cannabisnews.com: Dutch Cafe Ban Puts British Noses Out Of Joint Dutch Cafe Ban Puts British Noses Out Of Joint Posted by CN Staff on October 27, 2003 at 15:06:18 PT By Anthony Browne Source: Times UK Thousands of Britons who flock to the cannabis cafes of Amsterdam each year may be left stone cold by Dutch government plans to end "drug tourism". The Netherlands' conservative Government has just unveiled a scheme to restrict access to the country's drug-selling coffee shops to Dutch residents only. Coffee shops would be restricted to members, with membership permits sold only to local people. The Dutch city is renowned as the drugs capital of Europe, having become the destination of choice for revellers looking for the high life. Hundreds of coffee shops openly offer menus for different types of resin and grass. However, the Government is keen to clean up the country's image and has been under pressure from its more puritanical neighbours, particularly France and Germany, whose citizens flock across the Dutch border to buy cannabis. "We are willing to do something about tourists and foreigners buying hashish in coffee shops. One option is having permits for customers, and then you don't give permits to foreigners," a spokesman for the Justice Ministry said. The announcement has dismayed Britain's normally laid-back cannabis-users. "We are devastated," Alan Buffry, of the Legalise Cannabis Alliance, said. "It's always been a refuge where you can smoke and relax without having to look over your shoulder. It was like a holiday from the police."The proposals have also triggered vehement protests from the Dutch coffee shops, which are fully licensed by local authorities and pay millions of pounds in tax. "It's totally ridiculous. The minister is stupid. If this system comes in, all the tourists will buy from criminals in the street," Arjan Roskam, of the Union of Cannabis Retailers, said. The plans, which are to be confirmed by Christmas, were put forward by Piet Hein Donner, the Justice Minister, during a visit to Germany, which has criticised the Netherlands for not doing enough in the war on drugs. The proposals are aimed specifically at curbing cross-border drug-trafficking. German dealers, for example, drive across the uncontrolled border, stock up at coffee shops and then return. About 60 per cent of sales at coffee shops near the German border are to Germans, while in Amsterdam in summer about 40 per cent of coffee-shop trade is with tourists. Local authorities are responsible for licensing coffee shops and it will be up to them to implement the scheme. The Association of Dutch Municipalities said that it would wait for the full publication of the plans before commenting. The authorities have already closed some of the less respectable coffee shops and restricted sales to 5 grams of cannabis to each customer at a time. Shops have to limit their stock to 500 grams. The conservative Government has said that it wants to halve the number of coffee shops, which have fallen from a peak of nearly 2,000 in 1997 to 782. This year, the coffee shops survived a proposed smoking ban in all restaurants and cafes, which would have wiped them out. The ban was dropped at the last minute. Phil Kilvington, editor of Britain's Weed World magazine, was philosophical. With Britain downgrading cannabis to a Class C drug, he said: "It's going to be easier to smoke here than go to Amsterdam. It's not even very high quality there -- you can get better quality here in the UK, and people are starting to realise that. Different smokes, different folks:Nordic countries: Possession and use of soft drugs is illegal.Britain: From January, marijuana, formerly Class B, will become a Class C drug. Possession carries a maximum term of two years, but most offenders will get off with a warning.France: Possession of soft drugs risks a heavy fine and a year in prison, but cannabis users are seldom prosecuted.Germany: Cannabis use is illegal, but those possessing small quantities are seldom prosecuted.Greece: Users can face prison, but enforcement is lax.Portugal: Cannabis is illegal, but those possessing small amounts are no longer jailed but are instead given mandatory counselling, and sometimes community service or a small fine.Switzerland: Cannabis remains illegal, but probably not for long. A government attempt to decriminalise it narrowly failed, but police still turn a blind eye to those smoking it in public.Croatia: Prosecution for possession for personal use has ended, but selling it is punishable by up to 15 years in jail.Italy: A 1993 referendum decriminalised possession of a "minimum daily dose" of marijuana.Belgium: Possession of cannabis was decriminalised in 2002.Spain: Possession of marijuana for personal use carries no sanction.The Netherlands: Legislation dating back to 1976 decriminalised cannabis. Consumption and sale of the drug is allowed in coffee shops, with annual sales about UKP 1.8 billion.Note: After Years Of Tolerance, Foreigners Are To Be Excluded From Amsterdam's Cannabis Shops.Complete Title: Dutch Drug Cafe Ban Puts British Noses Out Of JointSource: Times, The (UK)Author: Anthony BrownePublished: October 25, 2003Copyright: 2003 Times Newspapers LtdContact: letters thetimes.co.ukWebsite: http://www.the-times.co.uk/Related Articles & Web Site:Legalise Cannabis Alliance http://www.lca-uk.org/Joint Operation - Guardian Unlimitedhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread17665.shtmlGerman & Dutch Ministers Plan Drug Offensivehttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread17659.shtmlTourist-Free Coffee Shops Rejected http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread17656.shtml Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help Comment #14 posted by rchandar on November 01, 2003 at 18:38:16 PT: vitaminT yeah--vitaminT, the problem is disgusting. these days, people treat the concept of "drugs" as if it were worse than killing or raping someone. the War on Drugs is basically a Catholic orthodoxy, where people who oppose the propaganda are suspect and treated as dangerous threats. People just don't get it; they think we are all murderers and evil people. They say "how can he say this?" as if it's inconceivable that someone would favor legalization. It's sad. they teach us in school that America is a "free" country, that we have "rights" and that there is "justice for all." what a fantastic hoax that we are force-fed. they just don't get it; freedom cannot exist without dissent, justice cannot exist without reproval of cruelty and hatred, and democracy cannot exist without the presence of opponent points of views. but americans--indeed, westerners in general--act like marijuana advocacy is the great heresy along the lines of the protestant heresy of the 16th century. people today are fanatically ignorant, hopelessly brainwashed, and carefully unwise to the blind adherence to propagandism that informs our "perspective" on this issue.well, got to drink another beer. man, it's depressing, the way our politicians fail to ever raise their guts to solve an issue that's putting hundreds of thousands of young men with families and jobs in jail. it sickens and disgusts me. but that's alright; modern rhetoric will create just the smokescreen that will anesthetize people into thinking they've got something really, really good with prohibition."a pipe of kif before breakfast gives a man the strength of a hundred camels in the courtyard." Paul Bowles, 1960ps hmm, paul bowles; 1910-1999. "an ounce a day kept the doctor away!" [ Post Comment ] Comment #13 posted by rchandar on October 31, 2003 at 20:42:45 PT: vitaminT's comment vitaminT--actually, i agree with you one hundred percent; i was only responding to another post at williewortel in may when proposed changes were threatened.the conservative plurality in parliament is mostly an extension of american conservatism: notice in the 90s when Clinton was president, most of Europe's governments followed suit. the big reason the legalization vote went wrong in Switzerland last month was because politicians were afraid of being "soft on crime" in the wake of projected conservative gains.not living in the netherlands, and not knowing very much dutch, i can't really gauge how serious the threat of the proposed changes are. they say the plans would be formalized by christmas; however, virtually all the other parties in parliament are probably against it, so i doubt it will pass in the cabinet. but, remember: holland has plenty of anti-drug types and they don't always approve of what you're doing. it's not a "miracle" country, just a relatively enlightened one that faces off against international drug war pressure every so often. i've been there many times and have been slapped, so to speak, with many people who didn't like what i was doing. there's a protest link on williewortel.org. go to it and send a letter of protest to minister donner. in the meantime, anyone who wants to take up this issue from abroad should try to contact CDA's coalition partners, D66 and VVD, and urge them to oppose the idea. i think they do, but living in the US i'm in no position to really tell you what they'll do. --rchandar [ Post Comment ] Comment #12 posted by FoM on October 28, 2003 at 18:53:27 PT News Brief: MPs To Debate Cannabis Downgrading October 29, 2003 Home Secretary David Blunkett was expected to face stiff criticism from the Opposition over his plans to downgrade cannabis.MPs were due to debate the Home Office's plans to move dope from Class B to Class C - where it will be ranked alongside bodybuilding steroids and some anti-depressants.Possession of cannabis will no longer be an arrestable offence in most cases, although police will retain the power to arrest users in certain aggravated situations - such as when the drug is smoked outside schools.Shadow home secretary Oliver Letwin was due to outline his objections to the plans this morning, ahead of the Commons debate.The Conservatives described the cannabis proposals as "liberalisation", making the drug "semi-legal", although the Government insists it will remain illegal.The Police Federation, which represents 130,000 frontline police officers, also opposes the move as "misguided and unnecessary".Chairman Jan Berry said reclassification sent a "confusing and conflicting message", particularly to young people.Mr Blunkett has said the change in the law is necessary to enable police to spend more time tackling Class A drugs like heroin and crack which cause the most harm and trigger far more crime.Both Houses of Parliament and the Privy Council will have to approve the statutory instrument downgrading cannabis.If the process goes ahead as planned, cannabis will be downgraded on January 29.Guidance from the Association of Chief Police Officers has said that police will have discretion on whether to arrest people caught smoking cannabis. About 80,000 adults a year are currently arrested and fined for possession. Under the new rules they would receive only a warning and have the drug confiscated. http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/ [ Post Comment ] Comment #11 posted by WolfgangWylde on October 28, 2003 at 14:23:02 PT Yes, the CDA will collapse... ...but not matter. As I've stated before, the central gov't has no power in this regard. Coffeeshops are licensed and regulated at the local level, and the local politicians are having none of this current BS. [ Post Comment ] Comment #10 posted by VitaminT on October 28, 2003 at 10:17:53 PT OK, but "DON'T tell them that you visit coffeeshops, that's not the way to keep them going!"What I don't understand is why, If I and my wife buy tickets on a Dutch Airline, pay for a hotel room in Amsterdam, buy rail passes, visit museums, restaurants, clubs and other tourist attractions AND enjoy the blessed herb. The Dutch Economy benefits to the tune of several thousand dollars - but somehow if I smoke pot I'm a second class tourist? Hell with that! I can smoke at home - and any country that tells me that my tourist dollars are not welcome can count on NOT having them! [ Post Comment ] Comment #9 posted by rchandar on October 28, 2003 at 09:46:46 PT: artticle hold on--this article definitely "jumps the gun," and by a lot. this is still only an idea, hiccupped up by donner in the wake of severe german pressure, & it has to pass through parliament, which is probably against it.CDA would have trouble doing it. if they did, a lot of dutch people would grumble for complete legalization, & the damage registered to the economy would throw CDA out of office. i don't think they can drop the "tolerance policy," because even if it is the EU, the EU still consists of sovereign, elected governments.look at williewortel.org. Nol van Schaik has posted a few articles and there is a "protest" link to add to that. if you protest, try to point out the obvious: that such a move would increase street crime, put people out of work, and ruin a very successful country for years. DON'T tell them that you visit coffeeshops, that's not the way to keep them going! --rchandar [ Post Comment ] Comment #8 posted by Dankhank on October 28, 2003 at 08:10:57 PT: respectable? The authorities have already closed some of the less respectable coffee shops ..................whaddya got to do to be less respectable in Holland?With many of the coffeeshops located in the red-light district of Amsterdam it beggars the imagination.An aside to the good R. Christie Thanks for the material, I am talking it up, researching and looking for a friendly barrister. You have to know it will be fun in OK. :-) Lots O Links [ Post Comment ] Comment #7 posted by kaptinemo on October 28, 2003 at 05:57:57 PT: This particular Dutch government won't last The presdent Dutch government is a leftover from the collapse of the last one, when Pim Fortuyn's List people, who are very anti-immigrant (bordering on xenophobic) crashed and burned in the first few months after the election.What's running the show now is a hodgepodge that is equally unstable. I don't give it more than 6 months before it too falls apart.There is a very, VERY strong sense of fairness amongst the Dutch people, and I imagine that the government will eventually bow to those sensibilities before too long...or face the eventual economic backlash of losing so many tourists. Because the ugly truth is, as i420 has pointed out, with a lousy climate most of the year, most people are NOT coming just to look at the bloody tulips. And certainly not during the winter months. The people are wonderful, but dreary doesn't begin to describe the feeling one gets if you are unlucky enough to be stuck in Holland during a winter season.Every coffeeshop I went to was PACKED every hour, even the tiniest shop had folks a*****e to bellybutton. And I heard FAR more languages than Dutch being spoken. All those lovely Euro coins just pouring into Dutch coffers...could come to a screeching, flaming halt. A cessation which the Dutch social welfare programs can't afford to have happen. Those programs have to be paid for somehow, and the Dutch are amongst the highest taxed people in Europe. Anything that ameliorates the tax burden becomes an economic necessity. Cut off the revenues from coffeeshops, and a taxpayer revolt could ensue.The present Dutch government is playing with economic fire if it tries to limit sales to "Dutch Only". In either case, it probably won't last long enough to do any real damage. [ Post Comment ] Comment #6 posted by Roger Christie on October 28, 2003 at 04:30:19 PT: 'Getting high' is a spiritual term. Aloha. Legalize - schmegalize. This debate is getting really old to me. Decades of advocacy + millions of dollars spent = almost zero progress in the US of A. Try this winning argument instead:'Getting high' is a spiritual term. Religious freedom allows for the belief, and the practice of religion, of 'getting high'. We like to 'get high' with cannabis sacrament, the premier herb of the planet."God is the most high". "God is on-high". Holy bible page one: Genesis 1:08 And God called the firmament Heaven.Genesis 1:11 And God said let the Earth bring forth grass and herb yielding seed Good made cannabis and the Bible confirms it. + We use it religiously to 'get high' with God. + We have religious freedom. + Jesus used cannabis in the holy anointing oil = A religious exemption for all cannabis enjoyersI recommend that cannabis people over 18 years old build themselves a 'religious defense to prosecution' to prevent marijuana charges ever coming against them. Someday we may get the big job done and legalize marijuana. In the meantime, I recommend that sincere cannabis enjoyers build their religious defense to prosecution in advance of any legal troubles. http://www.thc-minisrtry.net [ Post Comment ] Comment #5 posted by ekim on October 27, 2003 at 21:19:31 PT Ya Mayan like 18 hundred Million man thatsasome money. how much is this plant costing across the globe and not one dollar collected for taxes. [ Post Comment ] Comment #4 posted by CorvallisEric on October 27, 2003 at 20:04:25 PT Dealers The proposals are aimed specifically at curbing cross-border drug-trafficking. German dealers, for example, drive across the uncontrolled border, stock up at coffee shops and then return.If they "stock up" at the 5 legal coffee shops in Venlo, they'll have 25 grams at retail prices, won't make enough profit to pay for their time and gas. OK, maybe they drive all over NL and come 6 per car. Anyway, the likeliest conclusions:1 - They aren't really "dealers" but people buying for themselves and their friends. They can either stop using, sneak thru the Dutch system somehow, or buy on the black market.2 - They are dealers and buy illegally now. The new rules won't make any difference except to increase their market and profit margin. The black-market price in Germany should increase because law-abiding or fearful Germans won't buy in Holland. And then you'll have more illegal dealers and easier access to heroin, cocaine, meth.Just more petty, stupid, counterproductive BS. [ Post Comment ] Comment #3 posted by i420 on October 27, 2003 at 17:11:48 PT Bad idea minister.... You are only going to succeed in ruining tourism in the Netherlands with this new rule. Why else would anyone travel halfway around the world to the Netherlands. Everyone I know who has been there went for one reason only to smoke legally. If this new rule goes through this will hurt not only the cafes but also hotels, airlines, trains, restuarants, taxis, and all the other places tourist spend money. [ Post Comment ] Comment #2 posted by Sam Adams on October 27, 2003 at 16:36:30 PT Euro governments They're just as full of crap as the ones over here. Has anyone else been to Dachau? There's a big plaque there that says "Never again" in 6 different languages. I also heard lots about how the Dutch had a massive guilt complex for 40 years about not fighting harder to protect the Dutch Jews.Well, here we are in 2003 and the Dutch won't even offer haven to the Cannabis users. Think about the power in this vehicle of oppression - Prohibition. The national identity of the Dutch has been based on the concept of safe haven from persecution for all people for 400 years! Some of their politicians are willing to throw that away over a single plant. [ Post Comment ] Comment #1 posted by mayan on October 27, 2003 at 16:34:25 PT Tourism $$$ "Italy: A 1993 referendum decriminalised possession of a "minimum daily dose" of marijuana."I wonder what is considered a "minimum daily dose"? Sounds pretty cool, though! Regarding the article...the Netherlands stands to lose millions of tourist dollars if they ban tourists from the coffee shops. Their economy isn't doing so hot in the first place. I bet Johnny Pee has something to do with this!The way out is the way in...9/11 Commission May Subpoena White House Files: http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=2ZCDWI1VTGHEKCRBAEKSFEY?type=topNews&storyID=3690057Prominent Republican Challenges President Bush's Vow to "Uncover Every Detail" of 9/11 Attacks: http://www.misleader.org/daily_mislead/Read.asp?fn=df10272003.htmlWhite House Accused of Stalling 9/11 Probe: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031027/ap_on_go_pr_wh/sept_11_commission&cid=544&ncid=716White House withholding 9/11 files -- report: http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3690122Too many journalists parrot the establishment's spin on 9/11 http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/1740/?PHPSESSID=aeb94088c1423cb3fc65af22c2efa4fd [ Post Comment ] Post Comment