cannabisnews.com: Advisory Panel Split on Ordinances 










  Advisory Panel Split on Ordinances 

Posted by CN Staff on November 11, 2004 at 13:12:47 PT
By Arcenia Harmon of the Tribune’s Staff  
Source: Columbia Daily Tribune  

Members of a local board that advises the Columbia City Council on ways to eliminate the abuse of alcohol and other controlled substances are taking a wait-and-see approach to two marijuana propositions passed this month by Columbia voters. "I think the attitude we’re taking is let’s see if that becomes a problem," said Dan Vinson, chairman of the Columbia Substance Abuse Advisory Commission.
One of the new city ordinances permits seriously ill people to possess as much as 1¼ ounces of marijuana on a physician’s recommendation. The other requires Columbia police to refer any marijuana possession case involving the same quantity of marijuana to Columbia Municipal Court rather than state court. Vinson, a physician, said commission members have decided not to take a position on the ordinances. "The divergence of opinion among members of the commission has been such that I think most of us see it unlikely that we will come to a consensus," he said, "and really there isn’t much for an advisory commission to suggest in the way of new laws."Vinson said that as a doctor, he would never prescribe marijuana. "I’m certainly not in favor of encouraging people to use marijuana," he said. "On the other hand, tobacco and alcohol have caused a lot more problems." Commissioners Kim Dude and Mitch Moore exemplify the differences of opinion within the commission. Dude, assistant director of the Wellness Resource Center at the University of Missouri-Columbia, was surprised the ordinances passed. "I just can’t believe the community thought it was a good idea," she said, adding that she believes the ordinances will lead to more marijuana use. Moore, a lawyer and Libertarian, called current federal marijuana laws Draconian and wasn’t surprised that the ordinances passed. He said studies, including one done by the National Science Academy, have shown that decriminalizing marijuana doesn’t increase the use of marijuana. Commissioner Ann Landis, director of secondary guidance for Columbia Public Schools, also said she believes previous punishment was harsh. "As a school counselor, I feel protective of kids, and I don’t want a mistake like that to cause them to not get financial aid for college," she said. "In that respect, I think the ordinances are going to help." Commissioner David Sohl, a compliance specialist for MU’s Institutional Review Board, said he believes marijuana use is a health issue but said its too early to tell whether the ordinances will lead to policy recommendations from the commission. The commission has other priorities, such as alcohol abuse prevention and working with groups to ban smoking in the city’s bars and restaurants. "Marijuana use is not anywhere close to the top of our agenda," Vinson said. "It’s kind of fun to talk about, and it’s fun to argue about, but I don’t know that I’ve ever seen anybody killed by a driver who’s been under the influence of marijuana."Note: Members take wait-and-see approach.Source: Columbia Daily Tribune (MO)Author: Arcenia Harmon of the Tribune’s Staff Published: Thursday, November 11, 2004Copyright: 2004 Columbia Daily TribuneContact: editor tribmail.comWebsite: http://www.columbiatribune.com/Related Articles & Web Site:Missouri NORMLhttp://www.gstlnorml.org/MU Differs on Pot Law http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread19806.shtmlChief Says Pot Law Tough To Interprethttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread19798.shtmlOfficials Mull Effect of New Pot Law http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread19779.shtml

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Comment #48 posted by FoM on November 13, 2004 at 08:44:15 PT
JoeCitizen
Thank you. I was raised not to ever talk about politics and maybe that's where my ideas come from. Politics and religion were off topic in my home. I asked why and my parents told me because politics divide people and so does religion so it's best not to talk about them. Just vote if you want to and worship if you want to but keep it to yourself.
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Comment #47 posted by JoeCitizen on November 13, 2004 at 08:31:21 PT
Not JR, but I'll answer
Neither of the 2 big parties cares a whit about any third party philosophy, unless it can gain or cost them votes. Then they care.As a Libertarian I could spend the rest of my life working within the Democratic or Republican parties, and never move their ideology an inch from where it is.But all it takes is one election where you cost them a lot of votes, and then they will either attempt to destroy you, or absorb and co-opt your ideas. The latter is what we are hoping for, at the very least.This is what happened in the 1920's with the Progressive party. They challenged the Democrats, and forced the Democratic Party to take on many of the ideas and positions of the Progressives. The Progressive party no longer exists, but the Democrats still have a lot of their ideas in the platform.JC
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Comment #46 posted by FoM on November 12, 2004 at 11:54:26 PT

JR a Question
Why don't third party people try to work closer with established Parties? If I was a low man on a totem pole I would try to help the big organization in hopes that they might absorb my philosophy.
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Comment #45 posted by JR Bob Dobbs on November 12, 2004 at 11:46:30 PT

Why I voted third-party
First of all, I live in a non-swing state. No matter who I votes for, Illinois was going to give its electoral votes to Kerry. If I lived in a swing state, I'd have to think about the major parties, but since I don't... I'd like to see a third party allowed in the debates. Any third party, doesn't matter to me. To do this, they need to have 5% of the popular vote. None of them have so far - Nader came closest in 2000 with 2.5%. So I'll vote for whichever third party stands the best chance of hitting 5%. Doesn't matter what they stand for - they're not going to win the Presidency, but they do need to win that 5% so that we can have debates with more than just corporate-controlled Tweedledum and Tweedledee. If the third party in question stood a chance of winning, again, I'd have to look closer at the issues and candidates, but as it stands right now, voting between the big two (given the non-swing statehood) seemed like more of a wasted vote than voting for a third-party candidate and giving them the chance to be heard. 
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Comment #44 posted by FoM on November 12, 2004 at 11:13:51 PT

JoeCitizen
Thank you. I understand what you're saying but I'm not any party. I only voted this year because I really hoped Bush would be defeated. I won't vote again. I'll be like the people around where I live. They don't think about politics. I think issues are more important then politics or ideology. No party is perfect because they are made up of people with different value structures. 
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Comment #43 posted by JoeCitizen on November 12, 2004 at 11:03:16 PT

FOM, about Libertarians
I understand where you (and other people I've talked to) are coming from when you say you don't like Libertarians. I am a pretty strong believer in Libertarian ideology/philosophy, and even I have trouble with some of our spokespeople (especially the self-appointed and oh-so-self-righteous types.)For me it all boils down to your basic philosophy about people. Do you trust them or not?Democrats don't trust people. They think we're all selfish, shortsighted, bigots. We would never give to a charity or help out our communities unless forced to do so by benevolent bureaucrats who oh-so-wisely take our taxes and put them to good use. We would never have the foresight to save for our own retirement, so they have to help us little morons by putting our money into social security. And of course, no one would ever hire someone of a different race, creed, or sexual orientation (no matter how talented or suited for the job they were) unless a government agency like EEOC were to threaten them.Republican don't trust people. They think we're all immoral hedonists, intent on having sex with anyone and everything possible, having abortions as often as any woman can and learning to perform them on others for fun and profit, snorting/shooting/smoking/swallowing any and every kind of intoxicating drug, and looking to consort with terrorists whenever and wherever possible. Were it not for a few "moral" Republicans holding the line in our country, they think it would look like the late days of the Roman Empire.Libertarians trust people. They think most people make good choices for themselves and their families. Most of us do well enough that we have at least a little extra time and money to help out our friends, our neighbors, the communities in which we live. We can reach out to the few of our neighbors who have had some bad luck, or suffered from a bad choice. We can show them TRUE charity and love, not the cold, indifferent care of a government welfare check. A check can help pay for food or clothes, but it can't make you feel useful, loved, and integrated into a group.I know you worry about the least fortunate among us, FOM. You have commented on Neil Young's son Ben, who has severe physical handicaps, and asked who would help people who are like him.  And my answer is... you and me, FOM. You and me will take care of them. I'd be happy to send money either directly to Neil, or more likely to a group that specializes in Cerebral Palsy and related disorders.  Rather than me sending that same money to Washington DC, where a lot of it just gets wasted by grinding bureaucracy, a lot more gets peeled off for things like corporate welfare, the drug war, and other things that I didn't want and that won't help Ben, and then finally a little bit of it gets into a fund that might help Neil and Ben, but which they then have to beg and fill out forms and jump through many hoops to get any of it.Libertarians would end the drug war instantly, and forever abolish the DEA, NIDA, HHS, and all the other alphabet agencies who would like to smash down your front door and put a prison number on your chest. They don't believe in military adventures in foreign lands, they would bring our troops home, not just from Iraq but from all those bases in Europe. So our troops can defend THIS nation as the constitution states they should. Libertarians do NOT promise to end all bigotry and human evils with a stroke of the legislative pen. You can't legislate morality, and you shouldn't try. The welfare state has made many of us into bad neighbors and poor citizens. When you try to get someone to donate time or money to a good cause (I have!), and they just shrug and say "That's what I pay taxes for", that's a hidden cost of the welfare state. People don't feel responsible for themselves or their neighbors. "The gubmint's sposeda fixdat." becomes our new mantra.I know you're not a big reader, FOM, but Harry Browne's "Why Government Doesn't Work" or "The Great Libertarian Offer" are two books that are good starting places to understand Libertarian philosophy.You don't have to love Libertarians, but do know that they are on your side in this issue. And no other party can truly say that.JC
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Comment #42 posted by FoM on November 12, 2004 at 09:58:48 PT

A Related Article I Think
Clash of Civilizations has Landed in HollandBy Jeremy BeecherPublished: Friday, November 12, 2004 Media Credit: Johanna Tran ~ Daily Trojan http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper679/stills/2a11fzy3.jpg 
Those who want proof the United States' efforts in Iraq have plunged the world into danger need only look at the usual suspects: Iran, Israel, Syria. And the Netherlands?Theo Van Gogh, a Dutch filmmaker whose most recent film documented violence against women in Muslim societies, was shot and stabbed to death in Amsterdam last week. Van Gogh's recent film, "Submission," featured four Dutch Muslim women discussing the abuse they suffered in their families and marriages, and pictured the women wearing see-through robes, their skin adorned with passages from the Koran.Van Gogh gave his life for the film.Though the killer was arrested after a brief chase, the Moroccan suspect's arrest has triggered a frenzy of debate and even violence in a country more commonly known for Heineken and marijuana bars.The challenges one of the world's most tolerant society faces, in dealing with a group that is anything but, foreshadows the problems many other countries will soon face. Avoiding the appearance of all-out war can be trying.This week, an Islamic elementary school in the southern Netherlands was set ablaze in seeming retribution for the murder. Three Protestant churches were then burned to the ground.Several mosques and Muslim schools were attacked in a third round of retribution. According to CNN Thursday morning, a total of 18 religiously-linked sites have been attacked since the filmmakers murder. It's a problem that had been brewing for years but only exploded following the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States. Still, the root of the violence is hardly as one-sided as it may first appear, largely because American action in Iraq and societal intolerance are often what aggravate these European extremist communities in the first place. Alienation breeds destitution, and destitution makes the most stable among us extreme.This alienation of Dutch Muslims might have begun when Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Dutch parliamentarian, publicly called the Prophet Muhammad a "pervert" and a "tyrant." And despite Van Gogh's noble efforts to expose misogyny and other societal ills, his common reference to Muslims with an epithet relating to bestiality with goats, in some of the country's largest newspapers and radio programs, couldn't have been less tactful.It's impossible to say, of course, which came first, the Muslim intolerance toward free speech or Western abuse of it. But the two clearly feed off each other to create an unsustainable circle of vicious discourse and ultimately violence.Case in point: Farid Zaari, spokesman for the mosque which Van Gogh's killer attended, told the New York Times, "All of us want to begin a dialogue now, but the language of the political right is too extreme." A Dutch terrorism expert only replied, "Islam is the most hated word in the country at this point."The battle playing out in the Netherlands illustrates the challenges any free society faces in controlling homegrown, extremist Islam, the tiny fraction of Muslims who would rather destroy the West than integrate into it. The good news is that, compared to the Netherlands, America seems to have remained relatively tolerant to its Muslim population.But if the world's most tolerant society could so easily slip into this cycle of name-calling and violence, we must worry that America might do the same. The confounding nature of the problem, and, at the issue's core, the changing face of our society as a whole, from white to multi-colored, Christian to every religion imaginable, are all unwelcome developments for small segments of our societies. But using the Dutch as a model for how not to act toward an increasingly worried minority, we just might proceed along a safer, happier path while pursuing a strong "War on Terror."Still, Amsterdam worshippers shouldn't get too excited yet. Legalizing marijuana won't help us.-Jeremy Beecher's column "Uncommon Sense" runs Fridays. To comment on this column, e-mail dtrojan usc.edu or call (213) 740-5665. Copyright: 2004 Daily Trojanhttp://www.dailytrojan.com/news/2004/11/12/Opinions/Clash.Of.Civilizations.Has.Landed.In.Holland-802731.shtml
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Comment #41 posted by FoM on November 12, 2004 at 09:20:26 PT

I'm Lost
I know one thing I will always respect those who respect me. I've always been that way. It doesn't matter how a person believes or where they come from etc. I will listen to anyone who will listen to me. I believe that we all have met and learned from people from way far away from where we live. It's like people here respect this forum but now and then some want to cause trouble but not be a help to making this site a stable well received web site. I don't know why that is but it happens. Not as much now because they've stopped mostly and I really appreciate it.
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Comment #40 posted by kaptinemo on November 12, 2004 at 09:06:39 PT:

Yer Honor, I rest my case
Sam Adams has said it in fewer words than this wordy old b*****d could. Exactly right. 
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Comment #39 posted by Sam Adams on November 12, 2004 at 09:01:42 PT

Kapt
Foreigners? Are you kidding? How many Americans have talked to someone from outside their own STATE? how many have even travelled beyond a few hours from their house?
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Comment #38 posted by kaptinemo on November 12, 2004 at 08:53:38 PT:

FoM, it's a matter of perspective
I'm no one's idea of a world traveler, but I've been to a few places, some not very nice. But it's given me a sense of perspective. And that has granted me the chance to see some things that many haven't - and learn of how others think.But how many Americans have actually spoken at length with foreigners? And I certainly don't mean to give the ones working here your food order at Mickey D's, or mow your lawn or wash your car. I mean *talk* with them? Bloody few.It's easy to fear and hate what you don't understand. We all know that here; we're targets of that fear and hate every day. So most of us are generally more tolerant of the strange and sometimes outright weird-seeming. Our occasional anger is venting, not at the unknown, but the all too familiar issues of injustice and inequality, corruption and hypocrisy.But most Americans haven't had that kind of exposure. It doesn't completely excuse the behavior many engage in, but it is understandable. Like President Kennedy said so long ago: we share the same biology. We all have the same salinity of sea water in our blood, which is as red as any other human's. Most differences are cultural, not based in physicality. Having shared the communion of the green with people from all over the world in places like Amsterdam and 'Vansterdam', I know the truth of this. It is those who like to scare themselves into believing otherwise who try to impose their will upon a world that doesn't need it. It's a fear that we had better outgrow, and quick. No place is more than 24 hours from a pandemic plague or thirty minutes away from a sub-orbitally lobbed missile. This is one very small planet we ride on. If we don't learn to get along on it, we won't be able to survive on the remaining chunks of it.
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Comment #37 posted by siege on November 12, 2004 at 08:44:42 PT

mis one 
They say it takes to long to count the write INS VOTES !!
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Comment #36 posted by siege on November 12, 2004 at 08:37:13 PT

ballots
What is bad is the way they setup the ballots
back in the 1960's reb. dem. or ind, or one of the 3rd partys there should be only one ballot like it had been before they change it they say it is better this way , ya so they can get red of votes they don't like. one ballot for every one not 5 or 6 on the 3rd party ballot I have to write in who i vote for. this makes it bad for some people if they can not spell or you can not read there hand writing there vote don't count!! 
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Comment #35 posted by FoM on November 12, 2004 at 08:17:56 PT

Hope
That was very good. When the Vote For Change Tour was on TV in one spot they interviewed Dave Matthews on his bus. He talked about how he was talking to Neil Young and they shared how hard it was to take a stand because both of their music is geared to bringing people together not dividing but they both felt they had to this year. Dave Matthews said this and it was very profound to me. He said there are no THEMS and US. This is one earth with all the people sharing it. There is only all of US.
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Comment #34 posted by Hope on November 12, 2004 at 08:09:34 PT

Dylan's "Masters of War"
This old Dylan song is in the news today. Some teens were going to read it during a talent show. The Secret Service came to investigate.http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/masters.htmlCome you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masksYou that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets flyLike Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drainYou fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mudYou've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veinsHow much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you doLet me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soulAnd I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead
 
 Copyright © 1963; renewed 1991 Special Rider Music Investigation story: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_3323602,00.html

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Comment #33 posted by FoM on November 12, 2004 at 07:52:12 PT

Hope
That was a good article from Alternet. 
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Comment #32 posted by FoM on November 12, 2004 at 07:50:37 PT

dr slider 
Thank you. You said all who fight are lost. I sure agree.
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Comment #31 posted by FoM on November 12, 2004 at 07:47:20 PT

BGreen
Thanks for dropping in. I was thinking about you and wondering how it was going. It sounds like you are having a great time. Enjoy and stay safe!
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Comment #30 posted by FoM on November 12, 2004 at 07:44:27 PT

kaptinemo 
I guess it's ok to say this. I have been so turned off by people who are Libertarians that I won't even consider them. They need better public relations so people like me that don't like having politics pushed down their throat aren't totally turned off. They don't have answers in areas that matter to me either. They are very much like republicans and I would be more like a democrat if I was into things like that. 
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Comment #29 posted by Hope on November 12, 2004 at 07:39:23 PT

BGreen! Comment 20
Glad to know you arrived safely! "Amsterdam...Amsterdam...Amsterdam". :-)Have a wonderful time and get home safely!
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Comment #28 posted by Hope on November 12, 2004 at 07:26:19 PT

Michael Ventura from "Dancing in the Dark"
"Don't demonize people who disagree with you. That's how Bush and Cheney behave. Behavior is more important than belief. What does belief matter, if your behavior apes your enemy's? Behavior shapes reality. Belief merely justifies reality. Demonization creates demons. Your enemies are as human as you are. If you treat them that way, the outcome may surprise you."http://alternet.org/election04/20469/

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Comment #27 posted by Hope on November 12, 2004 at 07:17:46 PT

Thank you, GCW for that article...Tom Hayden?
"Jesus was a dissident on the fringes of the Empire of his day. As Father Gregory Boyle says, "Jesus stood with everybody who was nobody. He made a beeline [always] to stand with those on the margins, those whose dignity had been denied, the poor and excluded, the easily despised, the demonized, and those whose burdens were more than they could bear. And they killed him for it." Father Luis Barrios agrees, saying that the historical Jesus was ignored by the authorities until "he went downtown"."
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Comment #26 posted by kaptinemo on November 12, 2004 at 06:31:44 PT:

I need to make a correction
I stand corrected; I was wrong.There were three national party leaders, Badnarik of the Libbers, Cobb of the Greens, and *one* Dem who *did* have the stones and brains. They had the vision to speak to our concerns as they spoke to the concerns of all the needlessly, spitefully marginalized of this country. But of all of them, the one who had the most to lose from voicing his convictions and his labors at implementing them was Mr. Kucinich. And for having that bravery and vision, his supporters never wavered. That he didn't receive the nomination for Prez is just more proof of how craven the Dem political apparatus has become. As usual, the best man *didn't* win.Dennis, this old ex-grunt salutes you; you're a vastly better man than the three-piece-suited swine the party machinery always seem to pick.
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Comment #25 posted by afterburner on November 12, 2004 at 05:44:13 PT

Rambling Quotes
"Not all medications are for everyone. Ask your doctor if [cannabis] is right for you." --alteration of viagra ad. Push, push, push in the bush, people. "The squeaky wheel gets the grease."
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Comment #24 posted by The GCW on November 12, 2004 at 05:25:14 PT

kaptinemo, === We are the winning bandwagon.
US TX: Edu Arlington: Making Sense Of Weed"There isn't any reason people shouldn't have the knowledge that one of the most effective medications is a weed," "It was medicine before H. W. Bush; how is it not medicine now?" "You thought the war in Iraq was expensive? That's (caging cannabis users) expensive," ...http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04/n1605/a02.html?397
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Comment #23 posted by kaptinemo on November 12, 2004 at 05:03:52 PT:

Partly related: Localized progressive strategies
Many of us here have argued - in some cases, for years - that the cannabist bloc of voters has remained a gold mine waiting to be tapped by the first pol that has both the stones and the brains to address the latent injustices of drug prohibition.Had Mr. Kerry done so, he'd be heading for the White House now, instead of sauntering back to the Senate. Because, contrary to all the sneering criticisms of our detractors, of all the electorate, we have the most motivation for activism of many groups. (Having your life ruined for the most specious of reasons tends to create that motivation.) We stood ready to lend our support. That it was rejected out of fear of association with 'dopers' does not speak well of those who were too timid to risk so little and gain so much. Now, they have been pushed even further away from their goals, and have engaged in some very vicious back-biting and finger pointing as to why they lost. While pointedly not mentioning their one of their greatest strategic mistakes - not taking us up on our offer.The progressive elements have been licking their wounds, and have begun to come up with a new strategy...that is, new for *them*. Namely, take the local approach. Take a look at this: Leftnecks, Get Local
http://www.alternet.org/election04/20479/The thrust of the article is the seemingly sudden realization on the part of progressives that in order to win, they have to take the 'low road' of grassroots activism instead of big, top-down 'general staff' methods of organizing.Guess what? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING FOR YEARS! Jumping in the trenches and slugging it out, city by city, county by county, State by State, that's why we keep winning. We show our neighbors we are not drooling, furtive, amoral wretches with designs on their daughters or sons; we're just the same as they are, only our choice of medicine/intoxicant is different in form and function, that's all. Our strategy, slow as it is, wins us victory after victory. Yeah, I know; Alaska. But eventually we'll win there, too. The point of all this? Those who want to change the political landscape could use the advice and assistance of those WHO'VE DEMONSTRATED QUITE CLEARLY THAT WE HAVE HAD RECURRING SUCCESSES IN DOING PRECISELY THAT.The political 'coffee' has been brewing for some time, progressives; either wake up and smell it, extend a hand to us, and reap the rewards of dedicated activists working for you, our slide back down into your (partially self-created) fitful nightmare of NeoCons running this country into the ground. We've been stewing in the fascist cookpot they are preparing to throw you into for some time. If you want to avoid residing there, too, then lend us a hand. Otherwise, we'll see you in Hell...and we have first dibs on the benches; right of rank as being there the longest... 

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Comment #22 posted by afterburner on November 12, 2004 at 04:27:14 PT

Bud Green, Freedom Fighter (sans armed)
We haven't heard from you in a while. Have a great time in Haarlem!
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Comment #21 posted by afterburner on November 12, 2004 at 03:10:25 PT

Oh, Johnny Boy!
"This public health victory reaffirms the simple, inescapable fact that no family, no community, no state is better off with more [medicine] use." --John P. Walters, Director of National Drug Control PolicyHow does restricting patients from getting their medicine become a public *health* victory? Is this "the Big Lie" of Goebbels or just the newspeak of 1984? Nineteen Eighty-Four
http://www.fact-index.com/n/ni/nineteen_eighty_four.html
What Would Machiavelli Do? The Big Lie Lives On
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Comment #20 posted by BGreen on November 12, 2004 at 02:10:35 PT

Hello From Haarlem!
High! Wish you were here.I'm going to see Nol later today, but right now I'm just chilling.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #19 posted by dr slider on November 12, 2004 at 01:11:29 PT:

A rose by any oher name
The difference between a freedom fighter and an insurgent terrorist is the purview of the PR folks. The reality is that all who fight are lost.If that isn't what Jace said, I'm a monkey's twisted and blind, redheaded stepchild.
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Comment #18 posted by FoM on November 11, 2004 at 21:32:58 PT

Words from John Walters
White House Says Failure of Alaska Pot Law Big Public Health VictoryThursday, November 11, 2004 Commenting on the failure of the marijuana legalization initiative in Alaska, John P. Walters, Director of National Drug Control Policy, made the following statement: ''The continued failure of the drug legalization movement this year sends a strong message that Americans are not willing to allow a small group of politically active billionaires to undermine the progress our Nation has made in driving youth drug use down by 11 percent over the last two years.From National Drug Control Policy:WHITE HOUSE DRUG CZAR: FAILURE OF ALASKA'S MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION BALLOT INITIATIVE IS RESOUNDING PUBLIC HEALTH VICTORYCommenting on the failure of the marijuana legalization initiative in Alaska, John P. Walters, Director of National Drug Control Policy, made the following statement:''The continued failure of the drug legalization movement this year sends a strong message that Americans are not willing to allow a small group of politically active billionaires to undermine the progress our Nation has made in driving youth drug use down by 11 percent over the last two years. ''Undeterred by their losses in Arizona, Nevada, and Ohio during the 2002 election cycle, the drug legalization advocates spent millions of dollars on their 2004 efforts, financing an expensive campaign that targeted Alaska. But once again, voters refused to allow the megaphone of big bucks to silence the voice of common sense. ''This public health victory reaffirms the simple, inescapable fact that no family, no community, no state is better off with more drug use. Although there are some who are indifferent to the harms that drug use brings, their repeated attempts to make marijuana more available are no match for the truth.''The people of Alaska, as well as citizens throughout the Nation, can rest assured that we will continue to support their efforts to ensure that their children are healthy and that their communities are safe. We remain steadfast partners committed to building upon our shared success in reducing drug use in America.'' http://www.scienceblog.com/community/article4606.html
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Comment #17 posted by FoM on November 11, 2004 at 21:24:33 PT

Some Pictures from The Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/postphotos/asection/1.htm
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Comment #16 posted by FoM on November 11, 2004 at 21:13:55 PT

Dankhank 
Thank you. I wish my wish was possible too. I just feel so bad about this war. I watched a program the other night on the Discovery Times Channel and it was about boys from Arkansas going to Iraq. They came from such poor families. It's almost like the armed service is the only way they think they can make anything of themselves. No jobs, no money, no future and like Michael Moore said in his movie, it is the poor that always go to war to fight for our freedom. I respect these young men and hope they don't die. Steve Earles's Rich Man's War: http://www.artemisrecords.com/media/SteveEarle-RichMansWar.ram
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Comment #15 posted by Dankhank on November 11, 2004 at 21:03:40 PT

Not a part of our lives ...
Killing has always been a part of our lives. Don't forget we have a low-grade war being fought in South America, mostly they are dying, not many of ours, yet.There's always a war or six going on at any time, luckily Americans escape most of the world's tragedy while causing quite a bit of it.The Midde East claims the occasional American Jew these days. That's enough for now.FoM, I wish your wish was possible.
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Comment #14 posted by cloud7 on November 11, 2004 at 21:00:51 PT

Hero of the Day
Prime Minister Paul Martin tells the U.S. to shove it (in kinder words) when it comes to Canadian laws:http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=17f95636-d1c0-40e2-8093-a8ff8bf9cc2c""Canada makes its own laws," Prime Minister Paul Martin said Wednesday when asked about the issue."
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Comment #13 posted by FoM on November 11, 2004 at 20:57:49 PT

A Question
When they talk about the fighting in Iraq they call them Insurgents and I wasn't sure what that meant so I looked it up in at dictionary.com.Are those that are fighting against the US Insurgents or Freedom Fighters? Words are so difficult sometimes.insurgent  adj. Rising in revolt against established authority, especially a government. Rebelling against the leadership of a political party. ***freedom fightern. One engaged in armed rebellion or resistance against an oppressive government.
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Comment #12 posted by FoM on November 11, 2004 at 19:50:03 PT

The GCW
That was a good article. I switched to watching a movie called Saving Private Ryan and it reminds me of what our boys are going thru right now. Oh how I long for the days when killing wasn't a part of our lives.
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Comment #11 posted by The GCW on November 11, 2004 at 19:20:45 PT

This is right in there!
4. Taking back Jesus from the new Roman Empire. Instead of "Jesus Saves," we need to save Jesus. This is no time for the Democrats to begin pandering to any on the Christian Right who have turned Jesus into a symbol for a vast and potentially illegal political network of tax-exempt, church-based, right-wing partisan activism.Let’s look at the numbers. White evangelical born-again Christians, who were 23 percent of the total vote, gave Bush a 78 percent margin, and the very secular John Kerry 21 percent. White Catholics (like Kerry) provided 47 percent support. On the other hand, "white Jews" voted 75 percent for Kerry, voters who attend church "a few times a year" gave him 54 percent, and those who never attend religious services produced a 62 percent Kerry majority. People of color were Kerry’s strongest religious base.In the wake of the election, many Democrats no doubt will begin repositioning themselves as born-agains. Instead they should articulate moral and spiritual values rather than misreading the separation of church and state to mean that such concerns are constitutionally out-of-bounds. They should also attack the transformation of institutional churches into de facto partisan agencies, and everyone, Christian or not, should battle to take back Jesus from Empire.Jesus was a dissident on the fringes of the Empire of his day. As Father Gregory Boyle says, "Jesus stood with everybody who was nobody. He made a beeline [always] to stand with those on the margins, those whose dignity had been denied, the poor and excluded, the easily despised, the demonized, and those whose burdens were more than they could bear. And they killed him for it." Father Luis Barrios agrees, saying that the historical Jesus was ignored by the authorities until "he went downtown" to challenge the elite. As the Christian radical Cornel West writes in "Democracy Matters," "prophetic Christianity" is being eclipsed by "Constantian Christianity"; that is, the very Empire that crucified Jesus later transformed him into the symbol of an expansionary state religion. This is what the Machiavellians like Rove and the neo-conservative non-believers have done through the Bush presidency: build the beginnings of a theocratic state just beneath the surface of the Republican Party, a shadow network of believers nesting in every crevice of bureaucracy available.It is no accident that the young men and women killing, dying, being maimed and disoriented in Iraq come disproportionately from God-fearing families in small towns, or that the Pentagon hierarchy still supports a general who promotes the superiority of "our God" over the Muslims. For some conservative Christians, neither the Crusades nor the Confederacy are over. They continue in whispers, in code, covertly, awaiting the moment when the Good News can be proclaimed again, from Washington to Babylon. For these people, the second term of Bush is the Second Coming.The only way to counter this trend toward state religion is by engaging the Christian community, especially the conservative evangelicals, in a moral and theological dispute about Jesus. Talk of the Constitution and Bill of Rights is not enough to break their paradigm. Pronouncements by liberal religious bureaucracies will not be taken seriously. The "people of faith" networks organized late in the presidential campaign are just the beginning of a populist spirituality as an alternative to the corporate-Republican cooptation of the faithful.http://www.boulderweekly.com/coverstory.htmlThere's more...
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Comment #10 posted by FoM on November 11, 2004 at 18:49:19 PT

mayan and siege
I just want you to know that I care about the election results but Kerry lost by too many votes to change anything. I turned off the news and turned on a nature program to try to not be bombarded with how bad things are getting on the tv news. I'm afraid it's only just begun. The idea that we can defeat people fighting for their country seems so strange to me. No matter how many troops we have more freedom fighters will rise up to take the ones place that we kill. There are a lot of people from Iraq compared to the amount of troops we have on the ground. The only thing going for us as Neil Young says. We've got a kinder gentler machine gun hand. Losing troops every day because we haven't got a plan.This is Bush's war and he is the one that history will hold accountable. I'm glad Kerry didn't inherit this mess or he would have been blamed for something he didn't start. I hope recounts happen and people follow up on it all but for me I want Bush to pay for this one. I'm very angry. I get very quiet when I'm angry.
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Comment #9 posted by mayan on November 11, 2004 at 18:19:55 PT

siege...
I can't imagine them haveing a "re-vote" but maybe you're right. If they just do a re-count the results will likely come up very different as some places had more votes than voters! I don't know how they could do a re-count if the black-boxes were used as there is no paper trail and hence, no way to verify the results. That is one of the reasons the fascists prefer them.http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
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Comment #8 posted by siege on November 11, 2004 at 18:16:16 PT

mayan
Tom B sayed it and I can't find it.
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Comment #7 posted by mayan on November 11, 2004 at 18:11:49 PT

siege
I can't find anything confirming that a recount is certain but here is an article which makes one seem very likely...Good News From Bev Harris:
http://www.opednews.com/harris_111104_good_news.htm
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Comment #6 posted by mayan on November 11, 2004 at 18:08:35 PT

As A Doctor...
Vinson said that as a doctor, he would never prescribe marijuana. "I’m certainly not in favor of encouraging people to use marijuana," he said. "On the other hand, tobacco and alcohol have caused a lot more problems." Alcohol and tobacco have caused WAY more problems! So have pharmaceuticals that I imagine Dr. Vinson has prescribed.The way out is the way in...CNN covers 9/11 Truth Movement, own Poll: 90% believe in Cover-up:
http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1013Jimmy Walter and "Painful Questions" hit NY POST, AP + NY TIMES:
http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=999WORLD TRADE CENTER RESCUE HERO SUES 
BUSH AND OTHERS UNDER RICO STATUTE, 
ALLEGES WILLFUL COMPLICITY IN ATTACKS 
THAT KILLED 3,000:
http://www.911forthetruth.com/9/11 Truth LA:
http://www.911truthla.us/

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Comment #5 posted by FoM on November 11, 2004 at 17:50:10 PT

The GCW
A question. What do you mean when you say plant and soil sciences professor? We need research to find strains that will benefit sick people and some strains will work better then another is how I think about it. I know a person that is very sick (MS) and had to try a couple of different types one night to stop the nausea. We need to know what works best for different illnesses and research will give us those answers I believe.
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Comment #4 posted by siege on November 11, 2004 at 17:28:48 PT

ASA and HHS
There is alot in the works for all of us on this,(( ASA and HHS )) can't find out any thing here, wife's uncle is being hard headed about this one says he don't know anything i don't buy it. as he is a senator. by the way he acks on the phone some thing is going on that he don't want to talk about i can't read him on this one. good or bad 
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Comment #3 posted by The GCW on November 11, 2004 at 17:11:12 PT

Plant?
plant and soil sciences professor ???Why cannabis is a weapon of mass destruction and should only be observed by incarceration and extermination professors.
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Comment #2 posted by FoM on November 11, 2004 at 16:20:30 PT

siege
We were watching ABC News so we missed it. I'm over being upset that Kerry didn't win. He will work hard as a Senator and maybe even get medical marijuana issues looked at. I still have hope.****Senators Back UM Medical MarijuanaOctober 28, 2003 Both U.S. senators from Massachusetts, Edward M. Kennedy and John Kerry, have written a letter to the federal Drug Enforcement Administration urging approval of an application by the University of Massachusetts to grow high-quality marijuana for medicinal research. Backers of the proposal by plant and soil sciences professor Lyle Craker say support from Kennedy and Kerry, along with the recent refusal by the Supreme Court to consider penalizing doctors for recommending medicinal marijuana, put UMass in a much better position to win DEA approval than previously. UMass would be only the second legal grower of marijuana for research purposes. The University of Mississippi has supplied the National Institute on Drug Abuse with marijuana for 30 years.In their Oct. 20 letter addressed to DEA administrator Karen Tandy, Kennedy and Kerry wrote, ''We believe that the National Institute on Drug Abuse facility at the University of Mississippi has an unjustifiable monopoly on the production of marijuana for legitimate medical and research purposes in the United States.''According to Kennedy and Kerry, the current lack of competition ''may well result in the production of lower-quality research-grade marijuana, which in turn jeopardizes important research into the therapeutic effects of marijuana for patients undergoing chemotherapy or suffering from AIDS, glaucoma, or other diseases.''Kerry and Kennedy also said in their letter that UMass is ''one of the nation's most distinguished research universities, and it is highly qualified to manufacture marijuana for legitimate medical and research purposes with effective controls against diversion.''Complete Article: http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread17685.shtml
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Comment #1 posted by siege on November 11, 2004 at 15:58:11 PT

   vote
On the News the DOJ just sayed that Ohio to vote again for president, said it is all wrong. MSNBC
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