cannabisnews.com: Pot: Altered State Pot: Altered State Posted by CN Staff on May 28, 2003 at 12:30:52 PT By Dan Ferguson Source: Surrey Leader The federal government's proposed new marijuana laws were given poor reviews by police, politicians and residents of Surrey and Delta on Tuesday.The new regulations, unveiled by federal Justice Minister Martin Cauchon, would reduce the punishment for possessing small amounts of pot to a ticketed fine, which would not result in a criminal record, while doubling the maximum possible prison term for running a marijuana grow operation from seven to 14 years. A first-time young offender caught with less than 15 grams of pot (about 20 joints . marijuana cigarettes) could be fined as little as $100, while punishment for grow ops would range from one year in jail or a fine for three plants or less, to a maximum of 14 years for 50 or more plants.If users are caught with pot while driving or on school property, they face harsher penalties.Traffickers still face a maximum possible term of life in prison for dealing marijuana.Ottawa also plans to spend $245 million a year to beef up policing, educate the public about marijuana health hazards, and conduct research and treatment programs to prevent drug use, especially among young people.A spokesman for the Delta Police Department expressed concern the changes could increase drug use, especially among young people, and said that could produce an increase in drug-related crime."The impact is not going to be simple, or one-dimensional," Const. Sharlene Brooks cautioned."It's imperative that the federal government provide funding to assist police in combatting public safety issues that may arise."Brooks added police hope the government will give judges clear direction about the need to use the tougher penalties for grow ops."We need a hard line (taken with) growers and dealers."A request for comment from the Surrey RCMP was directed to the force's national headquarters in Ottawa, where Cpl. Benoit Desjardin said the command would need to study the law in detail before responding.Surrey North MP Chuck Cadman, the Opposition justice critic, said the proposed changes are sending a mixed message to young people by telling them it's okay to possess a small amount of pot, but it's not acceptable to grow the plant or sell it."It's sucking and blowing at the same time," Cadman told The Leader Tuesday.Cadman predicted the proposed maximum sentences will only be imposed rarely, if at all, by the courts."If they (the Liberals) were really serious, they'd have set mandatory minimums," Cadman said.He complained the changes will do little if anything to combat the burgeoning problem of indoor grow ops in Surrey, where a recent RCMP study suggests as many as 4,500 are in business, and some neighbourhoods report more than half the homes on some streets are being used to conceal the illicit indoor grows.Mayor Doug McCallum gives the changes a mixed review, condemning the decriminalization of possession, but praising the tougher penalties for operating a grow op.McCallum also likes the proposed education campaign to raise consciousness about the health hazards posed by pot, calling it "a good move."Surrey Coun. Diane Watts, chair of the city's police, fire and public safety committee, predicted the changes will mean "government-sanctioned grow ops" because many dealers will simply treat the fines as a cost of doing business.Watts and Cadman both expressed concern that the changes will escalate cross-border drug smuggling through Surrey as Americans take advantage of this country's more lenient laws.A former Surrey pot grower, who asked not to be named, said the legal reform is a step in the right direction, "but it doesn't go far enough."The government, he said, should go all the way and make marijuana growing and consumption completely legal.A resident of one Surrey neighbourhood identified as a "hot spot" for grow ops (with as many as nine in a one-block area) said the changes may make it even harder to obtain convictions.The resident said his experience has been that judges tend to ask for stricter proof before they impose tougher penalties."I'm not going to do cartwheels," said the resident.Source: Surrey Leader (CN BC)Author: Dan FergusonPublished: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 Copyright: 2003 Surrey LeaderContact: newsroom surreyleader.comWebsite: http://www.surreyleader.com/Related Articles & Web Site:Cannabis News Canadian Linkshttp://freedomtoexhale.com/can.htmDrug Scheme Full of Mixed Messageshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread16429.shtmlLegalize Pot, Says Mayor Campbellhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread16423.shtmlA Realistic Revision of The Cannabis Lawhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread16421.shtml Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help Comment #14 posted by freedom fighter on May 31, 2003 at 00:25:12 PT Forgot to mention this part... You also pay for the water everyday... How much is the question! I get my figure from retail face value as a carpenter who is working and sweating the h%$l out and roach coach drives by yelling, " Do you want a drink?"8 simple plastic bottles with fancy names...paz ff [ Post Comment ] Comment #13 posted by freedom fighter on May 30, 2003 at 23:44:28 PT Ohhh, my friend darwin?? Go to any 7-11 store and buy one pint, 8 fl.oz (710 ml.) bottle of water will cost you 1 US$. How many pints to a gallon? 8 pints to a 4 quarts of free falling water from the Sky equals One gallon. I admit I embellished a bit, it should be 8 bucks but, you know taxes, etc....I know, it is like magic! 8 pints of pure water in a simple plastic bottle worth more than a gallon of gasoline. What would happen if certain folks are banned from drinking water? You know, """"" THE DREAD INSANE PROHIBITION""""""It's already 8 US$ in America in an average town per one gallon of "pure" water to a gallon of gasoline plus Taxes....pazff [ Post Comment ] Comment #12 posted by darwin on May 29, 2003 at 06:44:56 PT 10$ a gallon!? Freedom Fighter...You pay 10 bucks for a gallon of water?? That can't be right, it's 6 times the cost of gasoline. The same water that falls from the sky for free? [ Post Comment ] Comment #11 posted by freedom fighter on May 28, 2003 at 23:35:53 PT Just a thought Speaking of face value, has cannabis really truly risen over the year due to prohibition? Or was it just the nature of supply and demand? Reason I ask is because I feel something is truly amiss..In 1976, I brought a primo bag for 35$, (something Johnny did'nt know it exist). The bag was quite expensive at that time. Water was free. Bottled water were unheard of until few years later. Gas cost about 75 cents a gallon. A pack of marlboro cost 55 cents. Today, in the year of 2003, a gallon of gas cost 1.60$ bucks in Denver, 3$ bucks for a pack of cig..(any type)((only type forbidden, joints)), Bottled water cost 10 bucks a gallon, and an ounce of fine kind buds from our northern friend, 400$(darn it, I want that primo bag back in 1976.:)))My simple question is did the prohibition actually increase or have any influence on price of a commodity? Yes, in general the prohibition can push the price upward, but the question really is can they do that forever?? Or is it when the nature of money in society that enable the prohibition to increase the price of a substance at the same time creating an image that they are doing the job?hapazff [ Post Comment ] Comment #10 posted by freedom fighter on May 28, 2003 at 22:52:55 PT Lehder, from the face value of cannabis, I do'nt think government understand that they cannot forever increase the price of this certain substance in an effort to prevent people from buying. In other word, the policy of Canada will only create more growers on both side of the fence. And most importantly, this policy will definetely put more people in prisons. The value of a fine BC buds in America is equal to 2 ounces of gold. It's one ounce of gold in Canada, maybe the governments are trying to raise some cash, but hey, most likely, the people on both side are going do just one thing..OVERGROW THE GOVERNMENT...pazff [ Post Comment ] Comment #9 posted by freedom fighter on May 28, 2003 at 22:26:26 PT Twisted laws Did you hear about a man who got the summon from the law becuz he sat on a milk crate? I suppose I have invoked few giggles. Would it shock you to know that "law" is actually enforceable in New York today? http://prorev.com/indexa.htm for reference, Got to Travel Advisory article. "BLOOMBERG'S COPS TICKETING EVERYONE FOR ANYTHING - Ella and Serge Shroitman were ticketed for blocking their own driveway. Alexander Ortiz was ticketed for improperly bundling newspapers to be recycled. Pedro Nazario was ticketed for feeding pigeons in public. That black license plate frame that came with your car? Illegal. $55 fine. Taking up two seats on a train? $50. . . "It seemed all so funny, but what is so funny about putting a human being in a cage for LIFE because he grew pot plants? This mindless blathering of twisting the laws always cause just one thing..Chaos! There's no real control on street when you got thousands of crazy laws. Just look at the Romans.. At the end, you can bet the government went too crazy twisting the laws everyday right up until the end when the city is burning and the fools still trying making laws that benefit noone but the few.Today, I look and see what's on my land and all I can see is bloated crazy stupid laws everywhere that does'nt benefit anyone but the "few".pazff [ Post Comment ] Comment #8 posted by goneposthole on May 28, 2003 at 22:12:39 PT wrong, Lehder Pot prices in Canada are falling. Tightened and heightened border security has caused a glut of cannabis north of the border. [ Post Comment ] Comment #7 posted by freedom fighter on May 28, 2003 at 20:07:44 PT Why make a law that is not a solution? Why create laws that cause more problems? It is just that I just simply do not understand why any "civilized" country would create bad laws. Maybe I am just a too simple of a human being. All I can say to the Canadians, I am really sorry your country has to re-criminalize pot. This is not de-criminaliztion.pazff [ Post Comment ] Comment #6 posted by Lehder on May 28, 2003 at 19:23:55 PT still mad! this law is going to raise the price of marijuana in canada. when the price is raised, all the negative social effects of prohibition are intensified. this is precisely what the u.s. wants for you. the u.s. will destroy you socially and economically. it will take over and take everything you have, just as it does in any third world country or any american inner city. it will control your elections and determine your policies, foreign and domestic. more and more you'll be pawns and paupers. you'll fight each other over the few orts and leavings that the american elite allow you - just enough for some of you survive and do their bidding.don't you canadians get it yet? uncle sam will love your new law. he even wrote it for you! as i've said before, you're gonna be pickin' my blueberries for fifteen cents/hour. well, it's your choice - for the moment. [ Post Comment ] Comment #5 posted by Lehder on May 28, 2003 at 18:55:23 PT a big mess of a law >>while punishment for grow ops would range from one year in jail or a fine for three plants or less, to a maximum of 14 years for 50 or more plants.goodbye sea of green, hello marijuana sequoia.>>maximum possible term of life in prison for dealing marijuana.barbarism. do canadians live in cold caves like neanderthals? does their government sponsor gladiatorial combat? what is the penalty for beating a child to death with a whisky bottle?>>would reduce the punishment for possessing small amounts of pot to a ticketed fine, which would not result in a criminal record, while doubling the maximum possible prison term for running a marijuana grow operationeconomically the law is obviously and inherently self-contradictory. it's what you get when trying to please several strident groups at once: a kluge. canadians ought to have respected the report and recommendations of their own senate: re-legalize. relegalization. it's the only self-consistent and rational policy. but in the drug war, ignorance is strength, and contradiction is moral clarity. canadians, you are on your way to becoming americans. we'll send you our consultants to assist with your expanding prison system, preach the virtues of insecurity, violence and polarization, and to fully explain your new law to you.the only appropriate response to this absurd and insulting law is, as marc emery advocatesm, mass civil disobedience. let hundreds of thousands be ticketed for minor possession and let each of them challenge the charges and the law. throw sand in the machine, paralyze the courts, refuse to let them operate in such an irrational manner.civil disobedience to this law ought to be well organized too, with a fund for dedicated lawyers focusing on this single issue and a steady flow of clients, mass distribution of advice and procedures showing persons ticketed persons how to access the system of disobedience, and fearless public announcement of the strategy.canadians, you have two choices: relegalize or become americans. [ Post Comment ] Comment #4 posted by darwin on May 28, 2003 at 13:01:18 PT NPR NPR had Mitch Erlywine on and had a very good discussion on the Canadian decriminilization. [ Post Comment ] Comment #3 posted by cloud7 on May 28, 2003 at 13:00:13 PT Breaking News!! The first democratic presidential candidate, U.S. Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH), to support medical cannabis. From Marijuana Policy Project. http://www.mpp.org/releases/nr052803.html [ Post Comment ] Comment #2 posted by Ethan Russo MD on May 28, 2003 at 12:52:24 PT: DOA? Nobody seems to like this bill aside from Cauchon, Martin and Chretien. It is being savaged from the right, the left and the South!Such strong reaction from all sides indicates a fundamental flaw in its structure and intent, not the least of which that it does absolutely nothing to remedy the court's concerns, paramount among them the reasonable provision of cannabis medicine to deserving patients. [ Post Comment ] Comment #1 posted by Virgil on May 28, 2003 at 12:50:21 PT Class C has 14 years for cultivation/distribution Yes, you would think the prohibitionist are not concerned about consumption and only want to keep the price up. Then you have figured out the reasons for prohibitions of valuable plants. Smoke all you want as long as the price stays high. The UK is one day supposed to have a 14 year penalty like Canada has proposed, but the Labour Party is trying to avoid a slippery slope into a second rate party.How are they going to roll back pot by mail prepared with gourmet quality recipes and ingredients- http://www.thc420uk.org for the UK and Canada has http://www.marijuanahomedelivery.ca/ Prohibition is dying in Canada and the UK will follow them. In the US the manifestation of current insensibilities is going to kill Busch in his attempts to be a legitimate president and the army of reason that fights cannabis prohibition is growing and committed to change all the way to the Logical Conclusion. [ Post Comment ] Post Comment