cannabisnews.com: Juries Should Leave Lawmaking To The Lawmakers Juries Should Leave Lawmaking To The Lawmakers Posted by CN Staff on February 13, 2003 at 10:51:25 PT By Norah Vincent Source: Los Angeles Times Emotion has no place in a jury box. Neither does activism.But try telling that to the federal jurors who publicly apologized for convicting "guru of ganja" Ed Rosenthal on charges of marijuana cultivation and conspiracy in San Francisco this month. They feel really bad about having done their civic duty. So bad, in fact, that they've demanded that the judge in the case grant a new trial, claiming that had they known Rosenthal was growing marijuana as part of Oakland's medical marijuana program, they would have acquitted him of all charges. Their apology is unwarranted, their professed disdain for the judicial process reckless and destructive.Rosenthal was tried in a federal court for breaking federal laws that criminalize growing or distributing marijuana, even for medical use. By his own admission, he was guilty.The jurors heard all the relevant evidence and convicted him accordingly. They did the right and just thing. He is to be sentenced June 4 and faces 10 years to life in prison.The fact that Rosenthal was growing marijuana legally under California law was immaterial, because federal laws trump state laws. The judge was right to exclude any reference to the California law; it wasn't germane or binding. What's more, though Rosenthal may have broken the law for the best possible reasons -- to provide relief and alternative treatment to the sick and dying -- he broke the law nonetheless. Snipped:Complete Article: http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/sts.htm Source: Los Angeles Times (CA)Author: Norah Vincent Published: February 13, 2003 Copyright: 2003 Los Angeles TimesContact: letters latimes.comWebsite: http://www.latimes.com/ Related Articles & Web Site:Ed Rosenthal's Trial Pictures & Articleshttp://freedomtoexhale.com/trialpics.htmTrust-Buster: Ashcroft Kicks The Dog Once Againhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread15461.shtmlThe Conviction of Ed Rosenthal http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread15456.shtmlThe Feds Versus Ed - San Francisco Examinerhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread15452.shtml Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help Comment #25 posted by aocp on February 14, 2003 at 10:54:53 PT more thoughts The judge was right to exclude any reference to the California law; it wasn't germane or binding.I believe they brought Ed to trial by arraigning him with state thugs. Then, these f***s just handed him over to the feds, yes? Breyer probably still would have overruled MMJ inclusion, but the fact that the feds couldn't get the ball rolling on their own speaks volumes to me. I hope i'm not spouting off about this incorrectly (regarding the facts). [ Post Comment ] Comment #24 posted by Nicholas Thimmesch on February 14, 2003 at 07:42:21 PT: If Norah Vincent the author of this missive is... ...still the subject of this thread, then check this out:Thursday, August 29, 2002 A READER WRITES . . . Norah Vincent: Jackson Browne Fan -- And Plagiarist? To The Rittenhouse Review: I was checking out the site today and I came upon your assessment of the mysterious Norah Vincent. I was struck by this particular turn of phrase: “. . . the fitful dream of this rude and much greater awakening.” It rang familiar. Then I remembered this verse from Jackson Browne’s “The Pretender”: I want to know what became of the changes we waited for love to bring Were they only the fitful dreams of some greater awakening? So, not only is Norah a hack, she’s not even an original one. Stealing from a song called “The Pretender”? Classic. At least Peggy Noonan isn’t copping her banalities from old Dan Fogelberg tunes. Keep up the good work. Signed, Charles Pierce posted by The Rittenhouse Review | Copyright 2002 | PERMALINK --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Wednesday, August 28, 2002 NORAH VINCENT: TRACING NOONAN’S FOOTSTEPS Rejected New York Sun Manuscript Reappears Terrorism “expert” Norah Vincent now has her own weblog, Norah’s LogJam, a mess of a website at which anyone with a browser can stumble across what is sure to be a growing collection of incoherent and discursive Peggy Noonan-esque essays rejected by editors across the land. Earlier this week, Vincent published an untitled “essay” of sorts that had been rejected by even the desperately copy-starved New York Sun for being “too rhetorical.” (A phrase Tapped accurately translates as meaning, “Get off the couch and do some actual reporting instead of stringing together vague platitudes.”) “Enjoy,” Vincent exhorts readers. Yes. Enjoy such brilliant and insightful gems as these: After the attacks of Sept. 11, writes Vincent, “Schadenfreude was everywhere, smiling on the face of every disaffected leftist intellectual and Islamist sympathizer. While pictures of the dead went up all over town, the professorate rejoiced. They were demonstrably right, you see, about those chickens called American foreign policy coming home to roost.” To which Vincent adds: “Let the bored radicals rave, and in their ravings give us still more justification for our course of proactive action. The sickly quality of their mercy won’t restrain us.” And this: “We are changed, but not in the cowering way some had hoped. Undeclared war came home to our front yards a year ago and, courtesy of cable news, it tramped through our living rooms as well. Reality hit hard that day, so hard that even Pearl Harbor seemed small by comparison, the fitful dream of this rude and much greater awakening.” These three selections are just a sampling of the disaster Vincent thought worthy of publication. Fortunately for Vincent’s self-esteem, her blogging software informs us that “commenting [is] temporarily unavailable.” Vincent’s recent career path remains a mystery, as does the esteem with which she is regarded in certain circles, albeit right-wing enclaves not known for maintaining particularly high standards. Vincent is not an intellectual, she is not an original thinker, she performs virtually no reportage, and she isn’t even a good writer. Instead, Vincent’s pieces share a remarkable resemblance to the cloying compositions of high-school girls seeking to express their loftiest thoughts while utterly lacking the vocabulary to do so. Sounds like the recent work of a certain resident alien Brit we know who just happens to be a friend and ally of Vincent. [ Post Comment ] Comment #23 posted by JR Bob Dobbs on February 14, 2003 at 06:14:51 PT LTE Sirs, When it comes to a case like Ed Rosenthal's, where the federal government's policy is so myopically entrenched in their vicious drug-war cycle to ever change the law on their own, the people have a responsibility to stand up to the system and say what is right. The judge acts on behalf of the people, and when the judge forgets this, the people have the duty to stand up for their beliefs. Don't forget, while the feds will shout up and down that marijuana has no medicinal value, they themselves are distributing it to seven seriously ill Americans in the federal Compassionate IND program, and have been for decades. [ Post Comment ] Comment #22 posted by SWAMPIE on February 14, 2003 at 00:09:28 PT Cannabis:The Brink Of War Over A Plant...... FoM,In couldn't have said it any better than you just did.I wish I was in Kansas...... [ Post Comment ] Comment #21 posted by FoM on February 13, 2003 at 21:47:45 PT Thanks afterburner I think like you do. The difference between the format of CNews and Ron Bennett's site - http://www.Cannabis.com is the articles and the way the page is laid out and the archives etc. Cannabis related news is important even though it should be a non issue. That's why it is important. If we go to war in a big way more people will use Cannabis because of the tension that war produces and Cannabis will help them cope better then prescription drugs that have side effects and health risk factors. Back in the 70s a term was used called Copping out. Copping out occurs when life around you becomes too chaotic. No one seems to talk about the damage from overwhelming fear that this is putting on many people especially those who live in D.C and New York. People will need help and Cannabis would be a blessing to many. [ Post Comment ] Comment #20 posted by afterburner on February 13, 2003 at 21:16:16 PT: FoM- I appreciate your role as coordinator... and cannabis-sniffing newshound. Without the articles we would have nothing upon which to comment. I appreciate the comments because there is generally more truth in them. I get tired of reading the same lies and propaganda over and over in some of the articles. Don't stop posting them though: we need the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth [even when that truth is really the repetition of stale propaganda; the truth is that the prohibitionists really do expect us to swallow their lies].ego destruction or ego transcendence, that is the question. [ Post Comment ] Comment #19 posted by FoM on February 13, 2003 at 18:43:10 PT About People Who Don't Post but Read I want to mention that I hope the people who are registering everyday feel comfortable posting a comment. It's remarkable the amount of people that are registering these days. It's scary to say something the first time but it gets easier and I know everyone has something they'd like to mention about reforming the drug laws and I hope they do. [ Post Comment ] Comment #18 posted by FoM on February 13, 2003 at 18:06:04 PT afterburner What I like about Cannabis News is all the information coming together for people to read. I don't know very much about some of the comments and links but I know many of you do. Many people want to learn about different issues and bringing it together for us to dissect and digest is good. It shows we care and we think and then teach others about what each one of us knows more about. That makes the news more complete to me. [ Post Comment ] Comment #17 posted by afterburner on February 13, 2003 at 17:48:38 PT: Internet Free America Just as Radio Free Europe once offered an alternative to Communism, just as pirate radio once offered an alternative to corporate-controlled radio, so the cannabis choir continues to rebut and refute the perpetual and new lies of cannabis prohibition. Keep up the good work, gang. The battle is in the media and in the courts, as well as in the legislatures, at the ballot box, and in the cooperatives.To me, the comments are often more important than the articles. The love and honor of the Constitution, the belief in true judicial justice as opposed to the "modern" travesty of adversarial truth-hiding that passes for courtroom procedure, these are the gems that glitter on Cannabis News and attract me (and some of the lurkers?).ego destruction or ego transcendence, that is the question. [ Post Comment ] Comment #16 posted by FoM on February 13, 2003 at 17:45:36 PT mayan That's a good article on Jury Nullification. I sure don't mind you reposting it. It is important for people to know. Thanks! [ Post Comment ] Comment #15 posted by mayan on February 13, 2003 at 17:32:45 PT Jury Nullification... Sorry to keep posting this, but it is a great article regarding jury nullification!Our Last, Best Hope: http://www.sierratimes.com/robinson.htm [ Post Comment ] Comment #14 posted by Morgan on February 13, 2003 at 17:10:13 PT Well Said HEAR HEAR JoeCitizen! (Raps cane on floor) [ Post Comment ] Comment #13 posted by p4me on February 13, 2003 at 17:08:07 PT You don't have to sing solo here curmudgeons- n.- An ill-tempered person full of resentment and stubborn notions.I don't know if I am a curmudgeon or not, but you are not alone in the song you sing. Welcome to the choir.How about the purpose of the UN is to avert war through all means possible according to its charter. It seems like the misadministration would understand that- http://www.consortiumnews.com/2003/021303a.html Acquiescence to Bush could buy the U.N. some "relevance" in the eyes of the Bush administration. But falling in line behind Bush would go against the U.N.'s founding principles and cost the international body credibility in the eyes of billions of people around the world. They would simply conclude that the U.N.'s ideals of peace hold only so long as they serve the interests of the United States – and in this case, the desires of George W. Bush. [ Post Comment ] Comment #12 posted by elfman_420 on February 13, 2003 at 17:06:24 PT total fatalities in the war on some drugs After considering the story darkstar posted, I wonder if anybody could come up with the number of people who have died as a result of the war on some drugs instead of just putting out billions of dollars figures. [ Post Comment ] Comment #11 posted by JoeCitizen on February 13, 2003 at 16:42:17 PT: For the LAST time... Federal law DOES NOT trump state law.10th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America:THE POWERS NOT DELEGATED TO THE UNITED STATES BY THE CONSTITUTION, NOR PROHIBITED BY IT TO THE STATES, ARE RESERVED TO THE STATES RESPECTIVELY, OR TO THE PEOPLE.The power delegated to the Federal Government by the Constitution are quite specific and limted: To establish taxes and borrow money, to regulate INTERSTATE commerce (as well as trade with foreign nations and Indian tribes), to establish uniform laws on immigration and bankruptcy, to coin money, to establish uniform weights and measures, to punish counterfeiters, to run the Post Office and Postal roads, to issue patents and copyrights (for a LIMITED time, you Disney a**holes), to establish the Judiciary below the Supreme Court, to Punish pirates and International criminals, to declare war and make rules about how to conduct war and warlike acts, to raise (as well as support and regulate) the Army and Navy, to call forth (and support and regulate) the Militia for purposes of repelling invaders or putting down insurrections (which sounds kinda ominous right now), to control the seat of government (Washington, D.C.) and government lands needed for forts, docks, and essential government buildings, and to make such laws as are necessary to carry out these specific functions.These are all clearly spelled out in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution. NOWHERE in these enumerated powers is Congress granted the right to regulate food or medicine of any sort. If foods or medicines cross state lines and cause problems, Congress does have some right to regulate there. But NOT within the boundaries of a state. That expressly violates the 10th amendment. When Congress made marijuana illegal, when they voted to declare that it is not a medicine - these are illegal, unconstitutional acts. If you don't think this is true, ask yourself why they had to amend the constitution to make alcohol illegal. The answer: they had no constitutional power to do so before the 18th amendment. No such amending was done for the current drug laws. Therefore, they are illegal and unconstitutional.When fools (or useful idiots, as Lenin would have said) like Norah Vincent loudly proclaim that "Federal laws trumps state laws", and "the law is the law", they reveal themselves for what they really are: control freaks who don't give a good goddamn about the REAL laws of this country, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Idiots like her don't trust people, they think they need to be controlled."Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from the highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort." - Robert Heinlein. God save me from "neighbors" like Ms. Vincent, and their controlling ways.Any of you curmudgeons out there with me?JoeCitizen Constitution of the United States [ Post Comment ] Comment #10 posted by p4me on February 13, 2003 at 12:42:52 PT The possessive of fascist Arianna Huffington wrote a column on apostrophes- http://www.ariannaonline.com/columns/files/121602.htmlFascist posess many things including Congress and the media. If the fascist word were used more often I would not be confused on when to use it with an s, as a plural.Every time I say something like the caption for comment9, I wonder about apostrophes. Like, is it Fascists' crazy talk or fascist's crazy talk or fascist crazy talkor fascists crazy talk. Well this article is one of them and if the press used the possessive form of fascist, I would know which one by now wouldn't I? [ Post Comment ] Comment #9 posted by p4me on February 13, 2003 at 12:30:34 PT Fascists crazy talk Their apology is unwarranted, their professed disdain for the judicial process reckless and destructive.Their statements are fully warranted and their distain for the judicial process overly justified and constructive to reform.Do the fascist want us to surrender our right to jury nullification because they have not covered their bases with the Patriot Act? Why doesn't he say jury nullification- force of habit? The guy that wrote this is nuts to reduce such nonsense to writing. Hang them all. [ Post Comment ] Comment #8 posted by observer on February 13, 2003 at 11:57:35 PT according to conscience ''Emotion has no place in a jury box. Neither does activism.''False, and false. Prosecutors play exclusively on emotion, usually the emotions of fear and feelings or prejudice, in their quest to convict people of newly-minted "crimes" against ze state.''The jurors heard all the relevant evidence and convicted him accordingly.''False, again. This one doesn't even pass the straight-face test.''federal laws trump state laws''We keep hearing this mantra chanted by the Federally-faithful, as they decry traditional jury power. We know who's full of it.I think we have a stark choice. We can believe the ignorant and prejudiced, those who would keep us in the dark, people like Norah Vincent and other courtesans for, and apologists of centralized big government power. Or, we can believe the very people who framed our constitutions, men like John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Here's what ol' Norah forgot to mention:"It is not only his right, but his duty... to find the verdict according to his own best understanding, judgment, and conscience, though in direct opposition to the direction of thecourt." -- President John Adams"Jurors should acquit, even against the judge's instruction . . . if exercising their judgment with discretion and honesty they have a clear conviction the charge of the court is wrong." -- Alexander Hamilton, 1804"If a juror accepts as the law that which the judge states, then the juror has accepted the exercise of absolute authority of a government employee and has surrendered a power and right that once was the citizen's safeguard of liberty." -- Justice Theophilus Parsons, 1788"I consider trial by jury as the only anchor ever yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." -- Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Thomas Paine, 1789 "No freeman shall be arrested, or imprisoned, or deprived of his freehold, or his liberties, or free customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or in any manner destroyed (harmed), nor will we (the king) proceed against him, nor send any one against him, by force or arms, unless according to (that is, in execution of) the sentence of his peers, and (or or, as the case may require) the Common Law of England, (as it was at the time of Magna Charta, in 1215.)" [I think the Magna Charta one shows how deep jury power really runs in the traditions of many English-speaking nations]many more here: http://www.fija.org/quotes.htm Breaking drug-related news at the speed of Bot! drugpolicycentral.com/bot :-] [ Post Comment ] Comment #7 posted by WolfgangWylde on February 13, 2003 at 11:55:24 PT The author... ...is obviously ignorant of the longstanding principle of jury nullification, and its role in ending Alcohol Prohibition and Slavery. What a dunce. [ Post Comment ] Comment #6 posted by Dark Star on February 13, 2003 at 11:36:11 PT Related Story Anti-drug flight crashes in Colombia:http://www.msnbc.com/news/872419.asp?0cv=CB10More deaths in a war that should not be fought.[Dark Star saw the Dead 9 times between 1970 and 1983!] [ Post Comment ] Comment #5 posted by 420toker on February 13, 2003 at 11:24:17 PT And Class.......... This is how people like Hitler came to power, by excluding and focusing on certain individual aspects of what they are doing and declaring them right and just. If the individual act itself does not conflict with law or morals in and of itself its ok. But when looking at the big picture it clearly becomes evedent that Mr. rosenthal was targeted and clearly made an example of by the Feds (show me a federal example and I will show you a grave injustice). Essentially any and all trials start out with a set of judges opinions and rules. These rules were origionally designed to keep the jury from being tainted but these days its more like the rules given at the begining of a card game, arbitrary and tilted tward the one who made them up. This problem has its root not in the law but the will of congress. This is an injustice not because of the state verses fed law issue. It is an injustice because congress has made it their buissiness to tell the world marijuana has no medical value (and their uneducated belief(they are not doctors(except Ron Paul))). I have the feeling that in the next couple of years the American people (or the supreme court) will reinform congress that it is not allowed to make that decision. Answer me this if congress can outlaw medical use of pot can it not outlaw medical use of Arithromyacin? And do you think they have that power? (Life, Liberty and the persuit of Happiness) [ Post Comment ] Comment #4 posted by Truth on February 13, 2003 at 11:19:42 PT Sorry this is off topic.... Dark Star, are you going to The Dead tomorrow? [ Post Comment ] Comment #3 posted by Dark Star on February 13, 2003 at 11:03:23 PT I Believe She's Wrong "We the People" often elect people to Congress based on the promises they make. These are very frequently broken. I do not see a lot of people running on a platform of reforming marijuana laws. By her logic, we could still have slavery in this country, since it was once legal. There are certain times when nullification is necessary. In this case the jury served as unwitting dupes and tools of the system, there only so that a claim of a "fair trial" could be made. That is unadulterated crap. [ Post Comment ] Comment #2 posted by druid on February 13, 2003 at 10:56:28 PT follow up to previous post #1 You can leave a comment on the article page. I left the first and only comment so far. I corrected the article which incorrectly stated that Ed Rosenthal took a plea. (They must have plagiarised from the Seattle-Times!).Go ahead comment. I dare ya! [ Post Comment ] Comment #1 posted by druid on February 13, 2003 at 10:54:13 PT Article about States Rights and Ed Rosethal http://www.theeastcarolinian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/02/13/3e4bd9c93c2e3 [ Post Comment ] Post Comment