cannabisnews.com: Legalizing Marijuana Will Ruin a Great Culture










  Legalizing Marijuana Will Ruin a Great Culture

Posted by CN Staff on July 07, 2008 at 07:23:48 PT
By Ben Badio 
Source: Central Florida Future 

USA -- As we coast through this election season, it seems that everyone has knowledge on current and relevant issues: the economy, gas prices, gay rights, etc. That said, there is one issue on the minds of American youth that you don't have to wait until an election year to hear about: Marijuana.The fight for reform of weed laws has been quite a long battle - nearly half a century and counting - but the pot smokers of America refuse to relent.
From their ongoing struggle against the woes of prohibition, the cannabis consumers of our country have managed to create what is now one of the nation's largest student organizations - the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, or NORML. After all the buildup I've crammed into this introduction, it will probably surprise many readers that I think the legalization of marijuana is a terrible idea.Before I explain myself, I feel obligated to mention this: I have nothing against pot smokers. Some of the nicest, most intelligent people I know are frequent users, and almost everyone I know will admit to trying it at least once in their lives. I honestly see nothing wrong with purchasing or smoking marijuana, - after all, it doesn't seem to have any negative effects, short or long term. It's the lack of any real negative effects that make weed the most popular illegal substance. I would never tell a pot smoker that what they are doing is wrong or try to get them to stop because it just doesn't seem like that big of a deal. That said, I myself have never participated in such an activity; it's just not my style. I like the idea of knowing that my zany thoughts sprout from a sober mind.So why not legalize it? Simple logic: If pot becomes legal, it just won't be interesting anymore. Marijuana is one of the only illegal substances so influential in American culture that it's users have developed a sub-culture of their own. Weed culture is a nationwide phenomenon complete with films, music, books, stores and silly T-shirts; all dedicated to America's favorite criminal pastime. It's a culture with its own heroes, like Bob Marley, Willie Nelson, Cheech and Chong. A pot leaf is more than just a picture of a drug; it is a symbol that connects people to a lifestyle.The birth and development of weed culture is not purely a result of the drug's temporarily mind-altering effects - it's enticing because it's illegal. People try pot because they aren't supposed to, and when they realize how much they like it, they continue to use it in the face of its illegality. By nature, humans are tempted to do what isn't allowed. It's this natural rebelliousness that makes smoking weed such an adventurous endeavor for many people, and it's that rebellious feeling that all pot smokers share. Cultures are based on sharing. Therefore, legal weed means cultural breakdown.Imagine a world where pot becomes the cultural equivalent of smoking cigarettes, something that is done, or not done, but cultureless either way. Imagine how humorless, dramaless and boring the TV show Weeds would be without the unrelenting threat of legal action. Imagine a world where an organization like NORML suddenly becomes quite abnormal because it has nothing left to fight for. When the battle is over, the soldiers go home.Source: Central Florida Future (Orlando, FL Edu)Author: Ben BadioPublished: July 7, 2008Copyright: 2008 Central Florida FutureContact: http://tinyurl.com/2t5sy4Website: http://www.centralfloridafuture.com/NORMLhttp://www.norml.org/CannabisNews -- Cannabis Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/cannabis.shtml

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Comment #61 posted by Richard Zuckerman on July 28, 2008 at 08:46:03 PT:
"WON'T BE INTERESTING ANYMORE"????!!!
Considering the property taxes, costs of law enforcement, stigma-plus result of being a convict, and extent of government involvement in drug money laundering, us poor and middle class Americans would be better off legalizing, regulating, and taxing the Herb, and encouraging the use of a vaporizer or eating as an alternative to smoking it. As a U.S. Navy Lt. Commander told me while I was in the U.S. Navy: "Don't smoke it. Eat it."Ralph Nader wants to improve the "Free Trade Agreements" to make sure Americans benefit from them. U.S. Senator Frank R. Lautenberg has only provided lip service about it. U.S. Senator Robert Menendez would rather bring in more foreign worker Visas instead of renewing the e-verification, a phenomenal example of outsourcing American jobs [The Center For Immigration Studies, www.cis.org, concludes in one recent study that the foreign workers are no more educated and qualified than Americans!!!!] at the expense of National Security. Cannabis decriminalization and universal health care will only be a pipe dream if the "North American Union" and United Nations takeover is completed. The longer you people remain mum about the problem of illegal immigration, e.g., overpopulation, loss of jobs for American workers, labor wages suppression, bankrupt hospitals from free Charity health care, the more jobs we lose for cheap labor; and no amount of Cannabis ingestion will make us happy about it then!!!!! Obama and Insane McCain, members of the Council On Foreign Relations will do NOTHING about it. Ralph Nader would, though! Libertarian candidate Bob Barr might continue to support open-border-immigration, though.On July 29, 2008, 4:33 P.M. [Eastern Standard Time], I hand-delivered a petition for Coram nobis to the U.S. District Court for the District of New Jersey, Newark, 
[1] on the issue of bad faith prosecution, in light of the recent Second Amendment decision, District Of Columbia v. Heller, www.dcguncase.com [posting the entire U.S. Supreme Court opinion at the top of the web page and citing selected quotes in another part of same web site, a few of those quotes which show the individual has had this individual Right to keep and bear arms since the Second Amendment was passed, that this is not a brand new Right being created by the Court!!!], in that the U.S. Attorney admitted back in 1991 that they based their decision to prosecute the SECOND indictment because I tried to purchase firearms and allegedly lied on the firearms purchase forms in Florida, but the trial judge agreed with the trial prosecutor that the individual citizen does NOT have a Right to keep and bear arms within the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution; [2] a judge disqualification issue, in that I was taken thru trial in the same federal courthouse where the victim judge worked, the prosecution witness testified courthouse staff had to be escorted out to their cars at the end of the day, Freedom of Information Act materials subsequently received show that the FBI had me under surveillance BEFORE they received the mail "threat", and after my federal supervised release expired on October 23, 1995, Nicholas v. Alley, 71 F.3d 347 (10th Cir. December 1, 1995) came out which requires the Oklahoma City bombing trial to be moved to Denver, Colorado, because one of the law clerks of Hon. Wayne Alley, U.S.D.J., was slightly injured in the Oklahoma City bombing blast when a ceiling light fell down on his arm or shoulder. One of the issues which will probably arise is whether the conviction from July 11, 1991, 17 years ago, will be affected RETROACTIVELY.  As I stated herein, the majority opinion of District Of Columbia v. Heller, as shown by the quotes posted on www.dcguncase.com, wrote that the Second Amendment had already been an individual Right at the time of my July 11, 1991, federal felony conviction. Yesterday, while perusing the Rutgers University Alexander Library, College Avenue, New Brunswick, New Jersey, I came across Butler v. Curry, 528 F.3d 624, 633 (9th Cir. 2008): "Under Teague, 'old' rules of criminal procedure apply 'both on direct and collateral review...'" (Citing Whorton v. Bockting, --U.S.--, 127 S.Ct. 1173, 1180, 167 L.Ed.2d 1 (2007). In other words, retroactivity does not come into play when the new decision merely clarifies prior decisions and does not establish a new rule of law. Local 32 v. Camden County Mun. Util., 362 N.J.Super. 432, 828 A.2d 927 (App. Div. 2003). "Not every opinion creates a new rule of law." Fiore v. White, 757 A.2d 842, 847 (Pa. 2000).On July 25, 2008, I hand-delivered a New Jersey Court Rule 4:50-1.(e) and (f) motion to vacate the two Orders dated April 19, 2005, dismissing my lawsuit against the Highland Park Public Library, www.hpboro.com, on their library rule which limits our use of the public pay telephone to only three minutes maximum, even if nobody else is waiting to use the telephone, arrest ostensibly because I refused to produce identification to demanding policemen, and a frame-up "disorderly conduct" charge. The basis for dismissal of the civil action was ostensibly that Heck v. Humphrey, 512 U.S. 477 (1994) applies to require the municipal court "disorderly conduct" conviction to be thrown out either on direct appeal, post-conviction relief, or a Pardon, BEFORE being entitled to go to trial in the civil action for damages. I did file a direct appeal from the April 19, 2005, dismissal, but the three judge panel of the Appellate Division affirmed in an unpublished opinion, which often happens when the appeal involves unrepresented litigants. After the dismissal, during direct appeal of the dismissal, I hand-delivered a motion for post-conviction relief to the New Brunswick Municipal Court, pursuant to New Jersey Court Rule 7:10-2, but they never acknowledged receipt of the paperwork or scheduled a hearing on the matter, except the date stamped July 12, 2006, on my own set of moving papers used for proof of service. I'm claiming in the pending motion that I should be entitled to proceed to trial against the police (The Liar's Club) based on these changed circumstances, under the "Exceptions To The General Rule Of Issue Preclusion" of Restatement of the Law of Judgments, Section 28, formally adopted in Olivieri v. Y.M.F. Carpet, Inc., 186 N.J. 511, 521-523 (2006) during the pending appeal of the April 19, 2005, dismissal Orders; The appellate court did not even acknowledge this intervening monumental court decision on issue preclusion [when we are allowed to re-litigate an issue that had already been decided in a previous court hearing]. Since my lawsuit alleges only State Constitutional violations, instead of federal constitutional violations, "the law of the forum" applies, Klaxon Co. v. Stentor Co., 313 U.S. 487, 496-497 (1941), "[t]he interpretation of the New Jersey Constitution is not subject to 'constraints arising out of principles of federalism'", State v. Schmid, 84 N.J. 535, 559, 423 A.2d 615 (1980). Therefore, the State courts are bound by the State cases which are on point. The law has been well established that a municipal court conviction is inadmissible in a motion for summary judgment/dismissal under Eaton v. Eaton, 119 N.J. 628, 644, 575 A.2d 858 (1990) (dicta), Trisuzzi v. Tabatchnik, 285 N.J.Super. 15, 25, 666 A.2d 543 (App. Div. 1995); Davis v. Town of Paulsboro, 421 F.Supp.2d 835, 853-854, footnote 38 (D.N.J. Irenas 2006) ("Summary judgment, of course, looks only to admissible evidence")(Citing 3rd Circuit case)(This federal district court decision was published after dismissal of my lawsuit and during the appeal). Even if we were bound by Heck v. Humphrey, supra, that case was a prisoner who had the choice of filing a habeas corpus petition before filing the federal civil rights action. Heck v. Humphrey, supra, wrote in comment 10 of same case that the conviction must be vacated even if the convict is release from custody and ineligible for habeas corpus, but this comment 10 is dicta, See Bembenek v. Donohoo, 355 F.Supp.2d 942, 948-950 (E.D. Wisc. 2005), and the 3rd Circuit follows this dicta in Williams v. Consovoy, 453 F.3d 173, 177-178 (3rd Cir. 2006), Stewart v. City Of Philadelphia, 267 Fed.Appx. 104, 105 (3rd Cir. March 3, 2008). But see Montgomery v. DeSimone, 159 F.3d 120, 125, 129 (3rd Cir. October 16, 1998)(opposing comment 10 of Heck v. Humphrey). The full U.S. Supreme Court has never had a case in which the convict is ineligible for habeas corpus relief, is released from custody, and wants to take the civil case to trial. See: Muhammad v. Close, 540 U.S. 749, 752, footnote 2 (2004). As a matter de jure, Heck v. Humphrey should NOT bar a trial in a civil action if the convict is ineligible for habeas corpus relief, for the reasons expressed in DEFINING THE REACH OF HECK V. HUMPHREY: SHOULD THE FAVORABLE TERMINATION RULE APPLY TO INDIVIDUALS WHO LACK ACCESS TO HABEAS CORPUS?, Volume 121 Harvard Law Review 868, 876, 880-889 [2008]; Wallace v. Kato, 166 L.Ed.2d 973, 987, footnote 3, 549 U.S. ___ (February 20, 2007)(Concurring opinion by Justice Stevens, joined by Justice Souter). Therefore, I submit that an unreasonable application of federal law results when a State court invokes a federal Supreme Court decision to bar a plaintiff from taking liar cops to trial until the municipal court conviction is thrown out, whilst existing binding State court precedents hold the municipal court conviction is inadmissible and does not bar the plaintiff in the connecting civil case from taking the case to trial. The "law of the forum". It seems to me the Judge is trying to protect the liar cops by invoking the federal Supreme Court Heck v. Humphrey case as a roadblock to my attempts to take these liar pigs through trial in the civil case by a jury of my peers, as if I'm a George Orwell "nonperson"!!! We cannot deter cops from committing perjury if we can't take them to trial in a civil action for damages!! The American criminal justice system is not only "...hard-wired for punitive racism." Unequal Justice, by William J. Stuntz, Volume 121, No. 8 Harvard Law Review 1969, 1971 [June 2008]. It is also hard-wired to permit retaliation by police (and judges who protect these liar police officers) against citizens who question their authority and exercise protected constitutional rights. See Adderley v. Florida, 385 U.S. 39, 56 (1966)(Dissenting opinion by Justice Douglas, joined by The Chief Justice, Justice Brennan and Justice Fortas)!! The U.S. Supreme Court prohibited "railroading" defendants in juvenile delinquent proceedings, In re Gault. I shouldn't be railroaded in my civil case, either!!Richard Zuckerman, Box 159, Metuchen, N.J., 08840-0159, (Phone)(732) 354-4063; Member of: www.njcitizensforimmigrationcontrol.com; www.mpp.org.
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Comment #60 posted by FoM on July 13, 2008 at 14:18:56 PT
fight_4_freedom 
Being born on November 4th is cool. I plan on taking the day off too. No not really. LOL! I know I will get my 2 birthday wishes this year. I guess I should temper that a little. I am really hopeful that I will get my 2 birthday wishes this year.
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Comment #59 posted by fight_4_freedom on July 13, 2008 at 13:49:40 PT:
Well I sure hope both of Your birthday wishes 
come true. That will make it quite a memorable birthday. I plan on taking the day of the vote and the next day off so I can celebrate throughout the night :)
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Comment #58 posted by Celaya on July 12, 2008 at 12:28:57 PT
Legalization will destroy marijuana culture?
Seems this fellow likes to be a naughty boy. That is not the marijuana "culture," if there is such thing. Granted, there are some people who, like him, are attracted by "forbidden fruit," but all this perpetuates an overall negativity to the experience. I submit it is anathema to a real marijuana culture.Persecution is good? Hardly. If anything, the monstrous oppression squashes the culture, because it makes everyone paranoid of their neighbors. Two neighbors who both smoke pot may never know that about each other because they have to keep their smoking so secret. Multiply that by the thousands of tokers in any community who, if not for the persecution, would naturally come to know each other.So, on the contrary, instead of fostering a culture, it almost pulverizes it. I suspect this is largely what the prohibition is about. They want us hiding in our closets, afraid to reveal ourselves to others like us. That way, it prevents us from uniting into large groups to challenge the status quo as we did in the sixties and seventies.Marijuana consumers are, by definition, people who do not follow arbitrary rules or submit to illegitimate power. That makes us dangerous to corrupt power that relies on ruling a submissive population that will obey unquestioningly.Professor Julian Heicklen, who led the marijuana smokeouts at the gates of Penn State said, "Marijuana is not the message. It's the messenger. The lit marijuana herb is the torch of freedom!" 
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Comment #57 posted by FoM on July 10, 2008 at 12:42:04 PT
 ezrydn 
Thank you. I don't know what it must have been like having a father that is or was a Texas Democrat because I don't know anything about Texas Democrats. I was raised in eastern PA near Philly. I went to Catholic school and didn't know anything about politics. Politics were not emphasized but more social issues were the focus. I'm glad I wasn't exposed to politics until really since I've been on line and I was born in 47. I voted for Reagan, Kerry and Obama. Obama is the first person I voted for other then in a general election. We all come from such interesting different backgrounds and that makes this all so interesting to me.
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Comment #56 posted by ezrydn on July 10, 2008 at 12:11:34 PT
Rep/Dem Change
I first registered to vote in 1966. I was in Vietnam at the time. I registered Republican, actually out of agression toward my grandfather, a staunch Tex. Democrat. I've been a Republican all this time. However, "George" taught me the error of my ways (even though I had voted for him TWICE). Last year, I changed my affiliation, politically. You might wonder what caused the change. War in Iraq? No. Patriot Act? No. It was simply the tact that the Republicans seem to be on. They lost sight of the America I grew up in and studied about, not to mention, put my life on the line for. So, I didn't like their image of my country. Actually, what changed my mind was moving out of the US, to a neighboring country. It was then that I really started to see what was going on.I was no longer "in the shell." ICE hates to see Americans enter the country who have decided to live outside it. We get more questions, more BS, you name it. Plus, I got tired of living with "scared people." As an American Combat Vet, I can't bring myself to scare easily. And "intimidation" is out of the question. Those are their best two tactics to use against travelers.When I listen to the arguements about Obama, I'm reminded of the same arguements we heard about John F. Kennedy. Remember how the Pope was supposed to rule the US throgh Kennedy? Oh, and the "change-name" crowd. Haven't they got anything "foundationally solid" to say? Other than grade school antics? When I look at the American landscape and consider the mismanagement of same, the word "CHANGE" doesn't sound too bad. I know we've got the right "checks and balances" in place for nothing really drastic to occur. I still believe in the Consititution and it's ability to "change" things.We vets consider ourselves "Defenders," not "Occupiers." When it's time, we'll leave. And I'm sure Gen. Patraeus knows that also.I can relay that the many people I talk with, where I live, are, for the major part, supporters of Obama. I haven't found any that would support McCain. The cops I have coffee with weekly also support Obama, since I am now funneling info to them that they wouldn't normally get down here.Obama definitely has a following. I not only want to see him in the stadium but also look forward to watching him raise his right hand on January 21st! Not much longer now. I wonder if all the Repub/Neocons will "leave the country?" Hey, a guy can only hope.
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Comment #55 posted by FoM on July 10, 2008 at 10:09:13 PT
It's Our Turn
Byrds - "Turn Turn Turn"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNopQq5lWqQ
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Comment #54 posted by FoM on July 10, 2008 at 10:02:21 PT
fight_4_freedom 
One more thing. I have two wishes for my birthday this November 4th. One is that Obama wins by a landslide and two that your state wins on our issue. 
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Comment #53 posted by FoM on July 10, 2008 at 09:58:24 PT
fight_4_freedom 
I think you will win. You collected so many signatures it seems almost impossible that it won't pass. Sometimes silence is golden until it's time to speak. I'm sure the organizations have learned that over the years and will use discretion. They don't have any Republican hate issues on your ballot this Fall do they? They do that to fire up some people so they vote.
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Comment #52 posted by fight_4_freedom on July 10, 2008 at 09:49:10 PT:
I can't see them having a problem with it
I know it will certainly make NORML look good by us being out there politically involved. I think the news will pick up a bit more once September comes around. I think MPP and MCCC will wait until then to really start hitting them hard with tv ads and such. Maybe even later than that. My trust is with them, they know what they're doing.But you're right, it's not going to help any to get the CZAR involved. Personally though, I don't think any force trying to stop this has a chance of swaying enough voters to make a difference. I have a feeling we will win big with this one. I'm going out on a limb and I'm going to say we'll win with 70% or more of the votes. 
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Comment #51 posted by FoM on July 10, 2008 at 09:32:27 PT
fight_4_freedom 
Rust Rover too funny. I wonder if we could wear a pin like from NORML and do a Fair for Obama? I'm glad the news stopped about your Initiative until Fall. The more publicity too soon the more chance of the drug czar getting in on it I think. It's a delicate balance as this administration winds down.
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Comment #50 posted by fight_4_freedom on July 10, 2008 at 09:24:49 PT:
FoM - Thanks
We used to have a van like that. We called it the "Rust Rover". We paid $200 for it. It was brown to begin with so it kind of blended in with the rust. Ugliest van ever but it drove like it was brand new. The beauty always lies within :)We still have a couple fairs before the summer is over so I might be able to help. Eddie Money is playing at one of them so he will draw a nice crowd. Although I think I may focus on our MM initiative since there is already a nice size Obama group in our county. Or maybe I can pass out Obama pamphlets in one hand and medical cannabis pamphlets in the other :)
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Comment #49 posted by FoM on July 10, 2008 at 08:50:48 PT
fight_4_freedom 
Our tractor has been ready for retirement since we got it in the mid 80s! I still love to pop a wheelie on it. My husband went to get a new tire in our broken down pick up truck. Like Neil Young says Rust Never Sleeps. We are looking for a used older pick up truck since the one we have has more rust then metal. It would be cheap to paint. LOL! The Obama campaign called the other night and I will be volunteering at 3 local Fairs in September. Doing a Fair is fun since you get in free and can go and check out things during a break. You might want to consider doing a Fair too. No problem I removed your post.
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Comment #48 posted by fight_4_freedom on July 10, 2008 at 08:40:07 PT:

I'm going to go pick up an Obama in 08' yard 
sign from a local group later today. I saw one for the first time in my city yesterday and I got a little shock of excitement. Mine is going up immediately. And within the next month they should have our "Vote Yes on Medical Marijuana" signs ready. So my yard is going to look extremely political here in a couple weeks.Hey FoM, do you think you could remove post #30 for me? And it sounds like you had an excellent 4th of July.But you're right, there is always something to do out in the country. And tractor tires aren't exactly easy to change. Sounds like you're tractor is ready for retirement.lol
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Comment #47 posted by Hope on July 10, 2008 at 05:00:22 PT

It's stunning what prohibitions have done
to this country and how out of control our own government and law enforcement methods have become.Being stunned and wringing my hands in despair and being angry, or worse, simply ignoring it and giving up certainly doesn't help.Grits for Breakfast is shining light on a situation where false positives are sending probationers back to jail and the people in charge don't care. Another report at Grits tells of lies from police, police and authorities that I want to respect and admire and appreciate, but can't, that caused a teenager to be in danger and ultimately killed. Over lies. Professional liars thinking lies and cruel intimidation can lead to something good. Innocent people being forced to confess to crimes they didn't commit is ok with them. Innocent people are locked up and the real perpetrator keeps about his evil business. It's disgusting and this is my government doing these things. It's unbearable and being angry as a black cloud, I guess, is part of getting unstunned and trying to make justice and right and wrong more important than it seems to be with the people that are doing all these wrongs in the name of law. I'm outraged. I'm outraged at murder, theft, rape, assault, lying, false witness and all the obvious wrongs of the world but I'm even more outraged that "authorities" are doing so much of it in the name of the law of this land.
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Comment #46 posted by FoM on July 09, 2008 at 21:23:27 PT

Hope
I would get upset if I read stories about drug raids. I know some people get killed and that's wrong but so are innocent people killed everyday in shootings in the cities. Death is a terrible thing no matter how we look at it but life can be very good and right now hope is alive like I haven't seen since the 60s. Obama won't be able to fix everything but maybe we can change our way of thinking as a society and become more tolerant and that would help everyone.
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Comment #45 posted by Hope on July 09, 2008 at 21:07:25 PT

Obama
I want him to be the next President so much. I can imagine that he might make things better for all Americans.McCain gives me the pure creeps. I can't even imagine that he might make things better at all in any way.

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Comment #44 posted by FoM on July 09, 2008 at 21:06:49 PT

Paint with Light 
Yes I heard the story about Fired Up and Ready To Go. It was a great story. Seeing his family on the news last night was great. I know they won't do it again and I understand but their children were adorable. I don't want to wish time away but I am really looking forward to the acceptance speech at the convention. I hope the whole stadium is packed to overflowing. He will be good for us and our relationship with the world which has been destroyed these last 8 years.
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Comment #43 posted by Hope on July 09, 2008 at 21:02:24 PT

Paint with light 
This morning, one of the first things I read about was another "Drug raid gone wrong" over at Pete's place, DrugWarRant.The attitude of the perpetrators and the words of the police spokesman got me so angry. I couldn't shake the anger and disappointment all day.It's the news that makes me so angry and so makes it so hard to be optimistic. I tell myself I shouldn't read it... but that would be wrong. I have to know and I have to be angry and optimism suffers because of it.I know there are good people in government and law enforcement, as well as good people who are very, very well off financially and try to help others and make the world a better place. It's the state of government and law enforcement and the seeming sheepleness, ignorance, and cruelty of so many people, as a whole that keeps me so upset. Being upset and angry is useless and destructive unless I can find a way to focus it. Other than supporting change in every way I can, I feel so helpless. I don't understand how all this can just go on and why so many people that know this is all wrong can't seem to bring about a change for the better any sooner than is happening. It's so frustrating.But you're right, I have to try not to let the bad that is happening pressure me to the point of feeling helpless and giving up hope. This has definitely been one of those darker days. Thank you for reminding me that there is always hope and that there are many, many people that really do care and that will be able to make things better for everyone over time. 
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Comment #42 posted by Paint with light on July 09, 2008 at 20:52:48 PT

Fom
Thanks.I started to post a couple of weeks ago about the phrase "Fired up, ready to go" that is used in the Obama rallies. I hope you have heard the story of it's origination. I think he learned a bit about determination and spirit when he met the little lady behind it.Ever since I first heard the phrase I can't help but think of inserting the sound of inhaling in the pause, as in,Fired up,(sound of inhaling),ready to go.Don't feel alone.We are but two of millions.Equal with alcohol is all I ask.
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Comment #41 posted by FoM on July 09, 2008 at 20:13:44 PT

Paint with Light 
I have also been an Obama supporter since the 2004 Democratic National Convention when he gave that remarkable speech. We don't have a Red America or a Blue America but we have the United States of America. That blew me away.
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Comment #40 posted by FoM on July 09, 2008 at 20:10:20 PT

Paint with Light 
I sometimes think I am mostly alone on being an Obama supporter and you made my day. This campaign has my total attention and it is wonderful to see such happy hopeful people that support him.
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Comment #39 posted by Paint with light on July 09, 2008 at 19:58:12 PT

Hope
Hope, I am a little more of an optimist than you.I have been an Obama supporter since 2004 and the famous speech. He has the promise and the potential to make a real positive difference.I also think the gov't will go through some changes.In the meantime I know some good non-corrupt people in the gov't.Contrary to some people's belief I even know some good rich people.As Arthur C. Clark told me and some others when one of them asked what the odds were of society making it to 2001(in 1978), he replied,"51 to 49, but I am an optimist."What really bothers me is when some self-rightious hypocrit takes a check from the gov't with one hand and gives it the finger with the other. There are a few of those in my neighborhood.When I run into one guy I and I ask how he is doing, his responce is always what some terrible thing somebody else is doing to him. He never takes reponsibility for his predicaments. He is so negative he could depress a puppy.I just don't see the world as being so evil. I travel and do art shows all over the east and I meet great people in every city I go to. I have found people are mostly the same everywhere.When you personally meet thousands of people several weekends each and every year for decades you notice consistant and universal shared needs and wants.No matter what city you go to there are people who feel just like you. They feel the same frustrations. You are not alone.Neither am I. In every city there are people with "hope". There are people who are working to change things and are pleased with the progress that is being made in a lot of areas of society.I love each day I am on this side of the dirt line.I am so glad I am not one of those tortured souls replaying the tapes in thier heads of the wrongs they think they have suffered. But I know they can't stop.Equal with alcohol is all I ask.
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Comment #38 posted by FoM on July 09, 2008 at 19:08:35 PT

Something A Littly Corny But Cute
My sister in law sent me this and if you lived thru the 60s it might make you smile.Take Me Back To The Sixtieshttp://objflicks.com/TakeMeBackToTheSixties.htm
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Comment #37 posted by Hope on July 09, 2008 at 13:46:17 PT

Whoops
That last post meant for another thread. I'll try to find it... and put it there.
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Comment #36 posted by Hope on July 09, 2008 at 13:45:30 PT

Amazing...
Government telling neighbors to work something reasonable out between themselves. No force and threats? What an amazing concept. Absolutely amazing... not to mention, wise. Wisdom in an agency of the government? It's flabbergasting.Looks like the porch at the "Treatment" center is the problem. They might consider doing something on their own property... like closing in the porch?
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Comment #35 posted by Hope on July 09, 2008 at 13:39:46 PT

Thank you, Museman.
I'm ready to see some good happen. Lot's of it. I'm ready to see Americans care about freedom from excessive government again. So ready.
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Comment #34 posted by museman on July 09, 2008 at 12:27:36 PT

Hope
"Is there a light anywhere, anywhere at all, in this dark quagmire and evil of an overgrown and completely corrupted government?"Yes, I think they used to call that light "The People."And when the people start exercizing their freedom without asking for permission from a government that never had the authority or the right to give or deny permission in the first place, then, and only then will true freedom be known and experienced int his country again.And just to head off any silly arguments (not from you Hope) about how 'we just can't allow people to run amok, doing whatever they want' I restate what ought to be the obvious;Freedom without responsibility is not freedom, and if one cannot take responsibility for their actions then they certainly should not make them.Liberty is not chaos, and restricting liberty on the farcical concept of 'preventing chaos' is a concept that needs to be done away with, and not tolerated amongst conscious and aware people if we are ever going to establish it in reality. Fortunately, though some may linger in alcoholic dazes of compromise and self justified ass-kissing, in order to suave their personal agendas, there is a fast growing awareness of the truth, and ultimately, no matter how hard the beast writhes against its fate, it's essentially over.And personnaly, I'm not 'asking' this government for anything, I DEMAND IT!
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Comment #33 posted by FoM on July 09, 2008 at 10:44:41 PT

Hope
I believe Obama is our last best hope for a better tomorrow. Nothing may change with Obama but nothing will change with McCain. A different direction will at least be new. What I have read I like about Homestead I think it's called and seniors and capital gains. I haven't found anything that Obama has said that is a major turnoff even though I don't agree with him on everything. 
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Comment #32 posted by Hope on July 09, 2008 at 10:34:58 PT

Paint with light 
"I think it is inconceivable that after total prohibition the guvment would allow total freedom>""...the guvment would allow total freedom."It's all gone wrong when it's the government's place to "allow" freedom. It's gotten too big. It's taken over people's lives. It's corrupt to the core. Good government was never meant to do or be that. Never. It's so huge and full of wrong and corruption now... that it may be impossible to save even the good in it. It will collapse of it's own size and corruption... and sheer nastiness and cruelty. It's consuming citizen's lives and liberty by the double handfuls. It's gobbling lives and means left and right. We don't have enough good representatives to rescue it from the hands of those who control it now. I know McCain will not rein it in, should he be the head of it. He could have done more reining in, as long as he's been in office and I can't see where he's struggled to do such a thing.I have the tiniest hope in Obama. Is he a man for truth and freedom? Is there any chance that he is really going to be any better than what we've had? Can he win? Is there a light anywhere, anywhere at all, in this dark quagmire and evil of an overgrown and completely corrupted government?
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Comment #31 posted by FoM on July 09, 2008 at 09:25:49 PT

fight_4_freedom 
We had a really good 4th of July weekend. We had friends over and we watched the History Channel that had a show on that was called Ohio Grassman. It was fun to watch since it was filmed where we live and we know Don Keating who was in the documentary. We have a 1939 tractor and we finally got it working right after a couple summers of rebuilding it and then we got a flat tire. Life in the country is always busy. It's a big tire and I guess we need a new one I think. If I didn't know better I'd say the tractor has a mind of it's own and decides it doesn't want to work anymore and quits. LOL!
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Comment #29 posted by FoM on July 09, 2008 at 06:51:59 PT

Just a Note
I can't find any news to post but it's that time of year. I hope everyone is enjoying the summer.
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Comment #28 posted by Paint with light on July 08, 2008 at 22:01:50 PT

comments by ezrydn
I agree,Legalize-Regulate-Control,Just like with alcohol.Also just like with alcohol, each person should be able to produce their personal product for pleasure purposes.I think it is inconceivable that after total prohibition the guvment would allow total freedom. So the only way legalization will ever happen is for uncle sam to somehow collect a benefit. I mean besides, less crime, less poverty, less prison and judicial expenses, less ruined lives, and a happier and healthier populace.When cannabis is legalized, we will slowly move from an alcohol based society to one that embraces cannabis.If uncle sam can't tax at least some of it, it will never be legal.My first introduction to cannabis was when I was playing keyboards for a soul group in 1965. It wasn't until three years later when I went to college that I met some Nam tokers. One guy had some speaker cabinets he had brought back that had some secret ingrediants inside. Soon we were all headed to Shoney's for a hot fudge cake.As I always say,Equal with alcohol is all I ask.
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Comment #27 posted by FoM on July 08, 2008 at 09:47:08 PT

ezrydn 
My husband was on his first tour in 69. He came home and went right back practically. He was introduced to marijuana during his first tour. They all bought it in sandbags from the Vietnamese. It was really cheap too. I think he said it was $5.00. Tie Dye Congress I'd just love it.
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Comment #26 posted by Hope on July 08, 2008 at 09:24:11 PT

Museman
Somewhere, on one of these threads, you shared a dream about overcoming some villainy. Thank you. I found it encouraging.It was beautiful, as was your song, it's music, and your video.
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Comment #25 posted by ezrydn on July 08, 2008 at 09:18:16 PT

SEA Experience
Yeah, FoM,Uncle Scam seems to forgot what he taught us. He also seems to have forgotten what Charlie, Charles and Chuck taught us. We learn well and then, using that "American ingenuity," we build upon what we have learned. I, personally, returned home at the end of '66, from the Central Highlands. At that moment in time, there was no "counter-culture" to speak of. Three years more and we see the counter-culture in full bloom, especially in August of '69, in upstate New York.The government, in effect, forced our new culture into existance. It was fueled by the factual knowledge broght back by returning GIs. Seeing the glaring lies we'd been told gave us the stamina to "fight the good fight." Here at home! On an off-note: One has to also realize that it was that same counter culture that opened dress standards for men. Prior to the culture evolution, men were assigned white, black, brown and gray. NO COLORS! Remember? The concept of 'tie dye" killed that idea. LOL Now, if we could just "tie dye" Congress. Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?There are truly MANY combat-experienced vets within the Reform Movement. We have evolved the jungle tactics into reform tactics. We have honed our "ambush" techniques. We understand how to get "Fire For Effect" orders rapidly out to the masses along with targeting info.While many of these seem to be military terms, their really ideas that have been transitioned into use within the civilian sector, with the violence removed. We are no longer the flower-carrying hippys of yesteryear. We have evolved! We accepted the Bright and Shining Lie once. We won't swallow it again!LEGALIZE - REGULATE - CONTROL
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Comment #24 posted by Hope on July 08, 2008 at 09:15:44 PT

Comment 20 and 21
But I think we'd still have movies like Harold and Kumar, because they're really funny and Paul would still bring us news of what is going on concerning the plant and justices and injustices throughout the world and we'd still care, a lot. It's true what Ezryden said in comment 21 about what we've done, what we've been forced to do and see, what we've been though together, why all that happened, and how it has helped form us, who we are, and our attitudes. That true and strong "Culture" exists and will be remembered long after many or all of us who lived it are gone.But I don't think this guy, Ben Badio, is a full fledged, hate filled and fearful prohibitionist. He may be trying to help end the insanity of prohibition... in his way. 
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Comment #23 posted by Hope on July 08, 2008 at 09:02:09 PT

Comment 20 Sensemilla Jones
Exactly!
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Comment #22 posted by FoM on July 08, 2008 at 05:46:40 PT

ezrydn 
You're comment about Vietnam made me think of this song. Vietnam is where it all started for many people. No one knew in many areas of the country much about marijuana until the troops started coming home.Lyrics:I volunteered for the Army on my birthdayThey draft the white trash first,'round here anywayI done two tours of duty in VietnamAnd I came home with a brand new planI take the seed from Colombia and MexicoI plant it up the holler down Copperhead RoadWell the D.E.A.'s got a chopper in the airI wake up screaming like I'm back over thereI learned a thing or two from ol' Charlie don't you know
You better stay away from Copperhead RoadSteve Earle - Copperhead Roadhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc86_Weoye0
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Comment #21 posted by ezrydn on July 08, 2008 at 05:29:27 PT

Different View
Yes, as of the Sixty's, we became a sub-culture. And for many reasons, to find supply, to provide community watchers for any incoming attacks, care of our friends. There where many reasons we banded together. We found that you couldn't go to dad, couldn't go to mom, couldn't go to Uncle Scam. We only had each other so we "evolved." Then, we became activists. We began pooling our information and sources. Books were written, Posters and Tee Shirts were made, buttons were made. We began our "campaign," our Mission. To bring freedom back into our lives. Many of us had returned from the war in Vietnam and knew the basis for the new cultural campaign. And today, all that sweat and blood is showing signs of paying off. What idiot would say that once the Founding Fathers got all the names of that piece of hemp paper they call the Consititution, they all just "lost interest?" Reformists know much more about American's early history, politically, than most Congressional dunces because we've always gone back to those precepts of the Founders.Cultural evaporation? I seriously doubt it. One hellova big party? You betcha! The number of smiling people? Priceless. Am I to believe someone thinks we should continue a brutal war against citizens simply to save a culture? I bet you believe cannabis is a "gateway drug" also! Why is it that writers with "logic block" seem to think the "sub-culture" is the best topic?
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Comment #20 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on July 08, 2008 at 05:19:41 PT

The last valid prohibitionist argument -
"So why not legalize it? Simple logic: If pot becomes legal, it just won't be interesting anymore."I think someone is tugging on our lower extremities.What kind of real prohibitionist doesn't mention addiction, mental illness, higher potency, gateway drug, or sending the wrong message to the children?The kind who knows that's all bs.He's right. It wouldn't be interesting anymore, because if cannabis were legal, the only problem with cannabis would be solved.So, if you don't want to keep hearing about medical marijuana and hemp, would prefer that tv shows and movies like Weeds and Harold & Kumar didn't get made, and wish that NORML, MPP, and that darn Paul Armentano would just shut up and leave you alone, then the answer is simple -Legalize It!
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Comment #19 posted by OverwhelmSam on July 08, 2008 at 05:03:03 PT

Safer Than Caffiene
I tend to agree with this guy's view in that if pot were legal and regulated for adult use, I probably wouldn't smoke that much anymore. I've always considered my cannabis consumption in part a defiant act against a government that has no right to tell me that I can't use it. They can arrest and screw people's lives over, but that doesn't make it right. It makes prohibition of marijuana evil.I believe in laws that are against violent acts and that protect property, but cannabis prohibition can not be enforced and is vaguely supported in the first place. So yeah, the law is ridiculous and good reason to stick a middle finger in the air at the ONDCP and the DEA by firing it right up.
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Comment #18 posted by museman on July 07, 2008 at 22:10:49 PT

john tyler
I will have to wait until I get to my other computer -I'm out of town. My laptop is running win2k and isn't compatible. The studio computer here is currently in a state of flux so I can't use it. It bluescreened my laptop when i tried it anyway. If i decide to use it, I'll have to put XP on one of my laptops, they would work then.It looks cool though, and I appreciate the heads up on it. Its quite likely I'll find a use for it, and it really isn't all that expensive.
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Comment #17 posted by John Tyler on July 07, 2008 at 19:46:35 PT

too ironic
I’m afraid Ben’s irony was a little too subtle for my taste. It came across as smug and callous. And the line about it is interesting because it is illegal… What! Ask the 830,000 people who were arrested last year how interesting it was being dragged through the American Gulag.Re-legalization would make the culture better. It would be good for the country, the economy, the people, the body, the mind, and the spirit.By the by, museman what did you think of the Sound Spectrum software?

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Comment #16 posted by goneposthole on July 07, 2008 at 19:23:17 PT

The man is a complete idiot
sarcasm or not.I smoke cannabis because it always helps me feel a little bit better.It always does, legal or not. It's been that way for thousands of years.

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Comment #15 posted by charmed quark on July 07, 2008 at 16:44:24 PT

irony is a dangerous thing
People seldom get it. It's like "A Modest Proposal" by Swift. He wasn't really saying eating babies was the solution to "The Irish Problem". But freshmen students still get mad when they read this, thinking he was serious.In this article, he's really saying that pot is mostly harmless and there was never any reason to ban it. And prohibition is just encouraging more people to use it.
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Comment #14 posted by potpal on July 07, 2008 at 16:08:55 PT

ruin a great culture
Is Benny referring to this wonderful, alcohol, gun, tobacco, police state, prison, pee in a cup, pharmeceutical culture we find ourselves living in?
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Comment #13 posted by tintala on July 07, 2008 at 12:07:07 PT:

waste of time and energy reading this REDUNDANT 
Article. counter culture is here and wont go away, even if cannabis is legal, then it's "CANNABIS CULTURE" , we need it legal , screw this article's mis-leading guise of "spew" and "patriotism". waste of time.
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Comment #12 posted by Had Enough on July 07, 2008 at 11:32:05 PT

Imagine That...!!!
“Imagine a world where pot becomes the cultural equivalent of smoking cigarettes, something that is done, or not done, but cultureless either way. Imagine how humorless, dramaless and boring the TV show Weeds would be without the unrelenting threat of legal action. Imagine a world where an organization like NORML suddenly becomes quite abnormal because it has nothing left to fight for. When the battle is over, the soldiers go home.”Yes Ben, imagine that. Many people long for, and imagine this day to come.
As far as NORML is concerned…They would be more than thrilled knowing that their organization is no longer needed.Now Ben, imagine this…John Lennon – Imaginehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEOkxRLzBf0************museman – standby for the movie. Dell sent me another DVD program. It’s not exactly what I had before the crash, but it is pretty close. It has ‘Disk Image’ feature in it, and it works pretty well. 9 copies are on the way to Pittsburgh…So stand by, I have to run with the daily grind thing for a day or two, your copies are up next…I’ll be in touch.

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Comment #11 posted by ekim on July 07, 2008 at 10:47:49 PT

Ben Imagine how far you have missed the mark
GROWERS BREEDING NEW HEMP HEMP growers in the Dauphin region are going back to some of the original hemp breeds in the area from the 18th century to come up with new varietieshttp://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v08/n615/a06.html?330

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Comment #10 posted by museman on July 07, 2008 at 10:36:37 PT

counterculture
"I like the idea of knowing that my zany thoughts sprout from a sober mind"Actually that kind of 'zanity' is a bit disconcerting; people who think their 'sober' mind is some kind of special state of consciousness, when in actuality it is totally fogged by the lack of awareness of important facts about such things as prohibition, and how it is an insidious, evil, manifestation of the cocaine/alcoholic fantasies of a bunch of modern demons.The counterculture came about -in appearance- primarily due to the VietNam war, the mainstream participation in it at the time was most certainly connected to that, so that when the war was 'over' it was easy for a good majority of the boomer generation to cut their hair, get jobs, and establish the big generational compromise known today as the Yuppies.But those who were called into the counterculture for more substantial reasons like an understanding of the many errors our ancestors had left us with -much like my generation has left a big mess for our children- didn't all fall down into the established corridors of servitude and time bondage, and carried the torch through the dark years of consumer decadence, had to sadly watch while the dreams of their youth were systematicly commercialized, ridiculed, demonized, and all but destroyed. Their motivations were not founded on one war, or substance use, or even one point of view. Their motivations for being part of the 'counterculture' had to do with consciousness, and spiritual understanding. -This is one of the reasons why I had a personal issue with being labeled a 'hippy' for so many years, because I felt the common understanding and idea of 'hippy' was not even close to the mark. (I've mellowed on it over the years) The idea that some people hold -that because they were there at certain pivotal events in the 'counterculture' history, that that somehow eternally qualifies them as 'conscious,' is silly and ridiculous. Most of them had sold out within a decade of their 'experience.'Most of what is labeled 'the counterculture,' in it's 'heyday' was just fad and fashion for a nation of teenagers and 20 somethings.The constant attempt to destroy any form of consciousness and awareness by the status quo and their servants and minons is the reason why such a term as 'the counterculture' came into being in the first place; -divide and conquer-.While it is true that cannabis prohibition is at the center of the struggle for human and civil rights, and that many, many people who are actively pursuing greater consciousness, and those who are still pursuing it albeit maybe not so actively, use cannabis as an aid to consciousness, cannabis is not the hub and focus of the 'counterculture.'If this guy who thinks his 'sober' words are somehow clever and zany, believes that the counterculture would go away if cannabis were legalized, first I'd say, lets try and see, but I have no doubt that given the liberty to pursue consciousness (kind of like the pursuit of happiness) without fear, the counterculture would blossom and become mainstream -which is what they are really afraid of.I will say that there is almost some cleverness to this guys words. he's managed to put us all down, to ridicule us one more time, support the moral corruption of the staus quo, and all in the guise of clear-headedness as opposed to 'high on pot.'Excuse me, I had to take a toke to clear my mind...ah that's better.I feel pity for guys like this, who are so smug in their dull mentalities, and have convinced themselves of their superior intelligence (because they're 'sober'.) They may hoity toity around the fringes of real people like those in the 'counterculture' but like most other status quo approved positions, they are pretty devoid of true substance, grace or meaning, and one day soon they are going to feel as stupid as they are.
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Comment #9 posted by Sam Adams on July 07, 2008 at 10:34:59 PT

another thought
Perhaps this column marks the official beginning of the Prohibitionists' admitting defeat.Notice the title is "Ending Prohibition WILL...", so they've already accepted the certainty of re-legalization. Otherwise the title would be "Ending Prohibition WOULD...." Now it's only a matter of counting the days till it happens. And this guy has already come up with some sour-grapes consolation prizes for the right-wing."We're ending MJ prohibition, but don't worry, we're only doing it to CRIPPLE the counterculture in this country" yeah right, hope it sells to your religious wacko friends, good luck
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Comment #8 posted by FoM on July 07, 2008 at 08:25:26 PT

Hope
I agree.
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Comment #7 posted by Hope on July 07, 2008 at 08:20:56 PT

"It should be legalized."
Which, of course, it should be. Prohibition is far more a problem than the plant and it's use are or ever could be.
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Comment #6 posted by Hope on July 07, 2008 at 08:17:59 PT

He's saying activist would be quiet and go home.
He's right. I really think he's saying in a round about, twisted ironic way that it should be legalized. 
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Comment #5 posted by FoM on July 07, 2008 at 08:15:12 PT

Change We Can Believe In
I couldn't resist. Seriously if Cannabis could be grown outside with no volume restrictions Cannabis could be used in many different products. We would also save money by not needing so many police. 
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Comment #4 posted by Hope on July 07, 2008 at 08:10:10 PT

The guys trying to be ironic or something...
I think he's saying that if it's legalized it won't be important or so much "fun" for some people and their won't be the huge, not so underground, "culture" that connects pot smokers.All those kinds of comments obviously overlook what bothers us the most. The persecution, policing, caging, belittling, killing, fining, violence, accusing, lying, spying, snitching, and hurting people and their families over something that it just shouldn't be done over. They just ignore what is truly wrong about the hugely expensive and destructive prohibition of cannabis and all that is being ignored that should be what is being financed with our tax money instead of the massive persecution by government and prohibitionists of people who enjoy using the plant. The just snicker and la de da along about something that actually causes death and disaster on a regular basis... the legal criminal prohibition of the plant. They're either frightened, ignorant, or stupid and would rather whistle through the dark and ignore the true threat.
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Comment #3 posted by NikoKun on July 07, 2008 at 08:05:26 PT

How is that a reason not too?
If anything, shouldn't that make legalization MORE appealing to prohibitionists?
After all, they dislike the counterculture. I would think they'd want nothing more than to see the culture around illegal marijuana, fade away.I'd gladly give up the counterculture of it, to just be allowed to use it legally.It wouldn't really kill the culture, just totally change it. It would turn into something like our beer culture.Frankly, I just don't see this article, as a reason to keep arresting and jailing, and destroying the lives of harmless pot smokers.
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Comment #2 posted by FoM on July 07, 2008 at 07:50:45 PT

Great Culture? 
I'm not sure why legalizing marijuana would be a bad thing. There are so many benefits to MJ legalization like people not getting arrested. That is one very good reason. The price would drop to practically nothing and the money that people are use to paying could be put back in the economy. PS: And for me I could retire CNews and move on to another worthy cause. I hope to see the day when CNews and any web site like CNews is not needed anymore.
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Comment #1 posted by Sam Adams on July 07, 2008 at 07:28:07 PT

culture
Ah yes, the rich cultural heritage of Orlando is SO worth preserving - the strip malls, ugly hotels and traffic jams.
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