cannabisnews.com: Marijuana: Benign Herb or Dangerous Drug?





Marijuana: Benign Herb or Dangerous Drug?
Posted by CN Staff on September 05, 2007 at 05:30:11 PT
By Patti D. Thomas
Source: Times-Standard 
California -- I have followed the marijuana legalization debate with some interest. As a psychotherapist in Humboldt County for 11 years, I have worked increasingly with individuals who report negative impacts from their own pot use or that of someone close to them. Numerous clients have described problems, including impaired judgment, inability to handle daily problems, anxiety, depression, short-term memory loss and inability to concentrate or learn new tasks.
In more extreme cases, people who were previously organized allow their living environment to become dirty and chaotic and neglect their personal appearance or hygiene. In unchecked cases, this has lead to feelings of despair and alienation from others. One area of particular concern is the inability to leave an unhealthy relationship, which might expose the individual and his/her children to abuse or neglect. Couples may start out using pot only occasionally, then find it a convenient way to avoid conflicts. They begin to collude: “Instead of arguing, let's just get high.” Once a pattern of avoidance becomes established, problems tend to build up over time. Since the couple has not developed problem-solving skills, they can slip into a discouraging cycle of hopelessness. The majority of the individuals I work with have medical marijuana cards but admit to using far more of the drug than what is warranted for their condition. Some express that pot fails to ease the symptoms for which they received their 215 card. For instance, several patients have stated their depression has, in fact, worsened since being prescribed pot (for depression). In addition to becoming dependent, they now have to contend with life quality issues such as lack of motivation or interest in previously enjoyable activities. Contrary to what has been written regarding pot not being “physically addictive,” clients who have attempted to quit describe symptoms such as headaches, stomach cramps, diarrhea, panic attacks, and irritability (sometimes escalating into rage) -- classic substance withdrawal symptoms. I have worked with people who turned down travel opportunities because their luggage might be checked by airport security. They limit their social contacts to others who smoke, even when they don't care for the company of those individuals. They are under- or unemployed, because jobs better suited to their education or training would require drug testing. Instead, they stay in dead-end, low-paying jobs that exacerbate their already poor quality of life. All of these “straight from the horses' mouths” accounts have convinced me: Marijuana abuse can cause serious, debilitating problems. Decisions regarding legalization cannot afford to overlook or minimize these important psychological and emotional concerns. Patti D. Thomas is a licensed clinical social worker with a private practice in Arcata. She can be reached at: http://www.peacefulsea.com Opinions expressed in My Word pieces do not necessarily represent the editorial opinion of the Times-Standard. Source: Times-Standard (Eureka, CA)Author: Patti D. ThomasPublished: September 5, 2007Copyright: 2007 MediaNews Group, Inc. Contact: editor times-standard.comWebsite: http://www.times-standard.com/CannabisNews Medical Marijuana Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/medical.shtml
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Comment #59 posted by JoeCitizen on September 07, 2007 at 07:27:49 PT
Sometime exaggerating becomes a form of lying
Consider this sentence:"Contrary to what has been written regarding pot not being “physically addictive,” clients who have attempted to quit describe symptoms such as headaches, stomach cramps, diarrhea, panic attacks, and irritability (sometimes escalating into rage) -- classic substance withdrawal symptoms."I do not believe this statement is factually false. Just about every one of these symptoms have been documented in people who are abruptly stopping a very regular daily use of cannabis. As a smoker for 25 years who has quit on any number of occasions, I have experienced a fair number of them, especially stomach and GI-tract disruption, and extreme irritability for a few days. As well as difficulty sleeping and disturbed dreams, which she doesn't mention.However, not everyone experiences all of these, some may experience none of them. But then again, heroin is only strongly addictive to a quarter of the population, nicotine to about a third. If you aren't in the addicted group, you think, "No big deal, what's the fuss?" If you are in the addicted group, you go through a bad time when you quit.And I will say, again from personal experience, that the withdrawal symptoms of cannabis use are relatively mild. Much more mild than caffeine withdrawal, which gives me extremely bad headaches. I've never been addicted to nicotine, but those quitting obviously go through great discomfort, anxiety, moodiness, and experience strong cravings. Worse yet is something like heroin, where you go through uncontrollable shaking and vomiting, or barbiturates, where you can just up and die if a doctor doesn't help you quit.There comes a point when a difference in degree becomes a difference in kind as well. While the feelings you get when quitting cannabis are technically withdrawal symptoms, they don't even belong on the same continuum with some of these other drugs.JC
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Comment #58 posted by Hope on September 06, 2007 at 10:40:04 PT
Richard
Patti Thomas appears to be a puppet...no doubt. It's hard to believe she's actually thinking on her on. She's obviously a true believer in the status quo that formed her thinking. There are probably a lot of puppeteers that run her strings, including the government, insurance companies, class-arrogance, her boss, her mother, her dad, maybe, and of course, the long held belief in the lies we've all been fed. The cords that manipulate her are many and may be virtually impossible to sever, even if she wanted to. She's probably doomed to puppet-hood for the rest of her life, from the sound of her. Some people , apparently, are born to see that the "Emperor" is buck naked, while other are born to be puppets for the "Emperor" and his entourage.She has a contact at a company website. http://www.peacefulsea.comI don't think I'll contact her. It feels stupid to talk to puppets. 
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Comment #57 posted by Richard Zuckerman on September 06, 2007 at 09:03:10 PT:
DOES ANYBODY KNOW THE AUTHOR OF THIS ARTICLE?
Is the author in cahoots with the government?
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Comment #56 posted by FoM on September 06, 2007 at 07:06:28 PT
mayan
That was the one interesting part of the debate last night. 
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Comment #55 posted by mayan on September 06, 2007 at 03:17:26 PT
Send A Message
Vote on the New Hampshire Republican debate - Who do you think did the best or worst in the following six categories?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18963731/Guess who's kickin' major butt? 
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Comment #54 posted by mayan on September 06, 2007 at 01:39:04 PT
GOP Debate
FOX just aired it again and I caught Ron Paul ripping on Bush's power grab. Paul said something to the effect, "Have we forgotten what happens when we sacrifice liberty for security? We lose both."The crowd erupted with applause! Priceless.
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Comment #53 posted by whig on September 05, 2007 at 23:10:43 PT
Even better
Cannabis is good food, it's fuel for the body and the soul.
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Comment #52 posted by whig on September 05, 2007 at 23:08:56 PT
afterburner
Cannabis is food.Say it with me brother. :)
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Comment #51 posted by whig on September 05, 2007 at 23:06:36 PT
Circular definition
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_definition
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Comment #50 posted by whig on September 05, 2007 at 23:05:43 PT
Circular definition
See: Circular definition
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Comment #49 posted by afterburner on September 05, 2007 at 22:55:49 PT
whig #48 
Maybe, MW is redefining the whole concept of a dictionary to be an ever-changing political rewriting of history (of words) a la 1984 by George Orwell.Notice how the prohibitionists hate it when we describe cannabis as benign. They try to drag it down with an anchor of anecdotal scare points.
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Comment #48 posted by whig on September 05, 2007 at 22:45:49 PT
Webster needs an editor
This is ridiculous.http://m-w.com/dictionary/narcoticb : a drug (as marijuana or LSD) subject to restriction similar to that of addictive narcotics whether physiologically addictive and narcotic or notSo the effing dictionary is defining a narcotic as anything subject to restriction whether it is a narcotic or not or even legally classified as a narcotic or not.
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Comment #47 posted by whig on September 05, 2007 at 22:42:02 PT
Dankhank
Not intoxicating either, as far as I'm concerned. No toxicity at all.
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Comment #46 posted by mayan on September 05, 2007 at 22:33:01 PT
FoM
I missed the debate but I like what I've read about it!Republicans, Paul Clash Over Iraq War: 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,,-6900223,00.htmlFrom the above linked article..."Alone among the contenders, Paul, a veteran Texas congressman with a libertarian streak, made the case for withdrawing troops. That drew a sharp challenge from Chris Wallace, one of the debate questioners, who asked whether the United States should take its marching orders from al-Qaida. ``No! We should take our marching orders from our Constitution,'' Paul shouted back, pointing his pen at Wallace for emphasis. ``We should not go to war without a declaration'' by Congress. Occasionally interrupted by applause, Paul doggedly stuck to his point. ``We have lost over 5,000 Americans over there in Afghanistan, in Iraq and plus the civilians killed,'' he said during his exchange with Huckabee. ``How long - what do we have to pay to save face? That's all we're doing, is saving face. It's time we came home,'' Paul said." 
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Comment #45 posted by Dankhank on September 05, 2007 at 22:26:46 PT
narcotic? no ...
Years ago, in response to a story in the local rag, I called the manager of that rag pointing out that marijuana was NOT a narcotic as described in a recent story, but was in fact a different kinda animal. I suggested that he check a dictionary and mentioned Merriam Webster, m-w.com. Imagine my chagrin when he did and told me that it said narcotic in the MW site. I checked, it did and I promptly called an editor of the site to explain their error. It was an interesting conversation, I was told that the government called it a narcotic and so they did, too. I explained that the government lies, asked why they, (M-W.com), would support a scientific falsehood for any reason and let it go at that. It seems that I must have succeeded, check this.http://m-w.com/dictionary/marijuana  "narcotic" is goneNow I have just checked dictionary.com and they use the word "narcotic" in the definition in a different way, but it is there.http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/marijuanaanyone is welcome to contact them to point out the fallacy, try it, it was fun, and I guess I succeeded ...promise I won't sprain my arm patting myself on the back ... :-)
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Comment #44 posted by afterburner on September 05, 2007 at 22:23:04 PT
dongenero #23 
"I believe many [psychologists and therapists] go into that field in an attempt to try and figure out their own deep troubles."An emotions care worker once volunteered exactly this self-motivation to me in face to face conversation.Good points, museman, Yanxor and others. My computer time has been extremely restricted over the last several months. I am happy to see that the dedicated cnews folk continue to lance the boils of untruth.
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Comment #43 posted by whig on September 05, 2007 at 22:16:05 PT
mayan
I agree this is strange. Nuclear weapons are not moved around by accident. There are safeguards, and safeguards even to access those safeguards.
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Comment #42 posted by whig on September 05, 2007 at 20:08:42 PT
ekim #9
Is cannabis a narcotic under state law? It is not a narcotic under federal law, nor is it a narcotic in fact.
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Comment #41 posted by FoM on September 05, 2007 at 19:43:04 PT
mayan
I hope not. After watching the Republican Debate it seems they really want to go to war with Iran. Where will they get the troops? 
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Comment #40 posted by Toker00 on September 05, 2007 at 19:01:27 PT
Ok...
So what do you blame these same "Problems" on..."Numerous clients have described problems, including impaired judgment, inability to handle daily problems, anxiety, depression, short-term memory loss and inability to concentrate or learn new tasks."...when no drugs at all are used? Because I know and so do most of you, someone who exhibits these same shortcomings but are teetotalers. There may not be many, but I would like to see this person's "analysis" of ONE "drug-less" slouch...just ONE. If he can't blame it on a "drug", what will his analysis be of that patient and wouldn't that same analysis also work for people who consume cannabis, instead of automatically blaming the behavior on Cannabis?
I agree Cannabis may not be a good learning tool, but once you learn something, you can do it stoned with as much safety, if not more, because of the extra care paranoia provides. You may not be as confident in doing it, again because of the excess paranoia induced in some people from ingesting too much THC or an incompatible (with your needs) strain of cannabis. Most likely he would analyze this patient and come to the conclusion that there is a medical problem, or a life problem, not a CRIMINAL problem. It's easy to blame an Illegal substance for our behavioral problems. You can even blame the legal ones. The person is automatically demonized and any problem will be seen as a drug induced (criminal)one, and not seen as a medical or life problem, but the teetotaler will be prescribed DRUGS for his "Behavioral Problems" care of any local pharmacy. If you are a slouch on drugs, you have a Life problem. If you are a drug free slouch, you STILL have a life problem, but they are going to prescribe you Drugs for it and not a jail cell. Drugs for those who don't need them, no drugs for those who do.  Go figure.Toke. 
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Comment #39 posted by mayan on September 05, 2007 at 16:57:37 PT
FoM
Here's a take from a former employee of the Central Intelligence Agency and U.S. State Department’s Office of Counter Terrorism... Those five nukes on that B-52 may have something to do with Iran: 
http://mparent7777-2.blogspot.com/2007/09/those-five-nukes-on-that-b-52-may-have.htmlVery strange.
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Comment #38 posted by museman on September 05, 2007 at 16:16:36 PT
yanxor
That's what's great about Cnews. Perspective. 
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Comment #37 posted by Hope on September 05, 2007 at 14:37:37 PT
We can also mess up....
"We can say what I think about the column Ms. Thomas wrote, right from our own desk, and not have to consider that she might be a very physically intimidating person in person."Or not."We can say what we think", is what I should have written.
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Comment #36 posted by Hope on September 05, 2007 at 14:35:41 PT
Something good about the Internet.
We can say what I think about the column Ms. Thomas wrote, right from our own desk, and not have to consider that she might be a very physically intimidating person in person. Little pipsqueaks like me can "answer" her in a fashion more useful, if only slightly more, than yelling at a TV screen.We can easily send her a "letter" about it ... instantly, as some of you have done.
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Comment #35 posted by Hope on September 05, 2007 at 14:20:45 PT
Talking to people like Thomas
is hopeless.If you complain about something...in our case, the injustice, the damage, the loss, the expense, and cruelty of the system of drug policy that we live under, along with our families, friends, and neighbors... you must, of course, be suffering from a "Persecution complex".All the while they suffer from "Delusions".
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Comment #34 posted by FoM on September 05, 2007 at 14:19:33 PT
Yanxor 
Thank you. Very well done.
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Comment #33 posted by Hope on September 05, 2007 at 13:41:20 PT
Yanxor  Comment 27
Excellent analysis. 
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Comment #32 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on September 05, 2007 at 13:33:42 PT
Issues
Marijuana DependenceA harm reduction model is used to aid the client in reducing level of use through exploring the underlying purpose the drug is serving. By providing alternative sources for meeting those needs, desire for this substance may decrease substantially. Goal is to minimize negative impacts (such as friction in relationships; concentration and memory problems) of the drug on the client’s life. This approach may or may not lead to eventual cessation of use.from http://www.peacefulsea.com/issues.php"harm reduction"? "minimize negative impacts"?What? She doesn't stick her patients in a cage for 10 years? She doesn't levy excessive fines on them? She doesn't even make them forfeit their home?As others here have asked, how can Patti D. Thomas not realize that legalization of cannabis would reduce harm and negative impacts on her patients?Psychology is all about getting to underlying problems, the underlying problem with cannabis use is prohibition.
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Comment #31 posted by Hope on September 05, 2007 at 13:29:44 PT
Ms. Thomas's piece of work...
Is nothing more than another anti-pot political rant based on the time honored lies they have always used."Numerous clients have described problems, including impaired judgment, inability to handle daily problems, anxiety, depression, short-term memory loss and inability to concentrate or learn new tasks."If I'm not mistaken, those are usually relatively normal "problems" of life that come and go...for everyone...even those who never consumed even a smidgen of cannabis. People forget things. People feel bad. People get "worn-out" and depressed. They can't concentrate sometimes. They get tired. It's part of normal life and people experience these things that have never used cannabis at all. To imply that cannabis is the source of all this is rather a noticeable kink in the puppet strings, Ms. Thomas.
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Comment #30 posted by Had Enough on September 05, 2007 at 13:24:49 PT
Dazed and Confused
With a little imagination/insight this tune can relate and go out to Patti. Parts of it anyway.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5Xf0N9Juko
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Comment #29 posted by dongenero on September 05, 2007 at 13:15:05 PT
Great comments too
Great addition to musemans comments, Yanxor.You two should send these off to Times-Standard as LTEs.
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Comment #28 posted by Had Enough on September 05, 2007 at 13:04:12 PT
From Patti D. Thomas’s website
From Patti D. Thomas’s website***Treatment Philosophy***
 Peaceful Sea Counseling is founded on the belief that all individuals have value and can make a contribution to society. Barriers sometimes exist that prevent people from reaching their potential. My commitment is to assist clients in developing insight regarding these barriers, as well as the skills to overcome them.
 Through this process, clients gain a deeper understanding of and respect for themselves. Clients are treated with compassion while being encouraged to development a richer and more meaningful experience of life. ***Insurance Information*** At Peaceful Sea, most insurances are accepted, including Medicare, Blue Cross, Blue Shield, AARP, Tricare, as well as several others. Sorry, Medi-Cal not accepted. ******Now let’s see here. In the first paragraph this line says, “Barriers sometimes exist that prevent people from reaching their potential. My commitment is to assist clients in developing insight regarding these barriers, as well as the skills to overcome them.”In the second paragraph it says MOST insurances are accepted Sorry Medi-Cal not accepted. Hhhmmm!!! I see nothing about cash or credit. Is it insurance only?Overcoming barriers??? Patti put up her own barriers.Seems to me her commitment is more with insurance compensation, rather than developing insight to overcome ‘potential’ barriers, and our dear misguided friend Patti here, tries to tell others else wise.Sorry; But you have to have a membership card to get inside…If you have Medi-Cal!!! Your ain’t supposed to be here…********SIGNS - FIVE MAN ELECTRICAL BANDhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAPJ-JpQ5U8
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Comment #27 posted by Yanxor on September 05, 2007 at 12:47:14 PT
Point, counterpoint
I found museman's critique to be great, yet not in line with some of my thinking, and just wanted to offer a different perspective of how Mrs. Thomas is wrong."Numerous clients have described problems, including impaired judgment, inability to handle daily problems, anxiety, depression, short-term memory loss and inability to concentrate or learn new tasks."First of all, I'd like to point out that nowhere in this article does the author site statistical information or studies of any sort - she's just basically going by stories she heard from people that have visited her workplace.Secondly, the "problems" she mentions are those that are often tossed about by many "legitimate" sources. However, I often feel like they are trying to implicate cannabis in causing these problems to be long term. Most of them aren't. In fact most of the "problems" she describes aren't that bad when fully disected.Impaired judgement is something that I have found to occur with most people who consume cannabis - their judgement is impaired to think that something is funnier, or tastes better, or looks more interesting, or sounds more beautiful. So while there is impairment, it does tend to be somewhat positive and euphoric.The rest of the problems were reletively well covered by museman - and would like to add that learning new tasks while on cannabis is not something I'd imagine most people would attempt to do, especially if it is a job related and delicate task."In more extreme cases, people who were previously organized allow their living environment to become dirty and chaotic and neglect their personal appearance or hygiene. In unchecked cases, this has lead to feelings of despair and alienation from others."Wow...in "extreme" cases, people who consume cannabis get less organized and less hygenic. Now change the word cannabis with any other drug you can think of (in extreme cases, people who consume ...alcohol? tobacco? cocaine?) in fact most extreme cases of abuse for pretty much all other substances lead to death or something much more horrifying than a drop in hygene and organization."One area of particular concern is the inability to leave an unhealthy relationship, which might expose the individual and his/her children to abuse or neglect. Couples may start out using pot only occasionally, then find it a convenient way to avoid conflicts. They begin to collude: “Instead of arguing, let's just get high.” Once a pattern of avoidance becomes established, problems tend to build up over time. Since the couple has not developed problem-solving skills, they can slip into a discouraging cycle of hopelessness." By this point the author ran out of anything legitimate to say, and is just throwing out random bs. Avoidance of problems in couples, and a lack of problem solving skills is something that is a general problem that gets different forms of expression. Some people might avoid the problem by watching the tv, or not talking, or other OCD-type behaviours that might take a persons mind off the conflict with their spouse. The problem isn't that they use cannabis to avoid conflict, the problem is - they are avoiding conflict, and if cannabis is to blamed for anything in that situation, is for diffusing tense situations so well. Also, I'm rather certain that cannabis would be somewhat beneficial for emotional problems, in that I always found it to increase and facilitate communication based on feelings and emotions.Furthermore, we can again use the "put anything else instead of cannabis there" argument - for example "Instead of arguing, let's drink." Obviously many people attempt to do that, but for some reason, alcohol leads to even more destructive arguing. This entire issue of relationships being harmed by cannabis due to communication problems is something that is near and dear to alcohol, and really does not translate well to cannabis. No children or spouses will get beaten if dad comes home high as a kite."The majority of the individuals I work with have medical marijuana cards but admit to using far more of the drug than what is warranted for their condition." And with most other drugs people don't take more of the medicine than is warranted? Consider for a second the implications of taking more opioid painkillers than warranted, and yet again, compare that with cannabis. Its not a dangerous drug, and therefore its not that bad (at least in my mind) if someone using cannabis medicinally takes one dose to medicate, and another to elevate."Some express that pot fails to ease the symptoms for which they received their 215 card. For instance, several patients have stated their depression has, in fact, worsened since being prescribed pot (for depression). In addition to becoming dependent, they now have to contend with life quality issues such as lack of motivation or interest in previously enjoyable activities."If someone was prescribed cannabis for depression, and the condition only got worse, that is something you need to go to the doctor about. One wouldn't possibly consider just taking more and more penicilin if their condition starts deteriorating (its clearly not a bacterial infection that's the problem) - in the same light, if someone is dumb enough to not visit their doctor again that's not a sign that cannabis is somehow dangerous - it's a sign that cannabis was not the correct thing to prescribe, the condition of the patient should be re-evaluated and a new course of action should be taken. I'm certain that cannabis (while indicated for clinical depression) will not alleviate ALL clinical depression, and that's exactly why our doctors spend years and years in med-school, so they can are aware of the cases, and read the literature, and would be able to prescribe something else that might help.As to the issues of dependency, the author has not conclusively shown any kind of dependence at that point in the article, and it's inappropriate for her to introduce this without any sort of information confirming such a claim.As to the lack of motivation and the like, there will always be people who will find it easier to just do nothing all day, yet, consider for a second the fact that over 50% of college students have consumed cannabis, and no long term studies show that cannabis alone causes a decrease in motivation, there must surely be other problems involved (perhaps a lack of motivation at the onset of a cannabis regiment?) and it is very likely that cannabis has many counterindications like possible schizophrenics and perhaps the "unmotivated" (if you can ever clinically define someone as such) and they, along with their doctor should be cautioned about cannabis. But banning cannabis because it is counterindicated for some minor segments of the population is like banning alcohol en masse because of fetal alcohol syndrome."Contrary to what has been written regarding pot not being “physically addictive,” clients who have attempted to quit describe symptoms such as headaches, stomach cramps, diarrhea, panic attacks, and irritability (sometimes escalating into rage) -- classic substance withdrawal symptoms."As to the topic of dependence, cannabis is certainly not "physically addictive" this fact is beyond argument, just like the fact that oxycontin is an opioid analgesiac. THC has a very long half-life and stays in your body for a long time, meaning that is slowly excreated over weeks, which prevents a sudden drop in THC levels, which is one of the reasons THC is not really physically addictive. As to the signs of withdrawl, this has been proven in studies to occur. However, the individuals who have these symptoms are those that consume cannabis on a daily basis for 10 or more years. Furthermore, the study also noted that the severity of the symptoms was not such that it caused the majority of the subjects to relapse into cannabis use. Compare this with the 97-98% who relapse into tobacco use due to the withdrawl symptoms. Everything considered, anyone who is deprived of something (coffee, sexual release) after they have been doing it daily for 10 years will get irritable and might suffer other unpleasant symptoms - in the big scope of things, cannabis dependence isn't much to worry about."I have worked with people who turned down travel opportunities because their luggage might be checked by airport security. They limit their social contacts to others who smoke, even when they don't care for the company of those individuals. They are under- or unemployed, because jobs better suited to their education or training would require drug testing. Instead, they stay in dead-end, low-paying jobs that exacerbate their already poor quality of life."As previously pointed out, these are arguments used against cannabis that would be null-and-void if cannabis was legal."All of these “straight from the horses' mouths” accounts have convinced me: Marijuana abuse can cause serious, debilitating problems. Decisions regarding legalization cannot afford to overlook or minimize these important psychological and emotional concerns."Marijuana abuse CAN cause serious problems, but in much smaller and much less important ways than pretty much any other substance, and isolated cases of people expreiencing cannabis-related problems doesn't justify its position as a Schedule I substance, or as a scheduled substance at all.One trully can not afford to minimize the psychological and emotional concerns related to cannabis because they are already as minimal as they come for any substance used in such amounts by such amounts.
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Comment #26 posted by Hope on September 05, 2007 at 12:23:08 PT
Well said, Museman! Comment 17
So well said. I only wish people like Patti could understand it. They are nothing, if not well programmed vehicles of the corporate "brain" that seeks total control of every aspect of people's lives in the world today. She's not "thinking" or "understanding" in any free or natural way. She's only "thinking" what the corporate interests have told her to think. If she does otherwise, she's out of a job.The shell, that mindset, that's surrounding her and other like her is hard, if not impossible, to penetrate. It's made out of money.I wouldn't care if she and others like that wanted to think that way...if they didn't go around trying to destroy people and put them in cages for thinking differently than them.
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Comment #25 posted by Hope on September 05, 2007 at 11:59:15 PT
Had Enough Comment 15
Right on...again.
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Comment #24 posted by Hope on September 05, 2007 at 11:56:48 PT
Had Enough Comment 11
Exactly! You are exactly right!Prohibition causes the "symptoms" she describes. What is "wrong with her", I wonder, that she can't see that.She must need some "treatment" by someone more "educated" than she. Maybe she would "benefit" from some sort of pharmaceutical concoction. It might be what she needs to make her "think right", if it doesn't destroy her stomach or liver or constipate her to death, but of course, that's ok. Because those are just "side effects" of a "legal" pharmaceutical made by a big corporation that sent the actual work of making the "pharmaceutical blessing to mankind", to India to take advantage of lax rules and cheap, captive labor and then brought it back to the good ole USA to sell at outrageous profit to "rich" Americans seeking help for their problems, from the well programmed prohibitionist robots like herself. She's pitiful... if she weren't so dangerous to so many unsuspecting souls that turned to her for help.
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Comment #23 posted by dongenero on September 05, 2007 at 11:49:53 PT
museman
Well done bro. That was worth every keystroke you made.
I wish this psychotherapist would read your remarks.Of the psychologists and therapists I know or have met, they are categorically some of the most mixed up people I have met.I believe many go into that field in an attempt to try and figure out their own deep troubles. 
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Comment #22 posted by greenmed on September 05, 2007 at 11:03:05 PT
museman
That is an excellent rebuttal. Thank you for being such a strong truth-warrior against prohibition.
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Comment #21 posted by FoM on September 05, 2007 at 10:27:36 PT
Had Enough
I agree with you too. This is really simple if only they cared enough to get it.
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Comment #20 posted by FoM on September 05, 2007 at 10:23:52 PT
museman
That's a good one.
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Comment #19 posted by museman on September 05, 2007 at 10:21:49 PT
FoM
Thanks. Must be my 'impaired judgement.'
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Comment #18 posted by FoM on September 05, 2007 at 10:16:00 PT
museman
You really know how to say it. Thanks!
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Comment #17 posted by museman on September 05, 2007 at 10:08:07 PT
point to point
"Numerous clients have described problems, including impaired judgment, inability to handle daily problems, anxiety, depression, short-term memory loss and inability to concentrate or learn new tasks."What standards are being used here to make these comparisons?Impaired judgement? Is my judgement impaired because I refuse to believe in the status quo, and I 'judge' that my time is worth more to me than they could ever compensate? What other kind of 'impairment' are you talking about?Inability to handle daily problems. Like what? Can't wash the dishes this afternoon? Or can't go to JOB?Anxiety? You spend some time in our countries penal system, or 'justice system' (don't have to go to jail to be f--ked with)...anyone knowingly breaking the law, especially one that is aimed at a way of life, and a system of beliefs, is going to get a little anxious from time to time. How about not knowing if you are going to have to endure intense pain this day, and if you are going to be able to get the medicine you need without the Gestapo destroying the rest of your life...that could cause some anxiety as well.Depression? Well there is no cure that you can get from a doctor for this society's depressing state of reality, but I guess ignorance and apathetic avoidance of the truth is considered a 'healthy' attitude by such overrated professional mind-f--kers like this 'psychotherapist.'Short -term memory loss. Oh for crissake, get over it, and do your damn research, try asking a real medical scientist instead of a bush-lackey."inability to concentrate or learn new tasks.""You can't teach an old dog new tricks." I guess that phrase was meant for cannabis smokers. But then our entire dominant society is still touting values and beliefs that should have been put to rest a few hundred years ago, and they sure as hell haven't learned anything new, or taken any steps towards it."people who were previously organized allow their living environment to become dirty and chaotic and neglect their personal appearance or hygiene. In unchecked cases, this has lead to feelings of despair and alienation from others"You mean people who were previously indoctrinated into puritanical obsessions of 'order and organization' relax a little?Personal appearance. That's right, there you have the rich-mans judgement. Clean the outside of the cup, keep up 'appearances' even though you kill babies for a living. And of course, every one knows that the 'natural state of appearance' is short, well trimmed hair, clean-shaven or clipped beard for men, state of the art fashion, makeup, and hairdos for women. Any deviation from this 'norm' is obvious 'neglect of hygiene.'Despair goes with the 21st century, and I dare say that just because bush-monkeys and their ilk like to deaden their brains with alcohol -legally- and have no conscience, I imagine it's much easier for them to ignore the despair all around them. Alienation is all about social judgements based on the false values of the status quo, like the 'appearance' thing. People's sensitivities to other less sensitive peoples messed up social attitudes is alienation caused by the ignorant, not the alienated."One area of particular concern is the inability to leave an unhealthy relationship, which might expose the individual and his/her children to abuse or neglect."I'm sorry, but this is about 100% alcohol related, and the fact the religious fear-mongers preach hell-and-damnation instead of love and forgiveness contributes majorly to this problem. How many cops have been divorced for domestic violence? Hypocrits."In addition to becoming dependent, they now have to contend with life quality issues such as lack of motivation or interest in previously enjoyable activities."As a cannabis smoking songwriter/musician/performer, I have dealt with this phenomenon. The joy went out of it because of the law, the cops, and all the social attitudes that go with competition and 'success.' What was once a gift became a commodity, and the ability to take part in 'previously enjoyable activities' was completely taken over by people with money, and their standards of 'appearance.' There is no 'joy' in being a wage -slave, but those who destroy their brain cells with republicanisms, narrow-minded religious doctrines, and alcohol are unable to now the difference. Joy to these people is equal to the amount of suffering they can cause. Yes I am extremely un-motivated to give any of them any more of my life and time, they aren't worthy."Contrary to what has been written regarding pot not being “physically addictive,” clients who have attempted to quit describe symptoms such as headaches, stomach cramps, diarrhea, panic attacks, and irritability (sometimes escalating into rage) -- classic substance withdrawal symptoms."I will admit to some 'irritableness' when I have gone some days without, but I think that that has more to do with the potentially extreme hazards of dealing with the black market, and the unreliability of supply and quality -and a concern about going without a medicine GIVEN BY GOD to help living day to day. All those other symptoms are not consistent with anything I have ever heard from the many thousands of smokers I have met. Sounds like this yuppie psyhcodonothing is quoting some of her hyochondriac patients. She should prescribe them placebos.As far as 'dependencies' and 'addictions' how about your TV? Your car? Your cell phone? Your fashion accessories? Personally I think those things are hideous examples of a sick society. What about food and water? There is a nasty dependency problem there, people get real desperate over that 'attachment.'"I have worked with people who turned down travel opportunities because their luggage might be checked by airport security. They limit their social contacts to others who smoke, even when they don't care for the company of those individuals.""Might be checked?" Apparently this person hasn't been out of her own hole in quite a while. Paranoia -in this case- is caused by real threats to one's health, safety, freedom, and lifestyle,...real threats thrown at us every day by the media propaganda, the politcal farce, and their biting dogs - 'law enforcement.' Weak minded people are going to stay weak-minded, whether they smoke pot, or see 'professionals' like this one (though I would be willing to wager that most of her cases are 'referred' through the justice system.) This scenario of 'birds of a feather' applies more to alcohlics than cannabis smokers. Who do the cops hang out with? Not regular people, they hang out with other cops, and the people they see every day in the court house, even if they 'don't care for the company of those individuals.' They're usually so drunk at their 'social' engagements, they don't have two brain cells to rub together anyway, so who cares? Not them."They are under- or unemployed, because jobs better suited to their education or training would require drug testing. Instead, they stay in dead-end, low-paying jobs that exacerbate their already poor quality of life."This person has really led a sheltered life. 90% of American citizens are under-payed no matter what their 'education or training'... there's that evil status quo demon-head raising up again. Opportunity is contingent on your level of efficient ass-kissing and little else, except maybe predatory behavior patterns -those lead to modern terms of 'acceptablity' or 'success.'Our quality of life is poor because 3% of the population has 90% of the wealth and resources. I guess all those starving-dying children in Africa and elsewhere should quit smoking pot, because the logic here states that the blame is obviously that and not THE REAL CAUSES OF SOCIAL/ECONOMIC IMBALANCE."All of these “straight from the horses' mouths” accounts have convinced me: Marijuana abuse can cause serious, debilitating problems."More like 'straight from the horses ass.'
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Comment #16 posted by FoM on September 05, 2007 at 09:59:45 PT
Being Put in a Box By The Powers That Be
When the government makes it almost impossible for people to change the outdated laws on marijuana people will withdrawal and that is because of being afraid of the government. That's a created situation and if the law against marijuana was changed it wouldn't be an issue.
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Comment #15 posted by Had Enough on September 05, 2007 at 09:48:51 PT
view from another angle
“ They are under- or unemployed, because jobs better suited to their education or training would require drug testing. Instead, they stay in dead-end, low-paying jobs that exacerbate their already poor quality of life.”She offers everyone proof that Pee Testing does more harm to society than good.Too bad she can’t hear her own words.And she is a professional psychotherapist???She goes around running other people’s lives; I’ll bet she can’t even run her own life.
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Comment #14 posted by FoM on September 05, 2007 at 09:47:59 PT
dongenero 
I agree and I will avoid any conservatives like the plague. I honestly don't know why anyone would want to be involved with that Party. We know better. 
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Comment #13 posted by dongenero on September 05, 2007 at 09:39:38 PT
New Conservatives
The conservatives are raising their new, ugly heads.
No longer is the conservative party about small government, personal responsibility and fiscal conservatism.New Conservatives are for omnipotent, religious ideology driven government. They are for Big Government spending and Big Debt while lining the pockets of the controlling corporations and war (Iraq,drug,culture,prison complex) profiteers, They are for personal responsibility, but only for those on their "side". Not for those with whom they are waging a Cultural Jihad (us, for instance. No, They are for Big Government and Big Spending unlimited. American values are a cheap veneer around this bunch. This is not your parents brand of conservatism from previous decades. No, these conservatives are 40 times more potent and in a dangerous, freedom threatening way.
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Comment #12 posted by tintala on September 05, 2007 at 09:39:26 PT:
Where i live a college kid dies of alcohol poison
every year. Every year there it is , in the news, that a college kid has died from alcohol overdose. Why do the feds insist on People indulge in loads of aclohol when we all know what aggression and loss of life and health is causes/ support mpp.org
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Comment #11 posted by Had Enough on September 05, 2007 at 09:37:15 PT
Psychobabble...
or an agenda.“I have worked with people who turned down travel opportunities because their luggage might be checked by airport security. They limit their social contacts to others who smoke, even when they don't care for the company of those individuals. 
They are under- or unemployed, because jobs better suited to their education or training would require drug testing. Instead, they stay in dead-end, low-paying jobs that exacerbate their already poor quality of life.”Re-legalize pot, problem solved. These people she mentioned above can have their jobs back, make a better pay scale, and maybe even have enough coin for airfare and not have to worry about getting busted for herbs at the airport, or anywhere else.Think about it...***************greenmed – Cool link. Thanks.As Toker00 would say...Dogs, people should be more like them.
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Comment #10 posted by FoM on September 05, 2007 at 09:20:00 PT
Press Release from MPP
Conservative Party Slams Medical Marijuana Ads Despite Members' SupportSeptember 5, 2007http://www.mpp.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=glKZLeMQIsG&b=1157875&ct=4359963
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Comment #9 posted by ekim on September 05, 2007 at 08:58:42 PT
end Cannabis Prohibition then we can talk 
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v07/n1027/a04.html?397
BOURNE - On Dec. 13, 1982, Gary Hapenny was convicted of one count of possession of marijuana. It was a misdemeanor with a $62 fine, but 25 years later he's still paying for it. Hapenny, now 46, has been banned for life from coaching youth sports after selectmen implemented a new policy in July, mandating all youth sports volunteers go through a Criminal Offense Record Investigation ( CORI ) check. Under the policy, anyone convicted of any narcotics charges automatically earns a lifetime ban. see related story
http://cannabisnews.com/news/23/thread23294.shtml
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Comment #8 posted by dongenero on September 05, 2007 at 08:37:52 PT
Alcohol: Benign fun juice or dangerous drug?
At least you are not arrested for drinking it, unless you become a complete idiot from it's effects, as many do......
Alcohol/Cannabis - which one is more benign, which one causes violence, which one kills?
Now, for which "drug" does your Government arrest and incarcerate you, tag you with a criminal record, seize your assets and otherwise ruin your life?Alcohol blamed in huge brawlPolice donned riot gear and used smoke and tear gas to break up a hostile crowd throwing bottles and cans during a huge, alcohol-fueled Labor Day brawl at Pacific Beach, authorities said.Fifteen people were arrested and face charges of fighting and being drunk in public. Another person was briefly detained for his own safety. No officers were injured.City Councilman Kevin Faulconer went to the scene and said alcohol likely played a part in the fighting. He said that because of the brawl he is proposing to ban alcohol on the beach, one of only a handful in Southern California that still allow drinking.
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Comment #7 posted by greenmed on September 05, 2007 at 08:20:20 PT
Sasha
the therapy dog looks to be a gentle beast. As many of us know, animals can be the best therapy.http://www.deltasociety.org/
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Comment #6 posted by greenmed on September 05, 2007 at 08:12:43 PT
cannabliss
You wrote...This counselor doesn't seem to realize the obvious fact that her sample is self-selected, consisting of people with coping problems. The well-adjusted, successful pot smokers are not coming to her and her dog for help, only the non-coping ones.I agree.For Mrs. Thomas, who claims R.D. Laing as a major influence, not to see that obvious bias is inexplicable.
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Comment #5 posted by cannabliss on September 05, 2007 at 07:44:28 PT
Snooze...
Ho hum...another social worker who knows better than anyone...I've worked with enough of these people to be more than fed up with their arrogant, nanny attitude. A little education can be a dangerous thing ;-)I'm sure people exist who screw up their lives and use pot. It's a bit of a chicken-and-the-egg thing - are they screwed up because they're addicts, or are they addicts because they are screwed up.This counselor doesn't seem to realize the obvious fact that her sample is self-selected, consisting of people with coping problems. The well-adjusted, successful pot smokers are not coming to her and her dog for help, only the non-coping ones.I find it interesting on her website she lists (of all drugs, including alcohol) only "marijuana dependence" as an issue worth treating.
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Comment #4 posted by sam adams on September 05, 2007 at 07:11:50 PT
modern-day temperance lady
Couples may start out using pot only occasionally, then find it a convenient way to avoid conflicts. They begin to collude: “Instead of arguing, let's just get high."I gotta try this one! Does it really work? Mike, your comment covers my reaction perfectly as well. Of course there are some people who smoke their life away!  But she pretends that the article is about legalization, then she completely ignores that topic until the last paragraph. We're talking about the best laws to deal with cannabis. It's quite possible that legalization will mitigate many of the problems she mentions, not worsen them. It's funny how times have changed. The temperance ladies used to come from the Church bearing axes and torches. Now, they come from grad school, bearing diplomas and hypocritcal op-ed pieces.  It's all the same human urge for hypocrisy. "I know what's right for you. I know how to run your life better than you. YOU are the source of all of society's problems."  The self-rightousness used to be based on religion, now it's based on pseudo-science.  The belief that if you take a person and send them to grad school long enough, they deserve to power over the other people that didn't go to grad school. Tom Cruise, this post is dedicated to you. You're right, the psychology industry is a bunch of lying drug pushers.
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Comment #3 posted by FoM on September 05, 2007 at 06:34:55 PT
OT: B-52 Carried 5 Nuclear Warheads
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003869009_ndig05.html
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Comment #2 posted by FoM on September 05, 2007 at 06:24:01 PT
Marijuana Pits Conservatives Against Conservatives
September 04, 2007   It’s not every day when the tiny but influential state Conservative Party attacks one of its own rank-and-file members, but the issue of legalizing marijuana for medical purposes has a way of dividing people along strong lines.   With Buffalo’s Joel Peacock set to be featured in advertisements beginning today in the area urging the legalization of the drug for certain strict medical conditions, the Conservative Party Tuesday called his views “misguided."   Peacock, a construction industry inspector, emerged as an overnight poster child for groups pushing the medical marijuana bill after a Buffalo News story earlier this summer featured the longtime Conservative Party member saying for a brief time he turned to marijuana to find relief from the debilitating pain that has been with him since a 2001 car accident on Elmwood Avenue. Peacock, who takes a daily regimen of high-dose prescription pain killers to deal with his condition, said physicians should be able to prescribe marijuna for patients suffering from life-threatening illnesses or chronic pain.   Groups backing the medical marijuana bill, which has already passed the Assembly, are targeting eight Senate Republican districts with print and broadcast ads. Sen. Dale Volker, R-Depew, is the local target.   "Today, a registered conservative, Joel Peacock, injured in a 2001 car accident, is calling upon the state Senate to pass 'medical' marijuana as the Assembly did in June of this year. Unfortunately, Mr. Peacock is only looking at the situation through his belief that 'medical' marijuana will help him with his serious illness," the Conservative Party said in a statement issued Tuesday afternoon.
    “Despite his belief, and the urging of the Marijuana Policy Project, the organization making a concerted effort to legalize 'medical' marijuana throughout the United States, 'medical' marijuana will not offer the relief he seeks," the party said. It said it opposes adding “a known mind-altering drug" like marijuana to treatments for pain and other conditions.     The head of the Conservative Party, Michael Long, sought to distance his party from Peacock and to make clear that the Buffalo party member “does not speak for the Conservative Party."--Tom PreciousCopyright: 2007 - The Buffalo News http://buffalonews.typepad.com/politics_now/2007/09/conservatives-v.html
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Comment #1 posted by Mike on September 05, 2007 at 05:55:43 PT
Amazing
They miss the point every time. I sent her a response:The big problem is that the prohibition laws are far worse than cannabis use itself, which is relatively benign.What's the legal alternative? Alcohol. Do a write-up on that one.
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