cannabisnews.com: Legal Quandary Snags Medical Pot Users 





Legal Quandary Snags Medical Pot Users 
Posted by FoM on March 20, 2000 at 09:23:27 PT
By Cathy Logg, Herald Writer 
Source: Herald Net
Marysville case puts spotlight on clash of federal, state laws.Washington state's legitimate medical marijuana users face a problem. They can legally grow their own pot or purchase it, but anyone who gives or sells them marijuana, its seeds or plants could be charged with a felony.
"That's the problem," said Dr. Rob Killian of Seattle, author of the medical marijuana initiative approved by voters in 1998. "People don't know where to go to get it."The problem can't be fixed by prosecutors or by the state Legislature because lawmakers can't override federal law, which doesn't recognize marijuana as a legal drug, Killian said."We're trying to change that," he said, adding medical marijuana supporters were denied a hearing in Congress."We believe the more states that pass this, the more pressure will be put on Congress to change the federal law," Killian said. Beverly Foxx, 64, who has been staying in Everett, stoked up the issue in Snohomish County two weeks ago when Marysville police evacuating a motel because of a natural gas leak seized about 35 marijuana plants from a room rented to her son, Alex Rundquist.Foxx, who says she's authorized to use marijuana under the initiative, wants her plants back. But police kept the plants and sent a report to the Snohomish County prosecutor's office for a review that could take weeks.Foxx has threatened to light up a marijuana pipe in the Marysville police station to get the issue before a judge in hopes of clarifying the law and getting her plants back.She has papers signed by several doctors regarding her medical problems, but the papers predate the initiative's passage. At least one of the doctors now says Foxx doesn't qualify as a legal medical marijuana user.Among her medical problems, she said, are cancer, a cyst behind one eye, arthritis and intractable pain.Foxx said she has new documentation from two doctors and her attorney will meet next week with the Marysville officer who seized her plants so he can review her paperwork.After that, Snohomish County prosecutors will decide whether Foxx will be charged. They did not want to discuss the case before they receive all the paperwork from Marysville police.The initiative was specifically crafted to keep the state out of federal court, Killian said. Under the law, physicians are allowed to discuss with patients marijuana's risks and possible benefits, and if the benefits outweigh the risks, the doctor can state it in writing. Doctors cannot prescribe marijuana, and they're prohibited from discussing where or how patients can get it.There are things in the law that need to be clarified, such as what constitutes a legal 60-day supply of pot. So far, authorities say there has been no test case on which a court could issue a ruling.A bill this year to allow the state Health Department to define such a supply was supported by police and prosecutor associations, and passed the state Senate, but was blocked in a House committee by Rep. Mike Carrell, R-University Place, Killian said.A proposal last year to create a registry of authorized users also died in committee, he said.That leaves patients who are legally entitled to use marijuana, as well as police charged with enforcing the law, in a quandary."In my opinion, this law was about protecting people on the local level, where most drug arrests happen," said Killian, a family physician who specializes in HIV and AIDS. "Marijuana is ubiquitous and available everywhere. Patients have had little trouble getting access to it."However, anyone who supplies it to them runs a risk.No concrete numbers are available regarding how many patients use marijuana medicinally because there is no registry, authorities say.It is used to reduce extreme nausea, such as from cancer or chemotherapy; to increase appetite to allow normal food consumption; to control muscle spasms, seizures and chronic pain; and to reduce eye pressure in glaucoma patients.Organizations such as Green Cross in Seattle provide information and support to medical marijuana patients, along with the pot itself. The co-op serves more than 1,000 patients per month, according to JoAnna McKee, its co-founder and director."Green Cross should be teaching people how to grow their own, but they charge for pot. It's an absolute business venture," Killian said.A 60-day supply is about a pound of marijuana, McKee said, although the law doesn't define it. Some patients grow their own plants and if they have extra, they provide it to the co-op to share it with others, she said."It's given away for cost," she said. "We ask for a donation to cover the cost of the lights and stuff for the patients. It's totally a nonprofit organization."We know that right now there are patients who are dying who couldn't get the medicine for themselves, who are not capable of growing it for themselves. You can't just tell them, 'I'm sorry, I can't help you.' "Police and prosecutors don't target such groups or monitor to whom marijuana is distributed, but those people could be charged and prosecuted for supplying marijuana, authorities say.The biggest stumbling block is determining how much pot is enough."Nobody knows for sure what that is," said Dan Satterberg, chief of staff in the King County prosecutor's office."You'll know it when you see it; you'll know it when it's excessive. I don't think prosecutors are going to want to go after a case where it's a 62-day supply. But if you've got hundreds of plants or pounds of pot, then that's something a defendant can argue and something for a jury to consider," Satterberg said. "Our policy is to enforce the law." His office works directly with King County police agencies to provide consistency in how they approach possible medical marijuana cases.One of the great flaws of the initiative is that it didn't set up any distribution network, he said. A doctor simply documents that patients have one of the qualifying diseases or intractable pain."Then the patient is essentially on their own to enter into a criminal transaction with people who don't sell regulated items," Satterberg said. "They're buying it on the street. And at some point up the chain, someone has committed a felony crime that has no defense to it," he saidAhead of many other police agencies, the Seattle Police Department has developed a draft enforcement policy to guide officers investigating marijuana cases in which people claim a legal right to possess and use it, said Leo Poort, the department's legal adviser. The policy requires officers to take and test a sample, as well as to document the amount of marijuana a person has, along with their documentation, and to ask what the person's daily dose is."We've asked them to consult with us when they see such as case," and to refrain from arresting and booking a person "until we figure out what we've got," Satterberg said.You can call Herald Writer Cathy Logg at: 425-339-3437or send e-mail to: logg heraldnet.com Published: March 20, 2000Comments: newmedia heraldnet.comCopyright © 2000 The Daily Herald Co. Related Articles:Washington Citizens For Medical Rights http://www.eventure.com/i692/ Green Crosshttp://www.hemp.net/greencross/Crohn's On List For Medical Marijuana http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread3617.shtmlMed. Marijuana Law Expanded to Add Crohn's Diseasehttp://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread3602.shtml CannabisNews Articles On Dr. Rob Killian & Green Cross:http://www.google.com/search?q=cannabisnews+Killianhttp://www.google.com/search?q=cannabisnews+green+cross
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Comment #13 posted by Tim Stone on March 21, 2000 at 15:12:00 PT
Where there's a will, there's a way
As far as the question of apparent conflict between state and fed cannabis law with the med-pot initiatives, I have no law training but as a layperson would venture the following:If state and local law enforcement officers are sincerely dedicated to enforcing _all_ state and local laws, as they are written, then they should abide by the state med-pot laws until and unless a federal court overrules the state law. Yes, fed law is supreme, but the feds must _act_ by challenging the med-pot law in court. To the best of my understanding, the California state constitution specifically says that in the case of an apparent conflict between state and fed law, the state law will remain in effect until and unless a federal appellate court overturns the state law. So I think the cops are hiding behind this can't-enforce-because-it's-against-federal-law - dodge in state med-pot laws. They're using that as an excuse not to enforce a law they don't happen to agree with. Where there's a cop-will to enforce the law, even one cops don't agree with, there's a way around all the "how much is enough" and "doctors can't prescribe" legal details. The problem then being that many state and local cops, especially those specializing in drug enforcement, are just plumb refusing to enfore a state law because they don't happen to agree with it. The ramifications of that sort of -enforce-the-law-only-if-I-happen-to-agree-with-it- behavior by cops is clearly dangerous.Please note that the feds have had four years now to take California to court and envoke federal sovereignty over the state med-pot law, and haven't done so. Since the fed law says cannabis is Schedule 1, no known medical uses, high potential for abuse, and since fed law always supersedes state, why have the feds _not_ taken the issue to court in ther past four years? Could it be that they are afraid of a court case where they cannot control everything, as usual, to assure a verdict favorable to them? Could they fear that such a court case would expose the gigantic cannabis-war scam, so it's not in their interests to pursue the obvious legal recourse?If there are any attorneys reading this, some professional info on why the feds have not challenged the med-pot laws in court would be a great help. Likewise guidance to any URLs that might discuss this specific issue. 
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Comment #12 posted by observer on March 21, 2000 at 13:24:50 PT
Who Supports Medical Marijuana, Joyce?
Nalepka: "I can't comment on any of the agencies you mention, I've never heard of them. It appears they may be from other countries. There are dozens of legalizing organizations that have formed in this country that sound legitimate. However, some of them have only one member."[the following list is from from]http://marijuana-as-medicine.org/Alliance/support.htmlU.S. Medical Support:    American Academy of Family Physicians    American Medical Students Association    American Public Health Association    Burlington (VT) Board of Health    California Nurses Association    Colorado Nurses Association    Mississippi Nurses Association    National Nurses Society on Addictions    New Mexico Nurses Association    Northern New England Psychiatric Society    New York Nurses Association    Physicians Association for AIDS Care    Virginia Nurses Association    Virginia Nurses Society on Addictions    "A 1991 Harvard survey of the nation's oncologists found that 44% of the cancer specialists had recommended patients break the law to obtain the marijuana they medically required. An astonishing 89% of those expressing an opinion felt marijuana should be legally available, by prescription."
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Comment #11 posted by Van on March 21, 2000 at 04:04:45 PT:
Dear Joyce, You are a favorite around here
It's a hell of a note when someone with a brain gets ahold of yourpropaganda.Thanks for your previous reply suggesting that I might be a drug user. Sametactic as your DeForest used. I am not, but even if I was that is besidethe point. The point is that your efforts attempt to condemn many Americansto unnecessary pain and suffering. You know it and your defense is full ofholes. Enjoy....I kind of like "observer's" name for you....Frau Nalepka. Seemsfitting. Oh wait, that's German...what is Frau in Russian (to match Czar)?********************Sent to Joyce on Monday....along with this page. Oh, and good job greenfox! and observer too.Everytime she opens her mouth and someone actually listens, her credibility is diminshed.
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Comment #10 posted by observer on March 20, 2000 at 15:44:14 PT
Glad You Wrote!
> So then are you saying you're glad that I wrote her, or that I shouldn't have..?I'm glad you wrote her! ... It gives us a chance to examine her rationale.I also want to know exactly what she means by, "It seems theonly preventive measure is behavior change." too. Is she implying that people who have been given HIV via tainted blood, for example, could "change" their "behavior" to avoid infection? What does she mean by that I wonder? Was this just a little bonus morality barb Nalepka treated us to?
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Comment #9 posted by greenfox on March 20, 2000 at 15:30:53 PT
Hey, Observer...
So then are you saying you're glad that I wrote her, or that I shouldn't have..?I get mixed feedback regarding the info I get.  .o Wanted/unwanted? I fear that... hmm well let me know.ps- (this sounds very rude but it's not meant to be, nor is it solely directed at anyone...but..) are there any NORML members here but me? Any STRONG activists (ie actually voulenteer, etc.) and do you guys think that NORML is a good place to donate my efforts? Just curious..
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Comment #8 posted by observer on March 20, 2000 at 13:13:02 PT
Doc's Rx: Triplicate and Submit to Gov Prosecutors
> The active ingredient ONE active ingredient, of many. > that is credited ("is credited" -- passive voice ... is credited by some. Others *also* give gredit to other active cannibis ingredients...)> with affecting nausea is tetrahydrocannabinol. It is already available in synthetic form under the trade name Marinol (TM). Many pharmacists we've spoken to have told us that there are so many superior medicines available --they rarely get request for it.But the propagandists here selective omits mentioning a few facts. The Federal and many state governments make it extra difficult for medical doctors to perscribe even Marinol!see:Bill To Prescribe Synthetic Pot Goes To Governor (Mar 2000)http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread5104.shtml``For example, physicians who prescribe the drug [Marinol] to control nausea and vomiting would no longer have to write the prescription in triplicate and submit a copy to the Justice Department.''Did Joyce "just happen" to forget to mention these roadblocks that the prescribing doctor must overcome? "They rarely get request for it.", Joyce asserts, misleading you as to why this might be the case. Why do you think Frau Nalepka left out some information here?
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Comment #7 posted by MMM on March 20, 2000 at 12:12:08 PT
Nice work, Observer!
Excellent information. You should be writing articles instead of Joyce. Have you thought of running for office?We need at least ONE high IQ person who can enlighten the public. Anyhow, thanks again.
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Comment #6 posted by FoM on March 20, 2000 at 12:01:23 PT
POT-TV Internetwork
Really good comments everyone!Take a look at this new web site when you have time. Here it is! POT-TV audio broadcasting begins on March 20 at 4:20pm PST; video broadcasting begins at 4:20pm PST on April 20. http://www.pot-tv.net/
POT-TV Internetwork
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Comment #5 posted by observer on March 20, 2000 at 11:25:11 PT
Cannabis and Immunity Studies
MARIJUANA and IMMUNITY LEO E HOLLISTER, M.D. Journal of Psychoactive Drugs p159-163 Vol.24 Apr-Jun 1992 http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/medical/hollis2.htm http://yage.lycaeum.org/drugwar/marijim.html etc.Review of Human Studies on Medical Use of Marijuanaby Dale H. Gieringer, Ph.D.August 1996 http://www.natlnorml.org/medical/medmj.studies.shtml :''23 One study of 10 healthy subjects foundsignificantly higher T-cell counts afterexposure to marijuana: D. Tashkin,"Cannabis 1977," Ann. Intern. Med.89:539-49 (1978). Recenty lab studies havevariously found that THC (1) decreasesinterleukin-6, while increasing tumornecrosis factor-alpha: SC Shivers et al,"Delta-9-THC modulates IL-1 bioactivity inhuman monocyte/macrophage cell lines," LifeSciences 54(17) 1281-9 (1994); or (2)inhibits TNF-alpha: H Friedman et al,"Marijuana, receptros andimmunomodulation," Advances in ExperimentalMedicine and Biology 373: 103-113 (1995);or (3) stimulates production of interleukin2 in rats: Susan Pross at the Univ. ofSouth Florida, Tampa (personalcommunication).24 Richard A Kaslow et al, "No Evidence for a Role of Alcohol or Other Psychoactive Drugs in Accelerating Immunodeficiency in HIV-1 Positive Individuals," JAMA 261:3424-9 (June 16, 1989); M.S. Ascher et al, "Does drug use cause AIDS?," Nature 36: 103-4 (March 11, 1993).25 Di Franco et al, "The Lack of Association of Marijuana and Other Recreational Drugs With Progression to AIDS in the SFMHS," XI International Conference on AIDS, Vancouver, B.C., Canada July 1996''
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Comment #4 posted by observer on March 20, 2000 at 11:10:28 PT
Immune System Myth: More Propaganda From Joycie
Did Frau Joyce "just accidently happen" (?) to forget mentioning JAIL, again? Why do you suppose she like to omit this little detail?> ..in research done on monkeys as early as 1974, the immune system response was reduced by 52%. See "Marijuana - Hashish Epidemic" hearings before Senate Judiciary Committee, May 9 - 13, l974. Note that she gives no real reference, only a mention of a 1974 hearing. She does this because that study was discredited long ago, but she wants to bolster her agenda with claims having the air of authority that the title "hearings before Senate Judiciary Committee" imparts. She doesn't have anything that might "prove" her point. So she just throws out discredited old claims as a red herring. She's hoping you won't notice.> There have been many studies since That don't replicate the findings, that don't prove her point, that have nothing to do with MJ ... sure, there are lots of "studies" ... but so what? More empty rhetoric from Joyce:> but isn't it tragic that these findings have never been made public in the general media? Not if they are laughably bogus, Nahas-quality "research". On second thought, Joyce, why don't you give us some details (like a *legitimate* reference to research)? Then others can better judge your credibility and agenda accordingly.- - -fromhttp://www.fusecom.net/cnc/clink/mjmyth.html''Myth: Marijuana damages the immune system . . .''A variety of studies indicate that THC and other cannabinoids may exercise mild, reversible immuno-suppressive effects by inhibiting the activity of immune system cells know as lymphocytes (T- and B-cells) and macrophages. It is dubious whether these effects are of import to human health, since they are based mainly on theoretical laboratory and animal studies. According to a review by Dr. Leo Hollister:(8) "The evidence [on immune suppression] has been contradictory and is more supportive of some degree of immunosuppression only when one considers in vitro studies. These have been seriously flawed by the very high concentrations of drug used to produce immunosuppression. The closer that experimental studies have been to actual clinical situations, the less compelling has been the evidence."The immune suppression issue was first raised in research by the notorious cannabophobe Dr. Gabriel Nahas, but a flurry of research by the Reagan administration failed to find anything alarming. The recent discovery of a cannabinoid receptor inside rat spleens, where immune cells reside, raises the likelihood that cannabinoids do exert some sort of influence on the immune system.(9) It has even been suggested that these effects might be beneficial for patients with auto-immune diseases such as multiple sclerosis. Nevertheless, not a single case of marijuana-induced immune deficiency has ever been clinically or epidemiologically detected in humans.One exception is the lungs, where chronic pots smokers have been shown to suffer damage to the immune cells known as alveolar macrophages and other defense mechanisms.(10) It is unclear how much of this damage is due to THC, as opposed to all of the other toxins that occur in smoke, many of which can be filtered out by waterpipes and other devices(11).There is no reason to think marijuana is dangerous to AIDS patients. On the contrary, many AIDS patients report that marijuana helps avert the deadly "wasting syndrome" by stimulating appetite and reducing nausea. Cannabinoids do not actually damage the T-cells, which are depleted in HIV patients: one study even found that marijuana exposure increased T-cell counts in subjects (not AIDS patients) whose T-cell counts had been low.(12) Epidemiological studies have found no relation between use of marijuana or other drugs and development of AIDS.(13)''---8.Dr. Leo Hollister, Marijuana and Immunity, Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 20(1): 3-8 (Jan/Mar 1988).  9.Sean Munro, Kerrie Thomas and Muna Abu-Shaar, Molecular characterization of a peripheral receptor for cannabinoids, Nature 365:61-5   (Sept. 2, 1993); Leslie Iversen, Medical Uses of Marijuana?, ibid. pp. 12-3.  10.D. Tashkin, Is Frequent Marijuana Smoking Hazardous To Health,? op. cit.  11.Nicholas Cozzi, ibid.  12.Donald Tashkin et al., Cannabis 1977, Ann. Intern. Med. 89:539-49 (1978).  13.Richard A Kaslow et al, No Evidence for a Role of Alcohol or Other Psychoactive Drugs in Accelerating Immunodeficiency in HIV-1-Positive   Individuals, JAMA 261:3424-9 (June 16, 1989). http://www.fusecom.net/cnc/clink/mjmyth.html et al.
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Comment #3 posted by MMM on March 20, 2000 at 10:19:55 PT
Let's not forget...
A monkey study does NOT always translate to humans. THAT is why the government is okaying marijuana for AIDS and Cancer patients. How about Cubie who's the longest lived adrenal cancer patient -- probably because of smoking. The immune system and happiness are intertwined, so if it give patients peace, their immune systems will be stronger.Perhaps the government should run a study on AIDS and Cancer patients who smoke MJ and compare them to patients who don't ... then figure out which group lives longer. I'd bet my last dollar it'd be the patients who smoke.
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Comment #2 posted by greenfox on March 20, 2000 at 10:01:15 PT
Regarding americacares.com- her reply to my letter
The active ingredient that is credited with affecting nausea istetrahydrocannabinol. It is already available in synthetic form under thetrade name Marinol (TM).  Many pharmacists we've spoken to have told usthat there are so many superior medicines available --they rarely get requestfor it.There are, reportedly approximately 8 layers of better medications availablethat do a better job without the side effects and damage to the immune systemthat NIH reports happens with marijuana.NIH states in their publication 95-4036, p. l7 that "Patients with HIV andother diseases of the immune system should avoid marijuana." AIDS is adisease of the immune system. IIn research done on monkeys as early as 1974, the immune system response wasreduced by 52%. See "Marijuana - Hashish Epidemic" hearings before SenateJudiciary Committee, May 9 - 13, l974. There have been many studies sincebut isn't it tragic that these findings have never been made public in thegeneral media?  Dr. Gary Cohan of California has said, "If your doctor recommends marijuanaas a treatment for AIDS, you have a lousy doctor."Tell your cousin he/she may be doing more damage with marijuana. In fact, wehave suggested before the Maryland State legislature that AIDS patientsshould be forming a class action suit against the government for not doing abetter job of helping AIDS patients understand that smoking marijuana has notherapeutic value.In fact, the reason the legalizers have taken their case to statelegislatures is that the Food and Drug Administration will never approvemarijuana under current laws.I can't comment on any of the agencies you mention, I've never heard of them. It appears they may be from other countries. There are dozens of legalizingorganizations that have formed in this country that sound legitimate.However, some of them have only one member. We wish your cousin well and hope that he/she finds a doctor who uses onlythe very latest medications to treat this horrible disease. It seems theonly preventive measure is behavior change.Joyce Nalepka 
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Comment #1 posted by greenfox on March 20, 2000 at 09:59:46 PT
regarding america cares.com (this was MY letter)
HelloYou don't know me but I know of your site, www.americacares.com; and Ihave read through it completely. My question to you is this:If cannabis sativa, indica (marijuana) has no medical value, then why didthe federal IOM report reveal that marijuana can be useful againstvomiting, wasting syndrome, etc.? I am not a user myself, but I do have acousin that claims marijuana saves her life. She is dying from AIDS, yetfor whatever reason, the doctors that she is currently seeing (BlueCross/Shield) suggest (off the books, of course, for fear of personalprosecution) that marijuana is the only thing keeping her from loosingweight. And you also claim that no medical ass. currently agrees withthis standpoint on marijuana, yet the following list seem to: BMAOregon Medical AssociationAustralian Medical AssociationScottish Committee of British Medical AssociationCanadian Medical Association(to name a few)In a responsible reply, all I ask is for an explination of yourstandpoint. Also, please submit all/any data to back up the claim that"Fourth, marijuana has been shown to worsen coordination in multiplesclerosis patients."Looking forward to your reply.-Dxxxxx x xxxxxxxx(greenfox) ;)
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