cannabisnews.com: Get The Pot To The Patients Get The Pot To The Patients Posted by CN Staff on July 25, 2006 at 19:53:06 PT Editorial Source: San Diego City Beat San Diego -- People who wish to make it safer and easier for sick folks to get their hands on the marijuana that ameliorates their symptoms are a passionate bunch, and, without a doubt, we stand with them. But if they advocate for a laissez-faire government attitude toward the recent explosion of pot dispensaries in San Diego, we cannot abide. Let there be no more confusion over whether or not medical-marijuana dispensaries are legal in California—they are not. Proposition 215, passed by voters in 1996, simply allowed people, armed with a doctor’s recommendation, to use marijuana for medicinal purposes. Senate Bill 420, passed in 2003, provided more specifics and established a voluntary ID-card program. San Diego passed an ordinance that set guidelines for how much pot patients and their caregivers can cultivate and possess. But none of these laws legalized large-scale storefront dispensaries. For better or worse, it is illegal to sell marijuana, medicinal or otherwise. Nevertheless, at least two-dozen for-profit operations sprung up citywide, with the tacit approval of the city of San Diego, attracting the attention of federal agents, who have, on several recent occasions, raided many of these dispensaries, confiscating property and records and handcuffing and detaining people inside. While we condemn any heavy-handed, thuggish behavior on the part of narcotics agents, medicinal-pot advocates and the operators of these dispensaries shouldn’t be surprised or outraged that these places are being shut down. Not only are they illegal, they’re also counterproductive. Widespread existence of unregulated dispensaries only invites trouble. Sure, some of them are run by genuine advocates motivated only by the spirit of Prop. 215 and the desire to help people in need. But, inevitably, there will be opportunists bent on exploiting the situation for their own financial gain. It is these people who will get in the way of a righteous cause by selling pot to people who can’t demonstrate a medicinal need for it, or preying upon the truly needy by selling it to them at exorbitant prices, and confirming the fears of those who oppose its legal use. But if patients can’t get the stuff at a corner store, what are they to do? State and local laws envision a system in which individuals (caregivers) cultivate marijuana and provide it, at no profit, to ill people with legitimate doctor’s notes. The idea is for these caregivers to provide for only a handful of patients apiece. But, given the high number of people with ailments that can be relieved with marijuana, that system is not realistic. There just aren’t enough people with the time and know-how to be caregivers. What’s needed is a carefully controlled, tightly regulated system that allows the few to provide for the many. Our recommendation is for San Diego to allow a nonprofit organization to distribute marijuana to legitimate patients from several locations—perhaps southern, central and northern outlets. The pot, which is inexpensive to grow, should be sold as cheaply as possible, covering only the costs of growing the plants, keeping the facilities up and running and conducting semi-regular audits to make sure everything’s on the up and up. We call on Mayor Jerry Sanders, who supports medicinal marijuana in concept, and the City Council to either reconvene the medical marijuana task force that designed the quantity guidelines or form a new one to come up with recommendations for such a system. The task force should review all existing systems elsewhere—six California counties and 24 cities currently regulate dispensaries or have recently passed regulations, according to Americans for Safe Access. The panel should include representatives from the police department and the city attorney’s office as members or as staff support. The City Council has been very, very quiet on the dispensary issue. Perhaps they think the work was done with the 2003 guidelines. If so, they were wrong. San Diego has become a battleground, and resolving battles requires leadership. On Tuesday, City Council President Scott Peters told a group of activists who asked for the dispensary issue to be docketed for discussion that the docket is full until after the City Council’s August recess. Fine—then let’s get that discussion docketed for a meeting of the Public Safety and Neighborhood Services Committee soon after the break. The San Diego County Board of Supervisors, leading the charge to overturn Prop. 215, has shown itself to be completely backward on medical marijuana and hostile to the people who find the herb helpful in dealing with pain and suffering. The City Council, on the other hand, has been just the opposite, and we commend them for it. Now let’s finish the job. Source: San Diego City Beat (CA)Published: July 26, 2006Copyright: 2006 Southland PublishingContact: editor sdcitybeat.comWebsite: http://www.sdcitybeat.com/Related Articles & Web Site: Americans For Safe Accesshttp://www.safeaccessnow.org/Medical Marijuana Is Here To Stayhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread22018.shtmlAn End To Pot Dispensaries?http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread22005.shtmlACLU & Others Step In To Defend CA MMJ Lawhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21976.shtml Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help Comment #44 posted by rchandar on August 05, 2006 at 15:57:56 PT: bgreen, whig yes, but you've got to wonder why the Netherlands policy has yet to be duplicated by any country in the world. Only the Dutch could make it stick; Canada and Britain have tried, but it always failed. I think the Dutch are super-enlightened myself, but then they're a country with a tradition of liberalism and education. Very little anti-intellectual stuff going on there, and a fourth of the people are atheists. whig, there is an anti-smoking law which forbids smoking in restaurants and bars. there's no law which specifically targets marijuana smoking in public or sets an additional penalty. the way the Dutch were able to do it was by making the law state, "the use of drugs is not an offence". Smoking itself is NOT a crime there. For such a thing to be legally justified in California, the state would require its own Constitutional definition of the legality of drugs in general, versus US Government policy where the use of drugs IS an offence.In practice, I don't know. It could be tried, and if enough people and stores encouraged it, the concept could become a ballot measure. It was conceived of that way by British and Canadian cannabists; they're still fighting.-rchandar [ Post Comment ] Comment #43 posted by museman on August 03, 2006 at 13:46:09 PT #1 - #42 Agreement. Yes. Ditto. Amen. I heartily endorse you all...no point in repeating what you all have said, even in my own way, because IT's ALL TRUE!thanks. [ Post Comment ] Comment #42 posted by FoM on August 03, 2006 at 12:47:09 PT rchandar That's ok man! LOL! [ Post Comment ] Comment #41 posted by rchandar on August 03, 2006 at 12:15:57 PT: whig, FoM FoM, sorry about that, I forgot! Whig, I believe you're right on the money about the history of Christianity. What I meant to say was that today's government, corporate, media society is roman: it is a culture of limitless corruption and minimal accountability.As for Hinduism, yes cannabis was and is the sacrament of the god Shiva, an elixir given by Shiva for pleasure and meditation. BUT: For the most part, to find Hindus of this sort you would have to go to India. Certainly not the middle-class Hindus who are the vast majority of Indians in the United States: they abominate all drugs and most of them are card-carrying Republicans. (They're rich, I'm not).If you want, read the Indian Government's 1951 document about drugs and their eradication. It insists that cannabis arrived in India around 800 BCE; thorough and honest archeological research done for decades placed the arrival of cannabis in India around 2500 BC. In other words, the Indian Government insists that cannabis was not indigenous to the growth and influence of Hinduism, whereas credible research maintains that it was.In this sense, cannabis faces a very different problem in the Third World. In these "poor" countries, cannabis often was a sacrament instrumental in religious philosophy and ritual performance. The governments and middle-class citizens of these countries are ashamed of their pasts, and want to become as modern and Westernized as possible as fast as they can. It isn't to say that cannabis isn't demonized in the US, but I believe that laws here, if not the police, are mild compared with the very draconian ones operating in Asia and Africa. In some countries like Malaysia and the Phillippines, they've instituted the death penalty for possession of more than 2 kg. Human beings are much more disposable when you're country is poor. But the governments are ashamed of their past, their traditions, and prefer to wipe out as many remnants of those times as they can.FoM, again sorry! And I admit it probably isn't the greatest thing in the world to be male; perspective suffers sometimes.--rchandar [ Post Comment ] Comment #40 posted by Hope on August 03, 2006 at 11:32:38 PT Whig I know things are rough when you can't get what helps the most. It's wrong...but I'm glad you're in a safer place and have hope of being "legal" soon. There are so many suffering needlessly. The fact that their suffering is unneccessary and caused by a bunch of egostistical, ignorant lunatics doesn't help. I'd love to see America become the land of the "Free" and "Liberty" again some day. What a rejoicing that would be. Let it be! Let it be!Looking for, working for, waiting for, hoping for something wonderful. Something really wonderful. [ Post Comment ] Comment #39 posted by whig on August 03, 2006 at 00:47:34 PT Hope Thanks. I'll be here all week. Try the veal.But seriously, I'm hoping I'll actually be able to have cannabis legally soon, so why rock the boat or take unnecessary risks right now. It's good to be in a safe place, and fortunately I can take a few weeks away from the herb without any permanent harm being done. It's less pleasant, and my bones are occasionally uncomfortable, but I just respect my limits and don't push too hard. [ Post Comment ] Comment #38 posted by Hope on August 03, 2006 at 00:11:35 PT Decannabinated? That's a good one, Whig.Thanks for the smile. [ Post Comment ] Comment #37 posted by whig on August 02, 2006 at 23:01:19 PT rchandar I'm going to offend someone probably if I talk about this but I want to say it anyhow so please take my words as just my own thoughts. I am for one thing very decannabinated for the moment and have been for awhile so I am at a remove from the more introspective point of view that gives me a certain authoritative voice which I lack at the moment -- but I believe very deeply that the sacrament of Christ was always cannabis, has always been cannabis and will always be cannabis, that Y'shua was a cannabist and that he was condemned for it by the Pharisees and killed by the Romans.I repeat: Killed by the Romans.I attended a Catholic wedding a few months back, and it was shocking to me; sincerely shocking to see the scenes of death, the so-called "stations of the cross" presented throughout the sanctuary, the murder of Y'shua the cannabist -- killed by the Romans.The Roman Catholic Church is, first and foremost, Roman. It always was. It is a church that is full of guilt, and self-abasement, and shame. It is self-loathing.But then, the Romans decided to stop taking the blame for what they did. They blamed the Jews. Not just the Pharisees, the high priests who condemned Y'shua, but all the Jews -- the very Jews who were, many of them friends and followers and brothers and sisters and cousins of Y'shua. His own family.I could talk about the Protestants who make up the vast majority of the American population, and particularly the Pharisees of their number. The Jerry Falwells and the Pat Robertsons. The Karl Roves and the George W. Bushes. They are Romans too, they are just the Reformed Romans.Not a one of them is true to the spirit of Christ. None of them even know what it means. None of them. They are completely abased, lost, self-denialists. They serve Rome, and a man (or woman) cannot have two masters.If Rome commands that Christ be killed, they will kill Christ again. They are killing Christ. They are crucifying us. History repeats itself.You can call yourself a Hindu. You can be a Buddhist or a Rastafari. The labels do not matter. The metaphors are different but the underlying truth is the same regardless of the names we give it. Cannabis is the sacrament of all of these. It has always been. It will always be.So that's what I think. [ Post Comment ] Comment #36 posted by FoM on August 02, 2006 at 20:53:26 PT rchandar There are really good people who go to Church and do good things for others and there are those who just give lip service. It isn't hard to tell the difference I believe.PS: I thought you knew I wasn't a man. [ Post Comment ] Comment #35 posted by rchandar on August 02, 2006 at 19:43:19 PT: FoM "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."I think it's apropos to say the least--America is extremely far from any Christian kind of thinking. It is Roman, Roman, Roman. A society where most people are not free, but enslaved--by money, status, earthly pleasures, image, power. Christ isn't going to come because he abominates all these things, fought against them, died in battle against them. There is a big difference between organizing a society to guarantee that people "can believe" and actually following, in deed and spirit, the teachings.NONE of these people actually get it. Somehow, not being a Christian, I DO get it.But yeah, I agree with you. Listen to them talk, it's just so fruitless.--rchandar [ Post Comment ] Comment #34 posted by rchandar on August 02, 2006 at 19:22:22 PT: FoM come on man--they aren't real christians. Christ has nothing, nothing to do with this idea they have that some are better than others, that material wealth is the mark of one's character, that red meat and football are the cherished goals of children. There's always been a huge, HUGE difference between what Christ taught and espoused and what Christianity--the pagan religion of medieval Europeans--professed. Christ said nothing about going to Hell for not worshipping him. Nor did he advocate holy war against the unbelievers--his missionaries, he taught, were to be peaceful and "spread the word of the Gospel." These motherf#%kers have nothing to do with Christ--it's a lie, a humongous lie, and anyone seriously interested in Christ should abominate these people.Christ wasn't in favor of boot camps or private prisons for minor marijuana offenders. He didn't support the police and their scare, arm and spy tactics. You can't say in good conscience that he did! It's so fargone, that's all--anyone who wants to worship Christ inevitably should own up to the fact that Christianity has tampered with and screwed up Christ's ministry so badly that it's a wonder that people come to church anymore.Myself, I'll stay a Hindu--though it's been tampered with a lot, too. Year after year, I have to tell myself about those fundamentalists and the Religious Right--they DON'T represent Christ in ANY way or form.I could remember my attorney, who talked about how the prosecutor and he went to church together. Real devout Christians, they were. Didn't keep them from swearing or shouting obscenities to make me feel bad about what I'd done. Don't ever look to the Religious Right for Christ; it's just false, that's all.--rchandar [ Post Comment ] Comment #33 posted by FoM on July 27, 2006 at 16:00:02 PT Whig Oh the joy of a sofa. That's great to read. I know how much I appreciate our new sofa. [ Post Comment ] Comment #32 posted by whig on July 27, 2006 at 15:43:02 PT Also nice Our sofas arrived today. We picked them out in a nice shade called Herb Green. [ Post Comment ] Comment #31 posted by whig on July 27, 2006 at 15:40:33 PT O-A-KST-ERD-AM Nice expedition today, Oaksterdam is alive and well.If you're ever in the area, the Bulldog Coffeeshop is a nice place to visit and have a cup. [ Post Comment ] Comment #30 posted by FoM on July 27, 2006 at 13:30:08 PT Go Jose! Keep up the good work. It's good to see you. I hope you are having a nice summer. [ Post Comment ] Comment #29 posted by jose melendez on July 27, 2006 at 13:21:09 PT papers, please . . . published today!from: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v06/n973/a03.htmlQUESTION: WHICH SHOULD BE GIVEN MORE WEIGHT IN FEDERAL FUNDING FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT -- DRUGS OR TERRORISM?With respect to your editorial, "Feds Should Keep Spending Money To Fight Drug Problem," what should be done if anti-drug programs actually increase the abuse of stronger, easier-to-conceal contraband by ever-younger users?No one reasonably suggests incarceration, asset forfeiture or armed home invasions would protect or deter cigarette smokers, so why should Americans stand for a war waged against us?Face it, drug war is crime.Jose MelendezCommunications Director, Concerned Citizens Coalition to Criminalize Prohibition - - - Re: FEDS SHOULD KEEP SPENDING MONEY TO FIGHT DRUG PROBLEMPubdate: Wed, 19 Jul 2006Source: Times, The (Munster IN)Copyright: 2006 The Munster TimesThe issue: Drug abuseOur opinion: It is essential that U.S. Department of Homeland Security money cover drugs as well as other anti-terrorism measures. The drug problem is real and harming livesTen years ago, Lake County was identified as a high-intensity drug trafficking area. The federal government has poured money into the county since then to try to fight the spread of drug crimes in the county.But now that money is at risk as the federal government shifts its priorities from domestic social issues to fighting terrorism. Make no mistake, however. Drugs are terrorizing the populace and causing a tremendous drain on personal and public resources. Continued federal funding of anti-drug programs -- prevention, enforcement and treatment -- is essential.(snipped)(above from: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v06/n948/a05.html )see also: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v06/n973/a04.html [ Post Comment ] Comment #28 posted by afterburner on July 27, 2006 at 11:39:14 PT #24-#27 Timothy Leary said that the lowest level of consciousness is "death cults," based on his study of Hinduism, Tibetan Buddhism and psychedelics. That description certainly fits the Muslim extremists, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Bush warmongers, the Israeli warmongers, and the Religious Right. The WoD has played a big part in all this by demonizing the "higher" plants and the "higher" levels of consciousness that they reveal to us. We are being sedated to the level of blind vengeance, murder, and "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" mentality. These wars cause destruction and chaos in the name of peace, law and order. They are an evil sham on the citizens of the world. We deserve better. Thank God and free will that some are willing to opt out of this global insanity and to promote a better future in their thoughts, words, and deeds! [ Post Comment ] Comment #27 posted by FoM on July 27, 2006 at 11:26:23 PT What The Right Wing Wants They hate living in this vile world. They think Jesus will come back and will take them out of here (rapture) but before that would happen all hell must break loose in Jerusalem. People are so happy that finally this world and the druggies and all those they hate will be left here to suffer and they will be in heaven.How do we stop this? I knew when it started it can't be stopped. Ask a church christian if they are happy now. I bet they say yes. They have so much hate they can't stand living here. [ Post Comment ] Comment #26 posted by whig on July 27, 2006 at 11:07:26 PT Max It's not just Jewish people who support the State of Israel no matter what it does and how violent its methods. The mainstay of support in the United States at least is the right wing Christian evangelicals who believe that we are living in Apocalyptic times and that Jesus wants them to kill in his name. Well, they might be right about the first part but nowhere did Jesus (Y'shua) ever condone murder in his name or for Israel or in any case. They (the Pharisees of the right) might want to reconsider which side they are on -- the SAME side as the violent extremists of the Muslim world -- both worship Ba'al, Satan, Death in the name of God, and they think they are on opposite sides from one another, when it is really them both together bringing about Hell on Earth.There are two sides: War and Peace. I don't care what you call God, I care how you treat other people. Because other people are God, and how you treat the least of them is how you treat Me. [ Post Comment ] Comment #25 posted by Max Flowers on July 27, 2006 at 10:33:27 PT whig I commend you for your stance of not supporting Israel in its barbaric actions. I am disgusted by any and all Jews who maintain an automatic attitude of "any violence that Israel does is justified." They in large part are the ones perpetuating the violence. Israel, or at least its government, army, and a huge chunk of its population, has at this point just about become what they had feared and hated for so long. That's right---racist, murderous, bloodthirsty barbarians. "We must defend Israel" "Ve must defend Der Fatherland" It's the same s# t. They refuse to see the simple truth that their "homeland" was obtained at the expense of other people, and at gunpoint (British guns in 1947). OF COURSE that is going to create a seething, endless hatred in the people whose land was stolen. I see the Israeli-Arab problem in pretty simple terms: they just plain chose the wrong (worst possible!?) place to create Israel. They should have picked somewhere else. [ Post Comment ] Comment #24 posted by whig on July 26, 2006 at 22:46:35 PT BGreen I'm keeping up with news on the net, but at least I can choose how much attention to pay to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. I am upset about it on a number of levels, it is really horrible what is happening of course and I've seen pictures of children and people that have been horribly killed and were not terrorists or anything but in the wrong place at the wrong time and it's just not right. Also, even though I consider myself more Christian than anything I am also Jewish because that is what I was born and I will always be ethnically and to a large cultural degree. I don't approve of what Israel is doing and I think the Bush administration is backing them because they want World War III. [ Post Comment ] Comment #23 posted by BGreen on July 26, 2006 at 21:40:49 PT whig I hear that TV this week is going to be just as exciting. LOLSeriously, the whole Israeli invasion of Lebanon has diverted attention away from the fact the Iraq war is getting bloodier and Iraq is most likely in a civil war.We just don't hear much about Iraq these days.The two Israeli soldiers that were captured by Hezbollah and precipitated Israel's attack were actually captured inside Lebanon where they had no right to be. The US wants Lebanon destroyed as well as Iran and Syria, so we're shipping massive armaments to Israel while protesting any form of cease fire. That way we can destroy as much as we can by proxy through Israel and weaken these countries for our own benefit.It's really a brilliant strategy for bush and co. Things have never been worse in Iraq and it isn't even in the news.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #22 posted by BGreen on July 26, 2006 at 21:26:40 PT whig Since you don't have a TV, I thought I'd summarize the highlights from the past week. The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #21 posted by FoM on July 26, 2006 at 21:15:19 PT whig You sound like you have good control of the situation. You might be shy and I know I'm shy but we sure didn't have any problem talking when we met. The news has been really terrible. I don't know why they are keeping the news so much on what is happening between Israel and Lebanon. If it isn't our war why do they keep showing us what is happening? Iraq doesn't seem to be news worthy these days. Now they are trying to make us like Israel and not like Lebanon. I have been listening to music almost from the beginning of the day these days. Are they trying to scare us so everyone votes for republicans? I don't know. [ Post Comment ] Comment #20 posted by whig on July 26, 2006 at 20:48:43 PT FoM Our furniture is supposed to arrive on Saturday but we tried to confirm today and their computer system wasn't showing our truck's location and the driver didn't call us back by end of day, so we'll check again tomorrow. Our car was supposed to arrive yesterday but is somewhere in Texas, and not expected until maybe Monday or Tuesday now (if we're lucky). Which is kind of annoying but we don't have much recourse about it. I got a bus pass for the next 31 days so I can get around the East Bay (Oakland, Berkeley, & environs).At least we are getting our sofa tomorrow and we have a kitchen table and chairs and I have a small desk for my computer. No television though. Maybe that's a good thing.I haven't really met people yet but I hope to start doing that and I need to find something to do all day once my wife's classes start. I'm really a very shy person until I get to know people so it takes me awhile.San Francisco is kind of far out of our way because even though it's close in miles it's on the other side of the bay so you have to take a train and it costs about $10 for the round trip, and that's just to get to the city. Then I'd need to figure out the bus or subway or cable car to get where I'd want to go and pay the fare both ways on that, so when all is said and done figure it's probably $20 per person just for transportation for the day. I'll go exploring SF eventually but so far we just went in once to the Embarcadero Center and then came home. [ Post Comment ] Comment #19 posted by FoM on July 26, 2006 at 19:38:08 PT The GCW Do take care of yourself and thank you for your dedication. [ Post Comment ] Comment #18 posted by The GCW on July 26, 2006 at 18:36:45 PT HOLY WAR IS SICK (My throat is fine for the moment but ...)(FoM, You're welcome. Thank You. Thank You all.) US TX: LTE: HOLY WAR IS SICK Newshawk: The GCW Pubdate: 24 Jul 2006 Source: Austin Chronicle (TX) Copyright: 2006 Austin Chronicle Corp. Contact: http://www.austinchronicle.com/info/email_directory.php?mailto=mail&name=General_Email Website: http://www.auschron.com/ Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/33 Viewed at: http://www.austinchronicle.com/gbase/Community/Postmarks Author: Stan White Referred: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v06/n965/a04.html?238019 Date Received: Mon., Jul. 24, HOLY WAR IS SICK Dear Editor of The Austin Chronicle, I'm pleased to read Jim Hightower's vent (“The Government's Sick War on Marijuana”) [“The Hightower Report,” July 21] but can't believe it still needs to be written. “Holy war against marijuana” and “holy warriors”? As Christ God Our Father indicated, He created all the seed-bearing plants, saying they are all good on literally the very first page of the Bible (see Genesis 1:11-12 and 29-30); people who would stick a knife in the side of the Christ should be confronted. Ironically, while many people know of cannabis (marijuana) as the tree of life, the very last page of the Bible (Revelation 22) indicates the leaves of the tree of life are for the healing of the nations; thus cannabis was and is created to end war. All war. Prohibitionists (“holy warriors”) don't want cannabis/the tree of life free because it exposes them, and their holy war for what it is, which is sick. Truthfully, Stan White Dillon, Colo. [ Post Comment ] Comment #17 posted by FoM on July 26, 2006 at 17:39:50 PT whig I looked on a map and saw San Franscico isn't right next to Berkeley. About 13 miles the map said. Have you met any people yet? Are you both getting out and about? Has you furniture arrived? Basically are you starting to settle in. [ Post Comment ] Comment #16 posted by afterburner on July 26, 2006 at 10:21:40 PT whig #4: Non-Profit Dispensaries & Coffee Shops On Canadian dispensaries:Guidelines for the Community-Based Distribution of Medical Cannabis in Canada, May 2006 by Rielle Capler, British Columbia Compassion Club Society, and Philippe Lucas, Vancouver Island Compassion Society http://www.thevics.com/PDF/medcan_guidelines.pdfToronto Compassion Centre http://torontocompassioncentre.org/ Treating Yourself - Home http://www.treatingyourself.com/html/home.shtmlOn Canadian coffeeshops:Kindred Cafe http://www.kindredcafe.com/ Up In Smoke Cafe - Home http://upinsmokecafe.ca/home.htmlThere are strong ties by Internet and by personal/professional contact between California cannabis activists and their Canadian counterparts. [ Post Comment ] Comment #15 posted by FoM on July 26, 2006 at 07:06:25 PT The GCW Thank you for all you do for our cause. I really appreciate it. I hope your throat is feeling better. [ Post Comment ] Comment #14 posted by The GCW on July 26, 2006 at 05:45:30 PT LTE US CO: PUB LTE: You're justifying sins with God's word Pubdate: July 26, 2006 Source: Summit Daily News (CO)Author: Greg Francisco Viewed at: http://www.summitdaily.com/article/20060725/LETTER/60726011 Refferenced: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v06/n920/a08.html?237204 Refferenced: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v06/n961/a04.html?237521 You're justifying sins with God's wordGreg Francisco, Paw Paw, Mich. July 25, 2006You’re justifying sins with God’s wordRE: Tit for tat on drugs (Daily Mail, July 13)Perhaps it is Steve Buckley who needs to go back and re-read his Bible. While the Bible is quite clear that alcohol is dangerous and intoxication is not pleasing to God, nowhere does it say that God's holy creation is evil. In fact, Jesus Himself told his disciples that it is not what goes into a man's mouth that defiles him, but what comes out. When it comes to cannabis, commonly known as marijuana, we don't have to ask, What Would Jesus Do? Cannabis was well known in the Biblical era. Among many other uses, it was given to women to ease the pains of childbirth. Yet Jesus never spoke against it. Alcohol yes, but not cannabis. Yes, drug abuse is bad. Using the Holy Word of God to condemn the works of God is worse. Note: Greg Francisco is a frequent visitor to Summit County, and an online reader of www.summitdaily.com. [ Post Comment ] Comment #13 posted by whig on July 25, 2006 at 23:38:56 PT BGreen Of course I'm maybe not thinking through this properly because of my cannabinoid-deficiency for the past few weeks. It really does change perspective and while it makes a certain kind of logical argument seem like it makes sense, it also deprives me of the more comprehensive view.I guess it's just my desire that we shouldn't have to hide forever and we should just be able to be open and public about what we do and not be afraid, and we need ways to be able to do that safely. I'm new to California and perhaps don't appreciate the risks as well as I should here, but things that are ridiculous even to consider in Pennsylvania seem like possibilities here.But logistically I can see problems with what I'm thinking about, like the need for security to keep non-patients out and making and enforcing rules of conduct inside, the politics of how our neighbors will perceive us and the effect on their neighborhood, etc. And drama always happens, doesn't it? Maybe it's just inevitable.But if someone thinks this can work or is making it work I still hope to find out and if nothing else I'd like to be able to visit a place where we can be safe and share fellowship and not be afraid. [ Post Comment ] Comment #12 posted by BGreen on July 25, 2006 at 23:20:24 PT whig I know this isn't the Netherlands. I have two expensive plane tickets to prove it. LOLYou're not the first person to try bending over backwards to please the powers that be. I've watched our side bend over backwards so far in the past 10 years that our heads are touching the backs of our feet and they're STILL making it harder and harder on us every day.The rest of the world has used the US as a model for many things because you look at something successful and emulate it. That's why we have to insist that our government examines and initiates a similar working model to the only working system in the entire world.What is now occurring is EXACTLY like the Marijuana Stamp Tax of 1937. They tell you that you can have it, but at the very same time they've set it up so you CAN'T have it.I'm just not willing to play that losing game.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #11 posted by FoM on July 25, 2006 at 22:18:29 PT whig I understand where you are coming from. I look at the issue of supply. I don't know how much the dispensaries turn in a day but with about 40 clubs in San Franscico it would amount to a lot. That is where it gets dangerous. The wrong kind of people would be attracted to make money and the Feds don't take to it at all. Cannabis needs to be grown without fear. If that end of MMJ could be fixed then what you are talking about could probably work out fine. As long as the supply end is not acceptable change will be extra hard. [ Post Comment ] Comment #10 posted by whig on July 25, 2006 at 22:15:23 PT BGreen You're right we shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel but this isn't the Netherlands and if we tried to just do what they do and stick our finger in the state's eye we wouldn't be allowed. It's just that simple. I know it should be that way. Maybe it will be someday soon, but if we're going to have any kind of a public place it has to be something that is done carefully for now. [ Post Comment ] Comment #9 posted by whig on July 25, 2006 at 22:12:55 PT FoM Btw, I'm not in San Francisco, I'm closer to Berkeley on the East Bay. I don't know how much you know about the geography out here. But if something like this could be done in or around Berkeley it would be most convenient for me and I'm sure a lot of people, and others could do similar things on the SF side if they aren't already.Like I said I'm really ignorant of the situation, haven't even been to a dispensary, to which I'm not allowed to enter until I have a medical recommendation and I can't get that until I have a state ID which will be at least a couple weeks so I'm in a sort of limbo state for awhile yet. So I may be just completely misunderstanding how things are done or maybe it's something that hasn't been done here yet. Either way I want to be part of it if I can. [ Post Comment ] Comment #8 posted by BGreen on July 25, 2006 at 22:09:32 PT We don't need to reinvent the wheel There is a working model available to study and implement, and it exists right now in the Netherlands.We're trying too hard to discard what has been proven effective in an attempt to pacify an unruly government here at home. The problem as I see it is that anything this hostile government is willing to accept will then, by it's very nature, be destined to fail.There is nothing more that this government loves than financial profits so that just isn't the problem. The problem is 100% of this government's making.The Dutch are allowed to grow up to 5 plants per person (sick or not,) but most people don't even bother because it's so much easier to pop into the local coffeshop and score a gram or two.It's such a non-issue in the Netherlands, not because the cannabis culture appeased the government, but because the cannabis culture educated and shaped the government's position.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #7 posted by whig on July 25, 2006 at 22:08:24 PT FoM I'm not going to get personally involved in the politics of growing or distributing. Too much of a third-rail. I don't live in a place where I can grow for myself much less for anyone else so the dispensaries could be very helpful to someone like me if I don't have a caregiver, but all of that is a political fight that carries a great deal of risk for everyone involved and what I'm wanting is a safe ground -- a place people can just come and chill and be comfortable.I'm not at all saying that I'm not interested in the issues about growing and getting medicine to patients. I think it's absolutely essential. It's just something that other people are doing and I'm willing to support them if I can do so, but I think this kind of a safe place is important and I don't know of one existing, and there cannot be growing or distribution in the safe place itself or it ceases to be safe.I hope that makes sense. [ Post Comment ] Comment #6 posted by FoM on July 25, 2006 at 21:55:41 PT Whig You have a really good idea. The growing of a large volume of Cannabis must be made legitimate. I don't know if they allow smoking anywhere in San Francisco though. [ Post Comment ] Comment #5 posted by whig on July 25, 2006 at 21:52:42 PT BGreen I'd like to say that my idea doesn't require people to acquire pot from public dispensaries. Qualified patients can still grow their own or have it provided by private caregivers. The point I'm making is that if you want to avoid a confrontation with the government you don't put public sale for-profit in their face if you can possibly avoid doing so -- you don't need to moon the beast. We have enough trouble, as it is. I understand that the for-profit designation at present is largely because the state won't issue non-profit certification for cannabis dispensaries. Anyhow as far as the coffee shop idea goes, I wouldn't care where people got their cannabis it just wouldn't be at our premises -- but they should be able to bring it with them. [ Post Comment ] Comment #4 posted by whig on July 25, 2006 at 21:46:42 PT Non-Profit Dispensaries & Coffee Shops So I'm thinking (dangerous, yeah) but I have no problem at all with the municipal and county governments shouldering the legal risk to provide cannabis to medical patients without profit and making private dispensaries unnecessary, but the fact is that people need some kind of support system beyond just their doctor, who may have no direct experience of precisely how cannabis can be best used to help people, and furthermore medical patients have no way of really getting to know others who share their circumstances and can help them understand what strains to use, how to prepare them for consumption, and provide fellowship and care for one another. This is something that needs a sort of home ground, a friendly gathering spot.Is there anything in California law which prohibits a coffee shop or similar establishment from providing a private space for medical marijuana patients -- where cannabis will not be sold by the establishment and private sale between patients will also be prohibited -- but where qualified patients may smoke or vaporize or eat or otherwise consume cannabis on the premises?I'd love to be involved with something like that. As soon as conceivably possible, in fact. But it has to be something that is really going to pass legal muster in California and which does not make for an obvious Federal prosecution target. I'm not looking to create any kind of test case or have anyone martyred. This is something that should be good, comfortable and safe, we would be helping sick people and paranoia is not part of their therapeutic indication.Can anyone give me some advice on this or is this something that is already here and I just need to find the right place? Because I do know there are dispensaries around but I don't know where there are such places that are not also dispensaries, and we can clearly see that dispensaries are and will continue to be targeted for Federal raids for the foreseeable future. Is there anything that would prohibit such places from being present in any particular county? Should I just start talking to coffee shops around here or in Berkeley?I'm not sure where to start, I don't even have my own medical qualifications yet so it's probably premature but I think I should be qualified as soon as I can get my state ID and see a doctor because I certainly do have chronic pain that is helped by cannabis and it isn't really questionable whether I should be given a recommendation -- but I do have to wait until the process is completed.This could really be a mission I'd commit my full effort to, if it seems possible and practical. I'm going to need help though. [ Post Comment ] Comment #3 posted by BGreen on July 25, 2006 at 21:33:58 PT Non-profit doesn't mean cheaper or affordable There are two major non-profit hospitals in Springfield, MO that charge far too much for everything.If you get your prescription filled in the hospital pharmacy you will pay at least twice as much as you would from an independent for-profit pharmacy.They have one desire and that is to prevent people from using medical cannabis. All of the arguing about zoning and profits are just a smoke screen. The opponents are using every conceivable excuse to stop medical cannabis while appearing to be supportive.Just butt out of our business. We knew how to handle ourselves with this plant before the government and police got involved, and we still know a crap load more than you cold-hearted goons.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #2 posted by FoM on July 25, 2006 at 21:31:10 PT Wayne I like your idea. The plant itself is a gift and it shouldn't cost a lot of money. I thought by now that the price would have dropped. If they had a controlled growing facility that would solve a big part of the problem. What do they do on Alcatraz? If it is just used as a tourist attraction grow the cannabis there. You can't get much more secure then that place. [ Post Comment ] Comment #1 posted by Wayne on July 25, 2006 at 21:13:08 PT non-profit dispensaries They are the only way to go. Non-profit facilities, regulated by city and county governments. It's not an ideal scenario, but until the glorious day when bud is finally legalized, it will have to do. I don't like seeing state and local governments taking backward steps, but there really are some shifty business owners out there that are exacerbating this situation.Money is the root of all evil. I'm convinced that whenever you remove money from the equation, any problems usually disappear. This would be no different. Let a well-regulated system grow it and supply evenly-dispersed dispensaries, charge the patients only enough to cover the costs, and leave them be. The only people that gain from it are the people that need it. And if no one is making money off of it, in theory the Feds should leave them alone. [ Post Comment ] Post Comment