Let's get together and feel all right. Hear the children cryin' (One Love!); Hear the children cryin' (One Heart!), Sayin': give thanks and praise to the Lord and I will feel all right; Sayin': let's get together and feel all right. Wo wo-wo wo-wo!Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love!); There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart!): Is there a place for the hopeless sinner, Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own beliefs?One Love! What about the one heart? One Heart! What about - ? Let's get together and feel all right As it was in the beginning (One Love!); So shall it be in the end (One Heart!), All right! Give thanks and praise to the Lord and I will feel all right; Let's get together and feel all right. One more thing!Let's get together to fight this Holy Armagiddyon (One Love!), So when the Man comes there will be no, no doom (One Song!). Have pity on those whose chances grows t'inner; There ain't no hiding place from the Father of Creation.Sayin': One Love! What about the One Heart? (One Heart!) What about the - ? Let's get together and feel all right. I'm pleadin' to mankind! (One Love!); Oh, Lord! (One Heart) Wo-ooh!Give thanks and praise to the Lord and I will feel all right; Let's get together and feel all right. Give thanks and praise to the Lord and I will feel all right; Let's get together and feel all right [ Post Comment ] Comment #18 posted by FoM on May 15, 2004 at 17:23:43 PT Hope This article seemed not too far from the truth. What do you think?http://jordantimes.com/wed/opinion/opinion5.htm [ Post Comment ] Comment #17 posted by Jose Melendez on May 15, 2004 at 17:19:18 PT Note the author: from: http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=112-05142004Iraqi Prisons: Bush Blamed, Says Former White House Official5/14/2004 11:20:00 AM To: National Desk Contact: Bob Weiner, 301-283-0821 or 202-329-1700 WASHINGTON, May 14 /U.S. Newswire/ -- "President Bush's direction of 'Bring-em-on,' 'We'll get him dead or alive,' and do-what-we-want and the rest of the world be damned trickled down from him to Defense Secretary Rumsfeld to military intelligence to prison guards, causing the prisoner abuse scandal," asserts Democratic strategist and former White House Drug Policy and House Government Operations Committee public affairs director Robert Weiner. "Yes, Bush bears blame for the prison scandal," Weiner argues in a statement today. "Defense Secretary Rumsfeld's surprise trip to Baghdad to speak at Abu Ghraib Prison was an impressive attempt to rescue U.S. military morale during the scandal. But to say to the people at THAT prison that 'you're doing a great job' when many there may turn out to have been complicit or tolerant of what was going on will come back to haunt Rumsfeld and his boss." "Many are calling for Rumsfeld to resign because of the culture of intimidation and the lack of disciplined oversight he clearly instigated and allowed in Iraq, leading to the current mess. But if this linkage and potential blame are true for Rumsfeld, why are they not even truer for President Bush?" Weiner asks. Weiner also asserts a larger-than-reported scandal: "Does any of us really believe that seven soldiers and six officers are all that are involved, that Intelligence officials didn't order and guide and support the methods of interrogation and that our highest-ups didn't know, that it's just Abu Ghraib when we've heard similar complaints about Cuba's Guantanamo for two years and other Iraq and Afghanistan prisons since the war began?" He intimates possible Bush direct knowledge: "Hasn't the White House proudly pointed out that President Bush receives an Intelligence briefing every morning - by the agency that oversees obtaining intelligence in the Iraq prisons, the very intelligence gathering area which usurped the traditional prison chain of command over the interrogators of the detainees?" Weiner argues, "To the Rumsfeld vehement assertion that 'the military, not the media' revealed the allegations, we need a little common sense here: yes the military had a news conference in January but it was not until '60 Minutes II' aired the photographs last week, and world media repeated the story while all recoiled in horror, that the full U.S. apology and corrective action machine swung into motion, a gasp to put a new wrapper on a public-relations disaster. I fear minimalism in our response when even now, U.S. officials refuse to reveal the rest of the photos until the media does." "It was equally distressing to watch DOD's muzzling of General Taguba, who wrote the report on the Abu Ghraib prison, in front of the Senate Armed Services Committee on May 11, with DOD insisting that he be surrounded by a higher ranking general and a DOD official who interrupted his answers so that he could barely get out his points. It is important to note that the White House clears congressional hearing strategy and testimony for administration witnesses," Weiner concludes. This statement was issued by Robert Weiner Associates Public Affairs and Issue Strategies, tel. 301-283-0821 or 202-329-1700http://www.usnewswire.com/ [ Post Comment ] Comment #16 posted by Hope on May 15, 2004 at 17:16:04 PT "Hard Times" "Hard Times" by Rice, Rice, Hillman and Pederson"Hard times. We can't let them stop us now.There will be a better day." [ Post Comment ] Comment #15 posted by FoM on May 15, 2004 at 17:14:19 PT Article from Human Rights Watch Prisoner Abuse: How Different are U.S. Prisons?May 14, 2004The sadistic abuse and sexual humiliation by American soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison has shocked most Americans—but not those of us familiar with U.S. jails and prisons. In American prisons today, wanton staff brutality and degrading treatment of inmates occurs across the country with distressing frequency. We know that two of the soldiers charged with abuse at Abu Ghraib were prison guards in the United States. Lane McCotter, who oversaw the reopening of Abu Ghraib prison last year, has a long—and somewhat troubled—history in corrections. For example, he resigned from his position as director of the Utah Department of Corrections in 1998 after a schizophrenic inmate died following sixteen hours of being immobilized in a restraining chair. The Pentagon has said it wants to send more people to Iraq who have U.S. prison experience. But before it does, it should look closely at the human rights records of their prisons. Complete Article: http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/14/usdom8583_txt.htm [ Post Comment ] Comment #14 posted by afterburner on May 15, 2004 at 17:07:02 PT Another Voice Connecting Iraqi/US Prison Treatment share: Canada's largest ethnic newspaper. May 13, 2004OPINION Editorial [OP-ED]: Torture photos spell end of U.S. in Iraq By PETER MADAKA http://www.sharenews.com/editor4.htm [ Post Comment ] Comment #13 posted by FoM on May 15, 2004 at 14:09:35 PT Hope I did my best to avoid the pictures too. I was surprised when they had a link on NewsIndex and it wasn't defined. I should have not gone to the next picture. I thought it was prison torture pictures and they weren't. I saved them for my husband and then deleted them. My husband came home and I told him what happened. I told him I deleted them and he said he didn't want to see them. He said when he was young he saw a picture of a person being beheaded in a magazine and it really freaked him out and I could tell when he recalled the event to me that these pictures do hurt some of us who are sensitive. [ Post Comment ] Comment #12 posted by Hope on May 15, 2004 at 14:07:38 PT Nuevo Mexican I'm not hiding or being naive by not wanting to see the pictures. I wasn't raised in a vacuum. I know what death looks like. I don't need to see it again and again to know what it is. In my case, I don't see how it can help me be better off at all to see the horror that the executioners actually WANTED us to see. They wanted to horrify us...to make us sick. I am not giving them that...for one thing. [ Post Comment ] Comment #11 posted by Hope on May 15, 2004 at 13:56:35 PT Berg I've read enough about it that I have been treading carefully everywhere trying to avoid hearing or seeing it. The Berg's lives are really spoiled, forever. Every picture, every memory, horribly tainted with knowledge of his dreadful death. I grieve with and for them. [ Post Comment ] Comment #10 posted by FoM on May 15, 2004 at 12:59:51 PT Nuevo Mexican I don't want to see pictures of someone being beheaded. I don't mind the pictures of prison torture by our troops. The difference is one is gruesome and the torture of prisoners is disgusting and I want to know what has happened to people at the hands of our government. If people think they want to see the video or pictures of the beheading know that it will shock you and make you feel sick. For those who are sensitive I recommend caution. [ Post Comment ] Comment #9 posted by Nuevo Mexican on May 15, 2004 at 12:50:21 PT Americans need to see the photos, to wake up! Not to be predictably contradictory, but as disgusting as they are, if the American people refuse to 'see' what our soldiers have been ordered to do', we will continue our certain path to self-destruction. I hope i'm wrong.Our tax dollars pay for this, and makes us involuntarily complicite. We must speak out as our silence equals complicity!I know everyone here opposes torture, and brutal murder, Americans continue to be in denial, but seem to be waking up, and are realizing they've been had. You can actually watch CNN and MSNBC again, the effects have overtaken their ability to 'spin'. Not that they are not trying, but it seems useless at this point, unless you're a bush cabaler.And need to take action! I understand not wanting to see the photos, but it is not voyeristic, in this case, but required, to remove the nievete most have, (not C-newsers of course) have about how far our Gov and Military will go to see the PNAC plan carried out to its inevitable conclusion. The video is criminal evidence of behind the scenes U.S. participation in the beheading, and all the gruesome photos of bushporno-sickness, will see to it he is frog marched in handcuffs into a spider hole in Iraq. As I've said before. Karma is a bitch, and bush will get his, as he is starting to now.A Review Bush's POW Porn By Dr. SUSAN BLOCKI was wondering when I would get a glimpse into the erotic nature of George W. Bush. Now, with the release of The Photos of the sexual torture that lurks within the bowels of Bush's cells, I'd say I've got my glimpse.Now excuse me while I barf along with the rest of civilized and uncivilized humanity.They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Each of The Photos is worth a thousand new terrorists, fully loaded, strapped up and ready to blow up as many ugly Americans as possible.But I digress.I want to take a long, hard look at Bush's sexuality. Because The Photos are Bush's porn. Oh, he says they "disgust" him. Of course, they do. Listen, I'm a sex therapist. Many of my clients will say something disgusts them at first, only to confess a few sessions later that it really turns them on.Shortly after the censorship dam burst and The Photos were released publicly, Bush issued his first attempt at apologizing: "I share a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated." He coughed up the words like a chicken bone, or that pretzel he swallowed and almost choked on. And he looked like a shifty-eyed boy caught by his mama, his schoolteacher and the whole neighborhood with his political pants down, way down around his ankles, exposing his severe shortcomings for all the world to revile.Notice that he started to say how "those prisoners" were "treated." But then, he couldn't say it. After all, it might have given him an erection. Which would not help his reelection.George II was so disgusted that, a few hours after he made these pious pronouncements, he went to a private party at the home of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Line Producer of Bush's POW Porn. I assume that Rummy and Mrs. Rummy provided barf bags for everyone.http://www.counterpunch.org/block05142004.htmlNick Berg's 'Beheading' a False FlagOur hearts go out to Berg's family and friends. From all accounts I have read he was a very nice man. It is a true tragedy that his body was hacked up for someone's political gain. However, we vehemently disagree with the official story that he death was due to beheading by 'Zarqawi'.Also, we have made the difficult decision to mirror the best copy of the video we were able to find. Despite all the hype, or perhaps because of it, finding a quality copy to further the critical thought and discussion necessary for a democratic society has proven very difficult for some. We can take up to 100k hits on this video, any link *MUST* direct to this page and not link the video itself.Last Updated 11:05 am Mountain Time, USA 15 May 2004 Click Here for the Video 39 Problems with the Video and Official Story 1] Berg had connections to al Qaeda terrorists strong enough to be questioned by the FBI. His email was used by accused terrorist Zacharias Moussaoui. 2] The United States and the Iraqi police detained Berg for 13 days, not releasing him until his father filed suit. He was detained as a suspected Israeli spy. The US now denies it had anything to do with the detention despite correspondence to the contrary. The Iraqi police also deny any involvement in his detention. They are playing hot potato with it. 3] When Berg was detained he, a Jew, had a copy of the Koran and an anti-semetic book entitled 'The Jewish Problem'. That is just strange. read the 36 other reasons! More added daily! More......http://topplerummy.org/berg/Take action June 5th!!! Int'l Day of Emergency Protests: Saturday, June 5 March on the Pentagon Washington DC Gather 12 noon - White House Mass Mobilizations in San Francisco & Los Angeles Bring the Troops Home Now All foreign troops OUT of Iraq End the Colonial Occupation of Palestine Support the Right of Return http://internationalanswer.org/More on 'war porn' and Iraq, hold your nose, and imagine the unimaginable!:::Iraqi Women Raped on Film:::Sold to Porn Sites::: by al-masakin Friday, May. 14, 2004 at 4:19 PM Controversy Continues Over GI Rape Photos; “Iraq Babes” Shut Down May 14, 2004 By Bruce Kennedy, JUS The American website, "Iraq Babes," has been shut down as the controversy over pictures depicting US GI’s gang-raping Iraqi woman continues. Linda MacNew, the site’s registrant, told World Net Daily that she was not able to verify conclusively that the photos, which she said were produced by the Hungarian "Sex in War" site, were legal or illegal – meaning whether the women involved were without question porn actresses or were actually raped on camera. Controversy Continues Over GI Rape Photos; “Iraq Babes” Shut Down May 14, 2004 By Bruce Kennedy, JUS http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php?article=820&list=/home.php& http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/05/1681001.phpWho is advising Kerry?Kerry Again Opposes Same-Sex Marriage: wake up John! (He will, after he's elected, then he'' be accused of doing a 'Gary Johnson'! Remember him?Asked if he would offer his congratulations to the newly married, Kerry replied: "I obviously wish everyone happiness. I want everyone to feel fulfilled and happy in their lives. The way to do that is by respecting every citizen's rights under the Constitution."Last but not least, and on a 'postitive' note:Super Star Power May 12, 2004 Congressman Dennis Kucinich looks on as activist / actor Sean Penn speaks out against the Iraq War to a surging crowd of Kucinich supporters outside Portland's historic Bagdad Theater Tuesday evening. Penn flew into Portland for a single evening to support Kucinich's bid for the Oregon May 18 primary.The scene outside the Bagdad Theater in Portland's eclectic Sunnyside Neighborhood was electric. In anticipation of his arrival, supporters began waving Kucinich signs and shimmying in funky dance-step gyrations up and down sidewalks and across the intersections of S.E. Hawthorne Blvd and 37th St, which some Portland residents consider the center of the known universe. A steady stream of blatting horns from passing cars signaled ongoing support as the excitement mounted. Even a handful of Bush supporters seemed energized by the deep pulsing beat of a drum tape and the excited chant of "Dennis, Dennis" as people in second-story apartments sat in their windows with their heels drumming against outside walls.http://www.kucinich.us/messages/superstarpower.php#videos [ Post Comment ] Comment #8 posted by FoM on May 15, 2004 at 12:23:30 PT Max Flowers I wanted to mention that I am a wuss. I avoid conflict and anything that might make me feel ill. I understand our curiosity about seeking out pictures but are we ready to live with what we see? That is the hard part about what to censor or not. I'm glad I don't have to make decisions like that. [ Post Comment ] Comment #7 posted by FoM on May 15, 2004 at 11:59:35 PT I Deleted The Pictures That helps but not much. [ Post Comment ] Comment #6 posted by FoM on May 15, 2004 at 11:53:41 PT Max Flowers I didn't look for the video or pictures. I was looking for news to post. On the top of News Index there was a link. I thought it was more of the prison abuse pictures and clicked on the link. I shouldn't have gone to the next picture but I did. All hell is breaking lose in Israel and Iraq. I question if this can be stopped. It might be too late. I still feel sick. I saved them to show my husband when he gets home but I feel like my computer is dirty ( I know that sounds dumb but that's how I feel) so I'm going to delete them. My husband doesn't need to see them either. [ Post Comment ] Comment #5 posted by Max Flowers on May 15, 2004 at 11:38:46 PT FoM Feel lucky that you were smarter than I was---like an idiot I sought the uncut video out on the internet and watched it.BIG mistake.It was the latent teenager in me or something; when I knew others had seen it and I hadn't, for some reason I wanted to see it. Well there is a damn good reason news networks chose not to play it. Because you know it's real, it is horrible beyond your wildest nightmares. I'd say 80% of people would NOT be able to handle it. Fortunately, between the original quality and watching it as a pixelated Quicktime copy, the video quality was quite bad, because if that thing had had high res broadcast quality video I would have vomited. It haunts me still, days later, and I suspect it will for the rest of my life. [ Post Comment ] Comment #4 posted by FoM on May 15, 2004 at 10:21:47 PT I Feel Sick I just saw the pictures of the beheading. When will it stop. [ Post Comment ] Comment #3 posted by FoM on May 15, 2004 at 09:58:18 PT A Comment Even this article is missing the point. How have prisons helped? How many of those incarcerated are there for murder? How about white collar crime? How many are there? How many are in for drug offenses? [ Post Comment ] Comment #2 posted by FoM on May 15, 2004 at 09:37:48 PT Kerry Better Change His Tune We don't need more policing of our country. We need less! More Cops Endorse Kerry: Reflects John Kerry's Strong Anti-Crime Record, Bush's Failures to Support Law Enforcement, Says Campaignhttp://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=121-05142004 [ Post Comment ] Comment #1 posted by FoM on May 15, 2004 at 09:18:47 PT Thank You National Review I was beginning to wonder where an article might be. [ Post Comment ] Post Comment