cannabisnews.com: Sen. Scott Brown Out of Joint
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Sen. Scott Brown Out of Joint
Posted by CN Staff on September 28, 2009 at 06:54:05 PT
By Jessica Van Sack 
Source: Boston Herald
Massachusetts -- Sen. Scott Brown wants to smoke out pot-carrying Massachusetts’ drivers with a $1,000 fine. The Wrentham Republican’s bill, which would fill a little-known loophole in the new marijuana decriminalization law passed by voters last year, is scheduled for a Beacon Hill hearing tomorrow before the Joint Committee on the Judiciary.“People who drive while smoking marijuana create a potential hazard,” Brown said. “Public safety is my number one concern. This is an area that police thought was severely lacking.”
Brown, who’s running for the U.S. Senate, filed the proposed legislation shortly after voters approved Question 2 in the November 2008 election, which wiped out criminal penalties for possessing less than an ounce of pot in the Bay State.“It’s a mess,” said Wellesley Deputy Police Chief Bill Brooks of the current law. “A minor with alcohol can be arrested, but not if he has pot.”Brooks called the disparity “incredible.”Brooks and his boss, Wellesley Police Chief Terrence Cunningham, president of the Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association, lobbied Brown to draft the bill to make the penalty for possessing pot in a car similar to that of driving with an open container of alcohol.Brown’s proposal would punish scofflaws found with pot in a car by yanking their driver’s license for up to 90 days.He said he is open to decreasing the proposed penalty to $500, brining it in line with the open container law.The Herald reported in July that Bay State stoners were brazenly lighting up in front of cops and refusing to pay fines instituted by the new pot law, which makes possessing one ounce or less of marijuana a civil penalty punishable with a $100 citation.Because the law has no requirement for offenders to show identification to cops, widespread defiance of the law has ensued and cops are powerless to enforce the law and to haul tokers into court.A Herald review found a staggering 83 percent of 415 tokers cited in Boston since the law took effect in January refused to pony up the $100 as of July.Newshawk: Sam AdamsSource: Boston Herald (MA)Author:   Jessica Van Sack Published: Monday, September 28, 2009Copyright: 2009 The Boston Herald, Inc.Website: http://www.bostonherald.com/URL: http://drugsense.org/url/uwvh4hhzContact: letterstoeditor bostonherald.comCannabisNews -- Cannabis Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/cannabis.shtml
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Comment #67 posted by konagold on September 30, 2009 at 17:46:24 PT
impairment and cannabis
 "without valid scientific evidence that this cannabis "impairment" even exists."AH you begin to see the method to my madnessof course the blood level to determine any real impairment would be so astoundingly high that no one would test impairedstudies exist showing minor impairment in centering travel in a lanebut studies also exist that 'cannabis effect' awareness causes compensation such the the cannabis driver is actually a safer driver who drives slower and allows greater distances in following vehicles in the same lane 
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Comment #66 posted by BGreen on September 30, 2009 at 15:08:15 PT
True, kanagold, except ...
The level of alcohol allowed in our system is determined by a very scientific method. The legal limit of .08 came about through testing and observation. People with levels under the old standard of .1 were failing the field sobriety tests developed to show impairment. This was allowing obviously impaired people to legally drive.The problem with allowing this type of standard to be applied to cannabis is that people who are under the influence of cannabis have no trouble passing the field sobriety tests that were developed to determine impairment.However, instead of admitting that cannabis partakers ARE NOT IMPAIRED, they argue that current testing methods aren't effective in detecting so-called cannabis "impairment," so any blood level set is highly arbitrary and without valid scientific evidence that this cannabis "impairment" even exists.Common sense would lead us to reasonably believe impairment is impairment, and to compare cannabis with alcohol in terms of impairment would only be a viable and rational comparison if those using cannabis failed the tests proven so effective in determining impairment caused by alcohol.One doesn't need to test the blood, sweat, piss or spit of someone to see that they are drunk because it's obvious.One doesn't need to test the blood, sweat, piss or spit of someone using a cell phone while driving to observe impaired and dysfunctional driving.If the only way to determine impairment by cannabis is by testing the blood, sweat, piss or spit of a person (or by the truly cowardice method of smell,) then I would argue that cannabis does not by itself cause impaired driving and should not be allowed to be treated as if it did.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #65 posted by konagold on September 30, 2009 at 14:43:11 PT
Cannabis and driving
In most states it is allowable to have some alcohol in ones system thus some impairment is allowable. In Hawaii that is a blood count of .08Laws regulating driving with cannabinoids in ones system are okay, if they are parallel to allowable impairment from alcoholOutright banning of either smoking, or driving under the influence, with out a determination of how much pot is impairing, is a violation of 14th amendment rights to due process and equal protection 
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Comment #64 posted by dankhank on September 30, 2009 at 08:29:09 PT
"paint"
very succinct ...OT "stilleto stoners" on MSNBC, soon
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Comment #63 posted by Paint with light on September 29, 2009 at 23:13:01 PT
comments
Legal like alcohol is a first step that the prohibs can understand.It is a concept born for common ground.A large portion of those who are against us consume alcohol or don't mind others consuming it.Wanting the same freedom connects easier than wanting unrestricted freedom.Total freedom is a long ways away, but attainable.Don't try to punish my driving for immeasurable impairment.Prescription and over the counter drugs can impair your driving skills more than cannabis.Even eating or drinking non-alcoholic beverages while driving can be more dangerous than smoking cannabis while driving.Basic Rule....If you feel impaired, don't drive.Think about the fact that it is okay to take a 15 year old, after one written test, and allow them to hurtle a ton or more of metal within feet of another hurtling mass of metal time after time no matter what the driving conditions.We trust adults to hurtle their tons of metal within feet of each other but not to consume or grow cannabis for medicine, products, or fun.Wow.Legal like alcohol.
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Comment #62 posted by Hope on September 29, 2009 at 12:24:16 PT
Museman
You were blessed with knowing what was important and doing it right while it was important.
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Comment #61 posted by museman on September 29, 2009 at 12:04:52 PT
Hope
That daughter of mine with the degree, languages amd globetrekking experience, was home schooled until she was 12. She chose to go to school. I guess that her success in achieving it (even though she acknowleges that the 'degree' and the many assumptions about the value of academia are pretty much useless to a conscientious being -except for the experience and info itself) is related to that fact of her choice in the matter.The things that a society believes, or are tricked into, forced, or programmed to believe begin first in the home. This economic BS society has succeeded quite well in seperating the foundation of real-life-on -earth "The Family" from the experience, and it was done primarily in the schools. Not all the definitions of 'schooling' have to do with learning and education, and it seems quite evident that the primary defintiion used by the staus quo has more to do with 'forcing the way' than educating and creating an intelligent, free thinking society.At the root is the teaching of the children. The current system is purely motivated by all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons. This is related to another of the disgusting diatribes we hear costantly about cannabis and 'the children.' The claim is supposedly about their 'future' and the 'health and safety' but in actuality it is about dumbing them down to be willing cogs in the machine that feeds, clothes, houses, and entertains the elite who evidence no real effort of their own except their inheritance."Schooling" is for slaves. Education is an option, opportunity, and a resource. Just another example of how the status quo likes to write its own definitions of terms to serve its own corrupt purposes.The church was the 'school' that did that quite effectively for millennia, but then there was this country called the USA that tried to get greater freedom for class control through a fake revolution (with real effects) and included in their 'language' of presumed liberties was 'religious freedom.' Once the fangs of the church were pulled, it took less than a century to begin to build the new status quo, and right about the same time that the government started assuming the right of Big Brother to interfere in almost every facet of our lives -coinciding with cannabis prohibition- 'compulsary schooling' was passed into law.The depth of corruption that cannabis prohibition is merely the tip of the iceberg of, goes so far, deep and wide into our history, and the incredible link of deliberate actions to create, perpetuate, and maintain the power of the ruling factions goes back to the fog of prehistory.LEGALIZE FREEDOM
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Comment #60 posted by museman on September 29, 2009 at 11:23:44 PT
Jo_
I knew we were ok, ...however..."Do not ignore their power, no matter how unfounded or unjustified, or we will find ourselves holding the short straw again.While I recognize the root of wisdom; "Be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves." and "Cast not your pearls before swine lest they should turn on you." -in the 'do not ignore their power' I however have stood there in the presence of their highest falshoods manifested the 'courts' of 'law,' persecuted, accused, and prosecuted for my beliefs which include the use of cannabis -that was their excuse for persecuting me- enough times to know where that is really at. You do not surrender if there is no guilt. Accepting any compromises of that is like being innocent and signing a confession under duress, in fact that is exactly what it is. "We have made grand gestures to freedom in the cannabis movement, but also shoot ourselves in the foot when we demand all or nothing!!!"Actually, I believe just the opposite. You see, once upon a time cannabis wasn't illegal. You could grow it, use it, buy it sell it, whatever. During all that time not one problem was ever associated with it. And then the ruling class saw that it was becoming a tool of empowerment and beginning to dissolve the imposed social barriers of race and segregation, they rightly saw where it was headed; the lifting of bondage from the collective consciousness, and rushed to make it illegal just in time for WW2. (wouldn't want all those 'american patriots' to stop fighting for a minute and think!)So any thing less than a complete return to a original unregulated, state of liberty in regards specificaly to cannabis is 'shooting ourselves' in the collective foot.In the meantime, there is a saying, some old roman stuff; "Discretion is the better part of Valor." but discretion does not mean 'surrender' or 'compromise' - it merely acknowleges the fact that one must be careful as they move about the world, moving and shaking things around.peace
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Comment #59 posted by Hope on September 29, 2009 at 11:07:19 PT
another life sacrificed to prohibition
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/sep/28/281031/suspect-dies-after-being-hit-taser-bradenton/Suspect dies after being hit with Taser in BradentonHow about this gets over with next week?Save a life.
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Comment #58 posted by Hope on September 29, 2009 at 11:04:56 PT
John Taylor Gatto
Not every video at YouTube will play for me. But I know about John Taylor Gatto and some of his thoughts and ideas on the school system. He's very smart, experienced, and makes a lot of sense.
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Comment #57 posted by museman on September 29, 2009 at 11:00:11 PT
#52 BTW
I came to the same conclusions as this book, years before I read it. It was referred to me by my eldest who has a masters degree in political science, speaks five languages and who at the young age of 30 something has literally seen the world.After all her 'academic' and life experience, her lifes goal at this point is to grow organic food and get as far away from the corrupted systems she has seen up close and personal from a global, and particularly national prespective.She has been listening to me rant these things since she was a teenager, and until she actually experienced them, she thought I was some kind of angry hippie fanatic. (Which I do resemble from time to time  :-)>I find myself in absolute agreement with the teacher who wrote the book, and admire his temerity at revealing the situation at the obvious detriment to his 'peers' and colleagues.
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Comment #56 posted by Hope on September 29, 2009 at 10:52:09 PT
Josephlacerenza  I totally get it!
"Legalizing, decriminalizing, regulating these are all terms used to COMMUNICATE with the status quo."
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Comment #55 posted by Hope on September 29, 2009 at 10:50:09 PT
Museman
I'm not so sure about what is happening with schools... but it looks like a herding together in institutions... for sure. It's not right. It needs to change or be a remembered relic. Home schooling seems to be working out well for many people. But I know that everyone can't do it and everyone can't afford a private school of their liking.I'll check out your link next run through here.:0)
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Comment #54 posted by josephlacerenza on September 29, 2009 at 10:49:20 PT
Museman
We have posted together before, and I respect your thoughts and, at times differing opinions. It makes me think more clearly about where I stand ;)Many have stated here before "sames as alcohol, tomatoes, etc", and I was going in that vein.We have also discussed REGULATING cannabis the same as alcohol.Setting guidelines are regulating. I do not see "common ground" as anything less than two apposing perspectives finding a compromise that satisfies both to some degree.Now if you want to speak of two sides so apposed that they can not see eye to eye, then the battle is already lost.Legalizing, decriminalizing, regulating these are all terms used to COMMUNICATE with the status quo.Do not ignore their power, no matter how unfounded or unjustified, or we will find ourselves holding the short straw again.We have made grand gestures to freedom in the cannabis movement, but also shoot ourselves in the foot when we demand all or nothing!!!For, a hen in the hand is better than two in the bush. I think that's how it goes!!We young are loosing touch with the past.
 
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Comment #53 posted by BGreen on September 29, 2009 at 10:48:01 PT
JoeCitizen and josephlacerenza
I wouldn't even have to say this if we were talking face to face but there is no anger or animosity or hard feelings from me towards either of you. You're every bit as welcomed here as anybody else and you're even more special because you choose to post here.Now, on with the debate! LOLThe Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #52 posted by museman on September 29, 2009 at 10:42:07 PT
Hope#46 -schools
Yes, that information is included as the so-called 'education' one is supposed to recieve, but you left put all the negative social engeineerung crap that is really the underlying agenda and purpose of the institutions.I offer up a reference, something that I rarely do, because I find that most 'published' works in the 20th and 21st century that deals with religion, society, and politics are propoganda, not informtion.This book is entitled "Dumbing us Down" I know from some of the posts that a few people here have read it.I looked for some net reference, and found somebody reading from it. The book explains the situation, and if you read it, you will surely understand whay I constantly refer to 'academics' as 'institutional programming.'
Dumbing US Down
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Comment #51 posted by Hope on September 29, 2009 at 10:41:44 PT
True.
From Museman's comment, "express and discuss ideas, share information, and labor towards truth and liberty, challenging opinions and ideas presented here, is part of the process of 'finding common ground."Finding common ground may be more about walking nearer each other, meeting in the middle, than compromising.And I totally understand that some of us are more easily "angst"ed than others. We all have many different reasons for having become sensitive to the iniquities, tragedies, and wrongs of these drug "Wars".Some of us have wounds that get kicked or pricked.As long as we don't "Lose it" and shut down... we are going for a better thing... an overall healing effect.We are souls afire... not cold or lukewarm. There's bound to be heat.
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Comment #50 posted by Hope on September 29, 2009 at 10:27:20 PT
BGreen comment 48
I'm finding myself inclined to agree with your very well stated opinion, BGreen.
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Comment #49 posted by museman on September 29, 2009 at 10:24:24 PT
Jo#33
Speaking for myself, I took aim at the message. If someone was standing too close to the target through personal attachment , its possible to get some collateral interpretation of hits.I feel that the reason why there is such a reaction to the 'message' is first of all, because it is full of the same assumptions and lack of complete information as the many prohibitionist excuses and justifications for cannabis prohibition."My point was only to come up with solutions to this new world we will soon find ourselves in."And somehow your 'solution' -which happens to look, feel, and sound very status quo accepting and oriented, is the only possible one?" find it hard to believe that the individuals here would take that asking, by another activist, to use discretion and caution as some type of capitulation to the powers that be!!!!"Perhaps there has been a misinterpretation somewhere, because I don't see that anywhere in the posts. Hmm. "How is it that now my activism is less because I want to see true change and that means finding common ground."First of all, if your 'activism' is real, how can specific challenges to your parameters of understanding somehow make what is real less real? Secondly, 'common ground' is found through common ideas that support common goals. Sometimes the only common ground for us is the end of prohibition, but the ideas of how to get there are still being worked out. Common ground is not some arbitrary, or engineered set of social groups, it is the place where we can all stand together. If for some reason, some of us cannot stomach the parameters you think, or would like to think as common ground, then it obviously is not as 'common' as you'd like. And if you truly wish to reach consensus and agreement with those of us who challenge your beliefs and assumptions then emotional reaction to the challenges only gets in the way of that -which I'm sure you can see. Now I don't know how personal this shot is intended to be;"If you want to give up nothing, do not be surprised when you have NOTHING!!!" but I took it to refer to not wanting to compromise with robbers and thieves to get back a piddly portion of what they stole.Personally, i feel I have 'given up plenty' for truth and liberty, and i challenge anyone to actually be willing to give up the misbegotten beliefs in a failed system that has ruined life for so many, and is currently in the process of wrecking the entire planet, because thats the only real 'giving up' that there is. The 'sacrifice' of allowing the status quo to engineer yet another 'more acceptable' form of prohibition, that fits within the parameters of middle class american compromise, is no sacrifice, its criminal negligence. Something to give up that would initiate sweeping change all across the board would be the belief and attachment to money and all the corrupt and failed systems attached to it.I was born with nothing. Everything I 'have' isn't even 'mine' because in a few years I will go back to whence i came, and not one piece of anything I've held in my hands, except the warmth and love of my family and friends is going to go with me. I gave up the material world at the age of 14. I had to learn how to 'be in the world but not of it.'I have no issues with people 'having' as long as it doesn't infringe upon my own access to necessary providence, or force me to 'have' what I don't want. Unfortunately the 'law' and society ruled by a handful of materialistic miscreants doesn't see past their own noses, and their narrow scope of their own corrupted parameters is a crime that will not be assuaged by giving them the compromises they want to maintain their power.Maybe some people need others to do their thinking for them, to take responsibility for their lives because they have been taught to do that by the institutions of the status quo, but there are independent thinkers out here who don't, and who find the stumbling halfway measures of a society that's bred to ignorance nothing but the very essence of barriers in the way of intelligent solution!"Medical marijuana IS a compromise!!!! It is not the end for the rest of us who want to consume cannabis without some type of medical condition."And because its a major step in redefining the common understandings of cannabis, and removing the prime justification of the DEA and the rest of the rotten bunch-namely their 'claim' that cannabis has no medicinal uses. That 'compromise' is merely a foot in the door. And a good move it was too.10 years ago I was in great health, grew my own and partook (discreetly) and illegally on a regular basis. I have been busted 3 times in my life, and did jail time twice.If you'd asked me then about the 'medical' properties of pot, I would have laughed and said what many cops and prohibtionists are saying now, that its just a scam to get it legal. However, a few years after that my health disappeared overnight, and I had to deal with constant pain 24/7, the efficacy of cannabis as a painreliever became immediately apparent.I am taking advantage of the medical laws in my state, and why shouldn't I? Do I feel like getting on my knees and worshipping the status quo and their 'ways and means' because of it? Not one bit. The battle has only begun, it is far from over. Everyone should have access to cannabis just like air, water, food, clothing, and shelter. Setting up special conditions so that only those who fit the acceptable profile have the 'privilege' is nothing but prohibition with a socially acceptable face.Look Jo, I was not offended by your words, personally, but I do strongly disagree. As I am on this post to express and discuss ideas, share information, and labor towards truth and liberty, challenging opinions and ideas presented here, is part of the process of 'finding common ground.'And as you can see, I am not the only 'activist' on this site that has differing opinions. And sometimes the very same folks and I do not agree. Do not make the assumption that a small handful of past posters has made -to take the challenges to words and ideas so personally to the point of flaming and angst. Please.REPEAL CANNABIS
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Comment #48 posted by BGreen on September 29, 2009 at 10:20:20 PT
A question for Joe Citizen
Here is a question about your three plant scenario.Nightshade, apple tree and cannabis. Which of these plants has an entire regulatory system in the human body that is exactly mimicked by this plant?Do we have an endo-apple tree system or an endo-scopalamine-atropine-hyoscyamine system?No, but we do have an endocannabinoid system.That's why I disagree with the statement made by josephlacerenza that it's a choice for us to use cannabis.Whether through the process of evolution or creation, there is a symbiotic relationship between humans and the cannabis plant that is not mere happenstance.If this relationship is the result of evolution then it was developed out of necessity. There was a need for this plant and humans to share these attributes.If it was a result of a loving Creator then it was still created out of a need for this unique relationship.Cannabis use is a matter of life and death to many people. Their bodies need the regulatory properties of cannabis. Depriving anybody of the life-sustaining properties of cannabis is a crime against humanity and of nature.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #47 posted by Hope on September 29, 2009 at 10:10:12 PT
Josephlacerenza, Herbdoc, Bgreen, Museman,
JoeCitizen and all.Now that's discussion! I love it.Carry on.
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Comment #46 posted by Hope on September 29, 2009 at 10:06:27 PT
Schools
Teach how to prepare foods. We have to have food to live on. Teach them about nutrition. Teach them health and about the grooming business... barbers, hairdressers and people groomers. Teach them about animals and jobs that deal with animals. Teach them about building things. Design. Engineering. Production. Distribution. Teach them about fuels and the economy. Teach them how to do things. Teach them about safety. Teach them about cars. Teach them sciences. Teach them music and let them sing. Teach them HISTORY.
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Comment #45 posted by herbdoc215 on September 29, 2009 at 10:01:20 PT
Fanatics?It sounds like a few folks should read...
Plato's allegory of the cave! You see the problem here is Some of us have actually been out of the cave...and when we come back to free the rest of you, you want to argue over what the shadows on the wall are saying! LEO and "prison industry" will do anything to protect their power over your lives/wallets, they have sent agent provocateurs on almost all of us which has made many very cynical about "compromise"...LEO will tell any lie or worse spin sophist bs that sounds so reasonable until it's examined under the light, all to protect their money and power. Disagreements are fine but splintering the group to conquer has been the order of the day so far and most people in our culture know the deal! The "Vichy" ABC compromise 'reform' groups are fixing to be seeking a real job after legalization and it scares the crap out of them!  peace, steve   
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Comment #44 posted by BGreen on September 29, 2009 at 09:59:20 PT
What a load of crap, JoeCitizen
josephlacerenza wasn't treated any way except that some of us disagreed with him. Stop with the whiny crap. If you want to have a discussion go ahead. If you want to argue with us go ahead. If you want us to completely agree with everything you say (no matter our belief system fostered and matured through my 46 years and museman a little longer) just because you say so, get ready for more frustration.Punish people for their actions, NOT because of what they've ingested, especially since, as museman pointed out, what impairment is there if they can't even observe or determine impairment outside of finding or smelling cannabis?I'll go up against anybody anytime as far as my driving skills are concerned. You ignore the simple fact that the vast majority of wrecks are caused by so-called sober drivers. Not a lick of any substance in their body. They just absolutely suck at their driving skills (or lack of) and yet they will always be free to live their lives.Bullhockey!This isn't Fox news where we lie and claim to be "fair and balanced." I'm dealing with the truth as I see it. I'll debate it, I'll argue it, but I won't back down just because people complain I'm being irrational.I'll tell you a little about my irrational thought process.I tested at a genius IQ level when I was in college and I was under the influence of cannabis at the time and had used daily for many years previously.I attended racing school and, even though I was under the influence of cannabis at the time, I was the best student in the class. I was better than some who had raced for years and was praised by the professionals.I'm really sorry if it puts anybodies panties in a wad just because I won't consent to being arbitrarily deemed intoxicated and a danger.It really steams my clams to have people regurgitate propaganda as facts, even when it comes from CNews posters. This "driving is a privilege" nonsense is exactly that ... nonsense!I picked up some pamphlets at the MO license bureau to help prove my point.Older drivers mimic the deleterious effects of alcohol but their driving privilege is considered a right. They aren't arrested for their dangerous diminished driving skills, they're taught how to recognize and adjust their driving accordingly. There are no laws requiring even the oldest drivers to be retested unless they fail to renew their license on time.The same nonsense goes for prescription drugs. I know for a fact that prescription drugs can be highly debilitating. My mom has been hooked on Vicodin thanks to her drug pusher doctor and she still drives. Mrs. Green and I made the mistake of riding with her and were scared to death. However, it's perfectly legal for her to be on the road.You can have your pity party because we have a mind of our own but keep the victim mentality out of here just because we don't happen to agree with everything you say.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #43 posted by Hope on September 29, 2009 at 09:56:29 PT
Living in the era of the Prohibitionists
From first story: "In an effort to combat drug-related crime, there will be three additional law enforcement officers in the county patrolling major transportation highways for drug traffickers and drug related crime."Same community, same front page, second article: "“Closing St. Helen is probably the biggest budget item we can cut that would have the least effect on students,” he said at that time. “Unless things drastically change, we’re looking at closing St. Helen, not this year, but the year after this.”"Thank you, Ekim.School wise... I really, personally, think that we should be trying smaller schools instead of these huge consolidations. I think we should be moving away from sports competitions to scholastic competitions about math, spelling, reading, writing and being able to develop talents and help them learn how make a living and get along with other people and the earth, and contribute to a better world.They should be having recesses and breaks, too... while I'm thinking about it. That's not right to pen kids up rigidly for hours and hours and force some of them to take drugs that makes them more able to tolerate the child abuse by the school system.
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Comment #42 posted by FoM on September 29, 2009 at 09:21:05 PT
Silence is Golden
I like to sit somethings totally out. I'm kidding but these are times of change and different folks have different ideas on how the change will come. I do a lot of reading but not a lot of talking right now. I'm just taking it all in for the time being.
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Comment #41 posted by ekim on September 29, 2009 at 09:19:32 PT
one on more leos and one on closing a school
http://www.michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/node/9193Two front page articles from the Roscommon 'Herald News'
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Comment #40 posted by Hope on September 29, 2009 at 09:12:18 PT
Josephlacerenza and JoeCitizen
No offense here! Kind of giggly... but no offense.Everybody has their point of view and everyone's point of view has value, as far as I'm concerned. I'm interested in all of it.I may not agree with all of it or even fully understand all of it... but it matters... because all of you and your thoughts and ideas on it all matter.But I do like horses.
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Comment #39 posted by JoeCitizen on September 29, 2009 at 09:00:00 PT
josephlacerenza, I'm with you
josephlacerenza, I understand what you are saying, and I sympathize with the response you have endured.I've tried in the past to post balanced statements here, regarding either legal compromises, or possible negatives of cannabis use. People here do NOT want to hear about those things.Both sides of the issue have fanatics, and the pro-cannabis sides' fanatics tend to gather at pages like this one (but I am NOT saying everyone who reads this page is a fanatic!)Taking a balanced view (to me) doesn't me believing each side equally. I am 95-98% in agreement with pro-cannabis/anti-prohibition forces. But to some here, unless you agree with them 110%, you're an enemy.It amuses me when people here make semi-religious statements like "There is no harm in it [cannabis]."Well, there's no harm in most things until you interact with them. Then there's a range of results that may or may not harm you.If I come upon a cannabis plant, a deadly nightshade plant, and an apple tree all growing in the ground, they are utterly harmless to me if I do not interact with them.If I interact with the deadly nightshade plant in most ways, it will harm me. The leaves, berries, and roots of that plant are all tremendously poisonous. Eating them will sicken or kill you quickly, even handling them excessively is not good for you.I can interact with the apple tree in many ways that are harmless or helpful. But if I eat enough of the appleseeds, I will die from them (they contain cyanide.) If I climb up in the branches and fall on my head or neck, I could die. If I cut off a branch or the main trunk and make a spear or a gibbet out of it, I could die (or kill someone else with them.)Most ways I could interact with the cannabis plant are harmless. But if I eat any part other than the seeds without cooking it, it will make me sick to my stomach. If I take the resin and prepare it into hash oil, I could smoke or eat enough to become completely disoriented and highly paranoid, possibly enough to hurt someone else or run out into traffic.  I could take the fibers of the plant , weave them into a rope, tie a noose out of it, and hang myself (or someone else.)Is the harm people find in these things in the plants, or in the people? Many useful medicines used to be made from nightshade plants, and we eat the fruits of some of them quite happily (tomatoes.) Even a deadly plant can help. And even a friendly plant, like cannabis, can harm.Some here will never, ever admit to that. Which is why I label them as fanatics.Joe Citizen
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Comment #38 posted by FoM on September 29, 2009 at 08:59:26 PT
Hope
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston ChurchillThank you.
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Comment #37 posted by FoM on September 29, 2009 at 08:51:22 PT
Hope
Cool video.
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Comment #36 posted by Hope on September 29, 2009 at 08:48:44 PT
Choose one and get after it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGij6HVTEf4&NR=1
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Comment #35 posted by Hope on September 29, 2009 at 08:44:52 PT
When it's really early.... don't spill the coffee!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--rHR4VMyYw&feature=related
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Comment #34 posted by Hope on September 29, 2009 at 08:34:58 PT
Love you, Joe!
How I got ready to post on C-News this morning.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-mZe2b_JeM&feature=fvw
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Comment #33 posted by josephlacerenza on September 29, 2009 at 07:57:53 PT
MY HIGH HORSE
I hope no one took offense to my comments yesterday.But, I heard only more of the same. KILL the messenger!!!My point was only to come up with solutions to this new world we will soon find ourselves in.I find it hard to believe that the individuals here would take that asking, by another activist, to use discretion and caution as some type of capitulation to the powers that be!!!!How is it that now my activism is less because I want to see true change and that means finding common ground.If you want to give up nothing, do not be surprised when you have NOTHING!!!Medical marijuana IS a compromise!!!! It is not the end for the rest of us who want to consume cannabis without some type of medical condition.Once again, the argument, with me, is well founded that cannabis intoxication is a safer mind altering substance. But, that argument gets US no closer to legalizing the great herb!!!!! 
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Comment #32 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on September 29, 2009 at 01:52:44 PT
Give me a break.
"...it is never safe to operate a motor vehicle under the influence of ANYTHING!!!"Not even my Mama's love?So, it's better to be asleep at the wheel, rather than drive under the influence of caffeine?Absolute statements tend to be absolute nonsense.
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Comment #31 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on September 29, 2009 at 01:42:58 PT
If they can't discern it, how is it dangerous?
"...the lack of ability of the police to discern if someone is under the influence of THC..."If you can pass a field sobriety test, what difference does it make what is in your breath, pee, or blood?If the police can't discern whether you are under the "influence" of something, then you aren't.I think the police should focus on people who obviously shouldn't be driving for whatever reason.And what is really ridiculous is that no matter how reckless some straight folks drive, they'll only get a ticket, if that, and get to go on there merry reckless way.It's still reckless driving even if you're not under the influence of anything but being in a big f-ing hurry, isn't it?But the most ridiculous idea here is that what is in your pocket, glove compartment, or back seat has anything to do with your driving.
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Comment #30 posted by museman on September 28, 2009 at 23:29:04 PT
DUI
Driving while Up IN it...."Perhaps there are some people that are not impaired by being under the influence of THC, but that cannot be how the standard is set for everyone."It is the testimony of many people that a moderate useage of cannabis -determined by ones own (assumedly intelligent)preferences- actually prevents road rage, and the usual stresses and anxieties that lead to much of the actual unsafe conditions on the road. A driver high on cannabis pays more attention, and is more sense aware of the larger environment, than the usual, 'sober' condition considered to be the acceptable 'standard' of driver awareness. The only demonstrable studies on the subject I know of reported that the only measurable effect was a 'possible' slight decrease in reaction time, that considering the added effect of the expanded awareness and the general tendency to travel slower, rather than faster more than cancelled that out.As far as 'standards' go, does this concept determine the parameters of said 'standard;'"If marijuana is to be legalized for recreational use, then we need to accept, and even embrace our responsibility to make certain everyone that partakes in it's use do so without increasing their chances of potentially causing harm to others."?YOU may need to EMBRACE and ACCEPT YOUR responsibility to make certain that what YOU do and partake in is done without increasing YOUR chance of potentially causing harm to others, but you sure as hell aren't going to dictate that status-quo-who's-got-the-dollar assumption of my possible future guilt or negligence through some kind of legal 'standard' to me or any of the other humanity outlawed by prohibition -not without a fight.The idea of privilege vs right is as much a part of this battle of personal liberties as any of them, and is at the crux of the issue of false comparisons of contrived inventions of values of race, breeding, and propriety -the very roots of corruption that got us here in the first place.Who the f--k believes they are somehow superior in their knowledge of me? How dare anyone presume to tell me how I should live my life? I was born and raised as a free man, and the fact that accepting my inherent Ya-given RIGHT to all that Providence and Creation has to offer -without giving the do-nothing middle-men anything, other than pity and charity for their true lack of any redeemable value- has made me an outlaw up til now, only enhances my passion and adamancy.Because the status quo institutional mind-set is convinced that everyone but themselves is some kind of 'sub-intelligent' -and the masses subconsciously believe it to the point of evolving whole street peasant cultures to prove it, there must therefore be some established kind of 'standard' that projects :A. Everyone(except the special elite) Is "Guilty until proven innocent."B. Not responsibile for their own actions, and therefore need some 'Big Brother' (cops, lawyers, politicians, insurance companies, bankers, etc, etc.)C. Equality is a 'privilege' not a right.Sooner or later this all must end. I vote for sooner.LEGALIZE FREEDOM
What (you gonna do)About Me?
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Comment #29 posted by hotrodtommy on September 28, 2009 at 21:20:03 PT:
DUI
In my view, the bottom line is; operating a motor vehicle is a privilege, that comes with serious responsibilities. Driving under the influence of any substance that impairs ones ability to do so to the best of their ability cannot be allowed. Other people are at risk when this occurs. Perhaps there are some people that are not impaired by being under the influence of THC, but that cannot be how the standard is set for everyone. The current problem as I see it, is the lack of ability of the police to discern if someone is under the influence of THC, and to what extent. Possessing cannabis in a motor vehicle cannot be grounds for an 'open container' type of crime. An accurate test for determining if someone is high, needs to be the criteria for determining if a law has been broken. If marijuana is to be legalized for recreational use, then we need to accept, and even embrace our responsibility to make certain everyone that partakes in it's use do so without increasing their chances of potentially causing harm to others. 
Marijuana prohibition is absurd. We still live in a society that has a 'reefer madness' mentality, and we need to change that. In my view, by being more responsible in how we act while using it, can do a lot of good in this fight for legalization.
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Comment #28 posted by Hope on September 28, 2009 at 20:43:53 PT
Preaching and tall horses?
:0)Had all I can handle tonight. Going to bed thinking about preachers on high horses. Thoroughbreds?Lol!Keep it up. We're rolling.
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Comment #27 posted by Hope on September 28, 2009 at 20:37:38 PT
Looking around
http://www.fcda.org/driving.htmEarlier on... from Observer at http://cannabisnews.com/news/1/thread1002.shtmlCannabis/Driving StudiesUK: Cannabis May Make You A Safer Driver (2000)
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00/n1161/a02.htmlUniversity Of Toronto Study Shows Marijuana Not A Factor In Driving Accidents (1999)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases\1999\03\990325110700.htmAustralia: Cannabis Crash Risk Less: Study (1998)
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v98/n945/a08.htmlAustralia: Study Goes to Pot (1998)
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v98/n947/a06.htmlThere's more but more recent stuff is all about stuies associating it with risky behaviors in young males. Not what I'm looking for about actually effecting just people's driving ability. Will look some more if I get a chance tomorrow.Goodnight.
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Comment #26 posted by museman on September 28, 2009 at 20:21:27 PT
Cannabis
is equal to nothing.It is unique amongst all the plants we know of. Its uses are beyond the scope and variety of any other.There is no harm in it.Humanity, on the other hand, coming in many shapes, colors, sizes, angles, attitudes, and convictions, has a multitude of definitions and labels of the various levels and categories of 'harm' that can be judged, viewed, applauded, booed, suffered, allowed, glorified, justified and legislated. It is true, though it has yet to be firmly established as common knowledge amongst us, that the question of 'worth' and 'value' as most honestly and sincerely applied to each and every human being-and the use of their time, is moot. The concept of human equality is not broken down into the perception of determined factions, compared to models and future projections, it is fundamental understanding on the path to Solution. That understanding is that to each and every one of us our personified existence cannot be qualitatively, or quantitatively compared. It is uniquely our own, and all attempts to make 'one size fit all' are sad mockeries of innovation.Cannabis Prohibition is a prohibition of perspectives, opinions, and viewpoints that do not reflect the manipulated mainstream of popular or apparently popular social agreements and contracts concerning time, labor, adequate compensation, and respect. The fact that all experienced, used, expended time, of every EQUAL and deserving humans walking together on this planet is not to be differentiated, or raised above anothers is inherent -as denial- in the fears, intentions, beliefs, and corruptions in the language, application, enforcement, and continued discriminate negative actions against the creed of cannabis users, -who are separated only by the attitude of the opposed- by all 'laws' prohibiting and criminalizing the USERS of cannabis.Prohibition is laws against those who think and act outside the proscribed boxes of the status quo. Racist, and fascist.I must be 'preaching' from my 'high horse' -too high for my own good obviously, because I surely do not know better than Street King Cop, or Jo Blo Judge, or some other 'expert' who wrote a book nobody ever read, about how i should lead my own life. And my how the fear is so great of the unknown, that it is just ASSUMED that because our Hive-like society is hell-bent to burn that oil in hurtling metal boxes to the point one must accomodate them somehow just to get on in the world, that I, or anyone else is unaware -particularly in a larger state of awareness brought on by intelligent cannabis use- of the effects of hurtling hunks of metal against unyielding flesh?All the fears of prohibtionists are illusion. We should not gratify them, or qualify them with the aquiescence that in the past has allowed their small factions of corrupt humanity ro rule the world.All justifications, and constructed reasoning for the persecution of anyone, young or old, of any race or creed, in any way -including fines, fees, imprisonment, 'job' discrimination, student financing, licenses made exclusive, or any other impingement, and infringement upon the people, for their use, posession, or intended use or posession is PROHIBITION. Support for any part of that is ALLOWING IT TO CONTINUE.END CANNABIS APARTHEID
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Comment #25 posted by Hope on September 28, 2009 at 19:48:02 PT
Marc Emery 
doesn't need to be in prison and they shouldn't be taking our hard earned tax money to do that to him. I resent it. It's wrong and it's stupid and it's expensive.And I think we need to drag out the cannabis and driving studies again. It's time again. Just because we've been over them and waved them around many times doesn't mean we don't need to bring them out again and waive them around again... some more. Not everyone has read them. Not everyone has heard of them and there are more new people interested in this subject showing up all the time.
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Comment #24 posted by rchandar on September 28, 2009 at 19:10:00 PT:
Emery
This one still rankles in many's imagination. I never understood sentencing people for seeds; it seems contrary to any real criminal justice process to prosecute people for the idea of committing a "crime." They really should overturn the case and let the guy go free.--rchandar
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Comment #23 posted by FoM on September 28, 2009 at 18:56:21 PT
Marc Emery: Political Prisoner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuTRBHa-6EM
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Comment #22 posted by John Tyler on September 28, 2009 at 18:20:03 PT
Brown, who’s running for the U.S. Senate
I hope the good people of Massachusetts see what kind of person State Sen. Scott Brown is and choose not to elect him to the U.S. Senate. 
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Comment #21 posted by josephlacerenza on September 28, 2009 at 18:09:37 PT
Hemp World
Thanks,
I have posted here for a little. I need to be clear-er! But, there are few things I HATE, cannabis prohibition is one, than to be miss understood. The reason is, its nobody's fault BUT MY OWN!!!!! I have no scapegoat:)So, to clear it up, I feel it is only rational, as a consumer of intoxicants, that one takes every care to make sure that the actions of his/her/its own being does not negatively effect someone else.That is why decisions are hard to make, those unforeseen consequences. 
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Comment #20 posted by BGreen on September 28, 2009 at 17:49:58 PT
josephlacerenza
I'm not accustomed, after over 9 years of posting here at CNews, to people thinking I have no real plan or anything useful to offer to the discussion. Trust me, I've got a helluva lot more to offer than I have time to type it out.Mrs. Green and I walk three miles a night and that's where I had to go.After 34 years of living through this hell, I don't feel I have to concede or give them anything. They've wanted me dead for my entire adult life. Screw them.I totally agree with you about the safety of the general public, on the road and elsewhere. What I disagree with 100% is the ideology that ANYBODY who has consumed ANY Cannabis is a threat. That's utter nonsense, we all know that and we don't have to admit otherwise.I think that ANYBODY who causes a wreck that kills or seriously injures someone should be punished. As it currently stands, the only people held criminally responsible for killing people are people with alcohol, illegal pharmaceuticals or cannabis in their blood. To accept cannabis to be allowed to be the sole determinate as to whether someone is held responsible for taking an innocent life is wrong and totally stupid, and it diminishes the worth of all of the people killed every day by people who, although they piss clean, still snuffed out the life of somebody's father, mother, sister, brother, husband, wife, son, daughter, friend, acquaintance, etc.I'm not going to let that continue.In the past three days in Missouri, two different 63-year-old men riding Harley Davidson motorcycles have been run over and killed by 17 and 18-year-old kids. They will have killed with impunity UNLESS they had smoked a joint or had a drink of booze, and then they will be charged with voluntary manslaughter.That's BS and we all know it.Tonight as we drove to walk (LOL) a pickup did an illegal and dangerous u-turn right in front of a MO State Highway Patrol car but, because it was just a "good ol' boy" and not a possible pot smoker, he wasn't pulled over.The cops want these laws, just like the seat belt laws, just so they can have a legal reason to pull over more people they want to pull over. If you smell like cannabis you will be charged with DUI regardless of obvious impairment.That's BS and we all know it.In our state, they can seize your vehicle for repeated DUI's, so if they can easily charge people for impaired driving for just a smell then they can steal a whole lot of stuff.If furthering our cause means enabling the cops to continue to have absolute control over our lives, then I quit. I'll go into hiding because that kind of freedom is only an illusion.Cheers!The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #19 posted by HempWorld on September 28, 2009 at 16:00:30 PT
josephlacerenza
Thanks for clearing that up Joe, I wasn't sure which side you were on, anymore ...By the way, all the tests done by the US Government on cannabis use and driving have indicated and concluded that using cannabis while driving does not lead to impairment.Obviously a lot of people (read cops) don't want you to have cannabis at all and in this case above, the police are lobbying to make law? This is highly inappropriate but in the US it is business as usual.
Legalize All Drugs!
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Comment #18 posted by josephlacerenza on September 28, 2009 at 15:53:01 PT
Another Option
Why not make the suggestion that as long as the cannabis is out of the reach of the driver, like an opened bottle of wine in the trunk after a trip to the restaurant, then there is no issue with an "open container". Let us come up with solutions, and not arguments for or against. Anyone can argue for or against a point, but it is the real art of discussion to come up with solutions to a problem that brings, as close as possible, both side to the negotiation table. This distinguishes a thinker from a non-thinker!!!
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Comment #17 posted by josephlacerenza on September 28, 2009 at 15:06:55 PT
Equal W/ Alcohol
Some good points are being made, but the real issue is how best to treat cannabis and still get the support we need to further the cause. It does US no service to treat our use and or abuse as a cause, with regards to having cannabis in our cars.Yes, 1000's drive under the influence of srcipts, but it does not make it any more sane to argue that cannabis is safe so there....We need to be pushing for a better understanding of individual right that DO NOT infringe on others rights. If a person gets behind the wheel of a car and kills my son or daughter, under the influence of ANY kind, then their FREEDOMS have taken the freedoms of my loved ones.We need to look for solutions and not sit on our HIGH horses and preach down to the ones who may not agree with us. It is our duty to be BIGGER than that!!!!We are the ones asking, no demanding our right to consume our plant of CHOICE. That is the key, it is a choice we make to partake in cannabis. WE are not like the African American, or the homosexual who does not have a choice. We may not like the other options given to us, this of course excludes those who have a medical necessity, but we do have a choice.Just like we have the choice to stand against said atrocities, or sit on the couch and smoke instead. Sometimes the little steps are the hardest, because we are sometimes consumed with the end result.And make no mistake, for me, that end is the complete repeal of these egregious cannabis laws!!!! 
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Comment #16 posted by FoM on September 28, 2009 at 13:15:01 PT
Off Topic: Farm-Aid St. Louis, Missouri Live
DirecTV's The 101 Network Lines Up Farm Aid Oct. 4Satellite Provider's Entertainment Channel Will Air Charity Event In HDDirecTV's The 101 Network will be the exclusive home for Farm Aid for the second straight year.The show, headlined Oct. 4 by Farm Aid board members Willie Nelson, Neil Young, John at the Verizon Wireless Amphitheater in Maryland Heights, Mo., will air live and in high-definition on DirecTV's exclusive entertainment network. The charity event also will feature Jason Mraz, Wilco, Jamey Johnson and Phosphorescent, plus other acts to be announced.The six-hour broadcast will be filmed entirely in the enhanced format and air in 5.1 surround sound. Like last year, DirecTV will create four original one-hour specials featuring performances from Farm Aid 2009, which will air on The 101 Network as part of the DirecTV Concert Series."We are delighted to be a part of Farm Aid 2009 and once again offer our viewers front row seats to this year's benefit concert," said Patty Ishimoto, vice president of DirecTV Entertainment and general manager of The 101 Network, in a statement. "Farm Aid 2009 is an important part of our music repertoire on The 101 Network, as we bring viewers exclusive concert events that can't be seen anywhere else, compliments of DirecTV."The concert event, will celebrate music, family farmers and good food, and will again feature Homegrown concessions: family-farm identified, local and organic foods. Farm Aid is a nonprofit organization that has raised nearly $36 million to promote a strong and resilient family farm system of agriculture.URL: http://www.multichannel.com/article/338978-DirecTV_s_The_101_Network_Lines_Up_Farm_Aid_Oct_4.php
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Comment #15 posted by ekim on September 28, 2009 at 12:48:23 PT
update on MMJ rally in Lansing MI
http://www.medicalmarijuanafreedommarch.com/
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Comment #14 posted by FoM on September 28, 2009 at 12:39:43 PT
Canada's 'Prince of Pot' Taken Into Custody
By Jeremy Hainsworth, Associated Press WriterSeptember 27, 2009Vancouver, British Columbia -- Canada's so-called Prince of Pot is now in jail awaiting extradition to the United States for selling marijuana seeds. Marc Emery has sold millions of marijuana seeds around the world by mail over the past decade. In doing so, he has drawn the attention of U.S. drug officials, who want him extradited to Seattle. Emery has agreed to plead guilty in Seattle to one count of marijuana distribution in exchange for dismissal of all other counts, and the U.S. District Attorney is pressing for a sentence of five to eight years in a U.S. prison. Emery will plead guilty in a Seattle court at a later date. Emery will be extradited after Canada's justice minister signs a surrender order.Copyright: 2009 Associated PressURL: http://www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_13438184
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Comment #13 posted by BGreen on September 28, 2009 at 12:14:56 PT
josephlacerenza
As long as hundreds of thousands Americans are allowed to consume as many prescription drugs as they want and get behind the wheel, your version of "fair" concerning cannabis is unfair and irrational.No punishment for use or possession of cannabis. Punishment for committing an actual crime, whether or not cannabis has been used or is possessed.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #12 posted by ekim on September 28, 2009 at 12:11:52 PT
Howard on the Hill
Howard on the Hill Stories from the week of September 25, 2009 Small steps: My third appearance at the annual Congressional Black Caucus three day conference filled my week. Wearing the COP shirt over my dress shirt, tie and largest cowboy hat, I was able to engage many in conversations. I am thrilled to report that for the first time, a majority of the 50 odd conversations I had ended with the person agreeing with the COP position: i.e. legalize/regulate/tax.  Be afraid, be very afraid:  stopping by the Dept. of Justice booth at the CBC, I picked up their pamphlet on marijuana. It states that marijuana use causes cancer…and (love this)…”It has not yet been proven that using marijuana leads to other drugs, but….” LOL. Our government has tried for 40 years to prove a causal link between marijuana use and harder drugs, without success.  Apparently they are still spending tax dollars trying to prove it. Sweetest sound to your ear:  I read once that hearing your name generates the greatest pleasure of any words spoken.  At the CBC conference I was invited to be a guest on the Bev Smith radio show out of Pittsburgh, PA. We had great 30 minute chat. Towards the end, on the air, Bev said, “We need to legalize all drugs.”  To this old cowboys’ ears, THOSE are the sweetest words I can hear. PS – the COP website is complete: please take a look at: www.CitizensOpposingProhibition.org Consider being a member of COP. Add your voice to those agree that Modern Prohibition/War on Drugs is the most destructive, dysfunctional and immoral policy since slavery & Jim Crow. Howard Officer Howard Wooldridge (retired)Drug Policy Specialist, COP - www.CitizensOpposingProhibition.orgWashington, DC817-975-1110 Cellhoward citizensopposingprohibition.org Citizens Opposing Prohibition - Become a MemberPO Box 772Buckeystown, MD 21717-0772
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Comment #11 posted by BGreen on September 28, 2009 at 12:06:02 PT
josephlacerenza
Cannabis should be treated the same as alcohol when cannabis kills over 100,000 Americans each year. Until then, equal or harsher punishment for cannabis over alcohol is barbaric.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #10 posted by Hope on September 28, 2009 at 11:44:56 PT
Hmmm... lots of comments on this article
over at The Boston Herald.Lots of people, many of them, voters, I'm sure, not very pleased with Brown.Seems more like he's into 'representing' the authorities than the will of the citizens... the people... in general.Beware of those with an apparent zealous taste for punishing and controlling others with threats of said punishment.
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Comment #9 posted by Sam Adams on September 28, 2009 at 09:49:39 PT
this proposal
the reason for this proposal is transparent - it's an attempt to un-do Question 2 and decrim.Any lawyer will tell you that 80% or more of cananbis violations around here are associated with motor vehicle stops.  Before decrim that is where the vast majority of MJ arrests occurred.So cranking the penalties up for car possession basically repeals about 75% of the new decrim law for LEO
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Comment #8 posted by Sam Adams on September 28, 2009 at 09:47:31 PT
driving
first of all, there is already a $100 fine for cannabis if the cops catch you with it in your car, whether it's being carried or smoked.2nd, if you're smoking it in the car, you can be arrested and convicted of DUI - legally this is a slam-dunk for LEO3rd, "open container" laws are totally un-constitutional and wrong. it applies to passengers! Also, why should someone drinking 1 beer on the way home be punished any more than someone drinking coffee?  
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Comment #7 posted by museman on September 28, 2009 at 09:42:30 PT
smoking while driving
Tho I have no doubt that there are folks who cannot handle driving under the influence of coffee as well as cell-phones, makeup mirrors, alcohol and cannabis, is it fair to those who can?Nope, no fairness exists within any 'law.'For 23 years I drove thousands of miles across this country -without a drivers license, insurance, or even registration half the time. And I often smoked while doing it.#of accidents = 0# of 'moving violations' = 1 (I ran a stop sign in front of a cop -and I wasn't high at the time)# of meaningless citations for not having a DL about 6.It is always a good idea for discretion when it comes to cannabis, but advocating the stances of status quo assumptions concerning it, granting concessions just for the sake of the compromise, is just f..d up in my mind.The idea of a smoking car as Hope suggests is a great one for those who have land and property, which leaves many without options.Here in Oregon, BTW, it is legal to carry up to one pound in your possession with a card. Some states got the picture better than others. (is still illegal to smoke and drive of course)Making any kind of concessions to the ones who uphold cannabis apartheid is just non productive in the long run. I know we have to accept whatever compromises get us closer to the goal of true liberty, but acting like we believe in any of the justifiers of prohibition as handed out by cops, lawyers, DAs, judges, and politicians will not help us, it will only serve to perpetuate their lies and deceptions into the next generation.REPEAL PROHIBITION
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Comment #6 posted by Hope on September 28, 2009 at 09:14:03 PT
It's twice the fine for an open container 
of alcohol.Since most pot doesn't come in a government tax sealed package... I guess there needs to be some major amendments to Brown's bill, if there is to be any consideration of the doubtful "adjustment" he is sponsoring. What about just carrying your package? Possessing? Possessing isn't the same as smoking. If it's the possessing part, then this bill really is meant to reverse the democratic vote that took place in Massachusetts.People need to lay down the idea that it's fun to smoke in the car or, if they just grieve beyond belief about not smoking in the car... create a fancy forever parked car, recycle an old VW... in concrete in the backyard decor for smoke outs. The smoking car. Paint a Peace Sign on it. Plant and paint flowers on it. Put a barbecue in one of the hatches. Wire it for sound and light, or heat and air conditioning. Plant bushes around it if you like to smoke in the car in the boonies.Smokin!There's nothing wrong with being polite about the "Public" and reasonably addressing and not ignoring someone else's fears... no matter how outlandish they are. Smoking in your car makes it smell of cannabis, too. That's not really all that great an idea. A car that you drive or have parked outside is pretty public, actually and can be subject to close examination by authorities... as we know.
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Comment #5 posted by museman on September 28, 2009 at 09:11:44 PT
#2_
"We keep asking for equal with alcohol, well that is right in line with a person who has an open container."And just who is that 'we' you're talking about? A handful of people.This, in my mind surely illustrates one of the myriads of reasons why it shouldn't be equated with alcohol in any way.If it had anything to do with the real health, safety, and welfare of the public, the damn laws would have never been there in the first place.This is about false power and authority, and the fees and fines that township rulers can extort from their populace, and revenge at those who dethroned their republican king in the last election.Maybe for those who are alcoholically inclined, smoking, or possession of pot might be considered somehow similar to an 'open container' but for those of us who don't drink, or only drink occasionally the idea is ludicrous. Comparing cannabis to alcohol is like comparing a xtians with cannibals - they both have issues, but one you can live with, the other literally kills.The assumptions that are made towards cannabis by the prohibitionist community should never be so readily accepted as some kind of common fact.When the 'law' starts showing signs of respect for the common man, I will start showing signs of respect for it, otherwise, all the justifications (false and otherwise) are meaningless to me, as they should be to all true seekers of liberty and justice.The one true solution:REPEAL PROHIBIITION
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Comment #4 posted by ripit on September 28, 2009 at 08:44:44 PT:
this still comes 
down to if you are impaired while driving doesn't it? since cannabis isn't sealed in cans or bottles with shrink wrapped seals,just having it would be subject to fines?
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Comment #3 posted by tintala on September 28, 2009 at 08:43:23 PT:
WHAT DON"T THEY GET?
Pot heads don't shoot up pot while driving, all we want is to compare it to alcohol(which it aint) but , if your caught with a 1/5th of JACK DANIELS, aint no bigggggggie!>?? what the hell, they are still trying to indoctrinate that cannabis is the BIG EVIL.
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Comment #2 posted by josephlacerenza on September 28, 2009 at 07:57:00 PT
I do not
Want to seem as if I am aligning with the LEOs, but I see no problem with giving fines for having the herb with you in the car, like with an open container. We keep asking for equal with alcohol, well that is right in line with a person who has an open container.We, as proponents of cannabis law reform, can argue that it is SAFER to drive under the influence of cannabis, but the point is it is never safe to operate a motor vehicle under the influence of ANYTHING!!! This is ground I can give to the better judgment of us ALL!! 
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Comment #1 posted by Vincent on September 28, 2009 at 07:36:58 PT:
Wounded animal
 Sen. Scott Brown and the Massachusetts Cheifs of Police Association just don't seem to want to get into the spirit of things, now do they? These prohibitionists are like a "wounded animal"...they know that they are dying so, the are going to be extremely vicious, in order to send us into "perdition" before them.
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