cannabisnews.com: SAFER Could Still Be Smarter





SAFER Could Still Be Smarter
Posted by CN Staff on October 24, 2005 at 07:14:46 PT
By David Harsanyi, Denver Post Staff Columnist 
Source: Denver Post 
Colorado -- Initiative 100 has caused quite a stir in recent weeks. And though I am sympathetic to the aims of Safer Alternative for Enjoyable Recreation (SAFER), there is a fundamental flaw in the campaign's logic that simply can't be overlooked. But more about that later.
If I -100 passes, Denver would be the first city - other than a couple of college towns like Ann Arbor and Berkeley - to decriminalize recreational pot, making it legal for anyone 21 or older to possess an ounce or less of marijuana. Should Americans have the liberty to be listless pods, spending all their disposable income on trail mix and bootleg Phish CDs, if they so choose? I think so. Well, as long as they don't force me to listen to Phish. So far, SAFER has done an admirable job of whipping up the controversy - and with it, media coverage - with signs that read "Make Denver Safer. " "Critics say that our signs are misleading," Mason Tvert, director of SAFER, tells me. "Yet, every day, I see signs in favor of Referendums C and D that read 'Move Colorado Forward.' ... Clearly, around 49 percent of Coloradoans disagree that C and D would move Colorado forward. Aren't those signs misleading?" They sure are. But "Vote Yes on the biggest tax increase in the history of Colorado!" would find as much traction as a billboard that read "Vote no! Screw roads; we have SUVs!" Show me an honest campaign and I'll show you a losing one. Snipped:Complete Article: http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/smarter.htmSource: Denver Post (CO)Author:  David Harsanyi, Denver Post Staff Columnist Published: Monday, October 24, 2005 Copyright: 2005 The Denver Post CorpWebsite: http://www.denverpost.com/Contact: openforum denverpost.com Related Articles & Web Sites:Safer Choicehttp://www.saferchoice.org/Change The Climatehttp://www.changetheclimate.org/The 'Virtues' of Pothttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21220.shtmlPot Backers Try Againhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21210.shtmlControversial Pot Billboard Goes Uphttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21209.shtml
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Comment #73 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 15:30:08 PT
escapegoat
It's nice to see you. I don't know if Taylor121 is here right now but he goes to DrugWarRant like Hope and Kapt do too.
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Comment #72 posted by escapegoat on October 27, 2005 at 15:23:14 PT
Hi Taylor...
I see you're over here now, instead of Drug War Rant.
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Comment #71 posted by FoM on October 26, 2005 at 07:38:12 PT
Toker00 
Have a great and safe day. Let us know how it went when you get home.
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Comment #70 posted by Toker00 on October 26, 2005 at 03:19:31 PT
On the road.
Heading out. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the weather heads up, Hope. Thanks, FoM. Think of me about 12:00 noon. I'll probably be staring down a jack boot thug. Wage peace. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #69 posted by FoM on October 25, 2005 at 22:09:58 PT
Toker00
I hope we can meet. Kapt was here and we had fun. Now that we have more room it will be easier as long as we can finish it. A lot of our problems are with the furniture. I want to make sure everyone gets something they really want. We don't have any children so nieces and nephews are the ones that will be getting the furniture and it must be right for everyone or I won't be happy. I could probably make money selling some of it on ebay but I just can't do that. Memories just aren't for sale. I think we will be finished in the next year. I hate to think too far ahead but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
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Comment #68 posted by Hope on October 25, 2005 at 21:23:15 PT
Toker00
Be prepared for a bit of cool weather and some wind. It's not expected to get any warmer than 71 degrees tomorrow...with 5 to 10 mph hour wind.
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Comment #67 posted by Hope on October 25, 2005 at 21:20:07 PT
Oh man...this is so off topic.
I just surfed into this and you have to see it and read about it. It is so cool.New mathematics-based sculpture unveils fourth dimension
http://www.physorg.com/news7409.html
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Comment #66 posted by Hope on October 25, 2005 at 21:11:20 PT
"I am a public"
You dang sure are, Toker. I'm so glad there will be someone there. I hate to think about everyone being too busy or too lame to take a little time out to at least be counted as caring. Someone might notice. They might talk at dinner tomorrow night about the guy they saw marching in front of Health and Human Services. Maybe three people will wake up from their stupor and realize something might be going on. That’s three more than were awake yesterday and maybe they will wake three more next week.I understand what you mean that it doesn't matter to you if there is a crowd or not...it just matters to you most that you are there. I think that's a right way to be. I've often thought...'one shows up marching around or handing out pamphlets, they think you're crazy'...'two, together... they are kind of fearful or doubtful of you'... 'Threes a crowd!'Meeting. It is a wonderful thing...or at least it has been for me. I've met some fine people in person that I had talked to online for some time. In fact, the very first person I really talked to online turned out to be one of the, I believe it was nine or ten at that time, Federal legal cannabis patients. I think the world of him and his wife. I consider them dear friends. I hope they think the same of me. I've met several people like that...that's how I knew you'd likely get a big ole bear hug...although a lame one right now. Hey…I’m a slightly reformed “church lady”. I gotta be huggin me someone sometime.
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Comment #65 posted by Toker00 on October 25, 2005 at 21:05:41 PT
FoM
What an honor that would be!Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #64 posted by FoM on October 25, 2005 at 20:30:03 PT
Toker00
One of these days we might be able to meet. When we decided to expand our home a lot of the reason was we don't have any room for guests. Our upstairs which is bedrooms are full of furniture that we inherited and didn't know what we should do about it so it's still stored for a little while longer and then we will give it to our relatives. If we get our new room finished next spring like we hope we can we will have room for visitors. So maybe one of these days.
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Comment #63 posted by FoM on October 25, 2005 at 20:17:28 PT
Sukoi 
Thank you so much. Now I have listened to a Phish song. It was great!
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Comment #62 posted by Toker00 on October 25, 2005 at 20:08:44 PT
Hey Hope, no prob!
The only person I really expect to be there, is me. They need to know the public supports re-legalizing cannabis as medicine. I am a public, I support it, and I will be there. Tell your husband thanks for trying, and don't feel bad about it. There WILL be a next time. You'll see. One of these days, I'm gonna meet a real C-newser, I just know it!Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #61 posted by Sukoi on October 25, 2005 at 19:43:25 PT
FoM Re: comment 50
You've got some musical email...
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Comment #60 posted by Hope on October 25, 2005 at 19:20:10 PT
FoM and Toker00
Thank you, FoM. That's so sweet of you to say. It made me smile and blush a bit and be happy and all that good stuff at the end of this long day.I'm not "hot" or "beautiful", either one, but I do hope my spirit is right and does have a sort of pleasantness to behold and not ugliness, like hatred, cruelty, and spite, to behold, in it, in that way. Thank you. I do clean up pretty good, though. :0) Toker, I won't be able to make it tomorrow. I just found out for sure this evening. My shoulder is still too bunged up to feel right about driving that far and in close, heavy traffic myself. It still doesn't do everything I tell it to and does some strange things occasionally that I don't tell it to. My husband was going to drive me, but he can't now, so I won't get to be there. I was looking so forward to meeting you...and yes...I'd have to give you a big ole bear hug. But not this time...unless something changes between now and then. I'm so sorry. The more people that will show up for these things the better. I'm really bummed that I can't be there with you guys.
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Comment #59 posted by FoM on October 25, 2005 at 10:55:59 PT
Hope
I know you are beautiful. The spirit of a person determines how they look to me.
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Comment #58 posted by Hope on October 25, 2005 at 10:48:03 PT
Rosa Parks
That is beautiful, Toker00. She had a big job to do...and didn't realize it until it happened.In my way of thinking about God...I think she was likely assigned that task before she was even born or maybe he raised her up to it. Finally, one day the day came. She was tired. She had been working hard. She didn't give up her seat. What a lovely woman.Toker, I'm not vain either. I hope. I've been back and forth across that line some people call "ugly" so many times in my life that it's just been sort of a fascinating view of human behavior towards others. I've been a "beauty queen" (aaarggh) and struck with acne vulgaris in my late twenties, I've been a Whilite Peanut Pattie face. I've born my scars with dignity, I believe. I've been real fat, real thin and a lot in between. It's been interesting.
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Comment #57 posted by Toker00 on October 25, 2005 at 09:26:22 PT
Not hot? That's Kool!
That's ok Hope. I'm not hot any day. I have to earn my respect. Everyday. Vanity has no place in my life. But you beautiful people go ahead. I sure don't mind lookin'!: )See ya in Big D, Hope. FoM, I will report. PeaceOut.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW! 
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Comment #56 posted by FoM on October 25, 2005 at 09:21:46 PT
Toker00 
What a wonderful tribute to Rosa Parks.Hope thank you.
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Comment #55 posted by Toker00 on October 25, 2005 at 09:17:05 PT
M'Lady
I bid thee well, Rosa Parks. The spark that ignited the fire. Of all the wonderful,fine, women in the world, I believe Rosa Parks is my pick for No. 1 HEROIN. I love watching the video clips of her. That woman had dignity. Like all Humans do. But she stood up and sat down on inhumanities. May your creator welcome you home with arms wide. Much love.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #54 posted by Hope on October 25, 2005 at 09:06:32 PT
Sounds on target, to me...
"I can imagine a grandmother telling her grandchild about The Dead and the grandchild says oh but Grandma you need to listen to Phish."The sound systems we old "heads" try to have are a delight to some children. Music and dancing are so good for you. Let me share a sweet, to me, story. My granddaughter had some friends over and we were listening ....wall shaking at times...to hip hop. We were dancing and acting silly. One of the little girls (teenager actually) had a funny look on her face while I was dancing with them. She finally said, to my granddaughter, "Dang, you're hot...your mother is hot...and even your grandmother is hot!"Toker...if I make it to Dallas tomorrow...don't look for the "hot" old lady. I was "hot" last week...but not this week. Yo-yo weight effects my appearance of "hotness" from day to day. :0) No...not a "hot" week, this week.FoM, what you are doing is so important and I don't see how you make the time for it anyway. The price you paid for your relative freedom today was far too high...but I know your son would be so proud of what you are doing in his name for so many others. If you didn't lead such a relatively isolated and serene, peaceful country life and have such a supportive husband...the whole movement would be that much farther behind. It's so important for everyone...but especially the young children and teens of today. Maybe you will save them from being saddled with a record or jail house rape for the rest of their lives for a youthful indiscretion. I'm sure hoping for that. 
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Comment #53 posted by siege on October 25, 2005 at 08:34:11 PT
non alcohol 
Marijuana don't make her clothes fall off, like Tequila dose.
she is in full control there no date rape there like tequila
she don't lose her dignity as with tequila   
when she comes home it's not in a table colth. and can stand proud no one will be taking about her the next day.
she has had fun with out losing her clothes and dignity.
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Comment #52 posted by siege on October 25, 2005 at 07:59:21 PT
AlvinCool
Thanks : I reread it and see where I missed the hole theme of it... 
Art
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Comment #51 posted by FoM on October 25, 2005 at 07:44:53 PT
Toker00 
You're welcome. Please let us know how to goes tomorrow. I live so far from civilization that taking part in anything would mean a really long trip to get there so that's why I don't go to events. 
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Comment #50 posted by FoM on October 25, 2005 at 07:42:31 PT
Sukoi 
Thank you. I haven't ever heard any of their music. That's only because I am older and decided on what music I liked a long time ago. Cannabis and it's culture bridges even generation gaps. I can imagine a grandmother telling her grandchild about The Dead and the grandchild says oh but Grandma you need to listen to Phish. 
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Comment #49 posted by AlvinCool on October 25, 2005 at 04:20:07 PT
I don't see it the way you guys do
This is an article specifically crafted to force people to look at tactics used by the government and compare them to what is now being used against the government and it's very tounge in cheek about it. And as anyone knows if you really looked at both sides which would DENVER perfer? The answer is simple.The guy running this campain is a pure genius and the person that wrote this is working with him. This is a campain style that can be repeated over and over and the governemt will just be able to scratch their heads and their uh heads and never be able to defend against it without supporting it. I'm sorry but some of you guys are as stuck in a rut as John Walters. Get over it and watch what is really happening here. 
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Comment #48 posted by Toker00 on October 25, 2005 at 04:10:14 PT
Attend, attend, attend
Thanks for posting that, FoM. That is the one I am attending in Dallas.Rosa Parks was a very brave woman. Thank God for her spark that brought the fire of the civil rights movement. Thank you, Rosa. RIPWage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #47 posted by i420 on October 25, 2005 at 03:47:59 PT
News to me...
If I -100 passes, Denver would be the first city - other than a couple of college towns like Ann Arbor and Berkeley - to decriminalize recreational pot, making it legal for anyone 21 or older to possess an ounce or less of marijuana.Last time I was in Ann Arbor possession amounted to a ticket. This writer ought to get their facts straight.
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Comment #46 posted by Sukoi on October 25, 2005 at 03:40:45 PT
Phish
FoM, here are the lyrics to the only Phish song that I've ever heard, it's quite good:MarijuanaWell once upon a time in 1776 Thomas Jefferson signed his name on a piece of marijuana, and this document was a symbol of freedom and of liberty, at least for the rich, white, gentry. And time marched along, this plant that I referred to has been used for everything from medicine to the American flag. And now it seems to me that somewhere along the way things got messed up, yeah, messed up, for marijuana. A gift of God to my brothers and me. Oh marijuana…the government wants to test me when I pee. Well some say a conspiracy, ? chemical and ? paper industries combined to kill the competition, government hysteria, monopoly, and conflict of interest, with total impunity. Yeah, so, if you don’t buy the conspiracy, just look at the reality that your tax dollars go to spray poison on the fields of a farmer in South America. And as an added bonus, your neighbor might be the proud recipient of that poison weed. Oh marijuana…the government wants to test me when I pee. Oh marijuana…a gift of God to my brothers and me. Oh marijuana…you can’t legislate your own morality. Oh marijuana…the government wants to test me when I pee. Free from madness, chronic sadness, what is the half-life of bad propaganda? The policies fail, denied bail, you made him a demon now pay for his trip to prison. Hard to promote the status quote, but what is the shelf life of bad legislation? The hypocrite smirks, it’s a moral disgrace as he reads from the law that was written about the same time that he had his last original thoughts. Men said he was dying and the nausea and the pain left him wasting away and unable to keep a meal down. So he tried everything prescription could obtain but to no avail. The side effects were worse than the pain. So now he breaks the law to use the one thing that seems to help him out. But the people say, “Oh he’s just gettin high.” Not to change the subject but, didn’t you ever wonder why getting high’s a crime. Yeah a crime. Oh marijuana…a gift of God to my brothers and me. Oh marijuana…now the government wants to test me when I pee. Oh marijuana…the government wants to test me when I pee. Oh marijuana…the government wants to test me when I pee. Oh marijuana…the government wants to test me when I pee. Oh marijuana…(this is the part where everybody would sing along) when I pee. http://www.mlyrics.com/lyrics/Phish/unknown/Marijuana
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Comment #45 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 20:57:46 PT
Change in Society Comes In Simple Ways
I believe that most good social change happens without it even being a dream but just a basic fundamental reaction to injustice. Martin Luther King did wonderful things. Bobby Kennedy would have done wonderful things but neither of them lived long enough to finish their dream. When I think of The Bus I think of how people back then didn't believe the way things were was the best way. The Hippie culture gave birth to people who cared for the earth, civil rights issues and the need for tolerance. I hope that our social conscience is waking up particularly after what happened to the poor people in New Orleans. 
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Comment #44 posted by Hope on October 24, 2005 at 20:42:41 PT
Rosa Parks
I really admired her, too.
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Comment #43 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 20:19:43 PT
Hope
Thank you. It is ironic how we are talking about The Bus and Rosa Parks passes away. She was a hero and a very brave lady. I know that she will rest in peace.
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Comment #42 posted by Hope on October 24, 2005 at 20:04:05 PT
Back of the bus...
The great Rosa Parks has passed away.
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Comment #41 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 19:28:21 PT
Marijuana Rescheduling Protest 
Marijuana Rescheduling Protest at United States Health and Human Services10/23/2005 SAN FRANCISCO CONSIDERS SCALING BACK DISPENSARIES; NATIONAL PROTESTS AT HHS A San Francisco Rally for Rescheduling Marijuana will be held at 12pm on Wednesday, October 26th. It will be held at Health and Human Services, 50 United Nations Plaza. Southern California Americans for Safe Access is chartering a bus from San Diego with stops in Santa Ana, the San Fernando Valley, and Santa Barbara. The bus will leave San Diego on the morning of October 25th. 
Read More On Indybay's Drug War Page On October 18th, Supervisor Ross Mirkarimi's bill regulating Medical Cannabis Dispensaries (MCD's) was debated before the San Francisco Board of Supervisors. For three hours, various supervisors, including Maxwell, Alioto-Pier, Daly passed hostile amendments gutting the bill with zoning requirements which could effectively shut all or most dispensaries in the City (Supervisor Chris Daly won an amendment that adds large portions of South of Market as a no-medical cannabis dispensary zone). 
The bill was continued over to this week's hearing, which will be held on Tuesday, October 25th, 2005 at 2PM at San Francisco City Hall, Room 250. This may be the final vote on regulation of dispensing collectives in San Francisco. Medical marijuana advocates are encouraging people to voice their displeasure over this process and to show support for the City's MCDs. Organizations are also encouraged to write letters or make phone calls to the Board of Supervisors. http://www.indybay.org/archives/archive_by_id.php?id=3696&category_id=12Read More On Indybay's Drug War Page http://www.indybay.org/drugwar/
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Comment #40 posted by global_warming on October 24, 2005 at 18:33:28 PT
After all, who is the one still giving I-100 free 
PublicityShameful expositions of nudity nailed on a cross,Free and withouth shame or guiltStand before the hand that Lights this universeGateways that frightenThose frightenedCan find a handIn this climate of zero tolerance,Change the ClimateEnd this violence,We are all home,
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Comment #39 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 18:23:05 PT
global_warming 
Glad you liked the idea.
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Comment #38 posted by mayan on October 24, 2005 at 18:16:32 PT
CHOICE
Ironically, SAFER is advancing arguments against personal responsibility. They are admonishing alcohol in rhetoric suspiciously similar to that used by drug warriors about pot.Wrong! Do you hear SAFER calling for the incarceration of alcohol users and sellers? SAFER is simply saying that we should have CHOICE. Those who ban cannabis and cage it's users are the ones against personal responsibility. SAFER Could Be Smarter? It seems to me that David Harsanyi could be smarter. After all, who is the one still giving I-100 free publicity? Thanks again!On an unrelated note, Got press freedom?
 
U.S. Ranks 44th in Worldwide Press Freedom Index: Nation's openness sinking after Sept. 11, northern Europe tops the list:
http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?article_class=3&no=254376&rel_no=1THE WAY OUT IS THE WAY IN...URGE FITZGERALD TO EXPAND INVESTIGATION TO INCLUDE 9/11!!!
http://growingtrend.com/CAMPAIGN: NEW YORK TIMES AND 9/11: 
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2005/10/campaign-new-york-times-and-911.html911 - The Movie:
http://rense.com/general68/911themovie.htmHani Hanjour: 9/11 Pilot Extraordinaire:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hanjour.htmlCase For WTC Tower Demolition Sealed By Griffin:
http://rense.com/general68/caseforWTCtower.htm
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Comment #37 posted by Taylor121 on October 24, 2005 at 18:13:15 PT
O'Reilly Interviews Former Cop
Norm Stamper, the one that wrote "Let those dopers be" in the LA Times is on O'Reilly tonight. It replays several times so you might want to check it out and spread the word around.
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Comment #36 posted by global_warming on October 24, 2005 at 18:09:12 PT
Wow
I feel betterCause Jesus is driving that Bus,And "we" are "all" on that Bus,
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Comment #35 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 17:55:41 PT
 global_warming 
The Carpenter you mention is probably the driver of the bus.
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Comment #34 posted by global_warming on October 24, 2005 at 17:46:38 PT
re:Kindness
That gentle handIs raised before the last prophet of the Hebrews,That carpenter who was nailed to a wooden cross,That same old bus
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Comment #33 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 16:38:06 PT
global_warming 
That is very kind of you to say. Dankhank well then I'll take a walk to the back of the bus while I'm on my journey! LOL!
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Comment #32 posted by global_warming on October 24, 2005 at 16:31:33 PT
Ok subject
Sorry FOMThis is a cannabis news group,Thank You FOM,You have been a most gracious hostI imagine that in some future timeFlowers will be carried to your gravesite,Express delivery from gw, and faces that you never recognized,Your gentle handIs succor from this infinite Night,When Dawn Lights our place on that bus.
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Comment #31 posted by Dankhank on October 24, 2005 at 16:30:19 PT
Back O the Bus ...
That's where the bad boys hung out ...
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Comment #30 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 16:02:48 PT
global_warming 
I don't want to go to the back of the bus. No one should ever have to go to the back of the bus.
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Comment #29 posted by global_warming on October 24, 2005 at 15:56:20 PT
Please go to the back of that Bus
Thanks EJ for comment #4, well written,That culture war that you mentioned is also inspired, thanks.You are starting to sound more and more like that analytical Observer, thanks.
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Comment #28 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 15:13:27 PT
I'm Just Still On The Bus
When I die and go to Heaven I'll probably travel up there this way!http://www.themetravelers.com/60s_-_Hippie_Land_Bus.photo.jpg
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Comment #27 posted by Taylor121 on October 24, 2005 at 15:11:14 PT
Cool, I might check it out
"Taylor121Come on over to the New York Times Drug Policy Forum, if you're not already there. We have wrestled with this issue there at great length."I will say this, we are in 100% agreement that cannabis should be the primary focus right now even if you agree with my stance on ending prohibition. 
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Comment #26 posted by Toker00 on October 24, 2005 at 15:08:40 PT
DEA
When prohibition is repealed, (and it will be for cannabis)
the Drug Enforcement Agency should be reformed into the Drug Education Agency, and forced to assume the responsibility of educating society about drug use, drug abuse, and drug abuse treatment. They should be made to publicly apologize, continually, for a long period of time, for the lies they have enforced for 68 years to keep Cannabis/Hemp off the free market. They should admit this conspiracy. Because we know "Marijuana" was banned to eliminate cannabis hemp, the natural competition to the petro, timber, cotton, textile, pharmaceutical, chemical, paper, and food industries.One drug at a time, auight Taylor121? I have no doubt some drugs will be made available for religious sacrement or even recreation (aren't some already?) some day in the not to distant future. Or you can just call me overly optimistic!Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!  
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Comment #25 posted by Celaya on October 24, 2005 at 15:07:32 PT
Appropriate Venue
-- FoMYou're welcome!-- Taylor121Come on over to the New York Times Drug Policy Forum, if you're not already there. We have wrestled with this issue there at great length.
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Comment #24 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 15:04:53 PT
Taylor
And thank you too. I really appreciate it.
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Comment #23 posted by Taylor121 on October 24, 2005 at 15:01:49 PT
Celaya, 
I could respond in detail, but I will respect FoM in not saying anymore on the subject. 
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Comment #22 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 14:56:01 PT
Celaya 
Thank you.
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Comment #21 posted by Celaya on October 24, 2005 at 14:44:38 PT
Marijuana Reform Should Be A Stand-Alone Issue
-- Taylor121"SOME cannabis users become addicted"It depends on your definition of addiction.  There are no significant physical withdrawal symptoms with pot so, in most folks' definition, it is not addicting. The sudden appearance of this new relationship with drugs - "dependency" doesn't pass the smell test to me.  Sounds like it was invented just to demonize marijuana consumers. If there is a dependency on pot, then there is the same kind of dependency on chocolate and golf. The term does not convey a disorder or even a problem. Mostly, it just means someone who likes a certain activity and enjoys it regularly and often. 
"We are cannabis users and we think we are so good to demonize other drug users because THEIR drug of choice isn't what we deem as safe enough?"Every drug is a different story. It is the prohibitionists who love to LUMP them together in order to demonize marijuana. We shouldn't let them get away with it."The war on harder drugs is creating a plethora of problems, people are dying maybe even more so than the war on cannabis because of unregulated purities and potencies, and no one seems to care" 
Nobody should go to jail for the possession of any recreational drug, but besides marijuana's lack of harms, it's prohibition is causing the most harm because of the great numbers of consumers and consequent greater numbers of arrests - now near 800,000 EACH YEAR. Also, marijuana prohibition is the prohibitionists' Achilles Heel. It is where they are most vulnerable. According to a Zogby poll, a majority of Americans now want an end to marijuana arrests. For that reason alone, we should focus on marijuana.-- E Johnson"The implication is these young men should be fired with ambition to march harder and faster on the social treadmill, instead of jumping off the treadmill and wandering in the woods looking for a path that actually goes somewhere worthwhile."Great imagery!
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Comment #20 posted by boballen1313 on October 24, 2005 at 13:43:37 PT
THANK GOD!
John P. Walters might want to check and see if Osama Bin Laden has a history of cannabis use... I am sure the case would be made that cannabis actually CAUSED the attack on America. I would like to make the case that sobriety is the reason for our insane war in Iraq. Unreigned, dangerous, greedy, self righteous sobriety! AmenI had an uncle that my aunt blamed his obnoxious behaviour on the Black Velvet... not the fact that my uncle was a general mongrel with or without the grog.
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Comment #19 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 13:38:23 PT
CounterCulture
EJ I agree. The cannabis culture is a thinking and feeling culture.Even John Denver sang about it in his one song.While my friends and my old lady sit and pass the pipe around.Poems, prayers and promises
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Comment #18 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 13:31:44 PT
Taylor
What EJ said really would help us out. I believe different people have different issues based on how life has taken them. The two different ideologies are just that different. Cannabis is a unique issue and drug issues are unique to others. I want to live to see the day when the laws are changed concerning cannabis and then I'll retire or shift gears. 
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Comment #17 posted by Taylor121 on October 24, 2005 at 13:29:19 PT
Ejohnson, I know
That was my final message, I just want to get everyone's brain going. I know it's off topic, my subject underlines that. Just putting it out there, back to cannabis :)
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Comment #16 posted by E_Johnson on October 24, 2005 at 13:23:12 PT
Taylor121 please listen to FoM
The topic you want to discuss can be discussed on a lot of sites other than this one. If she doesn't want it here, then what else is there left to say?
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Comment #15 posted by E_Johnson on October 24, 2005 at 13:19:54 PT
FoM it goes back 1000 years at least
THis is why Sufis were persecuted for smoking hashish back in the 12th century. It was about this same countercultural behavior. The 12th century equivalent of preferring trail mix and Phish in a Pringles and Ashlee Simpson culture.
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Comment #14 posted by Taylor121 on October 24, 2005 at 13:18:39 PT
OT still: Harder drugs, FoM
“Taylor, I am not into hard drug issues. I never have been. That's why this site is called Cannabis News. I've seen people die and wreck their lives from using hard drugs. I can't deny what I have seen or believe. I can't violate my conscience.”FoM, you know I have the utmost respect for you and we wouldn’t even be discussing any of this if it wasn’t for you and CNews, so I appreciate everything you are doing so don’t misunderstand me when I’m about to argue with you. We will always be on the same page with cannabis reform.With that said, I disagree with your statement above and quite a few of your statements on other illicit drugs. By your logic, alcohol should be banned. Let me explain why. “I have seen people die and wreck their lives using alcohol. I can’t deny what I have seen or believe. I can’t violate my conscious, therefore alcohol should be illegal.”It would be extremely easy by your rational to support a ban alcohol which caused an upsurge of violence in the 20’s. Prohibition was evil then and is evil now. The entire thing is evil. Back to your case above, you have seen people die from harder drugs; I have seen the addiction as well. However, it is important for all of us as much as we can be rational beings to recognize the entire picture and not a particular. Our personal experiences can not be used to make a universal claim. Imagine, some people actually support a ban on cannabis because they know somebody that could not stop using it despite wanting to, one of the 9% of folks that end up becoming dependent on the substance, a small minority. That person then claims to know all about cannabis and how bad it is while negating that the vast majority of persons that use cannabis have no such problems, and it simply shouts to everyone else that this person has grossly distorted view as to what cannabis truly is. The same applies for harder drugs. Quite a few of us here probably have a limited understanding as to what every other particular substance’s properties are. It seems wrong to come to the conclusion that people using harder drugs deserve prison and a felony, completely wrecking their lives, and this conclusion is based on emotional fear rather than rational understanding of the drug. Prohibition isn’t just about marijuana, it’s about every drug, it’s about limiting freedom of consciousness and limiting human potential and from a utilitarian standpoint causes far more pain than happiness. 
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Comment #13 posted by Sam Adams on October 24, 2005 at 11:36:16 PT
music
I wonder if Clarence Thomas and Al Gore listened to Phish when they sparked up. What about Bush? Maybe all that blow got him too jacked up to enjoy jam bands. Maybe if he had a nice mellow Dead bootleg in, he wouldn't have driven like a maniac & gotten popped for DUI.I'm sure none of the reporters at the Post have ever used herb. I'm sure none of them are drunks, either.
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Comment #12 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 11:20:44 PT
A Culture War
Thanks EJ and Dankhank. The cannabis culture is different and hasn't changed much from the 60s until today. Taylor, I am not into hard drug issues. I never have been. That's why this site is called Cannabis News. I've seen people die and wreck their lives from using hard drugs. I can't deny what I have seen or believe. I can't violate my conscience. 
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Comment #11 posted by Dankhank on October 24, 2005 at 11:06:32 PT
Phish
If there was to be a successor to the Dead maybe Phish is/was it. Constant touring, outdoor venues, loyal fan- atics.That's what I think I know about them ...
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Comment #10 posted by Taylor121 on October 24, 2005 at 11:05:27 PT
Harder drug issue etc... OT kinda
I do in fact have a slight problem with cannabis users condemning harder drug users by labeling their drugs unsafe and horrible. By and large, they are less safe than cannabis, but by and large the vast majority of people that use them DO NOT become mindless zombies or addicts, INCLUDING meth. Some cocaine users lose control and become addicted, should we punish all of them? Some alcohol users become addicted, should we punish all of them? SOME cannabis users become addicted, should we punish all of them? See where I'm going with this?It's an issue of personal autonomy, of individualism, of being able to make your own choices as an adult as you see fit. Where is the human spirit? We are cannabis users and we think we are so good to demonize other drug users because THEIR drug of choice isn't what we deem as safe enough? It sounds to me like prohibitionists talking about alcohol being okay but other drugs not. I don't like it one bit. Now obviously our focus should be on cannabis right now, but some of you need to take a serious look at yourselves and ask yourself if you are truly advocating freedom and what is best for society (ie harm reduction). The war on harder drugs is creating a plethora of problems, people are dying maybe even more so than the war on cannabis because of unregulated purities and potencies, and no one seems to care (how many cops die from harder drug busts needlessly?). It's time to regulate all of these substances, including amphetamines (strictly regulated, more so than alcohol or cannabis would be).
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Comment #9 posted by E_Johnson on October 24, 2005 at 11:05:10 PT
It's a culture war FoM
Their defamatory commentary shows exactly what it is they don't like about marijuana -- the culture adopted by the users.Now let's examine this critically. Why is buying trail mix something worth mocking? It's not -- trail mix is made of nuts and dried fruit. Eating nuts and dried fruit is a lot better for you than eating the mass market processed carbohydrates advertised as discounted prices every day in this paper.What about Phish? Have you ever seen a record company take out a full page ad in the newspaper to promote Phish?The listless part -- well, look at who that accusation is aimed at -- primarily young men in their early 20s.The implication is these young men should be fired with ambition to march harder and faster on the social treadmill, instead of jumping off the treadmill and wandering in the woods looking for a path that actually goes somewhere worthwhile.
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Comment #8 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 09:44:41 PT
Toker
I believe that we must hold our heads up and be strong. I refuse to clutter my mind with hard drug issues. I know that Cannabis stands alone and it needs to be re-scheduled. Years ago when I was exchanging e-mails with Joyce she brought up the drug legalizers and I said no I am not at all interested in the drug issue. I want to help fix this long war on a plant that helped people for years before it was made illegal. NORML's web site is growing when I check a certain ranking system and that shows me that we are on a roll and not to look left or right.
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Comment #7 posted by Toker00 on October 24, 2005 at 09:23:38 PT
FoM
Yeah. Maybe Phish should sue them, too. That's a cool idea to build on, EJ. Thanks.They will find out how listless we are when the DEA is forced to reschedule cannabis. Their house of cards are falling down, and burning as it crashes.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #6 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 09:08:03 PT
Phish 
I have only heard the name of this group. I've never listened to any of their music. I know this isn't important but I don't understand why a group was even mentioned in the article.
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Comment #5 posted by FoM on October 24, 2005 at 08:31:06 PT
EJ Good Idea
I think that cannabis people are intelligent. They know the dangers of hard drugs legal and illegal. They think, they try to do good things to help society and are less selfish then the powers that be. If that is a bad thing then what in the world is a good thing?
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Comment #4 posted by E_Johnson on October 24, 2005 at 08:25:41 PT
Here's my letter
Dear editors,I have a wonderful idea. Montel Williams is a regular marijuana user. I think you should write an editorial calling him a "listless pod, spending all his disposable income on trail mix and bootleg Phish CDs," so that he can sue you for libel and defamation of character.He uses more pot every day than any recreational user. You didn't say that only recreational users become listless pods. You made that false and defamatory statement about everyone who uses marijuana.If you really think that was a true thing to say, then you should be eager for a chance to defend this idea in court. SO say it about someone who can fight back, and we'll see who is lying and who is standing up for the truth.
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Comment #3 posted by E_Johnson on October 24, 2005 at 08:14:54 PT
Tell them it's defamatory and libelous
Everone send them a letter saying you are a marijuana user, you are not a listless pod, and you are consulting a lawyer to see if there is such a thing as a class action suit for libel.Please do this, because nothing scares a newspaper more than the thought of a lawsuit.Technically, only individuals can sue for libel. BUT maybe there's new case law waiting to be made, and maybe we could make it.What they're doing is in fact libelous. It shows a reckless disregard for the truth. It is false and defamatory.And it's easy to disprove. The mere fact that marijuana users are organizing to change the law proves they are not listless pods.Everyone should send them letters threatening a class action suit for libel.Threaten them with one even if there's no such thing that I ever heard of.It will at least make them feel a tiny bit guilty, because journalists often have to be taught through lawsuits that lying is wrong.
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Comment #2 posted by siege on October 24, 2005 at 07:43:51 PT
achieve 
If cannabis smokers have achieve/gained this, how are they LISTLESS!
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Comment #1 posted by siege on October 24, 2005 at 07:36:04 PT
 neads brain cells or 
This person has no though about the words he is using Main Entry: 	listless1
Part of Speech: 	adjectiveDefinition: 	having no inclination or spirit; characterized by unwillingingness to exertEtymology: 	Middle English list `desire' + less
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