cannabisnews.com: Pot Smokers, Denver Cops Converge At Civic Center










  Pot Smokers, Denver Cops Converge At Civic Center

Posted by CN Staff on April 21, 2007 at 05:09:25 PT
By Deb Frazier And Daniel Chacon 
Source: Rocky Mountain News 

Colorado -- In Denver, droves of pot- smoking teenagers and other revelers converged on Civic Center Park, the site of the annual ritual. At 4:20 p.m., clouds of smoke wafted over hundreds of people, including kids in strollers, crowded into the Greek Amphitheater.
The rally drew high school and college students and others, mostly in their 20s. "It's a weed smoking festival," said Joe Smith, 18, who recently moved to Denver from Nevada. "I believe in the medicinal benefits of marijuana." "Everyone came together to smoke marijuana and chill," said G.K. Hoovers, 20, of Aurora. "It's been cool. There were no problems." The rally also drew about 100 Denver Police, including the SWAT team, the mounted patrol, undercover members of the vice and narcotics bureau, the gang unit and other departments, said police spokeswoman Virginia Quinones. "Even though marijuana smoking isn't illegal in Denver, it's still illegal in Colorado," she said. Officers contacted people who were openly smoking marijuana and checked identification, said Quinones. Those with outstanding warrants for other crimes were arrested, and the rest were given citations for possession and public consumption of marijuana. The crowd, many wearing leis of fabric marijuana leaves, was friendly and lighthearted. "I came on vacation to Denver for this," said Francine Popovich, 18, of Sedona, Ariz. "All of my friends at home are so jealous. Look how many people showed up. It shows how many people want marijuana legalized." Police and sheriff's deputies kept close watch. When asked what police were doing about the younger revelers, Detective John White said, "If they're over the age of 10, they can be cited and then they'll be turned over to their parents."Source: Rocky Mountain News (Denver, CO)Author:   Deb Frazier And Daniel Chacon, Rocky Mountain News Published: April 21, 2007Copyright: 2007 Denver Publishing Co.Contact: letters rockymountainnews.comWebsite: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/CannabisNews -- Cannabis Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/cannabis.shtml

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Comment #77 posted by whig on April 23, 2007 at 21:20:17 PT
museman
Maybe if we voted in bars.... :)
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Comment #76 posted by FoM on April 23, 2007 at 20:45:52 PT
museman
That was good. 
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Comment #75 posted by museman on April 23, 2007 at 20:34:36 PT
ahem..
A democrat, a republican, a libertarian, a green, and an independant walked into a bar.The bartender looked up and said,"What is this, some kind of joke?"
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Comment #74 posted by FoM on April 23, 2007 at 19:00:22 PT
Whig
That is another good one. I was in a mood to listen to Leonard Cohen today. He is really good. 
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Comment #73 posted by whig on April 23, 2007 at 17:56:09 PT
FoM
I really like Leonard Cohen's music too. Here's a good one.Democracyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9EmpS6AoR0
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Comment #72 posted by Hope on April 23, 2007 at 17:07:57 PT
I agree, Whig.
"The problem with the libertarian movement generally is its desire to defund social government, to throw out the poor and the weak and the infirm, to uphold the property of the wealthy and strong and powerful."But I'm not a Republican and I'm not a Democrat. I vote Libertarian when I can...but I can't really call myself a Libertarian because of that exact problem.
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Comment #71 posted by whig on April 23, 2007 at 16:41:23 PT
schmeff
I've been pretty clear that I think Ron Paul is the only elected Republican in national office who has held to some kind of principles. The problem with the libertarian movement generally is its desire to defund social government, to throw out the poor and the weak and the infirm, to uphold the property of the wealthy and strong and powerful.
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Comment #70 posted by FoM on April 23, 2007 at 14:39:59 PT
Whig
I am watching Leonard Cohen sing a song called The Future and I thought you might appreciate it. I think it is a really good song.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_drEFOaPaK8
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Comment #69 posted by schmeff on April 23, 2007 at 12:47:18 PT
Whig
Haven't posted here for awhile, but in reading this long and interesting thread, I felt the need to remark that you seem to be painting the Libertarians with a very broad brush.It is not possible or appropriate to dump all the diverse and incredible people who embrace the Libertarian Party into a small box and make a blanket statement that they don't know how to love or whatever.Rep. Ron Paul of Texas is or was a Libertarian (although, for reasons of convenience, his calls himself a Republican) and in my book, he's one of the sanest people in politics. Furthermore, the Libertarian Party is the ONLY party, major or minor, to make it their priority to end the WOD.And that, mon ami, is really what this forum is all about.
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Comment #68 posted by Hope on April 23, 2007 at 10:59:55 PT
This thread bears a lot of rereading.
I only caught that statement in Richard's post, this reading."All are One!"
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Comment #67 posted by Hope on April 23, 2007 at 10:58:33 PT
Thanks, Richard.
"At least I learned from this act of bad judgment!"That's how I'm hoping for you. As far as you not being who you say you are...you might not be...but the intensity with which you speak, makes me tend to believe that you are who you say you are...and that you have not stopped growing and learning.Hang on!Rough ride! 
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Comment #66 posted by FoM on April 23, 2007 at 09:52:43 PT
Whig's Comment #42
That's why I posted that Scripture. 
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Comment #65 posted by FoM on April 23, 2007 at 09:49:56 PT
About Strangers and Reaching Out
Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels.http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2013%20;&version=50;
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Comment #64 posted by Hope on April 23, 2007 at 09:34:47 PT
Comment 45
Who do they love? Who loves them? What can we do?That's an important, disturbing, and heavy question that everyone needs to consider. 
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Comment #63 posted by Hope on April 23, 2007 at 09:30:51 PT
Comment 55
Thank God, we can all smile about it now. 
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Comment #62 posted by Hope on April 23, 2007 at 09:25:20 PT
Comment 58
I knew I'd forget someone. Last night after I turned in for the night. I thought, "Museman". How could I have forgotten to mention Museman? Toker_00? Dan B? Everyone's name that I've admired their postings...I can't remember them all at one time! I'm sure I'm still forgetting some names of some of the men here that have amazed and blessed me with their insight and understanding.We have good men and I'm thankful for that...for all of you.
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Comment #61 posted by FoM on April 22, 2007 at 22:00:46 PT
Just a Comment
I've been away from the computer most of the day today and it's nice to see such passionate comments. Thank you all. Sometimes it isn't easy to know what to say but it is true we are good people and we need to work hard so that we can be seen in a positive light I believe. One of the worst wastes of energy is anger. I have never fixed anything by being angry. Reason works so much better. 
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Comment #60 posted by BGreen on April 22, 2007 at 21:50:05 PT
I'm thankful for the men AND women here
I get very angry at injustice, but I've learned to channel my anger in a constructive way. That's about the only good thing I've discovered comes with "maturity."I don't want to alienate somebody just because of their past. I'm also aware of the fact that any violence from our side will be met with a force a thousand times stronger against us. Look how badly they treat us when we're calm and peaceful.I'm sure Richard is hurting and was probably pushed hard before he made the threat. I just know that continued anger won't change the past or the future ... at least for the good.FoM and Hope, you are two great women in my eyes, and you bring a balance to CNews that really makes this a great place to hang out, share a little of my own thoughts and learn a whole bunch from the rest of our family.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #59 posted by Hope on April 22, 2007 at 21:15:54 PT
I'm not defending Richard here.
I'm not defending you, Richard. Am I? I don't really mean to.You know the more I think about it...the more I think maybe you aren't for real, Richard.Anyone ever look up any of the cases he speaks of so often?I feel like I've waded hip deep into something I'd prefer not to be in.Sorry. My apologies to everyone.I am quietness itself, now.
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Comment #58 posted by Hope on April 22, 2007 at 21:10:56 PT
I am so glad when you good men speak up
and say what needs to be said in a situation like this.I tend to watch and wait and be quiet during this sort of thing. Not always. But I tend to that. I don't like to argue with anyone...especially men...especially alarming men. I'm not the sharpest tack in the box, and I really don't know how to talk to sort of strange men about such things. I'm grateful for your responses, certainly for the most part, BGreen...and all of you. Overwhelm Sam, Afterburner, Whig, Max, Had Enough, Taylor, John, Sukoi, DankHank, Mikeee, Ekim, Celaya, Kap, NuevoMexican, Stick and so many more. (I know I'll forget someone.) Like I am with Paul, I don't agree exactly with every single word everyone of you say all the time...but I agree with a lot of it and most of it and nearly all of it. I like to hear what you have to say. I like to consider what you have to say. I consider you a wise, patient, tolerant, reasonable bunch of me. I feel glad to be in contact with you and I do appreciate the kind of men, of people, that you are.Someone else said Richard was "tightly wound". I would agree with that. I hope he doesn't blow up and burn out and be a disaster and a tragedy in and of himself. That's what I hope he doesn't do. If he takes council from men like we have here...he maybe won't do the wrong thing like that and like he once threatened, if he is who he says he is. Maybe he will find ways to improve his way of thinking. A tendency to wild rage can be controlled or we'd probably all be dead.
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Comment #57 posted by FoM on April 22, 2007 at 19:46:57 PT
BGreen
Thank you. I understand why passive people just blend into the woodwork and think what's the use. I have strong convictions about what is right and what is wrong. I keep my thoughts to myself more then I express them publically. I don't like being made to feel that I am always wrong so why even mention anything? Aggressive behavior intimidates quiet people because it does that to me.
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Comment #56 posted by BGreen on April 22, 2007 at 16:11:30 PT
Violent Felonies vs. Possesing Plant Material
Anybody that tries to extrapolate a felonious written threat to murder anybody, let alone a federal judge, with the felony of possessing and using cannabis is seriously delusional.I've seen a lot of people do some seriously stupid things during my lifetime, and I've also seen enough true remorse to identify those who are truly sorry for their actions.Remorse is not exhibited by anger towards others, continued defensive posturing towards anybody that disagrees with anything the guilty party says, nor is remorse exhibited by the phrase "the federal case expired in 1995."Even JustGettinBy (sp?) exhibits remorse for being part of law enforcement and still presents himself humbly when speaking of his past. He's truly ashamed of his actions all the way back in the 1960's. He didn't threaten a judge with a hideous tortured death but I can tell he's sorry.I don't have any legal counsel to discuss any case with any more than whig, FoM, hope or anybody else does because I have no criminal record. I also know that any association with cannabis that I might have had over the past 32 years couldn't even be believably compared to felonious death threats even by the most rabid prohibitionist.A careful examination of all of the peace movements during my lifetime will show that those trying to introduce violent actions and thoughts are government plants, usually on the payroll of some LEA or government agency. That's a good enough reason to avoid any historically violent people.Richard also says that no one got hurt by his threats. That's complete bull.My niece was talking about how unfair the laws are because her friend got sentenced to ten years in prison. All he did, she told us, was carjacked a woman at gunpoint, locked her in the trunk and drove her around for a few hours before they got caught. But, as my niece said, the lady wasn't hurt by this ordeal.That is convoluted thinking. This kind of thinking has no place in the cannabis debate and neither does violence.I have no problems with Richard as long as he doesn't sabotage our peaceful message.I will be the first to criticize hateful and vicious people, but usually those people are vocal opponents of our peaceful attempt to change the unfair laws towards cannabis. Don't be surprised if I speak out when that kind of thinking comes from one of our side, either.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #55 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 14:07:30 PT
Hope
Well, it hurt a lot! :)I can smile about it now but I wouldn't want to re-experience it.
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Comment #54 posted by Hope on April 22, 2007 at 14:02:02 PT
I am not comfortable around violent people
Comment 43.Whig, nor am I.My father could be a violent alcoholic. My Mother, carrying the baby, led the charge out of the house and away from him quickly, the moment we could see the violence arising. I brought up the end...herding my little brothers behind her.I've always told my children to avoid violent people like it might get on them. Because it probably will.So far, he whom we have spoken of, and to, here, Richard, apparently, is guilty of one very offensive and damaging, and very foolish threat. It did not go completely unnoticed. Maybe, if he is really who portends to be, he came here for a reason, and the many of us that council here, and are praying folk, can pray for him. Who knows?First time he mentions hiding a body...or even thinking about it...Well, you know, Mr. "I think I'm having a brain aneurysm." (Said totally with joyful affection.)
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Comment #53 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 13:47:18 PT
We are stardust
Joni Mitchell - Woodstockhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6YEfb1ydXU
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Comment #52 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 13:44:29 PT
God is right here with us
At all times.You may not see him, but he is in each of our faces.
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Comment #51 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 13:41:17 PT
Atheism
If you think you have nobody at all, not even God, that must be awful.Fortunately, God doesn't ever stop believing in and loving you, even when you don't. If God withdrew from you completely, your life would cease immediately.
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Comment #50 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 13:39:13 PT
Hope
They are atheists, too.
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Comment #49 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 13:38:29 PT
Hope
You are an absolutely essential member of our consciousness. Those who suffer long while the evils are sufferable, will remain silent no longer when a chance is made to right them.
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Comment #48 posted by Hope on April 22, 2007 at 13:37:46 PT
"Who do they love", Whig?
Good question.
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Comment #47 posted by Hope on April 22, 2007 at 13:36:10 PT
There's absolutley nothing wrong
with Pollyanna. Or Pollyanna with an occasional foul mouth or unintentional "blue" tone with the Bible "whispering", or even "shouting", to me. I know I appear to be an outraged 58 year old Pollyanna type. I think you might be right if you've ever though it.I understand why so many people don't speak up.Humanity evolves. Sometimes it's not such a good evolvement. We have, all of us, even those who have been unable to utter a word, I am sure, in Grace, been part of an importmant evolvement of humanity that is a humble and good one and a better state of mankind than this "lashing whip" state we seem to find ourselves seeing all over the world and here, as well.
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Comment #46 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 13:29:37 PT
Electronic music
This is one way I reach some people.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtESXcGu2DQ
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Comment #45 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 13:27:13 PT
Angry loners
Those who have no family, no one close to themselves...Who do they love?How do we reach them?We have a problem in our society right now.
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Comment #44 posted by Hope on April 22, 2007 at 13:27:02 PT
Peppermint Soap
The lack of paragraphs and the intensity of content, Zuckerman, for me, also, is like trying to read everything that Rabbi Hillel says on a bottle of peppermint soap. I think I've done it, but I would not swear to it. ...but certainly, not in one sitting...and do you know how difficult it is to find your place on a bottle of Dr. Bronner's soap after you look away?It's certainly not that I don't try. It's like "douche" and "mouthwash" and other stuff...and generous dashes of "We are One".It's not that I don't try.We are not the "police". I have as yet to see a reason to raise an alarm. Certainly not yet.I think.We are One!
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Comment #43 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 13:21:47 PT
It's a common thing
You have to look deep in the human psyche and see that people always feel uncomfortable around other people who are different from themselves. If you respond to that discomfort in a good way, you become comfortable and then you can be around one another.Some people you just can't be comfortable with, like I am not comfortable around violent people. So the best thing to do is get distance in this case, and if you can find a way to communicate with that distance protecting you from their anger, you can converse.I think this is how to make peace with the world.
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Comment #42 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 13:16:11 PT
FoM
I don't think that's really true, Libertarians love their children too. You know? And their families, and stuff like normal people. They just don't love strangers.
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Comment #41 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 13:13:35 PT
FoM
So long as people are afraid to admit that they use cannabis, it is hard for anyone to realize how many people do.
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Comment #40 posted by FoM on April 22, 2007 at 12:59:20 PT
Standing Naked 
If we really want to learn about life we need to stand naked in our mind before ourselves and see our own faults. It's hard to do but when we do we can see other's faults and be compassionate because, but by the Grace of God there go I.
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Comment #39 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 12:51:38 PT
Healing pain
Healing pain does not cause anger, it causes compassion.
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Comment #38 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 12:49:25 PT
Government agents
They read here, they participate here, let there be no question about it. And any one of us could be a government agent in the future, if the government changed.Here is my policy -- I assume that every organization is infiltrated. Everyone, everyone has the possibility of being your closest best friend and at any time becoming your enemy, maybe because some other circumstance in his or her life changed. Maybe a child is being held hostage. We don't know.You can't live in that kind of fear, people are going to do what they are going to do, I treat everyone as a friend until they do or say something that causes me to consider them an actual threat.I consider threatening words to be actual threats.I then respond in a very vigorous fashion, you may consider it shrill, perhaps it is my idea that we ought to police ourselves, and it is my siren.I do not ostracize anyone who comes in peace. I may disagree, and I am also vigorous in my argument because I want to be persuaded if I am wrong in my own thinking. I want the correction, the criticism which you give and which others do as well on occasion. I want to be improved by the understanding of what I was doing that I could be doing differently or better.What I have seen in the past months that I have been conversing here and elsewhere, is that my conversational approach, while strenuous to some readers, has an effect of creating strong bonds within the community that penetrate the political conversation and even the theological conversation. I am a very powerful writer. I know it.My words are not swords, they are beams of light. They cut nobody down, but they may put your image through a funhouse mirror. Unless and until people can laugh at themselves, they might be horrified.Life is sometimes a tragedy, sometimes a drama, sometimes a comedy, sometimes a panic.Cannabis helps us laugh, it helps us relax and understand what is going on without feeling as much concealed pain. My ironic effect is a greater initial feeling of pain when I take cannabis, but it feels like a healing pain. Over time, over long time, months or years, the pain reduces.Pain causes anger, anger causes fear, fear causes hatred, hatred causes suffering.Treat your pain.
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Comment #37 posted by FoM on April 22, 2007 at 12:41:19 PT
whig
Libertarians don't love? I didn't know that. We all need to love someone sometime in our lives. It's actually better to have loved and to have lost then never to have loved at all.
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Comment #36 posted by FoM on April 22, 2007 at 12:37:11 PT

whig
Has he threatened us or just complained about Republicans and Demorats and how dumb we are for voting for them? I have to admit I don't read all thru his posts because they are about legal things or politics that I don't understand.I must be terrible because I am an Obama person. I guess I must be really bad for that.
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Comment #35 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 12:36:44 PT

Hope
I would never backhand you or anyone.
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Comment #34 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 12:34:53 PT

If you want love, you must love someone
Love yourself, and one other person, and then one more, and soon everyone will love you too, and everyone will then love everyone. We do not express our love in the same way to everyone, some we know more intimately than others, but it is no less loving to care about one another.
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Comment #33 posted by Hope on April 22, 2007 at 12:34:07 PT

If you hate everyone, nobody seems to love you.
Hate makes you "prickly".(As in cactus, or the coarse slur.)
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Comment #32 posted by Hope on April 22, 2007 at 12:32:24 PT

"inappropriate to post"
Then it probably is inappropriate.I am very fond of you, Whig. You know that...I think. This that I am saying is "criticism"...and I brace myself to get some back...but I'm doing it anyway, since you are too far away to backhand me. You are quick, and you are sharp, but you are also, often, quite shrill.In my experience, I think you should make every effort to fight that. It's not good...unless you are a "watch whistle"...which actually would be a good metaphor for some of you comments...and that can be very good. Warners and watch whistlers are needed and necessary to life. But not always, all the time. Then it becomes just an unnecessary shrillness. A sword too often used.Knowing what I do about you and what I know about Zuckerman...I would not at all be surprised that your family or someone you know has indeed experienced being on the receiving end of the sort of threats that Zuckerman admits to making. I think you are very correct in making it clear that C-Newsers...even the ones that don't speak, are not agreeing with Richard about nearly everything, perhaps, he posts...not everything, but a lot. I have to admit, I am often overwhelmed by some of Richard's posts and don't really get much he is saying. He's been punished for his threat...he's being watched, betcha while he's in a constant state of legal appeal, which I think he should end, and I'm sure watched closely. Apparently the watchers are able think it's relatively safe for him to be out. It might not be. Threats often, usually, lead to acts. It scares me.Richard could have tracked us all down and be ready to kill us all in our sleep...one by one...or something. (Rigors. Rigors.)Or he could be a narc and trying to decieve someone into saying something really stupid.Come to think...he has gotten away with that for a long time. He's probably a government agent. But I will keep that in mind without having to panic. That doesn't mean that obvious wrong thinking...thinking that most likely will lead to some sort of, at least, earthly, tragedy, should be ignored.It is not being ignored.Ostrazization (I don't want to look it up, please)is a part of life, but it should be weilded with mercy. Ostracize away, but when he understands a less violent...words easily carry violence...way of thinking. He will be better off. I hope he can make it to that point...and with deep conviction. It can happen. That is, if he's really who he purports to be and really believes he's doing the "right thing".We all know he was wrong. He's been told he was wrong. You have and are doing that very well. It is appropriate for you to do that. Do NOT do anything inappropriate.It's not paranoid to imagine that he is a government or prohibitionist plant.
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Comment #31 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 12:32:07 PT

How to tell the difference
Judge the tree by the fruit.
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Comment #30 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 12:31:32 PT

How it works
If you hate everyone, nobody seems to love you.Sometimes when someone says the most loving things, you misconstrue it as hatred. It is not hateful to criticize. Love is sometimes a corrector of wrongs.
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Comment #29 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 12:29:17 PT

FoM
The problem with Libertarians is they don't believe in love.
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Comment #28 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 12:23:14 PT

FoM
I guess I don't understand, if he's here and threatens people, shouldn't he leave?
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Comment #27 posted by Hope on April 22, 2007 at 12:03:40 PT

"clear that this is unacceptable"
Indeed, it is.
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Comment #26 posted by FoM on April 22, 2007 at 12:00:11 PT

whig
I guess I don't understand. I don't think Richard wants to change. He is a Libertarian and maybe he likes being one. The anger towards so much of life's differences has been the reason I have no interest in the LP.
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Comment #25 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 11:53:21 PT

Hope
Moreover, there are things that I cannot discuss here. I would like to say things to Richard that would be inappropriate to post. I could recommend things to him which might help, but would take us far off topic.I think there needs to be a better place for such conversations. If he knows of where I can be found elsewhere online, he is welcome to visit me there and I will feel less constrained.
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Comment #24 posted by whig on April 22, 2007 at 11:45:56 PT

Hope
I do not have any personal animosity towards anyone, but when I hear people advocating violence, threatening others, I want to make it clear that this is unacceptable. I do not want to be placed in the position of feeling that any of us could be targeted as dangerous because one person was allowed to make hateful statements that went unchallenged.If I say nothing to Zuckerman, nobody else says anything. I've seen it repeatedly. Nobody says anything, so it stands. And anyone reading here might think we agree with him.I don't agree with him. I would be glad to talk with him and help him to understand that violence is wrong. But I am not glad to have him advocating it here.
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Comment #23 posted by Hope on April 22, 2007 at 11:10:55 PT

Feeling sorry for yourself
can lead you to hatred and anger and vengence on others, even if it's only something that you have imagined while wallowing in self pity...and it is wallowing.
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Comment #22 posted by Hope on April 22, 2007 at 11:07:43 PT

And...
I think Richard does need you guys getting it home to him that he made a mistake, a bad mistake, in that judge thing and to repent of it...to realize it was a mistake, experience the true regret you should have, make ammends, take the punishment, never do it or anything like it again...and go on.Richard, you need to learn that rage, a feeling of being wronged, and rage can sometimes gain such strength, if you allow it to, and carry you places you should not have gone...like the recent tragedy in Virginia.Self pity isn't always a mewling pitiful thing. Sometimes it's an out of control monster.In my life I've learned that feeling sorry for myself, in any way, is one of the most self destructive things I can do.
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Comment #21 posted by Hope on April 22, 2007 at 10:51:39 PT

Kramer!
In this circle, this council...seems like Zuckerman might be our "Kramer".Don't let him catch your toes when he comes through that comment door!
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Comment #20 posted by Hope on April 22, 2007 at 10:50:01 PT

Richard has been with us a long time.
We, most of us here, try to be kind and patient. We are a kind and patient people and culture.Over the years Richard's been a regular presence here. We don't all think alike. Richard in fact, makes me dizzy nearly with some of his comments. Zuckerman has never struck me as a calm person. Never. Apparently he doesn't completely burn himself out at this rate. He is who he is...and he does listen when we differ with him. He has a reasoning mind...most of the time. :0) We will criticize each other and we will argue with each other occasionaly. We all have friends of all different sorts and ways of thinking. We don't only befriend those who think exactly like us. Richard is different. I, unlike, Richard, have no fear of being taken over by Mexicans. I grew up in South Texas. We were already taken over. There was nothing strange or ominous about it. :0)His writing makes him sound frantic and too tightly wound. He seems alarmed a great deal of the time. But he has not been overbearing. He listens when you disagree with him. At least that's what I've noticed happening over the years.He does not have what I think of as bad manners and I'm glad he doesn't hide what he really thinks. Change his mind, Whig on things you disagree with him about. Guide him out of what you think is wrong thinking and he doesn't....because he's someone you talk to regularly. He's in your life. Don't give up on him so easily.And Zuckerman... take care that you don't burn yourself out.
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Comment #19 posted by Hope on April 22, 2007 at 10:33:42 PT

"weekend begin with a smile!!!!!!"
Congratulations, Zuckerman!

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Comment #18 posted by Richard Zuckerman on April 22, 2007 at 03:27:08 PT:

THAT COURT DECISION IS IMPORTANT, THOUGH, PEOPLE!!
Would you have your legal counsel read my comment about the important court decision? That case made my weekend begin with a smile!!!!!!
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Comment #17 posted by gloovins on April 22, 2007 at 00:05:50 PT

Zuckerman...
It's true you have a sort of different approach to life but maybe just sitting at home & smoking some herb & forgetting about your local court for awhile would do you some good, I don't know, I could be wrong. I'm not a professional therapist but know the theraputic effect of cannabis. Hey anyone seen this story of stupidity? NEAR ISSAQUAH, Wash. - A Washington state trooper pulled over a driver who swerved as he blew his nose and discovered 20 pounds of marijuana in his car, Trooper Jeff Merrill said. ... rest at http://www.katu.com/news/local/7127211.html
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Comment #16 posted by whig on April 21, 2007 at 22:14:12 PT

Richard Zuckerman
How are you being persecuted by us? You are being criticized. That is not persecution. We have no power over you whatsoever. You can start a blog free of charge and write whatever you want.We are just saying we don't want to associate ourselves with you. At least, that's what Max Flowers, and BGreen, and I are all saying, I cannot speak for others. Are we not entitled to freedom of association?Now this is not our place, it is FoM's, and she hasn't done anything at all to block you in any way, and yet you say she is persecuting you too? I don't understand how she possibly could be doing so, by merely providing this forum which you have used at her own tolerance. How about expressing a little appreciation?So it's not up to me what happens, but you do have the ability at any time to fix what you've done wrong. But you have to take personal responsibility -- right here and right now, not something that you "did your time" for.You were jailed for threatening a judge. Correct?
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Comment #15 posted by FoM on April 21, 2007 at 21:17:05 PT

For Those Interested: John Prine 
He is on the Austin City Limits right now. We have the album he is singing and it's good.http://www.johnprine.net/
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Comment #14 posted by FoM on April 21, 2007 at 20:55:42 PT

Just a Comment
I don't have enough energy to hate anything or anyone or maybe I just made a conscious descision that was how I wanted to live. Things are bad in our world but hate only is a consumer of the person who hates. Try to have a good Sunday everyone.
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Comment #13 posted by Richard Zuckerman on April 21, 2007 at 20:52:55 PT:

I DO NOT DOUBT IT WAS BAD JUDGMENT.
WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS THAT FoM AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS PERSECUTING ME FOR IT, JUST LIKE THE GOVERNMENT. You people brought up the subject here. I'm merely trying to explain myself. I've done my time in jail for it. Wasn't it FoM who brought up the subject? I'm merely responding. Frankly, I do not believe you people should be berating me over it. It was so long ago. Was FoM ever in the Black Liberation Army? Does she have any skeletons in her closet? You people would not have known about it if it wasn't for my honesty! You who vote for the corporatist Democrats and Republicans are ruining this nation much much more than us Libertarian "criminals"!! Didn't "Reverend" Al Sharpton commit an illegal act by creating the police "rape" of Towana Brawley? He wasn't convicted, but does it make him any less guilty? And what he did was a crimens falsi. What I did was an act of honesty. I'd like you are one of your messengers to visit a law library, go to the Federal Reporter, Second Series, pull the particular volume with the "In Memoriam of Harold Medina", and read the two or three verse essay from his "Anatomy of Freedom" in same In Memoriam of Harold Medina, at the very beginning of the book? Ask a reference librarian to help you find it? You really should read the essay, which is about how frustrating it is for a person to be wronged by the very system designed to protect same person. And the short phrase in the case of U.S. v. Schneider, F.2d (7th Cir.   )("...the rhetoric of hyperbole that comes so easily to the lips of angry Americans". A friend has shown me Faces of Death, Parts I, II, and III for my birthday, a few weeks before I wrote and mailed the "threat". I'm saying I was denied a fair trial which would determine whether it was a "true threat"! Until I get a fair trial on the issue, I assume I was exercising protected speech for purposes of my legal guilt of having violated 18 U.S.C. Section 876, the statute of which I was convicted!! I acknowledge it was inappropriate! I have apologized to the judge! I do regret it. You were only assuming I do not regret it. You were only assuming. IT IS YOU PEOPLE WHO CONTINUE TO BERATE ME OVER IT, PROBABLY BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH THE SUBSTANCE OF MY SPEECH IN OTHER MATTERS, SUCH AS MY POSITION ON RACE.
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Comment #12 posted by BGreen on April 21, 2007 at 20:09:43 PT

Stop it.
Violence brings more violence. There's nothing of a threat in that. We don't tolerate hate nor violence.You could have said it was a stupid thing to threaten a Judge, IN WRITING no less, but you chose to give the excuse that the federal whatever expired in 1995. SO WHAT?It was a STUPID thing to do, Richard, and you show no remorse. NONE. You just write your hateful words and disparage anybody that doesn't want to join you in your hatred.You can go anywhere and spew your hatred. It just isn't welcome by most of us here.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #11 posted by Richard Zuckerman on April 21, 2007 at 19:56:38 PT:

I'M JUST STATING MY POSITION, REV.!
Every one of you readers have done something illegal in your life! There are convicted felons and unconvicted felons!Your "violence begets violence" sounds like a threat to me, Rev.! And what makes you believe I'm angry? You call yourself a "Reverend"? Which religion?
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Comment #10 posted by BGreen on April 21, 2007 at 19:42:01 PT

This is uncalled for, Richard
Most of us have NEVER threatened to kill anyone.Your anger doesn't seem to represent someone who has changed or is sorry for such an outrageous death threat.Violence begets violence, and no matter how much you try to put us down, we just aren't going to play that game.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #9 posted by Richard Zuckerman on April 21, 2007 at 19:26:36 PT:

CORRECTION: THE FEDERAL SENTENCE EXPIRED IN 1995
Not 2005. My typo there. 
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Comment #8 posted by Richard Zuckerman on April 21, 2007 at 19:25:17 PT:

IS THAT ALL? 
The federal sentence expired in October of 2005. It has been over 10 years. I guess you don't believe in rehabilitation of offenders. Besides, [1] they took me thru trial in the same federal courthouse where the mail "threat" was received and the prosecution witness testified they had to be escorted to their car at the end of that business day; Back around 1995, the 10th Circuit rendered a published decision which changes the venue of the Oklahoma City bombing prosecution because one of the law clerks was slightly injured in the blast, entitled either In re Wayne Alley or In re Nichols or U.S. v. Nichols; [2] the trial judge refused to instruct the jury that "exaggeration" is a defense to a mail threat prosecution [the standard 5th Circuit jury instruction for a mail threat prosecution]. Instead, the trial judge instructed the jury as per the prosecutor's request, that it must be more than "rhetoric or idle talk"; [3] there was an abuse of Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 48(a); (4) the trial judge denied my motion to dismiss based on bad faith prosecution, stating the individual citizen does not have a right to keep and bear arms under the U.S. Constitution; (5) I had a federal Speedy Trial Act claim; (6) 3rd Circuit Judge Sloviter cancelled the scheduled appellate oral argument and issued a "judgment order" in response to my respectful request to argue the appeal in pro se. If you consider these points to be frivolous and that an accused deserves to be convicted without regard to constitutional rights of the hated accused, then let it happen to all of you!!!! At least I learned from this act of bad judgment! At least I did not really hurt anybody! Nobody was physically attacked, nor was there any intention of it. Nobody was robbed. Nobody was stolen from. You ought to read the dissenting opinion by U.S. Supreme Court Associate Justice Douglas in Watts v. United States, that in his opinion the statute making it a serious crime to threaten the U.S. President is unconstitutional as a remnant of the Alien & Sedition Act!! You ought to read what U.S. Supreme Court Associate Justice Hugo L. Black said about his support for absolute freedom of speech, instead of you hissy fit overly sensitive folks who get physically confrontational about the "n*****" word while you call each other that word and often kill folks of your same skin color!!! As a matter of fact, I do not consider the Black Rutgers University basketball team as victims in any way, shape, or form, and I certainly do not believe Imus should have been fired for the one passing remark. I vehemently oppose forced integration of public schools as required by Brown v. Board of Education, FoM, too!!! All you people see is either a "rap sheet" with convictions or a brief comment from someone honest enough to mention it. You don't know how the conviction came about, what the government & judiciary had to do to keep that conviction intact. I have my freedom of speech just as much as you have freedom of speech to refer to me as "polluting" this web site with certain comments YOU deem untrue. You have one "threat", which I signed, dated, and return addressed, which was back in 1988, 19 years ago, and nobody was injured. The conviction was in 1991. Federal supervised release terminated in 1995. It has been not 10 years, but eleven and a half years since the expiration of the sentence, the only felony conviction on my record! And, yes, the conviction was from the "Marijuana" laws. And the right to keep and bear arms. If I had any money, I would have had the decency to retain an attorney to appeal the case, but I was indigent. I'd like you to visit the library, find the Federal Reporter, 2nd series, look on the side of books, look for the In Memmorium of At least I don't vote for your beloved Dennis Kucinich who so loves the United Nations and gun control I hope he NEVER wins another election!!! I called his Congressional office on Friday and told them that! Oh, yeah, as for that shooting on the Virginia Tech college campus: [1] The feds ordered the local cops to STAND DOWN during the shooting!!! [2] The perp had been on psychotropic meds known to cause homicidal behavior; [3] that college is largely ROTC; [4] NASA is involved with that college, more so than other colleges; [5] CIA recruits on that college campus; [6] Recently, prior to the shootings, the campus police had performed a drill for shooter-on-campus scenario; [7] Speakers were installed only recently before the shootings; [8] the perp had talked with staff on a number of occasions prior to the shootings; [9] one of this country's top mind-control underground laboratories is located in the same municipality as the college campus; [1] the perp had a "thousand yard stare"; [11] the perp had ties to the federal government; Stream the internet radio shows of www.INFOWARS.com, which repeats throughout the day so you can hear it any time, about the suspicion that this shooting was a Black Flag Operation by the U.S. Government!!!!!!! Instead of blaming guns, the government should blame the dopey cops who failed to include the information on their database about the court declared psychialtric dangerousness of the perp onto a database which would have prevented the firearms purchase. Instead, your beloved Dennis Kucinich and a group of other Congressmembers are calling for an outright ban on firearms possession, because THEY WANT THE NEW WORLD ORDER AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. And you people are bickering about my "threat"??? You'd better check out that www.INFOWARS.com for the people you REALLY ought to watch out for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I'll guess you people will continue to vote for the Democrats and Republicans! 
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Comment #7 posted by whig on April 21, 2007 at 18:23:30 PT

FoM and Zuckerman
http://cannabisnews.com/news/22/thread22044.shtml#9
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Comment #6 posted by Richard Zuckerman on April 21, 2007 at 18:14:02 PT:

WHAT THREATS? 
Where have I threatened anybody? Is this another one of your overly sensitive rants, Whig?
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Comment #5 posted by FoM on April 21, 2007 at 18:08:49 PT

whig
I don't pay attention because I don't understand what Richard means. It sounds legal to me. 
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Comment #4 posted by FoM on April 21, 2007 at 18:06:53 PT

whig
I don't know what to say. 
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Comment #3 posted by whig on April 21, 2007 at 17:46:37 PT

FoM
May I be permitted to reiterate my objections to people who threaten violence. Even if nobody will object to the presence of the man who pollutes this place from time to time, I would like to make it known to all who read that he is not someone that I would wish to associate with until he renounces his threats.
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Comment #2 posted by Richard Zuckerman on April 21, 2007 at 17:38:49 PT:

IMPORTANT PUBLISHED COURT DECISION TO KNOW!!!
A published trial court decision holds that police frame-ups constitute a due process violation. If you can't sue the liar pig for malicious prosectution, abuse of process, or retaliatory prosecution, you MIGHT be able to sue the cop [COP=crooks on patrol] for due process violation. Here is how it goes.In Chavez v. Martinez, 538 U.S. 760, 774 (2003), The Court wrote:"Convictions based on evidence obtained by methods that are 'so brutal and so offensive to human dignity' that they 'shock the consceince' violate the Due Process Clause. Rochin v. California, 342 U.S. 165, 172, 174 (1952)...Although Rochin did not establish a civil remedy for abusive police behavior, we recognized in County of Sacramento v. Lewis, 523 U.S. 833, 846 (1998), that deprivations of liberty caused by 'the most egregious official conduct," id., at 846, 847-848, may violate the Due Process Clause. While we rejected, in Lewis, a federal civil rights plaintiff's contention that a police officer's deliberate indifference during a high-speed chase that caused the death of a motorcyclist violated due process, id., at 854, we left open the possibility that unauthorized police behavior in other contexts might 'shock the conscience' and give rise to federal civil rights liability. Id., at 850."Quoting the above paragraph, the trial court, in Hirmuz v. City Of Madison Heights, 469 F.Supp.2d 466, 480-483 (E.D. Mich., Judge Lawson, January 3, 2007) held that "[d]eliberately fabricating evidence against an accused person falls into this category...A claim of fabrication of evidence does not require a conclusion that the state did not have probable cause to prosecute the claimant..."YOU PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE NOTE OF THIS AS YET ANOTHER FACET OF YOUR ARSENAL AGAINST LIAR POLICE OFFICERS!!!!!Now shyadddup and get back to work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Comment #1 posted by FoM on April 21, 2007 at 08:10:26 PT

Entertainment News: Neil and Pegi Young
Neil Young's Solo Sitar Music on Wife's Debut Album***From our ANI CorrespondentWashington, April 21: Rock star Neil Young's fans will get to listen to the magic of his enchanting music in his wife Pegi's debut album also. 
 
 
 
 He has given music to a host of songs in the album, and an electric sitar solo on 'Love Like Water'.Pegi revealed that at first the whole band avoided discussing whether her husband should play for the album or not, but later on the studio crew roped him in. "Leading up to it, I put the band together and we just sort of avoided discussing whether Neil was going to play on it or not," Contactmusic quoted her as telling Billboard.com. "He dropped by the first day and kind of listened, and the next day, the guys at the studio had wisely created a little space for him, should he want to participate at all. And then he just ended up playing on everything, all the way through," she added.Copyright Dailyindia.com/ANI http://www.dailyindia.com/show/135373.php/Neil-Youngs-solo-sitar-music-on-wifes-debut-album
Rust Radio
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