cannabisnews.com: Agents Make 'Visits' To Medical Pot Shops

Agents Make 'Visits' To Medical Pot Shops

Posted by CN Staff on July 22, 2006 at 07:20:13 PT
By Jeff McDonald, Union-Tribune Staff Writer
Source: San Diego Union Tribune

San Diego, CA -- Federal agents paid “courtesy visits” to nine or 10 San Diego medical marijuana dispensaries yesterday, warning operators that they consider the shops illegal. No arrests were made, although agents seized an undetermined amount of marijuana. Agents made it clear that the government will no longer tolerate retail storefronts selling pot.
“Those dispensaries are operating in violation of state and federal law,” said Dan Simmons, a U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration special agent. “These were courtesy visits to remind the dispensaries that are still open that they're operating illegally.” Medical marijuana activists painted a different picture of what happened. According to Steph Sherer, executive director of the advocacy group Americans for Safe Access, drug agents barged into the dispensaries and threatened to arrest employees and patients before seizing whatever marijuana they could find. “They're basically going in and taking everything,” Sherer said. “They said, 'Shut down or we're going to come back and arrest you.' ” State law permits medical marijuana dispensaries but leaves it up to local municipalities to determine where they are allowed. Sherer's organization has repeatedly called on elected officials to regulate dispensaries rather than raid them. Snipped: Complete Article: http://tinyurl.com/p4gzmNewshawk: MayanSource: San Diego Union Tribune (CA)Author: Jeff McDonald, Union-Tribune Staff WriterPublished: July 22, 2006 Copyright: 2006 Union-Tribune Publishing Co.Contact: letters uniontrib.comWebsite: http://www.uniontrib.com/Related Articles: Medical Marijuana Profiteers Targetedhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21973.shtml Five Arrested, Marijuana Dispensaries Raided http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21971.shtml

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Comment #96 posted by afterburner on July 27, 2006 at 21:03:43 PT
RE Steve Buckley #44
US OK: Killing The Dragon
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v06/n974/a05.html [Click here for the complete article]
(Tue, 25 Jul 2006)
Native American Times (US)
Author: Dan Cross, M.Div., L.A.D.C., is a Licensed
Alcohol & Drug Counselor and Associate Pastor of Father's House
Church, www.fhtulsa.org, where he runs the Addiction Recovery
Ministry (ARMy) which is free to the public on Tuesday evenings at
7:00 PM, 7727 E 41st Street, Tulsa, 1 block west of Memorial on 41st Street.
Excerpts:{"Jerred" ( not his real name ) had always been a violent person. ... Power was essential, and that was the draw of methamphetamine, otherwise known as "speed", "crystal", "zoom", "ice". When he was on it, he felt powerful. ...That powerful rage often caused pain. His need to control frequently controlled him. He hurt the ones he loved, and could not stop it regardless of the consequences. He lost his wife and children, and his pain only became worse. No longer could he hide it under the guise of power as it came throbbing to the surface, leaking out in his shame. His pride often triggered his rage, yet his life seemed to be cloaked with a shame he could not shed. Jerred was from the Yaki ( a.k.a., Yaqui ) tribe who inhabited Arizona to Northern California, a fierce people who caused even the famed Apaches to tremble. The Yakis were also known for their religious rituals using mind-altering substances. This practice was brought to public attention in the 1960's drug culture when Carlos Castaneda's wrote of his association with the Yaki Indian sorcerer don Juan Matus in "The Teachings of Don Juan." The entry into "Mescalito" was through eating the hallucinogenic peyote buttons. This sorcery was the source of the great Yaki's power. Jerred's story is an illustration of the many facets and layers contributing to addiction and compulsive behavior. There are a variety of addictions that have nothing to do with alcohol or drugs. Sometimes we participate in several addictions, or leave one and find another addiction that substitutes for the old one. Simply stopping the compulsive behavior doesn't stop the problem. Someone once said that addiction is like a four-headed dragon. Cutting off one head doesn't kill the dragon. At the Addiction Recovery Ministry ( ARMy ), at Father's House Church, 7727 E 41st St, Tulsa, OK, a Spirit-Bio-Psycho-Social approach is taken, addressing each head of the dragon. In Jerred's case, a heritage of sorcery-empowered violence had passed generation to generation. Jerred had experienced abuse as a child. As studies have shown, alcohol and drugs are most frequently associated with domestic violence. Such trauma alone is often insufficient to provoke violence toward the next generation. Most often alcohol or drugs are necessary to lower natural inhibition and empower violence, just as the Yakis experienced centuries ago. In Gal 5:19-21 we see a whole list of behaviors identified as "works of the flesh": "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." In a clinical or ministerial setting one often sees many of these behaviors clustered together in one's clients. Jerred exhibited many of them, as well, but we want to focus now upon "sorcery". Looking at Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, the original Greek word translated in English as "sorcery" here is pharmakia, from which we get the English word "pharmacy", and which Vine's says means, "the use of medicine, drugs, spells"; then, "poisoning"; then, "sorcery," Throughout ancient times witchcraft and sorcery have been associated with the use of drugs and alcohol, mind and mood altering substances. Through the manipulation of the soul, i.e., the mind, will, and emotions, a spiritual portal is opened allowing spiritual presence to empower. Yet this power is short-lived. This presence takes a high price for power, as it extracts all personal power commanding subjection, thus the addiction or compulsion. It is this spiritual component that empowers or commands the other "works of the flesh".}No mention of dying during worship for being intoxicated, but the intoxicated part is pretty clearly spelled out *if you interpret all magical plants as addictive*. Obviously, this counselor has not read much of Carlos Castaneda's actual words and experiences. His training is coloring his interpretation and he is demonizing Carlos Castaneda and Yaqui tradition as being "addictive" and promoting violence. Medicine is sorcery, what a stretch. No wonder the Bush administration refuses to acknowledge "medical" cannabis. According to the Religious Right orthodoxy: all medicine must be suppressed; all doctors must be caged. The new witch hunt. It follows so logically from false premises. Another Spanish Inquisition, anyone? Dark ages? Crusades? Witch burnings?
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Comment #95 posted by FoM on July 25, 2006 at 20:42:15 PT
museman
That's a good song to send. Do you have an anti-war song? I know that inspiration is a driving force with a musician and that you can't make it happen but it must happen almost on it's own. Maybe a direct link would be helpful.
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Comment #94 posted by museman on July 25, 2006 at 20:25:05 PT
FoM #74
I actually did submit a link about 3 weeks ago -before I went to the Gathering. Heard nothing back. The song was "Freedom". I thought it fairly appropriate.Perhaps they wanted a 'direct' link, I don't know but they didn't reply to the email.
Freedom
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Comment #93 posted by museman on July 25, 2006 at 20:12:38 PT
Hope #76
I've met some very good people in my walk, who were actually 'practicing christians', whose charity and goodness exemplified Y'shuas Way. These are the ones whose strength I admire. If it were not for these, the 'church' would truly be empty. There are honest people everywhere. I often have to elaborate that I don't associate the 'church' or 'religion' to persons, or even 'people' unless there is a specific event or experience which must include the reference. There are also folks not even close to referring to 'christianity' whose actual life and practices get close to the mark.I looked for a congregation for many years. I looked for community as well, with pretty much the same negative results. Eventually I found that both are real and valid, though they only exist in very limited and rare quantity.Rounding it all down, I found both my congregation and community with -family. I also know that 'family' is a greater thing than immediate genetic relation. A brother is a brother, a sister is a sister, by no other qualification other than that they are there, amd that they can love and be loved.The preachers were undone by Y'shua 'Himself'. The whole point is the FREEDOM and LIBERTY to LOVE. You cannot 'contain' or 'restrain' that! You can't delegate 'official' 'divine' representatives to take care of your business, you got to learn to do it yourself.If you cannot RULE yourself, there are many who would gladly do it for you, and extort all manner of ransom for the 'services.'
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Comment #92 posted by FoM on July 25, 2006 at 19:08:55 PT
John Tyler
That Scripture says a lot. I went ahead and removed the extra post.
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Comment #90 posted by John Tyler on July 25, 2006 at 18:31:20 PT

another Bible quote
My final Bible quote. In Matthew, Jesus says that it didn’t matter what somebody put into their mouth, only what came out of their mouth.
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Comment #89 posted by FoM on July 25, 2006 at 13:59:13 PT

afterburner
I don't know if you can get this or not but someone put together a video to Shock and Awe. I think they did a good job.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJmKZxNG0S8&NR
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Comment #88 posted by Hope on July 25, 2006 at 07:48:40 PT

C-Newsers are. Would that all could be.
"This should move us to be charitable toward one another's lunacies."
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Comment #87 posted by afterburner on July 25, 2006 at 07:39:03 PT

OT: but Interesting & Important
I sometimes read books written for children in order to find the core meanings in a new topic or to rediscover those core meanings when lost in a barrage of bafflegab. The DEA and ONDCP are frequently blathering on about the so-called "permanent" changes to the brain caused by "drug" use. In their incessant attempts to demonize the God-given plants, especially cannabis, they are missing an important point:{How the Brain WorksThe human brain has close to 100 billion nerve cells, called neurons. Each neuron is connected to thousands of others, creating a neural network that shuttles information in the form of stimuli, in and out of the brain constantly.Each neuron is made up of four main parts: the synapses, soma, axon, and dendrites. The soma is the body of the cell where information is processed. Each neuron has long, thin nerve fibers called dendrites that bring information in and even longer fibers called axons that send information away. The neuron receives information in the form of electrical signals from neighboring neurons across one of thousands of synapses, small gaps that separate two neurons and act as input channels.Once a neuron has received this charges it triggers either a "go" signal that allows the message to be passed to the next neuron or a "stop" signal that prevents the message from being forwarded. When a person thinks of something, sees an image, or smells a scent, that mental process or sensory stimulus excites a neuron, which fires an electrical pulse that shoots out through the axons and fires across the synapse. If enough input is received at the same time, the neuron is activated to send out a signal to be picked up by the next neuron's dendrites. Most of the brain consists of the "wiring" between the neurons, which makes up to one thousand trillion connections. If these fibers were real wire, they would measure out an estimated 63,140 miles inside the average skull.Each stimulus leads to a chain reaction of electrical impulses, and the brain is constantly firing and rewiring itself. When neurons repeatedly fire in a particular pattern, that pattern becomes a semipermanent feature of the brain. Learning comes when patterns are strengthened, but if connections are not stimulated, they are weakened. For example, the more a student repeats the number to open a combination lock, the more the connections that take in that information are bolstered to create a stronger memory that will be easily retrieved the next time. At the end of the school year, when a student puts the lock away, that number will not be used for a couple of months. Those three numbers will be much harder to recall when fall comes and that student needs to open the lock again.}
--Artificial Intelligence, Thomas, Peggy Thomas, Hardcover, Book, ISBN: 1590184378, Children - Science & Technology, Barnes & Noble.com
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&isbn=1590184378&itm=10Simplicity. Elegance. It is the hand of God. Occam's razor: "Occam's razor states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory. The principle is often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae (law of succinctness):"entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem,
which translates to:"entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity.
"Furthermore, when multiple competing theories have equal predictive powers, the principle recommends selecting those that introduce the fewest assumptions and postulate the fewest hypothetical entities. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood." --Occam's razor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occum's_razorIn simple words, the simplest explanation is probably the best.Of course, the brain creates semipermanent patterns (that is, changes) when a person experiences an altered state of mind as with cannabis. In other words, we learn things when we are in an altered state, just as we learn things when we are in a "normal" state (that is, consensus reality, which, by the way, is culturally determined and *not* universal among the earth's many cultures). Learning forms habits that we can rely on for future understanding and skill application.Why is the functioning of the brain discussed in a book about Artificial Intelligence? Unlike government agencies who have an unholy and vested interest in creating alarmist scare stories to control the populace and to maintain the profits of their sponsors (corporate donors), Information Technology people and in particular Artificial Intelligence people want to understand *how* the brain works so that they can simulate its functioning in intelligent machines to reduce the burdens of human slaves. That is, AI people want to increase the technological blessings for human society, not to control the masses with more governmental bureaucracy.
Artificial Intelligence by Peggy Thomas, cover image
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Comment #86 posted by FoM on July 25, 2006 at 06:46:50 PT

Whig and Hope
I was able to turn on the computer for about 5 minutes and wanted to explain something. I am very sick right now and my head is fuzzy. I love all of you and never would be critical of you. I look inside myself and myself only when I see something of interest. I am a bit of a lunatic and it actually made me smile when I read that quote. If I am a pacifist then why would I be judging others? Life is too short for me to waste my time on trying to change anyone if that makes sense. I only am working on myself. Now the computer is being turned off and hopefully I will be back sooner rather then later. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Until we meet again happy trails to you!
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Comment #85 posted by FoM on July 24, 2006 at 21:47:24 PT

Whig
I didn't put that much thought into it. I liked it because it helps me understand that we all have areas of lunacy in our beliefs and life. That doesn't mean anything really just interesting to read that quote from Mark Twain.
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Comment #84 posted by whig on July 24, 2006 at 21:32:56 PT

FoM
I agree with you that we should not be so quick to label people who think differently from ourselves as mentally ill, and it is a peculiar consequence of our limited human minds when we try to comprehend that which is beyond our comprehension we all must be, by constructing imperfect and different models, simulaneously quite wrong and unable to understand one another. Some models may be better than others, to be sure, but there is little to prove it if only that we cannot even describe them accurately.Even so, there are consequences that we can perceive, that we can taste and smell and feel and show one another and agree that they are good or bad. This is what I think is meant by judging the tree by its fruit. We cannot perhaps understand how the fruit comes to be sweet, or know when we plant the seed, but we can certainly know it when we harvest.As we sow, we reap, and so it is important to know that when we are reaping a bitter harvest not to sow the same seed again, and again. I see the seeds of destruction being continuously replanted, and it is this which I call out to and say stop. But they do not stop, they honor the spirit of death and call it honor and duty and courage. And they condemn our way, as well, but where I would only speak my truth they will speak knowing falsehoods, where I would be peaceful, they will bring force and put us in cages to be tormented. So if you say I should hold my tongue and not speak against them, I cannot agree from this perspective, because my words are the only defense I can offer, the moral clarity which I hope to make plain cannot be made if I express a moral equivalence between these.That's just how I see it from where I sit.
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Comment #83 posted by FoM on July 24, 2006 at 21:06:19 PT

I Thought This Was Interesting
A quote from Mark Twain illustrates the need for civility and charity between those who differ in their religious and political perspectives:***"Let us consider that we are all partially insane. It will explain us to each other, it will unriddle many riddles, it will make clear and simple many things which are involved in haunting and harassing difficulties and obscurities now. That is a simple rule, and easy to remember. When I, a thoughtful and unbiased Presbyterian, examine the Koran, I know that beyond any question every Mohammedan is insane; not in all things, but in religious matters. When a thoughtful and unbiased Mohammedan examines the Westminster Catechism, he knows that beyond any question I am spiritually insane. I cannot prove to him that he is insane, because you never can prove anything to a lunatic--for that is a part of his insanity and the evidence of it. He cannot prove to me that I am insane, for my mind has the same defect that afflicts his. All democrats are insane, but not one of them knows it; none but the republicans and mugwumps know it. All the republicans are insane, but only the democrats and mugwumps can perceive it. The rule is perfect; in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane. When I look around me I am often troubled to see how many people are mad.This should move us to be charitable toward one another's lunacies." http://home.att.net/~coachthee/Archives/reciprocity.html
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Comment #82 posted by FoM on July 24, 2006 at 20:25:55 PT

Hope
I sure wasn't talking about you. I meant that people who don't understand us need to stop pointing fingers at us like we are the devil or something. I won't make them feel like they are the devil or something. Those that do point fingers at us will have an eye opening experience that will hit them where they live. What a person gives they receive I believe. That is just the law of reciprocity to me.
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Comment #81 posted by Hope on July 24, 2006 at 20:18:17 PT

Finger pointing
"Never say never and never point a finger because as soon as we do the finger turns right around and points at us."Well...interesting. I know that as soon as I think I "could NEVER do that!"...the next thing I know, I've done that...or something similar.After my diatribe about the failings of those people that I was so angry at...the "finger" didn't exactly turn around and point at me. But...I was trying to push a Cutter mosquito wipe towel back through that little thing that holds them up in the dispenser so you can pull them out one at a time and my finger slid through it and I thought I was going to lose the end of it! It hurt so bad and I was panicing. I grabbed a steak knife and tried to pry it open without cutting my finger. The end of my finger was passing purple and heading to black! The teeth were dug in like a bear trap. That was hard plastic in that opening. The damage was relatively mild, considering what it looked like it was going to be...but it hurt terribly and still hurts! Funny that you guys should be talking about fingers. I just now read it. Today I bought a Monster energy drink and cut my finger opening the pop tab. Dang! Lol!If that's chastisement...it's really better than actually mistreating someone, like those that I was angry at did...but I do realize...we all mess up. That really did hurt me though to read about how they treated Museman. Perhaps the finger stuff is a mild chastisement though...warning me to not be so wicked hard on others that don't get it right sometimes. It wasn't so mild that it didn't draw blood and hurt like you know what. Maybe those guys are better men, now. I hope. I'll try to be
kinder in my ascertainment of the sins of others.I do believe that it's important to God that I'm kind and understanding and don't get all uppity and proud...or self-righteous, about what I would or wouldn't do.Finger pointing. I think I'll keep my fingers "quieter" and not be so harsh on the failings of others. Instead I should say to Museman, that our brothers failed him terribly, and I'm sorry, but they misjudged him terribly. There but for the Grace of God go I. Maybe I'm learning something. We never get to stop doing that. That's for sure.My sword of truth is pretty sharp and I need to be more careful with it.Ouch.
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Comment #80 posted by FoM on July 24, 2006 at 14:11:31 PT

Press Release from The Drug Policy Alliance
San Diego Patients Fight for Access to Medical Marijuana After Dispensaries Shut Down***Monday, July 24, 2006Medical marijuana patients in San Diego lost access to their medicine on Friday when the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) shut down all the city's remaining dispensaries.Steph Sherer, executive director of patient advocate group Americans for Safe Access, reported that DEA agents seized medicine and threatened to arrest dispensary employees and patients. A DEA spokesperson, on the other hand, said agents went to the dispensaries to pay "courtesy visits."Margaret Dooley, San Diego coordinator for the Drug Policy Alliance, said, "Rather than focusing on violent or organized crime, the DEA has decided to terrorize San Diego’s patients. One terrible result of the closures will be to force sick and dying patients to buy their medicine on the black market, which can be a dangerous and unreliable alternative."Patients will gather at a City Council meeting Tuesday morning to seek support from the city. They are going to ask the council to instruct police to enforce state and local laws, which allow the medicinal use of marijuana. They will also ask the city to return to the table to develop regulations for dispensaries within city limits."We need to stop raiding and start regulating," said Wendy Christakes, a medical marijuana patient and San Diego co-coordinator of Americans for Safe Access. "Local officials are under both moral and legal obligations to develop a safe and secure system for the distribution of medical marijuana to eligible patients. Failing to do so has put us all at risk of DEA harassment and worse."Last week's "visits" by the DEA continued a series of raids that began in December of last year, almost immediately after the San Diego County Board of Supervisors voted to sue the state to strike down California's medical marijuana law.In early July, the Drug Policy Alliance, Americans for Safe Access and the American Civil Liberties Union filed to intervene in the lawsuit on behalf of medical marijuana patients and their caregivers. http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/072406sd.cfm

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Comment #79 posted by FoM on July 24, 2006 at 07:55:10 PT

Had Enough
That's true. I really believe we need to work hard to be tolerant. A tolerant country will be a peaceful country.
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Comment #78 posted by Had Enough on July 24, 2006 at 07:49:30 PT

The Finger...
#77When you point a finger, are there not three pointing right back at you?
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Comment #77 posted by FoM on July 23, 2006 at 20:22:48 PT

Hope
If I was a preacher I would welcome everyone. No exceptions. Who is anyone to ever snub another person? Church people often act like they are superior to others. I call that pride. What comes after a person becomes full of themselves? They fall. Never say never and never point a finger because as soon as we do the finger turns right around and points at us. If we act in love then only love will come back to us. What we sow we really do reap.I will not take abuse from another person but I still will love the abusing person and pray for them.
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Comment #76 posted by Hope on July 23, 2006 at 20:10:44 PT

I know one thing...If I was a preacher...
I'd be preparing some sermons about the wicked ways of the people that claimed to be Christians and treated Museman the oh so ungodly ways that he described. How dare they? How could they be that stupid? They have to have been charlatons masquerading as teachers and they were a hideous disgrace to the name of Christianity and must have made our Lord so ashamed of them. It's hard to imagine that they could be so evil. I'm appalled and deeply ashamed of their behavior towards you, Museman. I'm so sorry. You are so strong to have overcome that. Their iniquity has a stench to it of their having no knowledge of Christ whatsoever. I'm so sorry that you and your friends were treated that way. May God bless you and them mightily and abundantly.Those who treated you that way were truly nothing more than white washed sephulcres. It's so sickening. Again...I'm so deeply embarrassed at them and the way they treated you and if anyone ever is told by the Lord, "Away from me! I never knew you!"...It will be those sort of people. I'm so grieved that anyone calling himself a Christian could treat anyone like that. Indeed they would have crucified Jesus again if he had appeared to them. Really, I'm unable to express my grief, anger, and sorrow over what happened to you. I can understand why he would spew such as they out of his mouth. What a bitter taste they must be to him. I love you, Brother...and I'm sorry that you have been treated the way they treated you...they did it to Christ, indeed. I'm sure you know, that they would have treated Christ himself the exact way they treated you...and indeed, they did.I can almost hearing them saying someday, "When Lord did we ever call you Satan? When Lord did we ever mock you?"Oh man. What grief.
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Comment #75 posted by The GCW on July 23, 2006 at 19:55:41 PT

Gotta love the very last page.
People who would cage a sick citizen for using a plant are the same people who would stick a knife in the side of The Christ and should be confronted. Ironically, while many people know of cannabis (marijuana) as the tree of life, the very last page of the Bible (Revelation 22) indicates the leaves of the tree of life are for the healing of the nations; thus cannabis was and is created to end war and ease pain. Prohibitionists don’t want cannabis / the tree of life, free because it exposes them, and their holy war for what it is; which is sick.
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Comment #74 posted by FoM on July 23, 2006 at 19:46:31 PT

museman
Will you submit one of your protest songs to Neil Young? I would love to see one of your songs on his web site. I don't mean to pressure you but it would be nice.Do you have a protest or topical song available on the web? Send us a link for possible listing here.Send your song link to: songs lwwtoday.com
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Comment #73 posted by whig on July 23, 2006 at 15:14:16 PT

museman
I've admittedly eaten from both trees, and have knowledge of good and evil and I agree it is a deception for the most part but one I cannot yet entirely purge myself of. That is to say, I cannot help but condemn what I see as wrong, and praise that which I see as right, as I perceive it. But I do not take my labels of these as something given to me, but as observations that I make myself in my own capacity. I judge the tree by the fruit thereof.The fruit of the tree of life (cannabis) is ascertainable by the ethical behavior of those who partake for the most part. While there are exceptions and everyone retains free will at all times, places where it is more common and even prevalent are the same as places where people live in peace with one another and seek justice. It is good in all its ways and we can say what we see, and I do not think that in doing so I am leading myself or anyone in a wrong way. But if I am ever wrong it is not willful, but honest error.
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Comment #72 posted by museman on July 23, 2006 at 14:51:46 PT

whig
"When God the deceiver aspect speaks, he says he is God and he says what is Good and what is Evil and he says to obey and to do these things in the name of Good, but they are evil things. The only thing that can prevail against this is to refuse, to take up your own conscience and be willing to accept upon yourself the mantle of choosing the good."Which is why I have delved into the proverbial concept of 'The Knowledge of Good and Evil' from the original biblical 'genesis -garden-of-Eden' concept through the historical struggle of many to work thtough it to some kind of spiritual, or humanistic solution. Through it all I have discovered the trick that has been played on us, how our natural tendancies have been used -in ancient insidious transgression of our natural inheritance- against us.This trick, this tool of subjugation has it's roots in the concept of 'sin and guilt.' Fear of oblivion, of the unknown, has been perpetuated from generation to generation. That fear is the key to the hearts and minds of nations and peoples - manifested in fortresses of solitude for the select and apportioned few, and slavery for the rest.Right and wrong. Good and evil. Just boxes. Named things. And yet the actions of demented and corrupt people tend to make one want to put them in that box of 'evil' or 'bad.'My current reference to these things is this;"There is no such thing as 'good' or 'evil,' only that which is, and that which has been corrupted." No packaging.I have met the 'deciever', on spiritual, and emotional grounds, and standing across the street from it. I understand your reference to 'an aspect' because at least in origin everything is part of the universe. It is a matter of perspective, in time, age, cultural reference, and many other factors. We are speaking of mystery here, some of which is understood by many people in as many different ways."For every eye that beholds God, there is another way to see Him."
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Comment #71 posted by whig on July 23, 2006 at 14:40:26 PT

Hope
Actually, I think Leviticus was prohibiting the use of cannabis except by the authorized priestly class. I think cannabis was illegal according to the high priests of Judaism when Jesus was here, and he violated their laws and that is why he was crucified. I think it is terribly ironic that the modern day Phariseeical (false) Christians quote Leviticus as if those weren't the very laws that Jesus overturned.
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Comment #70 posted by FoM on July 23, 2006 at 14:39:55 PT

museman
One time I was teaching teens in a mid week service in a Pentecostal church we attended (Ashcroft's denomination) and I had the kids rearrange the chairs into a circle instead of me addressing them straight on. I left one chair empty in the circle. I said to them that when two or more are gathered and they understood. We had a great talk that evening.
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Comment #69 posted by Hope on July 23, 2006 at 14:31:23 PT

Whig...About Jesus...Jeshua...The Word...
The Way, The Truth, The Light, The Great Counselor, The Son of God, The Great Phycisian...The Prince of Peace...Lion of Judah...etc.. I do know that he was accused of profaning the Sabbath by healing on the Sabbath and that he was accused of performing his many great miracles through the Evil One. I was referring to many of the titles conferred on him by believersAfterburner, I think you must be right about what he was referring to...although I think "Putting "unauthorized fire" into a censor is a very twisted and convoluted leap to being intoxicated. I think it was really fire and real censors that the priests were authorized to use. And if I remember correctly, the Leviticus priesthood was suppose to abstain from wine...so if that was true they weren't authorized to use alcohol, that makes his understanding require even a greater leap of imagination. (I'm assuming Buckley thinks alcohol is the "fire" and the men were the "censors".) That's really reaching on out there in an effort to find something to accuse someone of. He couldn't take the simple statement as it was...he or whoever taught him had to find a special, special meaning for it. Guys like Buckley are just sure that God should have made at least four or five more commandments than ten...and arrogantly just decided to add some more themselves.There are many mysteries and there are many historical statements in the Bible. There are methaphors and analogies and parables. But apparently, he's taken an historical statement about something that may have happened and twisted into something else. It's probably something like the time my daughter came home from work and said a co-worker had told her that you should never pay money for a dog. She said her grandmother said it was in the Bible. It's not. But there is a statement in the Old Testament that says something to the effect that a man should take neither the money he plans to spend to buy a dog or the services of a prostitute with him when he goes into the temple grounds. Somehow...that must have got twisted into "Don't spend money for a dog." for some people...and they taught it to others and they just took it as fact without ever researching it themselves.So...I think you must be right. To Buckley, the story of "unauthorized fire in an incense burner is "really" about "firewater" in a man. He could have done better and just said the guy was smoking....like he was a swinging censor of incense or something.Aaargh.
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Comment #68 posted by whig on July 23, 2006 at 14:30:22 PT

museman
I know some 'strange' (by normal standards) folk who call their sharing of herb - particularly good herb -"church."Y'shua said "When 2 or more gather because of me (in my name) I will be with them."I not only don't think that it is a strange thing, I think it is literally true. Cannabis is the eucharist, to me. It is the sharing of the body of Christ, the partaking of the communion.
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Comment #67 posted by museman on July 23, 2006 at 14:26:39 PT

bush
is decieved at the very least. Obviously the man has got some humanity buried under the fool somewhere, and in almost all people I try to see and accept the 'child within' even if that child needs a good whoopin'.He made his choices however and literally on his head is the blood of thousands, maybe ultimately millions. True, behind the door is the real terror, and we only (thankfully) get mere glimpses of that countenance reflected here and there in an accidentally revealing photo or something. But if I can invoke meaningful humor, and maybe through that, one or two people might go beyond the joke to look at the seriousness of the situation, then I am just going to have to be forgiven, 'cause I still say George Bush Jr., not only looks like a monkey, but he acts like one too! I am not alone in that observation. I have a nice little book my mom gave me for xmas called "Clueless George Goes To War." He's a monkey in that too.
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Comment #66 posted by museman on July 23, 2006 at 14:15:34 PT

FoM
I know some 'strange' (by normal standards) folk who call their sharing of herb - particularly good herb -"church."Y'shua said "When 2 or more gather because of me (in my name) I will be with them."My wife was raised Catholic as well.The only church I've never 'attended' or gone to services - is the Catholic church - though I went inside a cathedral in Italy while on leave once.It's easy to pretend to spiritual things when you isolate yourselves from reality, like in a closed box - disconnecting you from all things natural, but if the spirit is not reflected in the earth, sky, water, and fire that is the ACTUAL REALITY THAT WE LIVE IN, then I submit it is not the Spirit at all, but just a psychological construct made valid only in the close confines of 'physical sanctuary'- where nothing REAL is going to challenge it! Charisma is a sought after trait in the churches of jesus and money. And man can they throw a bible!
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Comment #65 posted by whig on July 23, 2006 at 14:10:21 PT

museman
In regards to Bush -- I believe he is simply deceived. I have heard the voice of God in the deceiver aspect, and he does not come as the Devil or as Satan, he is God and he is God, but he is Satan all the same. I hope that makes sense to you, because words fail to express it well.When God the deceiver aspect speaks, he says he is God and he says what is Good and what is Evil and he says to obey and to do these things in the name of Good, but they are evil things. The only thing that can prevail against this is to refuse, to take up your own conscience and be willing to accept upon yourself the mantle of choosing the good.In order to be truly Christian we must be, in the manner of Christ, knowing within ourselves and acting with the spirit of our own divine nature, as God ourselves. This is a thing that to the mainstream (i.e. false) Christians is the definition of Satanic. In other words, we are Satan to them, as they are Satan to us.But among our number there are those even who are in fact choosing the evil, for their own glory and wealth and power, and they are the true evil. Those who knowingly choose this path, I have little to say about but that we struggle with them through the deceptions they perpetrate. They will never say, as I will, that they are God. They will never claim the mantle of Christ immanent and inherent within us all. Even in their denial they are deceiving. They are the true devils.
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Comment #64 posted by FoM on July 23, 2006 at 14:00:11 PT

museman
That is really interesting to read. I was a very rebellious Catholic. I would ask why is it a mystery and they never answered me. I learned a lot about church and religion because I went to Catholic school. We had a class that we talked about right and wrong and why something was right or wrong. I knew that God was out there somewhere and when I saw a group of people singing cool spiritual songs out in the country I thought that's it. Everyone looked sincere and kind.
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Comment #63 posted by museman on July 23, 2006 at 13:57:08 PT

except
for Bush, he can take it personally. He's a monkey after all.
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Comment #62 posted by museman on July 23, 2006 at 13:51:10 PT

whig
You are right, I mispelled it. And I used the 'common definition.'Yes we are brothers. In the matter of 'offense' it is a matter of 'taking' it or not. I find difference, but not conflict. Your conviction -your firmly established beliefs, are refreshing and as illuminating to me as anyone here. When I find disagreement, I tend to respond. I also tend (or try to) to respond in a relativly 'harmless' manner. I can be offensive -the truth sometimes hurts-as you are well aware of - but none needs to take it personally, because I strive to not 'enter into accusation, or judgement' even as I strive to illuminate the truth.I find no real dispute, however, just differing semantical renderings of pretty much the same things. -as you said.
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Comment #61 posted by museman on July 23, 2006 at 13:38:22 PT

FoM
When I was eight years old I had my first vision. The short of it is that it was in a church, the vision was of 'Jesus'(didn't know about Y'shua yet), I was gifted with a rather large empathic ability, and 'Jesus' told me, "If you are looking for me, I am not in the church."I kept trying (church) over most of my life. Every protestant church (domination) has had at least one visit from me. I was babtized for the second time (the first being when I was about 4 days old) in 1981 by a group of seven ministers from seven churches.In the 80's I went with some rainbow brothers to discuss charity and scriptural interpretation with a minister, who took one look at us, said in disgust "Get a job!" and slammed the door of the church in our faces. Still I went back.I went to a church in the hippy town of Takilma, and was greeted by "Look, even Satan wants to come to our church."The final blow came in a church in Colorado, who had sponsored a concert in the park one summer (which was a really cool thing). When fall came however, and we set up the music inside the church, after a wonderful and inspiring concert which 2 young christian bikers will never forget, we were banned from the church. I went back that sunday and sang acousticly for the congregation my own songs. Then I went outside and took off my shoes, dusted them off, and never looked back.
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Comment #60 posted by whig on July 23, 2006 at 13:32:24 PT

museman
Your last two posts have been sheer brilliance, by the way. I want you to know that we are brothers and if we ever find ourselves in any disagreement it is only because we may lack the words to express our beliefs, which are the same.I hope you won't be offended if I correct one thing, the Latin word for "good faith" is bona fide, and though often pronounced "bonafied" that is not the right spelling. (The actual Latin pronunciation is "bonafeeday" but few people say it that way in English).
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Comment #59 posted by afterburner on July 23, 2006 at 13:30:39 PT

museman #58
Yes, in an earlier post (conversing with Hope I think) I challenged the 'divine appointment' or 'divine right of kings' since Yahweh did not want to give the Isrealites kings, but judges instead. Many fictions were created by the Holy Roman Catholic Church in the name of God, but with the goal of empire!
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Comment #58 posted by museman on July 23, 2006 at 13:14:33 PT

afterburner - history
The amazing thing about all of this, I think is even though 'history is written by the victors' and the compilation of history and human revelation that is contained within the bible was deliberately fragmented from it's original source, and selectively arranged to support the falsehood which became the Roman Catholic Church, the bonified information and truth managed to come down the centuries to our time, to actually be recieved, percieved, and understood in ways that the religion and church could never fathom or grasp.Before the Roman Catholic Church, was the Holy Roman Empire, which changed names one day from the Roman Empire, after pretty much wiping out the original followers of Y'shua- nobody could contest it. It's been the mother of catch-22's ever since. The power behind the thrones, and unassailable because of 'divine appointment' which was pretty much defined by the 'divine appointed.'I once asked a young man who was carrying this huge cross mounted on a skateboard -to roll it - (I had to stop on my way and speak to this person) whom he thought was 'qualified to lead the congregation.' He said, "Only those who are appointed by the church." I then asked if he believed it was possible that such 'ordination' could come as a direct empowerement from God to man, outside the physical church. The answer was negative, no matter what condition I put on it, even pointing out that somewhere along the line somebody had to have an original ordination from God himself, like Y'shua did.That's the catch-22. After 'Jesus' nobody can do anything outside of the body of the church. In one of the scriptures that was deliberately left out of the bible -called "The Dialogue of The Savior (Messiah)" Y'shua says; "Be as I am."According to doctrine; "You can't talk to God without Jesus." Before Martin Luther you couldn't talk to God without the Church talking to Jesus for you,- for a low price of whatever you got.What is occurring is nothing new, it's been a pot that's been boiling for at least 2,000 years, maybe even 10,000.
It is overflowing with the stench of the evil that's been cooking within, but out in the fresh air, the very same information that has been corrupted remains free, uncorrupted, and can be found, assimilated, and understood.
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Comment #57 posted by FoM on July 23, 2006 at 12:59:56 PT

Just a Comment
I gave up going to church when they formed the Christian Coalition. I was set back seriously by that move. Politics and religion are not to be together. That's why we have religious wars! Don't they get it? No they don't.
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Comment #56 posted by afterburner on July 23, 2006 at 12:42:41 PT

museman #53
Some years ago, an intermediate British-produced TV series, retelling the Robin Hood story, had the church infiltrated at the highest levels with Satanic puppets posing as holy men and women while they mislead the flock and perpetrated insidious evils on the community. At the time I sensed that it had an uncommon ring of truth. Since the Religious Right took over government, this view seems more and more appropriate.
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Comment #55 posted by whig on July 23, 2006 at 12:35:00 PT

Hope
To be honest, Jesus was called a witch and he was crucified for ministering to people without the permission and supervision of the Pharisees of his day.
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Comment #54 posted by afterburner on July 23, 2006 at 12:29:39 PT

FoM #48
You have mail.
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Comment #53 posted by museman on July 23, 2006 at 12:25:23 PT

Gestapo, Sunday School, and the Truth
Nazis have taken over. The entire schemata of the original nazi party, has been integrated into our intelligence network, our judicial system, and our law enforcement. The tactics of these government empowered criminals are so similar to the systematic dis-empowerment of Jews and other free peoples in the 30's, might just as well stop referring to them in any other way.The xtian church makes so many claims, yet do not follow the precepts of the one whom they claim as their 'savior.' They are the right hand of luciferian logic, the support group for bigots, and the justification of horrors that make Roman orgies of blood look like the basis of their understanding.Satan is the spirit of accusation. Lucifer sits in the seat of earthly judgement (personified in man). Even though Y'shua said quite clearly "Judge not lest ye be judged." or "Condemn not lest you be condemned." that seems to just go right by these upholders of false beleif and negative faith.People don't go to church to 'worship God' or 'jesus' or any spiritual aspect of creation, it's a social club for wolves and sheep. The wolves pretend to be shepherds, and the flock generally gets eaten one way or another.These 'spokespersons for God' like to take snippets out of the antiquated ambiguity of the Old Testament, and throw them in our faces as if they themselves were 'without sin' who were thus 'qualified' to 'cast the first stone.'The xtian church is rotten to it's core. It's core is built of falsehoods and deliberate lies. The temple that the builders made is of dust and ashes mixed with the blood of children. Propagated by war and destruction, proven by torture and perversion, but painted in lovely stained glass colors, this ANTI-CHRIST has achieved stature of biblical proportion. As in the revelations of John; "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?" And They certainly rejected the corner stone of Y'shua's life and ministry. "LOVE."This country has become not only an extension of the worst parts of the Roman Empire, but the resurrected heart of Babylon. America, in action, and prevailing spirit, has become the Harlot, drunk on the blood of goodness and decency.The truth is not hidden, albeit a bit obscured. Facts are able to be found out. To practice, or not to practice love falls as a decision and choice on each and every one of us, each and every day. "Religion" in it's oldest and basic definition means: "to constrain, or hold back."People seek religion out of fear. Faith and belief are words that they use to call the low level group psych-outs that they hyperventilate themselves into, when they babble and drool on themselves and call it "speaking in tongues" yah, the tongues of devils and demons.People seek the church as a sanctuary to hide from the truth, which they in their fear can only percieve as oblivion. Someone will say, surely not everyone in the church or religion falls into this generality.No. Like the salt of the earth good and righteous folk are scattered everywhere, even in the deep corruption which is specificly in xtianity, but the truth is that if they are there, they will not be 'preaching 'Jesus' they will be LIVING LOVE.In reference to these; I bow to such strength and tolerance, for I could not tolerate the lies and blasphemous arrogance of most xtians, particularly within the actual walls of their imprisoning churches."Open up the gates of the church and let me out of here!
Too many people have died in the name of christ for anyone to heed the call. Too many people have died in the name of christ that I can't believe it all." -Flying in Winchester Cathedral -CSNY
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Comment #52 posted by Wayne on July 23, 2006 at 12:10:29 PT

some ammo to use against Mr. Buckley
I love this site. This shows you, step by step, how to argue with people like Steve. And 9 times out of 10, you'll probably win too.
How to Fight the Religious Right
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Comment #51 posted by global_warming on July 23, 2006 at 12:06:41 PT

there is no lie
there is many fools.
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Comment #50 posted by Hope on July 23, 2006 at 11:58:00 PT

Steve Buckley is making stuff up or he's
passing along information that someone else made up and told him and he swallowed it. If he can't give me chapter and verse...as Stan always does...he doesn't know what he's talking about. If he's going to talk Bible, he needs to talk Bible and not stuff made up to control people to false beliefs. That Pentecostals belief that pharmacy is a word derived from a similar word that refers to spells and witchcraft. It's stunningly naive but swallowed, lock, stock, and barrel by many. If they want to derive meanings from words...let me give them a new one...... Pharmacosis, a mental aberration that makes one accuse others of witchcraft simply because they are free. Have pity on the deceived. Jesus was The Great Physician. Physicians formulated medicines and they were not despised and they weren't witches or Jesus would have been called The Great you know what. The Gospel is simple. There are, of course, and have always been, those who would pervert the simplicity of the word to their own twisted version, usually to try to limit the freedom of others. I pity them, but I don't pity them in that they teach lies. Their Father is the Father of Lies.

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Comment #49 posted by global_warming on July 23, 2006 at 11:23:11 PT

re I was just checking out airfare
How far are you from Cleveland? How far are you from the moon?
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Comment #48 posted by FoM on July 23, 2006 at 11:00:35 PT

afterburner
I was just checking out airfare. How far are you from Cleveland? I need to call our local bus station soon. It will all fall together in time. I got faith!
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Comment #47 posted by afterburner on July 23, 2006 at 10:53:23 PT

This Is my Church Today
I didn't get to go out to church today because I was watching the Final Stage of the Tour de France (and checking bus schedules, maps, and travel plans). American Floyd Landis won the 2006 Yellow Jersey in case you weren't following it.
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Comment #46 posted by global_warming on July 23, 2006 at 10:46:38 PT

re:comment 44
That is amazing ab, sure wish we could invite mr. buckley to this forum, i do not not know what he means or cites in the scriptures.
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Comment #45 posted by FoM on July 23, 2006 at 10:22:14 PT

afterburner
Thank you. That makes sense to me.
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Comment #44 posted by afterburner on July 23, 2006 at 10:14:03 PT

Steve Buckley
"read his Bible more closely. It makes it real clear that those who practice drug-use are no different than those who practice divination, and witchcraft." "Real clear"???, not that I've read! I don't know what version of the Bible you are reading, but the only reference I've found so far that even mentions drugs is the following: Matthew 27:34
"There they gave Jesus some wine mixed with a drug to ease the pain. But when Jesus tasted what it was, he refused to drink it." (Contemporary English Version) ["they gave him to drink vinegar mixed with gall, and having tasted, he would not drink." (Young's Literal Translation) / "There they mixed wine with bitter spices and gave it to Jesus to drink. After tasting it, he refused to drink it." (New International Reader's Version)] Spices are mentioned often as a useful food and funerary aid. Herbs are mentioned often as a useful article of commerce. Bitter herbs/spices or gall are symbols of slavery and used by contemporary Jews to remember the Exodus from Egypt and the Passover of the angel of death, sparing the Jewish first-born.
{"Pesach" is also the name of the sacrificial offering (a lamb) that was made in the Temple on this holiday.} Judaism 101: Pesach: Passover
http://www.jewfaq.org/holidaya.htmPerhaps, Jesus refused the vinegar with bitter herbs (used traditionally in the Passover meal) because He knew that if death passed-over Him, He could not fulfill His mission of resurrection and atonement.This "drug-use" that you speak of: does that include coffee, tea, chocolate? Where do you draw the line?"It also discusses the judgment of God on those who come to him intoxicated while attempting to worship. At least two different people in the bible died as a result of coming to God while in that state of mind."Maybe, you are referring to Leviticus 10:1-3
{The Death of Nadab and Abihu
1 Aaron's sons Nadab and Abihu took their censers, put fire in them and added incense; and they offered unauthorized fire before the LORD, contrary to his command. 2 So fire came out from the presence of the LORD and consumed them, and they died before the LORD. 3 Moses then said to Aaron, "This is what the LORD spoke of when he said:
" 'Among those who approach me
I will be proved holy;
in the sight of all the people
I will be honored.' "
Aaron remained silent.} They did not have permission to make an offering in the holy place, like Uzzah, who having put his hand on the Ark of the Covenant was struck down by the Lord. 1 Chronicles 13:10Intoxicated? Cannabis is not the same as wine or alcohol. Alcohol dulls the God-given senses and the rational judgement and promotes emotional reaction. Cannabis is mind-expanding, makes the senses sharper and maintains rational judgement and helps balance the emotions. Many religions use cannabis to get closer to God.Ephesians 5:19 says, "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit {of God}."There is a difference between a bit of wine as sacrament and worshipping drunk. The government, police and courts know the difference. So do most rational adults. Also cannabis is not wine!The argument of "God made it, so it's got to be OK to use it" could easily be applied to opium, mescal, peyote, pot, etc, in Mr. White's argument. Yes, God did make all the plants listed and all have been used for medicine, psychotherapy and/or religious practice. If by mescal you mean Mescal Bean (Sophora secundiflora), it is considered to be a poison and may have been used for divination. In medical practice even poisons are sometimes used in small physician-monitored and prescribed doses to accomplish difficult healing tasks. "One species, Sophora japonica, is medicinally important as a good source of rutin, used in modern medicine for treating capillary fragility." (Erowid Library: Golden Guide Hallucinogenic Plants, by Richard Evans Schultes http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/golden_guide/g91-100.shtml ) If you are referring to Mescal Buttons (Lopophora Lewinii Pellote or Anhalonium Lewinii), you are just using another name for peyote (Lophophora
Williamsii).
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Comment #43 posted by FoM on July 23, 2006 at 09:44:21 PT

Hope
I have been searching google to try to figure out who God killed for being high. I haven't found anything.
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Comment #42 posted by FoM on July 23, 2006 at 09:16:36 PT

John Tyler
I believe many diehard Christian folks are that way. I haven't ever met a truly happy one ever. Church going people I mean.
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Comment #41 posted by John Tyler on July 23, 2006 at 09:10:06 PT

Bible stuff
That’s the funny thing about the Bible, you can pick and choose anything you like about it, and disregard anything you don’t. Remember what they used to say, “Even the devil can quote scripture for his own purposes”.I used to work with a guy that was “religious”. He didn’t drink or do anything else. He played piano for his church. He didn’t have sex before he got married. That would be wrong. After he got married his wife didn’t have sex with him very often either. He didn’t get any spiritual rewards or anything for being so called “good”. He was raised in and continued this “religious” life style hoax. I guess this was supposed to be reward enough. He was miserable though and he knew it, but he didn’t know how to get out of it. Here is what he did do. He letched on the women at work, stole from his employer by heavily padding his overtime, and screwed people over in vicious office and church politics. He was a “good religious” person though.

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Comment #40 posted by FoM on July 23, 2006 at 09:07:54 PT

Ha! They Say They Care About Us
Testing for Mad Cow Disease to Be Cuthttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/20/AR2006072001709.html
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Comment #39 posted by observer on July 23, 2006 at 08:27:29 PT

Jail
Buckley writes, "However, it ignores that the Bible calls all who will follow Jesus to live holy, and perfect lives. We're to 'denyi our own desires, and live our lives unselfishly before our creator. Only by God's work in our lives is that possible."This is the reason why people are jailed for pot?
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Comment #38 posted by FoM on July 23, 2006 at 08:25:37 PT

Hope
No, I don't know who he was talking about. We are to worship God with Spirit and Truth. Incense was used to worship God and I won't debate what intoxicating herbs were used because I can't be sure what was used. The very first miracle Jesus performed was turning water into wine. For crying out loud Jesus wasn't like people are today. He probably smiled when people enjoyed heavenly wine. Mainstream Christians just don't smile much in our modern society if that makes sense. It's all judging others and condemning others instead of loving and helping others like HE told us to do.
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Comment #37 posted by kaptinemo on July 23, 2006 at 08:18:24 PT:

A few things have changed.
Read the part where the reporter says that the raid was conducted differently this time, without the SWAT theatrics. Used to be they had no trouble at all sticking guns in the face of moribund people in wheelchairs; now it seems they are a little more careful this time. I wonder why? Maybe this is why: Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America by Radley Balko http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6476 is calling the public's attention to the overuse of force in dealing with everyday, non-life-threatening situations a regular officer was once charged with handling. Perhaps the public's scrutiny will delve deep enough that more queries as to why this is happening will be raised.It can't happen soon enough.
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Comment #36 posted by John Tyler on July 23, 2006 at 08:18:04 PT

Miami Vice
In order to create buzz for the new Miami Vice movie there was show on NBC last night about the making of the Miami Vice movie (Yes, there is a Miami Vice movie coming soon to a theater near you. Colin Ferrell plays Crocket, and Jamie Fox plays Tubbs.), and as a bonus they showed the first episode of the TV show Miami Vice. What a nostalgia fest! One thing that stood out though, among the glitz and glamour, fast boats and faster cars, beautiful people, and the driving soundtrack was the fact that Crocket and Tubbs, though honest, and competent, were no match for the forces they were up against. When they did do an undercover deal, it would usually turn out that all of the participants were undercover agents themselves. They would end up drawing their guns and showing each other their badges and walk away empty handed. In the final scene there is a big shootout, as usual (this is a show after all), the “kingpin” person they were after is captured, only wiggle free, and is last seen, emerging from a limo, very nicely dressed, boarding a glitzy private amphibious airplane, and flying off to parts unknown in a very cool get away. All Crocket and Tubbs can say to each other is that, “We will get him next time”. Miami Vice was a metaphor for the whole futile, wasteful efforts of the Drug War. Lots of money has been wasted, lots of people have been sent to jail, lots of people have been killed since Miami Vice first aired 22 years ago, but in a sense nothing has changed. There may have been staff turnover, but the drug industry has sustained itself and prospered. This show emphasizes the fact that whole premise of the Drug War needs to be reevaluated. Some type of legalization, and harm reduction procedures are urgently called for if we are ever to have any resolution to this matter.

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Comment #35 posted by Hope on July 23, 2006 at 08:17:11 PT

Buckley and legal prescriptions
Obviously he's some sort of Pentacostal who believes a drug store is a den of witches.
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Comment #34 posted by Hope on July 23, 2006 at 08:15:28 PT

FoM
Unlike Stan, Steve didn't indicate exactly what scriptures he is referring to. I've been trying to remember who the two intoxicated people were that he speaks of that God killed.Do you know what he's referring to?
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Comment #33 posted by Hope on July 23, 2006 at 08:11:56 PT

Steve that dissed Stan....
I wonder why he is using the term "We" in his letter. It's apparently only signed by one person.
That's spooky when I think he's trying to say he's speaking for someone else, that he doesn't define or introduce, besides himself. Hmmm. I wonder who he thinks that is. Could he possibly be putting words in God's mouth?

I wonder why he is using false accusations, against Stan, my brother in Christ? Of course, as we know...it would be a "sin" for Steve Buckley to use any of the things he mentions use of as wrong...because it would be wrong for him. But that doesn't make it wrong for others. He's obviously one of those followers of the "traditions and rules of men" and not of God. He's all "Do not taste. Do not touch" kind of guys.It would be wrong to try to induce Mr. Buckley to use any of those things for medicine or otherwise...because it would be causing him to fall...or sin...in his own eyes and that would be bad. Unnecessary guilt doesn't go well on a free Christian. If a person believes it's wrong then it's wrong for him....but why should I be judged by another man's conscience?
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Comment #32 posted by Hope on July 23, 2006 at 08:11:55 PT

Comment #31 posted by FoM on July 23, 2006 at 08:02:22 PT

Just My Comment
All things are lawful but not all things are expedient. Moderation in all things. Noah got drunk and God loved him. What about people who are partying on legal prescription drugs gotten from a doctor? Does that Buckley person think that is ok? What about people who overeat and get high on food? Something must be wrong with people who look at life so narrowly.
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Comment #30 posted by Hope on July 23, 2006 at 07:50:54 PT

GCW
Steve Buckley is one of those who is rather adept at perverting a simple truth. We are warned about him and others like him. Obviously he's big on his own righteousness, as well, and disdains the righteousness that is of God.I pity him his ignorance and desire to exert some vengence of his own on our Stan.Mr. Buckley is a false teacher, I think, and is one of those who would put shackles on those that the Lord has set free. His eyes, and therefore, his whole being, is full of darkness. Apparently the gift of freedom in Christ is impossible for some people to accept and he is deluded about what is "sin"....like the arrogance and delusive thoughts coming from his chain bearing and darkened heart. I sense he is one of the present day Pharisees that Christians of every generation have had to suffer.He doesn't understand, either, that being "perfect" has to do with "love". There is no such thing as "tough love" either...unless it's about enduring love. "Tough love" as prohibitionists see it is nothing more than cruelty and bondage. It's hard to bear them, but bear them we must, apparently.
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Comment #29 posted by ekim on July 23, 2006 at 07:48:55 PT

hey whig hope your eyes get better
Whig the Leap speakers bureau is trying to have help in all the states. each state has certain speakers that are local to the area.
civic groups such as rotary or Kiwanis Clubs -- if you look at the events page you get a idea of the scope of the project and the great opportunities that are available. But when you read the events page keep in mind that there are many many more events that have not been booked as to the need for more speaker bureau coordinators.
As to you asking about money for the fees to hear the speakers I have helped out in a few here in MI and have never heard of a fee being asked for.
Like every mission on this earth I am sure that Leap needs money but as far as I know no fees are charged.
In fact many states are going without speaking dates because of lack of coordinators.
Here is a fone# and a start if anyone wishes to learn more about booking a Leap speaker or becoming a coordinator.The event is sponsored by the Drug Policy Alliance, LEAP and Common Sense for Drug Policy. For more information, please call 213-201-4785.Mike Smithson
speakers bureau coordinator
LEAP: Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
131 Flint Path, Syracuse, NY 13219-3403
cell: 315-243-5844 fax: 315-488-3630
speakers leap.cc http://www.leap.cc
http://www.leap.cc/events/
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Comment #28 posted by The GCW on July 23, 2006 at 05:15:56 PT

LTE response from one state to another...
US CO: PUB LTE: Tit for tat on drugs
Newshawk: The GCWPubdate: Fri, 14 July 2006Source: Summit Daily News (CO)Copyright: 2006 Summit Daily NewsContact: rslabaugh summitdaily.comWebsite: http://www.summitdaily.com/home.phpDetails: http://www.mapinc.org/media/587Author: Steve BuckleyNote: This letter in a Colorado newspaper is in response to a letter in a Nevada paper.Refferenced: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v06/n920/a08.html?237204
Tit for tat on drugsSteve Buckley
Carson City, Nev.
July 13, 2006This week, one of your local, Dillon citizens posted his opinion on how we should legalize pot in our state because "God made it." As a result, we seek to publish our opinion about his, in his local newspaper. However, I'll definitely need more than 250 words to do so. We think that Stan White is being hypocritical by using God as an excuse to get high. Perhaps he should go back and read his Bible more closely. It makes it real clear that those who practice drug-use are no different than those who practice divination, and witchcraft. It also discusses the judgment of God on those who come to him intoxicated while attempting to worship. At least two different people in the bible died as a result of coming to God while in that state of mind.Finally, in order to worship God, we must do so in "Spirit and Truth." Doing so while intoxicated prevents this from happening. Ephesians 5:19 says, "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit {of God}."The argument of "God made it, so it's got to be OK to use it" could easily be applied to opium, mescal, peyote, pot, etc, in Mr. White's argument. However, it ignores that the Bible calls all who will follow Jesus to live holy, and perfect lives. We're to "deny" our own desires, and live our lives unselfishly before our creator. Only by God's work in our lives is that possible.http://www.summitdaily.com/article/20060713/LETTER/107130072&SearchID=73251525072584
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Comment #27 posted by afterburner on July 23, 2006 at 04:58:03 PT

San Diego County Supervisors Are Complicit
Because the County Supervisors have been uncooperative to state law, viz. the Compassionate Use Act, have refused to regulate medical cannabis dispensaries and are suing the State of California using their lame "Federal Law Trumps State Law" gambit, the Feds, i.e. the DEA, sensing a vulnerable spot in California's governmental support for medical cannabis and the Compassionate Use Act, are emboldened to act as if the suit had already been won and are making threats to force the dispensaries to close.The county should be renamed "San Diablo" since their actions are diabolic (throwing apart), those of destruction, and the opposite of symbolic (throwing together). The citizens of California voted in the Proposition 215 initiative to *create* a medical cannabis program for the residents of California. The "San Diablo" County Supervisors, with the uncooperative and destructive attacks on the Compassionate Use Act, SB420, and the medical cannabis patients and their dispensaries, fly in the face of the will of the voters and of the State Legislature . This latest DEA action is so reminiscent of the Summer of Legalization in Ontario and several other Canadian Provinces. Even though courts had ruled that cannabis possession prohibition was null and void (unconstitutional) ("There is no offense known to the law" ruled several judges), the Toronto Police were instructed to confiscate any cannabis found on any person. This was the reason for the first smokeout in Toronto that launched Marc Emery's Summer of Legalization Tour. Under what authority can the police confiscate a legal plant product?Even though Marc was arrested and at times caged as he toured across Canada's provinces, all remaining charges were eventually stayed. Since the Ontario Court of Appeal reversed its own ruling and somehow magically resurrected a dead law (Ont. Court Fixes Ottawa's Medicinal Pot Program http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/17/thread17488.shtml ), many challenged cases have been stayed. (This micromanaging by judges amounting to re-writing laws was also used in Alaska in the meth-ijuana challenge, effectively reducing the amount of personal cannabis protected by privacy from 4 ounces to 1 ounce.) Furthermore, the Canadian police, knowing that they are on shaky ground, have seized equipment and records without pressing charges. The Internet is our salvation: we share experiences, actions and insights in order to help our global community. Unfortunately, the Internet is also used in a similar, but mirror image way by prohibitionists: - sneaky dirty legal tricks, like confiscating product without charges and charging people with trafficking just because they share a joint, - spreading junk science and propaganda, like the dangerous super-pot myth, are shared globally by police forces, governments and hack scientific researchers."Global ganja culture should now be going on the offensive. We have the prohibitionists on the run, we have momentum and public opinion on our side, and we must articulate a vision of how we want our culture and our plant defined in the new millennium."- Dana Larsen, Editor of Cannabis Culture
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Comment #26 posted by whig on July 23, 2006 at 00:58:43 PT

OT: Picture essay (NSFW and not for the squeamish)
http://billmon.org/archives/002551.html
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Comment #25 posted by whig on July 22, 2006 at 21:19:50 PT

ekim
Since I'm using my laptop for awhile, I did try the Magiceye site again with the LCD screen instead of my old CRT and I could...vaguely...begin to see some depth to the demonstration image. I could make out a circle in the center and sweeping bands, but my eyes corrected and I lost it pretty soon.Maybe I should try it again when I have some Magic Herbs to help. I don't think I will for awhile, because the California DMV says it will be at least two weeks and up to 60 days to receive an ID, and I cannot get a MMJ consultation without the California ID in the first place.I did check out Telegraph Ave in Berkeley today, it was pretty neat. Open market for pipes and things that could not, period, be sold openly where I used to live. But I'm not at all comfortable even attempting to deal with people on the street for herb itself.
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Comment #24 posted by whig on July 22, 2006 at 21:01:51 PT

ekim
Actually I cannot see the 3d things at all. It hurts my eyes to try, so I don't want to push it, especially since my uncorrected vision is really bad to begin with, I need at least 8.5 diopter lenses.As for LEAP, I'm not really sure what I can do to help. I don't actually know many people here yet and to the extent I would "reenter" the system it is only for the purpose of legalizing medicine, I still don't intend to register or vote and I don't know where or what group I could invite LEAP to speak at. I know some Libertarians over in Pittsburgh that I could try to put in touch with them, but I don't think they can afford or would be willing to pay for speakers for the most part.I guess I'm just not sure what you're asking me to do.
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Comment #23 posted by ekim on July 22, 2006 at 20:28:30 PT

whig would you give some thought
to the Leap org, and if in fact you do agree with it, would you use your great skills in helping Leap with speaker dates. As they have willing speakers but as of now are unable to pay someone. I do feel that soon more eyes will be upon the Leap mission and will in fact value the speaking dates as most vital and thus give much help in that direction. At any rate you are entering the system being able to set up speakers in defence of these clubs will be of huge use to many. have you ever gone to the magiceye.com site and read that by using the level of vision to see the 3d it can help us. i read that on the site where it helps the looker to see the images. i think things like that can help the person -like colors can but as yet we are unable to speak with much authority because most research has gone the cannabis route. i do not mean to just address this plea to whig but to all that see this. FoM has shown the way in passing information on with the only concern is that everyone be civil and respect one another. Leap is a reconition that laws must be changed for the officers to sleep at night. that is a big statement for a people to make.
http://www.leap.cc/events
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Comment #22 posted by whig on July 22, 2006 at 18:48:10 PT

mayan
I tell you that anyone who steals weed under color of law for their own use will be twice damned.
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Comment #21 posted by mayan on July 22, 2006 at 17:29:40 PT

JR B D
That's what crossed my mind. The cops won't have to put the weed in the evidence room since there were no arrests and there will be no trial. What will they do with it? Burn it? Hee-Hee!
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Comment #20 posted by JR Bob Dobbs on July 22, 2006 at 17:00:23 PT

Stealing. Theft. Robbery.
If they don't charge anyone with a crime, how can they justify taking "evidence"?If the person who steals from you is the police, who can you call?
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Comment #19 posted by ekim on July 22, 2006 at 16:20:33 PT

single most devastatingdysfunctional social policy

http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/
LEAP event in Los Angeles next ThursdayLink
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP), an organization of current and former members of law enforcement who believe the war on drugs has failed, will hold an event, "Law Enforcement Indicts the War of Drugs" on Thursday, July 27 from 6:30-8:30 p.m. at the Drug Policy Alliance's Los Angeles office, 610 Ardmore Ave. At the event, LEAP will offer a radical alternative to the failed war on drugs. The premier of LEAP's new 12-minute video will be followed by a panel of law enforcement and drug policy experts.
The event comes on the heels of the recent passage of the West Hollywood Marijuana Resolution to make marijuana enforcement the lowest priority, and a similar measure in Santa Monica which is expected to qualify for the November election. Polling indicates the public is overwhelmingly in favor of both measures."The drug war has arguably been the single most devastating, dysfunctional social policy since slavery," said Norm Stamper, the former Seattle Police Chief and LEAP member.LEAP, with over 3,000 members, was formed three years ago to give voice to law enforcement officers who believe the war on drugs has failed and who wish to support alternative policies that will lower the incidence of death, disease, crime, and addiction, by ultimately ending drug prohibition. LEAP is made up of former drug warriors -- police, parole, probation and correction officers, judges and prosecutors."Over a thousand young people went to jail as a direct result of what I did out there as one undercover agent...something I'm certainly not proud of today," said Cole, a retired undercover narcotics officer for the New Jersey State.The event is sponsored by the Drug Policy Alliance, LEAP and Common Sense for Drug Policy. For more information, please call 213-201-4785.Update: Bill writes to say that the number of LEAP members in this release is probably considerably understated. The LEAP website shows a membership of over 5,000. Impressive. And an impressive organization.
http://www.leap.cc/events
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Comment #18 posted by Its_only_a_plant on July 22, 2006 at 16:14:04 PT

They know their wrong
Courtesy visits? Since WHEN does the DEA make courtesy visits? I find it hard to believe that the federal government REALLY thinks has firm footing in prosecuting people from the dispensaries if they only warn people. Warn people?
You know a major $#!t storm is looming on the horizon for the DEA when they only confiscate all the medicine and warn the providers. Keep up the courageous fight San Diego, this is going to make the 6:00 news soon as it should have years ago. Prop 215 was passed by the people for the people, thats our form of government and that trumps the jackboots.
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Comment #17 posted by mayan on July 22, 2006 at 16:01:51 PT

Unrelated
Congressional candidate stumps on conspiracy:
http://tinyurl.com/ebxzaControversial Sign:
http://www.wric.com/Global/story.asp?S=5183005New Book by David Ray Griffin:
http://www.911blogger.com/2006/07/new-book-by-david-ray-griffin.htmlFalse Flag News: Saving the world one drill at a time:
http://falseflagnews.com/
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Comment #16 posted by E_Johnson on July 22, 2006 at 16:00:30 PT

Miami Vice is on tonight
A rerun of the TV pilot, to promote the film remake.I was wondering -- what could they possibly do with that show after Traffic?
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Comment #15 posted by unkat27 on July 22, 2006 at 15:28:26 PT

DEA nabs FREE WEED!
"Hey, guys, let's become DEA agents and go to cannabis shops in CA and steal whatever we want, then go and get high!"
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Comment #14 posted by mayan on July 22, 2006 at 14:52:46 PT

Naughty Narc,Crooked Cops,Wrong Wars
The U.S. government's "war on drugs" is just going down the tubes...Narcotics officer pleads guilty to extortion charges:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4064375.html3 Boston cops arrested in FBI cocaine sting:
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060722/4036464.aspThe U.S. government's "war on terror" isn't going so well either...U.S. losing war on terror, experts say:
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/heraldleader/news/world/14926687.htmBut what about the government's war OF terror?THE WAY OUT...9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB - OUR NATION IS IN PERIL
http://www.911sharethetruth.com/
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Comment #13 posted by FoM on July 22, 2006 at 12:16:39 PT

Graehstone
Couldn't a community garden work for people who are in your position living in an apartment? Isn't that how WAMM works to some degree or another? I know that they raided WAMM but it seems they are leaving them alone these days. Knock on wood.
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Comment #12 posted by global_warming on July 22, 2006 at 11:25:29 PT

Do You Understand
My position on Cannabis?Cannabis shall forever remain free.There can never be placed any commercial restrictions on this healing plant, it shall be grown freely, administered freely, for is this not a living world?Is this world an orphan from the Infinite?Answer: This World is part of the Spheres of Infinite Progression, and "we those people are members.
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Comment #11 posted by global_warming on July 22, 2006 at 11:11:57 PT

oops
sorry, if I have contributed to any of this disgrace, dishonor, and disobediant politics.
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Comment #10 posted by FoM on July 22, 2006 at 11:07:17 PT

global_warming
I'm sorry I didn't answer you but we had company. BGreen covered it. I don't believe in war. I only believe in peace.
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Comment #9 posted by global_warming on July 22, 2006 at 10:55:49 PT

In the meantime
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave? On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines on the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! O long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave. And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wiped out their foul footstep's pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave. Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heaven-rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
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Comment #8 posted by BGreen on July 22, 2006 at 10:50:54 PT

FoM was quoting the op-ed piece, Global Warming
I like this part that directly follows the part FoM quoted:But, I would choose candidates not by lottery but by utility, least useful groups considered first. This would be the order: 1. Congress members and their family members. 2. Lobbyists. 3. Lawyers. 4. Golfers. 5. People who vote in the American Idol contest. 6. SUV owners. 7. People who use their cell phones while driving. 8. Little League parents who scream at umpires. 9. Litterers. 10. Everybody else.This would ensure we had enough bodies in uniform to fight multiple wars, with the added advantage that there wouldn't be as many wars to fight. You think that Congress would back the president every time he said "Charge!" if there was even a remote chance that they'd be the ones getting shot? Fat chance.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #7 posted by FoM on July 22, 2006 at 10:48:51 PT

Graehstone
Thank you. I see the problem. Something must change.
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Comment #6 posted by Global_Warming on July 22, 2006 at 10:28:36 PT:

fomme
"I would make eligible all reasonably able-bodied people from the ages of 18 to 68"Why did you start at 18 and stop at 68?The enemy recruits from the cradle to the grave.
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Comment #5 posted by Graehstone on July 22, 2006 at 08:48:38 PT

Only recourse for some
They (dispensaries) have been around for a very long time now and are the only recourse for many patients that are not in a position to grow their own like myself because I live in a two bedroom apartment and would face eviction if I did.
They are a good thing, albeit there are some that abuse the privilege but they also pay the price as far as the law goes. The ones shut down (and the one I go to) yesterday were the compassionate ones, the ones that gave Veterans a discount and those that are on a tight budget at lowered prices and even in some cases medicine for free.
Now when we run out we have to go back to the narcotics the docs gave us or the street.
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Comment #4 posted by FoM on July 22, 2006 at 08:34:55 PT

Graehstone
Thank you for the update. I only wish I could understand why this is happening. I didn't know that medical marijuana dispensaries were allowed until I saw it in the article.
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Comment #3 posted by FoM on July 22, 2006 at 08:13:07 PT

Another Off Topic Article
Excerpt: It looks like we are going to have to bolster our troops there — with more troops.The point here is that we are going to need more troops everywhere, a lot more. And, with enlistments increasingly difficult to inspire, there's only one way to get them:Reinstate the draft. Return to those days of yesteryear, when going to war meant you actually knew someone who went. I wouldn't use the draft structure we used in Vietnam, however. That was patently unfair. It was weighted toward sweeping up the young and disadvantaged. We should learn from our mistakes.I would make eligible all reasonably able-bodied people from the ages of 18 to 68 (just to make sure the pool is big enough to satisfy requirements), and I wouldn't allow any deferments for students or fathers or mothers or any of those military irrelevancies.URL: http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060722/OPINIONS/607220322/1006
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Comment #2 posted by Graehstone on July 22, 2006 at 08:12:52 PT

It begins ...
Tuesday, July 25th, San Diego: Patient Community to Demand the City Council End the Raids!
Yesterday, DEA agents visited all of the remaining dispensaries in San Diego, demanding they shut down immediately. All access has been cut off for San Diego patients, and it's time to take action to protect safe access!On Tuesday, San Diego ASA and the patient community will be gathering to demand the City Council pass a resolution to end DEA and local law enforcement raids of dispensaries. Please join us to call on the city to take action!Gather 9:30 a.m. in front of City Hall, 220 C Street, San Diego
Speak to the council 10:00 a.m. in the Council Chambers.Please look for San Diego ASA members who will be in front of City Hall distributing talking points & copies of the proposed resolution.We now have patients that are going to be forced to go to the street and hope they get something that will help or remain in pain and in some cases just simply die.
The Devils Emmisaries in America have struck again.
We are all hoping for a very large turnout for the rally.
If you can't attend, then please say a little prayer for us.
Thank you.

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Comment #1 posted by FoM on July 22, 2006 at 07:55:45 PT

Off Topic: Gingrich Can't Wait For World War III

Nation: Neocons Are Nuts To Join Israel-Hezbollah ConflictJuly 21, 2006http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/21/opinion/main1824861.shtml
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