cannabisnews.com: Case Thrown Out For Pot-Smoking Driver Case Thrown Out For Pot-Smoking Driver Posted by CN Staff on August 02, 2003 at 11:51:41 PT Editorial Source: Journal Argus An Ontario judge threw out a case involving a pot-smoking driver, setting a precedent that has a lot of people scratching their heads. Apparently the driver has legal permission to smoke marijuana for medical reasons. He was smoking while driving, and got stopped for a traffic offence. The judge decided it could not be proved the marijuana caused the offence. In essence, the judge handed the man a "get out of jail free" card. He, and others who have medical permission to consume the drug, can now do it while driving. Granted, the drug provides relief for some health conditions. Few would argue against a cancer sufferer using the drug to combat pain and nausea from chemotherapy. Why this particular user was not satisfied to quietly smoke up in his living room but saw fit to take the show on the road, so to speak, no one knows. What we do know is most people who smoke marijuana do not do so for medical reasons. They take it to get high, the same reason people consume alcohol. Like alcohol, the drug interferes with the normal functioning of the human brain, causing a sensation a lot of people consider pleasurable. Like alcohol, marijuana does not do much for one's ability to concentrate, perform tasks requiring fine motor skills, or respond quickly and effectively to emergencies. Alcohol and marijuana act differently on the brain. Where a drunk might follow too closely and speed, someone high on marijuana has no attention span to speak of, and has trouble steering. The connection between alcohol and traffic collisions has been known and acknowledged for many years. Impaired drivers cause more than their fair share of deaths and injuries on the road. Marijuana, too, causes impairment. That is why people consume it. Most drivers could not care less if the guy in the next lane is on an industrial strength beer buzz, or is higher than a kite on weed, all we want is to get the idiot off the road. He is an accident looking for a place to happen. The bottom line is driving is a complex task requiring good reflexes, alertness, and the ability to assess risk and plan ahead. Operating a tonne of machinery hurtling down a road at a hundred-plus kilometres per hour, with hazards everywhere in the constantly changing landscape, is not for the faint of heart, or the muddled of mind. Marijuana may have a place in the medical world despite the lack of quality control and the inability to establish standard dosage. Our government has made the compassionate decision to exempt some people from being charged if they use marijuana for medical reasons. Few of us have a problem with that. We have a major problem with someone smoking up while driving. This case in question is not someone using marijuana for medical reasons - in his car - but someone seeing how far he can stretch the law before it snaps back at him. Before Canada goes further along the path toward decriminalizing marijuana, some ground rules need to be established. Until it can be determined exactly how much marijuana can be consumed for pain relief without impairing one's ability to drive, and until the amount a driver has consumed can be measured easily and accurately with some sort of roadside device, there has to be a zero-tolerance policy. No smoking up and driving. Perhaps, as is recommended by Canada Safety Council, the answer is a 12-hour administrative licence suspension for anyone suspected of consuming marijuana behind the wheel. The easier answer is the obvious one - people have to use common sense and leave all intoxicating substances alone if they plan to drive. Unfortunately, common sense is not all that common. Source: Journal Argus (CN ON)Published: Wednesday, July 30, 2003Copyright: 2003 Journal ArgusContact: editor stmarys.comWebsite: http://www.stmarys.com/Related Articles & Web Site:Cannabis News Canadian Linkshttp://freedomtoexhale.com/can.htm B.C. Police Target Drivers Impaired by Drugshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread16517.shtmlNew Laws Needed for Drivers Smoking Pothttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread15034.shtmlCauchon Vows Action on Drug-Impaired Drivinghttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread16432.shtml Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help Comment #23 posted by Dankhank on September 21, 2004 at 19:59:06 PT Marinol.pdf The link to the Marinol.pdf no longer works.http://marinol.com/pdf/Marinol.pdf has disappeared.To find it, go to, Web.Archive.org and put the old link in.It should give you three choices to look at and you can save a copy before it is scrubbed from the net.Peace to all who fight. [ Post Comment ] Comment #22 posted by Jose Melendez on August 03, 2003 at 08:52:00 PT I'll add... Also, and obviously, if pot was legal we might be less forced into using it on the highway, where it seems less likely to get caught.*Disclaimer: I'm not promoting stoned driving by eight year olds. I AM saying that current legal status pushes marijuana consumption onto the street, in ever stronger doses. It's only a gateway due to it's black marketability, as such. [ Post Comment ] Comment #21 posted by Jose Melendez on August 03, 2003 at 08:45:20 PT We know we are too stoned to drive. Drunks don't. Re: "...come on now, driving is a dangerous act in and of itself."... I agree, but the "other side" ignores statistically valid evidence that experienced users are slightly safer on the roads. Maybe the stereotypical paranoia is responsible for that FACT, but as others here have posted for years, those numbers are consistently ignored or knowledge of them denied by those with a financial or fanatical special interest. [ Post Comment ] Comment #20 posted by markjc on August 03, 2003 at 07:54:12 PT: come on now driving is a dangerous act in and of itself. just leave the cigarettes, cell phones, joints, whatever out of hand untill you get to your destination, not that im condoning making laws against it. We all think we are invincible in cars. people need to take their safety more seriously [ Post Comment ] Comment #19 posted by CorvallisEric on August 03, 2003 at 01:06:05 PT Look at prescribing info Marinol (oral THC capsules) prescribing information doesn't seem wildly alarming about experienced users driving:WARNINGS Patients receiving treatment with MARINOL® Capsules should be specifically warned not to drive, operate machinery, or engage in any hazardous activity until it is established that they are able to tolerate the drug and to perform such tasks safely.http://marinol.com/pdf/Marinol.pdfThat's probably similar to a lot of prescription drugs. I would guess prescribing info tends to be cautious. For comparison, here's the one for Prozac:Interference with cognitive and motor performance — Any psychoactive drug may impair judgment, thinking, or motor skills, and patients should be cautioned about operating hazardous machinery, including automobiles, until they are reasonably certain that the drug treatment does not affect them adversely.http://pi.lilly.com/prozac.pdf [ Post Comment ] Comment #18 posted by FoM on August 02, 2003 at 21:53:19 PT Hi AlvinCool Thank you for the link. It's good to see you. I didn't get flamming fix yet though! LOL! I forgot about it until I saw your post and remembered. STML is the darndest thing. [ Post Comment ] Comment #17 posted by AlvinCool on August 02, 2003 at 21:22:28 PT Studies Here is a link to a german study done on cannabis and driving. As always it says cannabis is not the problem it's people taking alcohol and other drugs with cannabis that impairs driving. http://www.vv.se/traf_sak/t2000/607.pdf [ Post Comment ] Comment #16 posted by FoM on August 02, 2003 at 18:47:20 PT Petard Thank you. I do get the Canadian cases mixed up. Anytime a person goes into a field that helps others it's a good thing. Most of my life I have done volunteer work and they have been the most rewarding. They are the good memories I remember. [ Post Comment ] Comment #15 posted by Lehder on August 02, 2003 at 18:34:10 PT again: marijuana is not alcohol >>Marijuana, too, causes impairment. That is why people consume it.I have never met anyone who smoked marijuana to become impaired. People smoke marijuana to enhance the quality of their lives and relationships. Here are more than sixty such thoughtful and literate smokers:http://www.marijuana-uses.com/examples/Those who wish to be impaired should and do drink alcohol. No other drug - not heroin, crack, nothing - can impair a person to the degree that alcohol impairs. No other commonly known drug can render a person physically incompetent, make him puke and fall over, transform a frend into a beast, cause him to drive like a madman, pick fights, destroy marriages and families. All these are the effects of alcohol, not marijuana.For alcoholics - 10 to 15 percent of those who drink - alcohol can turn one into a genuine loose cannon, a person that is moving about and interacting with people but has no awareness of what he's doing and cannot remember what he did the next day. Prisons are full of alcoholics who have only the most nebulous recollections of the crimes they committed. No wonder that so many responsible and rational people prefer the mild and beneficial effect of marijuana.The strength of marijuana's effect in comparison to alcohol's could be likened to the relative strengths of a dash of pepper from the shaker to a big mouthful of jalapeno pepper. Furthermore, the effect of marijuana is benign while that of alcohol is mentally devastating and physically enfeebling - to say nothing of long term use and cirrohsis. It's no wonder that people prefer marijuana - and any rational person would expect that society should prefer that its members smoke weed over drinking booze. It is absolutely moronic to categorize marijuana with alcohol as these editors do. But doing so strengthens the drug war. People who have never smoked hear the propaganda about marijuana and conclude that it must be far stronger and crueler in its effect than alcohol, the only drug that many people have ever seen in its effects. The same people who believe the lie that the effects of marijuana are as bad or worse than alcohol do not realize that they see dozens of people every day who are using marijuana. That's because people who smoke marijuana behave normally. They don't come up in your face with some aggressive bullshit the way drunks do. They don't even have a problem. They're normal. Drunks are not.They are the extremely mild effects of marijuana that have brought about piss tests. Decades ago, before marijuana became popular, piss tests were not needed. That's because a drunk is so easy to detect - he falls all over you, and when someone showed up for work drunk it was a simple matter to send him home for a day. Marijuana smokers perform at least as well as nonsmokers in their work and their lives and are hard to detect. It's as if black people were black only on their butts. You'd have to undress them before you could discriminate against them. If this were indeed the case, Americans would be differently attired. All clothing would allow for exposure of the buttocks, so precious do people hold their bigotries. [ Post Comment ] Comment #14 posted by Petard on August 02, 2003 at 18:09:45 PT Here ya go FoM I found it, forgot the guy's name and had to Google it first, then come back to the archives to search in the body for his name. Plus I've been lurking here longer than I realized and the time slips by when college is in session (getting a 3rd degree, this one a B.S. Radiological Technologist to help my fellow human beings instead of just making a buck). http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/15/thread15146.shtml [ Post Comment ] Comment #13 posted by FoM on August 02, 2003 at 16:56:48 PT You're Welcome ekim! We're watching it again right now! It's so good! Glad you are enjoying it too! [ Post Comment ] Comment #12 posted by ekim on August 02, 2003 at 16:49:47 PT Thanks for info on Dir TV Ch 103 Killer jam FOM [ Post Comment ] Comment #11 posted by FoM on August 02, 2003 at 16:34:33 PT Petard I looked in the archives but I'm not sure which case you mean. [ Post Comment ] Comment #10 posted by Petard on August 02, 2003 at 15:51:16 PT Judges ruling The judge actually ruled that the police failed to prove the guy's MJ and not his physical disability caused the impairent of his driving. That's why the cops are whining, they are being required to actually provide proof for a change. I'll actually give them credit for being human though. It's human nature to fight change, remember how scared folks were of computers years ago? Same thing here, the cops are frightened by change. I'm sure the archives here have the original story from late May or early June, about the same time the teenagers possession case blew down the wall. [ Post Comment ] Comment #9 posted by Jose Melendez on August 02, 2003 at 15:18:57 PT hey now... Deny it or not, it's all medicinal, AND lots of folks use it for the buzz, high, impairment or whatever they feel like calling it. I 420 too therefore I think slower and daily seek wellness. haiku [ Post Comment ] Comment #8 posted by i420 on August 02, 2003 at 15:01:07 PT More b.s. What we do know is most people who smoke marijuana do not do so for medical reasons. They take it to get high, the same reason people consume alcohol. Marijuana, too, causes impairment. That is why people consume it.This is a bunch of b.s. I know of noone who uses cannabis for impairment. Not everyone uses alcohol to "get high". Myself i enjoy beer cooked into chicken on the grill. Other than that I might have a beer or two a YEAR. Mostly for the taste not to get high. Still this is no reason to give someone a criminal record. [ Post Comment ] Comment #7 posted by JR Bob Dobbs on August 02, 2003 at 14:05:30 PT LTE Sirs, Your editorial writer makes the assumption that a driver under the influence of marijuana is equally risky as one under the influence of alcohol. This runs contrary to the findings of the Canadian Senate Committe on Illegal Drugs chaired by Pierre Claude Nolin, which came to the conclusion that "cannabis alone, particularly in low doses, has little effect on the skills involved in automobile driving." Their main concern with cannabis was with drivers who would consume it with alcohol - in that case, the senators reccomended lowering the blood-alcohol content minimum from .1% to .04%. But if marijuana alone poses less danger than alcohol alone, why is alcohol the legal one? [ Post Comment ] Comment #6 posted by Patrick on August 02, 2003 at 13:23:37 PT Editorial opinion this... Alcohol and marijuana act differently on the brain. DUH Where a drunk might follow too closely and speed, someone high on marijuana has no attention span to speak of, and has trouble steering.Humor me for one moment please….Where a drunk might follow too closely and speed, someone on a cell phone has no attention span to speak of, and has trouble steering. Eye witness observation from a 40-mile one-way daily commuter!Perhaps, as is recommended by Canada Safety Council, the answer is a 12-hour administrative license suspension for anyone suspected of holding a phone to their ear behind the wheel.The author of this opinion should spend more time at this website and get educated. Their raving is a typical piece of prohibitionist rehashing of the same old tired myths and lies. Just another opinion :) [ Post Comment ] Comment #5 posted by FoM on August 02, 2003 at 13:07:50 PT observer a Question How can we prevent laddering on a list? I've experimented with a few ways but unless it is HTML it seems to ladder in my tests. Thanks for everything! [ Post Comment ] Comment #4 posted by FoM on August 02, 2003 at 13:04:10 PT Thanks observer I wasn't sure how the list for CNews was coming along. I think it will be a nice feature. Let me know when you have time. Thanks! [ Post Comment ] Comment #3 posted by afterburner on August 02, 2003 at 12:43:09 PT: Contrast the Facts vs. the Scare Stories Contrast the Facts vs. the Scare Stories http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread16969.shtml#2 [ Post Comment ] Comment #2 posted by observer on August 02, 2003 at 12:37:49 PT Pot ''Impaired'' Drivers ''Impaired drivers cause more than their fair share of deaths and injuries on the road. Marijuana, too, causes impairment. That is why people consume it. Most drivers could not care less if the guy in the next lane is on an industrial strength beer buzz, or is higher than a kite on weed, all we want is to get the idiot off the road. He is an accident looking for a place to happen.''By conflating alcohol and cannabis "impairment", this huckster tries to insinuate that pot is just like alcohol and causes great carnage. Of course, the OPEDs sly insinuation is a lie. Stoned drivers are as safe or safer than drivers who have not consumed cannabis. Here's what the propagandists don't want you to think about:Australia: No Proof Cannabis Put Drivers At Risk (2001)http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n1849/a09.htmlUK: Cannabis May Make You A Safer Driver (2000) http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00/n1161/a02.html University Of Toronto Study Shows Marijuana Not A Factor In Driving Accidents (1999)http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases\1999\03\990325110700.htm Australia: Cannabis Crash Risk Less: Study (1998) http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v98/n945/a08.html Australia: Study Goes to Pot (1998) http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v98/n947/a06.html http://drugpolicycentral.com/bot/ - latest breaking pot news, 24/7 [ Post Comment ] Comment #1 posted by Big Trees on August 02, 2003 at 12:31:11 PT bible thumper maybe... "or is higher than a kite on weed".... need I say more. [ Post Comment ] Post Comment