cannabisnews.com: Physicians Win Court Victory on Medical Marijuana





Physicians Win Court Victory on Medical Marijuana
Posted by CN Staff on October 31, 2002 at 13:24:44 PT
By James Harrison, The Daily Journal
Source: Ukiah Daily Journal 
California physicians who prescribe or even recommend the use of marijuana for medical purposes can breathe a little easier, thanks to a ruling Tuesday by the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.The court concluded that the federal government cannot punish such physicians by revoking their federal license to prescribe medications. This is welcome news, said Dr. Marvin Trotter, with the Mendocino County Public Health Department.
Doctors are licensed by the state to practice medicine, he explained, but in order to prescribe controlled substances, they must have a license from the federal Drug Enforcement Agency."The federal government was saying they would revoke your license if you prescribed or recommended marijuana to anybody. They argued the doctors were aiding and abetting criminal activity by recommending marijuana."The appeals court is saying that doctors have a constitutional right to speak with their patients about medical marijuana or any other medication."The federal government has indicated a willingness to go after physicians simply for telling their patients they might benefit from using marijuana."Not only would you lose your federal license to prescribe medicine," Trotter adds, "you could be excluded from the MediCal and Medicare programs. You'd be out of business. Who could survive in Mendocino County if you didn't see MediCal and Medicare patients?"California physicians were placed in a somewhat precarious position after the passage of Proposition 215, which Trotter calls "a vaguely worded amendment that says people can have marijuana for medical purposes, if they have the recommendation of a physician for certain diseases or for any other diseases."By adhering to their own medical judgment as well as the will of California voters, physicians who recommend medical marijuana found themselves facing the wrath of the federal government."Following the passage of Prop. 215, the Clinton administration said doctors who prescribed medical marijuana would lose their licenses," Trotter recalls. The Bush administration, he adds, has continued that policy, even though by opposing the will of California's voters, Bush is contradicting his own conservative ideology."States' rights is a common argument," Trotter points out, "until it interferes with the Bush administration's agenda."Tuesday's ruling was the second straight victory for medical marijuana advocates. The California Supreme Court had earlier ruled that patients could not be prosecuted if they used medical marijuana on their doctors' advice.Even though he applauds both rulings, Trotter wants to make it clear he is in no way advocating the use of marijuana in general."It's a very addictive drug and should be discouraged just like alcohol. Alcohol and marijuana cause a lot of health problems," he notes. Even so, Trotter adds, "no one should be telling a cancer patient that there is any drug they shouldn't be allowed to use, if they so desire."And treating such use as if it were a criminal matter, he says, makes no sense at all especially when it is perfectly legal to treat patients with a variety of other medications that can also have negative side effects."I have never understood why a doctor can give you a hundred Valium or Vicodin and nobody would blink an eye, but if you recommend marijuana you could lose your license and not be allowed participate in MediCal or Medicare. That's insanity to me."Noting that there are at least 20 different physicians in the county who have prescribed marijuana for their patients, Trotter concludes Tuesday's ruling "will make everybody breathe easier if it is not overturned by the federal Supreme Court. The Supreme Court is a much more conservative court than the 9th Court of Appeals."The Bush administration is expected to turn to the Supreme Court in its continuing effort to stop the use of medical marijuana.Source: Ukiah Daily Journal (CA)Author: James Harrison, The Daily JournalPublished: Thursday, October 31, 2002Copyright: 2002 Ukiah Daily JournalContact: udj pacific.netWebsite: http://www.ukiahdailyjournal.com/Related Articles & Web Site:Conant vs. Walters in PDF http://freedomtoexhale.com/conant.pdfPot Ruling Shields Doctorshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread14620.shtmlThe Wrong War on Drugshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread14619.shtmlA Win for Medical Marijuana http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread14612.shtml 
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Comment #38 posted by lookinside on November 03, 2002 at 07:20:59 PT:
DdC....
Thank you for posting the "100 monkeys" link. I happen to believe in cosmic/group consciousness. Yesterday I was startled when I heard 2 people of extremely diverse socioeconomic backrounds mention the possibility of revolution in the good old U.S.A.Neither of these people are activists. They are thinking Americans. Apparently, the 100th monkey has started washing his sweet potato.Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."
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Comment #37 posted by DdC on November 02, 2002 at 00:07:43 PT
Getting Closer To The 100th Monkey ¶8)
http://www.spiritual-endeavors.org/free/100monk-all.htm
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Comment #36 posted by canaman on November 01, 2002 at 23:31:09 PT
Ridin' the storm out
Even with all the changes behind and inevitable changes to come, all the frustration and pain and all the ups and downs along this journey, it sure is inspiring to be sharing this experience with such a fine group of fellow travlers. What an excellent example of the sum being greater than the parts. I've gathered more useful info here for ammunition in a few months than in previous years of searching. We are reaching critical mass, it's only a matter of time. Sooner would be better than later. We all know the destination and with our 'eyes on the prize' we will reach it. Along the way lets continue to enjoy the ride. And give thanks always ;-)
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Comment #35 posted by FoM on November 01, 2002 at 22:12:02 PT
Patrick
Thank you. I appreciate you too and when I see a post of yours one thing always comes to my mind. You know what it is? On that terrible day on September 11th 2001 you asked me if you could hang around CannabisNews even though news had basically stopped like the whole world stopped that day. That was very comforting for me to know that you cared and felt comfortable enough, to like you said I believe, hang around. We make memories for others when we don't even realize it sometimes.As far as dear dddd we've had an in depth talk about all of this a while back and he was gracious and understood. That's why I like that little rascal! LOL!
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Comment #34 posted by Joe Citizen on November 01, 2002 at 22:06:17 PT
Intelligently creating gridlock
welcome to hell!
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Comment #33 posted by Patrick on November 01, 2002 at 21:55:28 PT
FoM
I have had nothing but praise for you and this website. God knows i have vented far more that than the average human but I have respected everyone else's right to do so as have you! 4d came out of hiding the other night to post his/her view and that speaks volumes to those in the KNOW. To directly quote VitaminT, "I count on all the posters here for insight into the issues"They (the other side) can't change any of us!!!!!Love you FoM!
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Comment #32 posted by FoM on November 01, 2002 at 11:09:39 PT
VitaminT
I appreciate your comment. I understand what you're saying. As far as the stats you posted I'm not sure how to answer that. There are lots of stats but I posted the total number. Rather then me guessing I'll just not say since a lot of stuff like that goes over my head. I know we don't have a few of the good posters commenting much anymore including you. I mind that but I try to figure that everyone has work to do or other things to do and I believe in giving people space. I know kapt is busy but reads the news everyday. All the comments that are in this thread can help us get over issues that might bother one person but not another. Life is a give and take kinda thing. No one can get their own way all the time. Respect for each others opinions is critical to me. I wouldn't have a friend that was always upset with my other friends. That's just the way I am. I want a peaceful life as best can be and fighting, being rude, being self serving just doesn't make for good feelings. We are a community. We need to help each other. We should never hurt each other. 
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Comment #31 posted by VitaminT on November 01, 2002 at 10:49:58 PT
FoM does that mean . . . 
that Cannabisnews served 206,840 yesterday alone? I've been following it and it looks that way to me! outrageous! My $.02 on the issue of guidelines: I have always known that my posts here are made at the pleasure of and under the scrutiny of the owners of the list. The claims of censorship are to me, totally unfounded, this is a private forum for a stated purpose: to collect current news stories about Cannabis and to provide space for visitor commentary on them. Posting is a privilege not a right. FoM has proven herself a fair, thoughtful arbiter and looking around the net I'd have to say we could do A LOT worse. FoM permits many more communications here than she is obliged to. I've seen scathing personal attacks that IMO, true or not, don't belong here. If you've been victimized by someone - take it up w/them or get a lawyer - trashing them here is a waste of a lot of people's time. Another example: I see some overlong meandering posts that do little more than provide links to various websites, I don't have time to follow 2 or 3 screens worth of links particularly when many of them are not very rewarding! 1 or 2 links backing up a succinct point related to the article is great - I can use that! This site is my prime resource for writing letters to editors, congress etc. I count on all the posters here for insight into the issues - it informs a more effective activism which is the whole reason I visit! Some people have stopped or greatly limited their posting here in part, I suspect, because they feel their posts are buried under screenloads pointless verbiage. I'm telling you that I'm one of them - not that my posts are any more worthy than others - but I'd like to think that there's a chance that they will be read. C-News is nobody's personal playground It's about ending the War on Cannabis and when the war ends I want to be in the large crowd of people wishing FoM well as she figuratively rides off into the sunset in a puff of sweet smelling herbal smoke. (even if she doesn't inhale) 
 
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Comment #30 posted by DANA on November 01, 2002 at 08:30:50 PT
...Well Said Morgan!...
...too bad TecHnoCult had to spoil everything with that "on topic" post.FoM...I can imagine that alot of all this is probably quite traumatic for you....Just want you to know,,that everything is going to be all right...all of this is good!.......oh,and by the way, I got another postcard from pppp... He told me to tell you that you are the BEST,and that you should try to relax,and do whatever it takes to avoid getting stressed out by whatever it is that is happening. ......things could be alot worse....................I'll bet that Kap would agree!......(and I aint talkin about your dog.,,but come to think of it,,your dog would probably also agree.).............L......o.......L.........d
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Comment #29 posted by FoM on November 01, 2002 at 08:06:22 PT
Thank You Everyone
I can't really comment now because I need to look for news but I believe they we have a good group of people here that have added so much to Cannabis News. Morgan said it right. We are having growing pains. That doesn't mean that things are bad and doomed but a few problems need to be worked out. I thought you might want to see the statistics for October because they are in. We broke a record and here are the numbers for October. Thank you all for making it possible.2,715,059 Total Hits
  
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Comment #28 posted by TecHnoCult on November 01, 2002 at 07:55:53 PT
Not to get off subject...
and get back to the article, but, this needs to be addressed.Overall a positive article, but he said:"It's a very addictive drug and should be discouraged just like alcohol. Alcohol and marijuana cause a lot of health problems,"Now, I am willing to concede that marijuana is mildly addictive, but very addictve? And what health problems?At any rate, I appreciate the article's criticism of the pharmacutical industry.THC
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Comment #27 posted by Morgan on November 01, 2002 at 07:53:56 PT
Growing Pains
That's the problem with this page...it's alive and growing! It's bursting at it's seams! Disparate streams of energy are spiraling in, more and more, spinning, clashing, mixing into one chaotic, beautiful whole, and shooting out of thousands of monitors around the world.It's scary and wonderful, and our gut survival instincts tell us that it needs control...it needs a thought-out mold to shape and hold this white-hot metal to keep it from spilling on the floor into a shapeless puddle.We should see this for what it truly is.This chaos, this mess...this is Creation.And I am thankfull."He not busy being born, is busy dying."
Dylan
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Comment #26 posted by BGreen on November 01, 2002 at 02:31:37 PT
I agree with everybody because you're all right
Is that possible? Since I've been part of this debate for several months, I'd like to stick my nose in.Richard Lake, I can't tell you how much I appreciate Cannabisnews.com and mapinc.org. FoM knows I'm one of her biggest fans. There's no doubt most of us feel the same way.Let's talk about how we can ALL be right. Censorship: The way this enters in is the most insidious; the guidelines impose a form of self-censorship. Most of us are going to think we have nothing of relevance compared to Dr. Russo et. al, so many great comments will never be offered.Off-topic posts: Many times this is in the eye of the reader. I'm an artist, musician and entertainer. I live music, so excluding music from my comments removes MY expertise from the conversation. Sure Dr. Russo has no problem with the orderly intellectual and scholarly remarks, but that's not the world some of us live in.Let's face it, we express ourselves in many different ways. Jazz trumpeter and legend Miles Davis played in a way we call "out." He played outside of the norm, outside of the expected, in fact, he played so far outside that sometimes you'd wonder if he was still playing the same song as the rest of the band. Many people STILL don't get it, but Miles knew exactly what he wanted to communicate through his horn.Should we dismiss Miles Davis because many people, heck, let's be honest, MOST people just don't understand what he was saying?What may seem off-topic to one person may be totally relevant to the thought flow of the person writing the comment. That's where the attacks have come from. Some of us are just too far "out" for others to understand.Most of us are anarchists at heart, and trying to make us conform to rules is an affront to our very nature. There has to be some order, but I think something has to be done to soften the guideline language to prevent anybody except those with a bunch of letters after their name from posting here.Anything we can do to help Richard avoid legal problems is really the least that we can do.I love you all, my brothers and sisters,Rev. Bud Green, ph. ed. up.
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Comment #25 posted by DANA on November 01, 2002 at 02:26:37 PT
...Richard!...
..I know that there is alot more involved with all this,than loudmouths like myself are cognizant of...I realize that there were some rather rough comments sent in your direction ,and I hope we all can sort of close this chapter,and realize that the most important part of what we have here,,is just that,,,,Once again,I salute you,and sincerely appreciate what you are trying to do,and where you are coming from in all this. ..In regards to respect for FoM,,,I would crawl to Utah,and trade my shoes for a trycicle,,and pedal my way to FoMs house,just to make sure she was not unhappy.....I think that FoM is highly respected by everyone!,,and if she's not,,I wanna know,because I will personally kick the ass of anyone who badmouths FoM!..I know that your intentions are 100% GOOD,,and I know that some of the comments concerning the guidelines thing,have gotten a bit harsh,,and even rude...People said things that they should not have said,and the whole thing drifts out of proportion into some weird picture of a standoff....What I want to say,,Is now that alot has been said about this whole thing,,,and people(including myself),have voiced their concerns,and abrasive comments have been tossed about ..........Let's pretend that everything is normal! ...let's get on with doing what we do here....let's let all this simmer,and marinade,and put any contentions on the back burner for now........Richard..I am serious..again,I salute you,and respect you...Things were said in the heat of the comments that were rude,and unjustified!I hope you will not take any of it personally..People tend to be outspoken here,and that can be good,,and bad.....Let's Keep on Keepin' On,,,and let whatever needs to happen,,happen......I'm sure that all will agree,;that life is too short to get hung up on arguing about how we're going to argue about the things we are supposed to be discussing.(?).....dP.S.....Had Enough...Got a postcard from 4b yesterday...He said Neptune is dazzling,and enchanting this time of year!..The blue volcanoes erupt with fronds of gold crystals which is made even more spectacular by the irridescent atmospheric sprites that occur this time of the year......(a "year",on Neptune,,is nothing like an Earth year.)..
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Comment #24 posted by Had Enough on November 01, 2002 at 01:18:46 PT
4dqpb Family
Good to hear the family is ok.Boy am I glad the Uranians found you instead of the Imperial Patrol Fleet. If they had given you a tow, or other assistance, especially medical assistance, you would still be filling out paperwork. Tell us more about the Neptune Café. Do they make you eat cookies until you barf? Do they constantly Pop-Up with directions? Are you required to Plug In at regular intervals to update to get de-bugged?While talking to a girlfriend the other day, she asked about the Neptune. Fill us in, so I can let her in on it’s 
Places to see & go thing.
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Comment #23 posted by Richard Lake on November 01, 2002 at 01:00:24 PT:
Reading your comments
First, Steven Tuck, the writing of the guidelines had nothing to do with you and your thoughts about Marc Emery. I had forgot all about them.FoM asked for help saying that there were too many posts that were off topic and bothering her. I, indeed, a whole lot of folks appreciate her dedication to cannabisnews, so when she asks we try to help.The guidelines were based on those written by Gary Stork and posted at http://www.drugsense.org/dpfwi/list_guidelines.htmFoM approved the guidelines before they were posted.Clearly FoM sees the need for guidelines. If folks want to disrespect her for that, well, perhaps they can just find another forum they are more comfortable with.On the other hand, the guidelines are not locked in stone. If YOU want to rewrite them in a way that still meets the overall goal of having reasonable standards for the discussions here, post what you think would be appropriate so it can be considered!It's funny that folks yell censorship when the lady that does all the work just wants a little respect!I hope you all noted this exchange:Comment #15 posted by FoM on October 31, 2002 at 15:11:59 PT Thank You Dr. Russo and Richard When I started doing Cannabis News I wanted it to be a web site where people would appreciate news about Cannabis to read and learn and hopefully help bring change but not be a place where people nit pick at one another. I get depressed when that happens. When I'm depressed it's hard for me to keep my news focus. I consider Cannabis News in many ways like my home. If anyone came to my home I would expect they would treat me, my husband and home with respect. That's all I want. Comment #14 posted by Ethan Russo MD on October 31, 2002 at 14:57:25 PT:Right On! I vote yes to all. We can do this right, and still really enjoy it.-------So Dr. Russo respects the guidelines. I suspect that there are others that do also. Indeed, there are many times more folks who just get their news here than ever post. Perhaps more would post if the guidelines were followed?OK, as for the suggestion that cannabisnews be moved to some freeserver, lets look at reality.Assuming you could find one that would take this site, what protection could you provide FoM in the legal area? Are you going to set up a 501c3 nonprofit educational foundation so that there is a chance that a fair use argument will work in court. Will the freeserver, as it must, honor the first takedown demand under U.S. law?Since this site is not in the U.S. the ISP thinks the takedown demands received are kind of funny. And they are received.OTOH legal, in writing, demands are made upon DrugSense from time to time because of this site. A superb legal team, working pro bono, and backed by the two best known internet freedom supporting organizations, answers that mail. FoM never even hears about it, and has nothing to worry about.Who is ready to set all that up, to say nothing about finding the huge amount of diskspace, understanding the superb code that makes it all function, having the software that works the code, etc.Perhaps if you think this stuff is so easy, you would like to ask Ron Bennett who wrote the original code, and hosted cannabisnews until he saw it appropriate to ask DrugSense to take it exactly why he thought it an appropriate thing to do.Well, I am trying to be as nice and open as I can. I feel I know FoM well. I have spent many hours on the phone with her. When she writes "When I started doing Cannabis News I wanted it to be a web site where people would appreciate news about Cannabis to read and learn and hopefully help bring change but not be a place where people nit pick at one another. I get depressed when that happens. When I'm depressed it's hard for me to keep my news focus. I consider Cannabis News in many ways like my home. If anyone came to my home I would expect they would treat me, my husband and home with respect. That's all I want." I can feel her hurting because of the reaction of some here.For all those like Dr. Russo who so willingly give FoM that respect, thank you!Richard
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Comment #22 posted by dddd on November 01, 2002 at 00:45:12 PT
...Trick...or...Treat....
....after my collision with the asteroid......my ship drifted thru space for weeks.....the next thing I remember,is waking up at a galactic trauma center near Uranus...It was staffed by Uranian people,who eventually nursed me back to a point where I was able to catch a ride on a shuttle to Neptune,where I found this internet cafe.... I avoided commenting..again and again...'let a sleeping d lie.'....it was not easy......but then,,after reading DdCs superb manifesto,,I could not resist .........the 4d/q/p/b family of commentators,pushed the boundaries of acceptable and proper language, wandered past the point of acceptability with no malicious intent,,but perhaps a slight element of experimental rebellion..The 4dpqb was becoming somewhat notorious for posts that were miles away from topical relevancy,combined with liberal intrusions into areas of "profanity"...I can only imagine the nasty emails that were sent to FoM,concerning the crass and ribald postings from the "4"!..4q will NEVER forget the shock,when trying to post,and getting a "non-registered user" message!...The schizo-quad 4dqpb rooster was offended,embarassed,and discobobulated...The end of an era!...I kinda knew that I was tiptoeing into areas that were out of bounds,,but the suddenness of the occurance left me a bit bewildered,,and it left me asking myself some questions about WHY I comment here,,and WHAT this site is all about,,and IF I should be offended by several deleted posts,(they were real goodies,,,knee slappin' fun!),,,,,,and IF I should feel insulted, and issue some ;"I'll never post here again",ultimatum..........Nope,,,I decided that I would weather the storm,,and adapt to the changes.....However..I WILL leave,if I am forced to eat cookies,or hi-tech banner ads/promotions appear....I hope that a plug-in will never be required to visit here....I am going to stay here on Neptune,with q,and p,and b.....I belong in Outer Space,,,and I like it here.....I say,,"leave CNews like it was.....What's the problem?.....here's the lyrics to White Rabbit......There's nothing wrong with that,,(?),,I hope.White Rabbit
(Grace Slick) One pill makes you larger 
And one pill makes you small, 
And the ones that mother gives you 
Don't do anything at all. 
Go ask Alice 
When she's ten feet tall. 
And if you go chasing rabbits 
And you know you're going to fall, 
Tell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillar 
Has given you the call. 
Call Alice 
When she was just small. 
When the men on the chessboard 
Get up and tell you where to go 
And you've just had some kind of mushroom 
And your mind is moving low. 
Go ask Alice 
I think she'll know. 
When logic and proportion 
Have fallen sloppy dead, 
And the White Knight is talking backwards 
And the Red Queen says "off with her head!" 
Remember what the dormouse said: 
"Feed your head. Feed your head. Feed your head" ...live..from Outer Space......dddd
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Comment #21 posted by FoM on October 31, 2002 at 23:40:53 PT
DdC
Oh gosh I checked back in and saw your post. Thank you. I consider you a long time friend. It was August of 97 we started talking on the the political board. I learned a lot from you and by the way I haven't received any negative email about you since a long time ago and we talked about it. PS: One of the almost drinking times! LOL!Keep on keepin' on! I liked the pic! LOL!
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Comment #20 posted by DdC on October 31, 2002 at 23:32:21 PT
I saw it FoM,smirked,coughed and took another hit!
I was raised a hunter in western Pennsylvania. 20 gauge at 12, 410 over and under at 13 and a 30 30 at 14 when I was old enough to go on the two week deer hunts. Mostly the camps and cabins were filled with Pittsburgh cops. Drunk on their kesters. Laughing and telling jokes and hung over trapsing out into the cold morning to drop a buck. Basically very sportsman minded. Then at 16 the governor found more money in selling out of state license to tourist hunters. paying outrageous prices they were going to get a buck if it meant midnight kills or buying one from a local. More drunks in the woods than deers and it seemed they all had pints of Seagrams 7 in their hunting vests or inside jacket pockets. That was when I became a hippie, gave my guns to my dad and never hunted again. Started smoking cannabis, hitch hiking 30,000 miles seeing the country they were protecting from these "marajuana smokers". Till he died he didn't understand. But always said he respected my decision. Even told me he was "hep" about toking. Though I never got a chance to toke with him, I did turn on some of his hunting buds to buds. Visiting the camp the following summer off season I ran into his neighbors with cabins or visiting. SIt was strange getting off duty cops high.I know what cannabis does. I know what guns do. I respect both. Maybe this propaganda will hit with other rational beings to finally take it over the edge into removing Reefer Mad Fundamentalists Rules. They're desparate. Just shrug at their wickedness to persecute Americans for International profits. Scorn anyone who agrees with them with biting sarcasm. Truth is truth, lies are lies. Those who can't tell the difference shouldn't be carrying weapons. Sheriffs are elected, judges are elected and politico's are elected. Vote em out. Keep em out. Sorry if I offended, but you know me... I was running a co-generation and ammonia refrigeration system having an old x Military boss who would tell me tact was nice but never precise... I guess I at least learned that from him. Classic moments of longhairs and jarheads side by side in the trenches. Like in the early 70's when the generation gap closed a little in the bars with both sides screaming for the Steelers. Now people are seeing the truth of prohibition. The fascism of it all keeping cannabis out of the market and the hidious laws treating Americans like animals. The way the workers are treated and the way the teachers are treated and the way the health care workers are overwhelmed. Seniors warehoused and homeless Vets. We are overcoming adversity FoM. Don't let it bring you down. It's only castles burning! ¶8)Peace, Love and Liberty or the really dumb D.E.A.thDdC
Thanks FoM for all you do, this buds for you! 
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Comment #19 posted by knox42897 on October 31, 2002 at 23:19:50 PT:
CENSORSHIP SUCKS
I AGREEE.
LAS VEGAS NEVADANS FOR RESPOSIBLE LAW ENFORCEMENT IN AMERICA
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Comment #18 posted by Had Enough on October 31, 2002 at 22:41:27 PT
DdC
Thank You.
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Comment #17 posted by FoM on October 31, 2002 at 22:36:37 PT
Just a Comment
Thank you all for saying how you feel. I'm not commenting just reading and trying to absorb what is being said and why.Now apart from that I saw the most horrible commercial on tv tonight. When you see it if they dare show it again you will be very upset too.It was two boys in a room like a den and one was behind a desk and the other one was smoking a bong in a chair. They were generally wasting time but to sum up what upset me in the end the one boy picks up a gun and the gun goes off accidentially and implied he shot his friend because he was smoking marijuana and didn't have his facilities about him. Wait til you see it.I'm done for the day. I'm really tired. 
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Comment #16 posted by DdC on October 31, 2002 at 22:16:28 PT
I decided long ago...
When in early 97 many boards decided to censor off cannabis talk or direct it out of the mainstream. I've been ask many times to curtail my post here and admittingly some are long. Unlike the Conservatives and Cops censoring to win debates, FoM has always notified me of her decisions. I never agreed but I respected them. The point being she was straight up about it and always gives every single individual respect.Some politicals don't want certain aspects brought up and others get headaches from anything besides bong talk. Notices like these are probably more geared for the Military, and Richard feels comfortable issuing them as a way of organizing and making the best we can make out of this terrible situation. I have no doubts about Richards loyalty from many years of service he's provided. And from many post he's made. I certainly don't agree with them all or with Hairy Brownites or the Repo-crats or even the Environmental Protection rackets shunning hemp for Klintoon Correctness and Insanity repeated. But we all have to put down our personal grievances and come together to stop this Fascism. And make no mistake it is Fascism.We all have a stake in this country and war on cannabis. I think that is the most important point. What is behind the meaning of the post. To disrupt or ad hominem individuals? Then I agree it doesn't belong here, its disruptive and avoids the truth. I'm not military prone, I'm an anit-war Vet. But I have respect for all walks of life, believe it or not even jar head cops. I was a tad offended by the notices, and thought it strange my http://www.spankbush.com post the pieman sent was deleted. But so be it I moved on...I won't second guess my post for PC fitness. I won't change one iota of content and if vulgarity is apropriate then so be it. I'll post the "news" as it happens. Delete away if you have to. I bring info that is truthful to the best of my ability to find out so. And if my info gets deleted no one will blame me for not giving it. I've tried to address the issue of us being above the Fascist censors, trying to pass Senate Bills censoring us from cannabis talks and giving info. I find it leaves a very bad taste. Thats why any board I am directer of isn't censored for content.But this is not a public board. Its a private board. I believe politics is a lie and censoring pertenent info makes the complete statement one is making a lie. Denies the individual their perspective and caters to the PC crowd maintaining disfunction. But I will not let those who make the choice to censor fray me from anything. After trying to scrutinize my responses for repeats or dead links I post them. Some may find some of it off topic, but I say it applies or backs up the point I'm making or I wouldn't include it in the first place. It is no one elses business to inturpret it by censoring what they deem not fitting. Thats Freedom. Thats also why most Americans prefer to follow blindly, prohibit unrationally and unquestionally believe others. Freedom means responsibility for your actions. In reality I've found speaking out will get you raises at work, while others believe it will get you fired. Only if it gets to an upperhanded fascist point from no one ever speaking out. Tyranny won't stop with politeness. So as for this board, I will post my replies and if they are censored no one will read them. Unless they write me and ask. But its not my doing. Its not my karma taking on the decision to co-dependent the public. FoM used to receive a lot of email complaining about my lengthy post and hates censoring but feels she is responsible for the board. It is also under the management of MAP Inc who chooses not to allow responses to the articles they post. Though the job they have done making an arsenal of info available is beyond question. I receive a lot of email thanking me for the info I post. I won't ever try and please the public or hold back the truth for political rightness or bow down to titles. I respect all living creatures regardless of bank statements or initials. I still Love, Apreciate and Respect FoM for her choices, dedication and commitment and don't have a problem with Richards S.O.P.'s. Though I would say they are off topic and probably redundent. ¶8)Peace, Love and Liberty or Fascist D.E.A.th...DdCAt a time like this, scorching irony, not convincing argument, is needed. O! Had I the ability, and could reach the nation's ear, I would today, pour out a fiery stream of biting ridicule, blasting reproach, withering sarcasm, and stern rebuke. For it is not light that is needed, but fire;
 it is not the gentle shower, but thunder. We need the storm, the whirlwind, the earthquake. The feeling of the nation must be quickened; the conscience of the nation must be roused; the propriety of the nation must be startled; the hypocrisy of the nation must be exposed; its crimes against God and man must be proclaimed and denounced.              -- Frederick DouglassWe can have justice whenever those who have not been injured by injustice are as outraged by it as those who have been.
--Solon (594 B.C.)"Certain American industrialists had a great deal to do with bringing fascist regimes into being in both Germany and Italy. They extended aid to help Fascism occupy the seat of power, and they are helping to keep it there." - William E. Dodd, U.S. Ambassador to Germany, 1937. Continued... http://www.sumeria.net/politics/shadv3.htmlD.E.A.th Deceptions
http://www.angelfire.com/ca7/ddc/DEAth.htmlU.S.Al Qaeda!
http://www.cannabinoid.com/boards/politics/media/39/39670.gifThugczar Wally
http://www.cannabinoid.com/boards/politics/media/35/35838.gif
Liberty Censored...
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Comment #15 posted by herbdoc215 on October 31, 2002 at 21:29:50 PT
FoM, sorry if I sounded rude but I'm upset
I also should have been more pointed about comments being to Mr. Lake, as I feel like his 'rules' were a not so very subtle response/dig to me for my pointing out my problems with Mr. Emery the other day and if thats all thats the problem, then this hassle is pointless as I'll leave "you know who" alone here as I had already said I would. I am putting my website back up as a vehicle to free expression and I'll put me up a little soapbox in the corner there to get on and leave you be, but for God's sake don't ruin a good thing for it. I believe it's about time to shake the can up with a little truth and see were the dice fall as these secret agent games have only justified more police oppression in my opinion. Transparancy and truth are our only shield and I'll be damn if I intend to throw mine away and follow every sophist with a 'plan' who has managed to con some millionare into bankrolling a web site and every hair brained scheme they can cook off. I for one am tired of all the career 'activist' who have somehow managed to spin this into a nice cushy life paying handsomely, and safe? Real lives are at stake not numbers, not slogans, but pain is not a commodity. Not the lawyers, not the doctors, not the police, not the lawmakers, not the rehab owners/staff, now it seems not even our side can say we no longer have a vested financial intrest in maintaining the status quo of prohibition. It seems that for those not in pain that time just flies by nicely while they march merrily to Washington and a big corner office, and a big nice suit job smoking big nice suit weed, oh excuse me I forgot Mr. Kampia doesn't smoke weed? 
        Just a (im)patient, Steven Tuck
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Comment #14 posted by Patrick on October 31, 2002 at 21:06:20 PT
the only side here i think...
...is the side of cannabis.this doesn't sound like much at first but it means everything to those that know that cannabis must be free to be grown and used by those that know and understand its purpose without the fear of Persecution from the prohibitionistic power elite that have hijacked this country for the past 70 years or so. cannabisnews.com ought to be cannabisnews.info if there any change is needed here.
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Comment #13 posted by DANA on October 31, 2002 at 20:52:24 PT
...I dont like to take sides....
...BUT....if I did,,,I would sway heavily towards the herbdoc215 point of view. Steven Tuck said some things that needed to be said..perhaps a bit harsh,,,but well said...I'll always be here......be careful not to lose what we have here......one persons upgrade,can be another persons bringdown...I dont like the idea of this site being percieved as some sort of 'product',,...this site is what it is,because of the way it is.....It would be wise to carefully consider alterations.....I dont think that there are many people who visit,and comment here,,who were unhappy with the way things are/were...In fact,I dont remember seeing any complaints from the commenting family....(?)...d
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Comment #12 posted by lookinside on October 31, 2002 at 20:30:40 PT
Truth
FoM: Steve's words ring true to me. You've always had the option of deleting those posts you found objectionable.To inhibit honest discussion of real issues is to lose the focus of this site.Through hard experience I've found many within the movement who cannot be trusted. Just like any other group of human beings. That does not mean I would not welcome them as allies. We need all the help we can get. I just wouldn't loan them 10 bucks.I've learned alot reading at this site.On many occasions I've posted in anger(Rainbow Farms comes to mind). I've appreciated being able to vent someplace where the other posters understood the issues involved.I now must wonder if part of the information and opinion that has become such a passionate part of my life is being withheld from me.I hope not.
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Comment #11 posted by Patrick on October 31, 2002 at 20:20:28 PT
Censorship sucks...
and there is utterly no reason you can justify it," just to quote herbdoc215 and the 1st Amendment, but then again this website isn't the US Government and can pretty much do whatever the hell it wants to.my frickin opinion.
Patrick
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Comment #10 posted by goneposthole on October 31, 2002 at 19:50:05 PT
bits, bridles and blinders 
are for horses, not contributors to Cannabisnews.Way to go herbdoc 215
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Comment #9 posted by herbdoc215 on October 31, 2002 at 19:02:09 PT:
This site was special because of what u want to
stop! We could speak adultly and frankly about these issues without all of your 'authoritarian' rules and spin which we have been subjected to all our lives. I personally will think long and hard before posting or visiting this site again, since it seems to have become just another vehicle for fund raising for more quixiotic elections, without any follow through on securing past gains. In my opinion letting Kampia blanket post all forums pleading for money for an election that would be over before the checks arrived, was very tasteless. Thats why we were all here instead of at Kampia's or your site, we have formed a community of users who up to a few weeks ago felt like we were very isolated into our little corner of the internet. Everything you asked for in those rules screams we are to ignore all bad of our side, support whatever our 'betters' tell us too and keep our wallets open and our mouths tighly shut, please. Well if thats what you and your organization represent then I for one want no part of it and I'm willing to bet I'll not be alone before long in my feelings. Censorship sucks and there is utterly no reason you can justify it, in taking this tack all you will accomplish is turning our movement into the very people we intend to turn out of office. Status quo maintained, check payee's changed is all. If it was people who were flaming others without giving their names or such it would be different, but as long as we are led to believe that hiding truth will help us we are already screwed, as freedom has nothing to fear from the truth! FoM if it's just about money and server fees then we would gladly serve this page for you, rule free except for those YOU want to apply. Nazi US laws passed post 9/11 carry no weight here in Canada as they are seeing US clearer everyday. Peace, Steven TuckPeace, Steven Tuck 
http://www.thevictimfiles.com
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Comment #8 posted by Richard Lake on October 31, 2002 at 17:42:01 PT:
Note
West coast medical cannabis activists and lawyers for patients are recommending that patients and concerned folks put the appeals court document in the hands of doctors and their organizations. The concurrence by Judge Kozinski is filled with examples of why doctors should be able to recommend cannabis when appropriate, links to websites, and quotes from doctors and patients.The opinion is now a webpage at http://www.mapinc.org/conantvswalters.htm Just Judge Kozinski's concurring opinion is at http://www.mapinc.org/kozinski.htm and the entire document as a high quality printable .pdf file (34 pages, 78k) - an exact copy of the document provided by the court - is at http://www.mapinc.org/conantvwalters.pdfThanks to Debra Harper of the Drug Policy Central Web Design, Hosting and Internet Services team http://www.drugpolicycentral.com/hosting/ for creating the pages.
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Comment #7 posted by goneposthole on October 31, 2002 at 16:57:29 PT
Only if you are terminally ill
and know that you are going to die will you be able to feel the weight of your predicament.Anyone who forcefully denies you your options for relief in some way from all of the pain and misery is not serving your best interests, whatever they may be for you. To be able to feel better is going to be high on the list. Not much else is going to matter. Their well-intentioned narrow dogma will be of no heip to someone in pain. Fools go where angels fear to tread. The road to hell is paved with good intentions; good intentions are just clearing a path for the waves of prohibitionists who will most certainly meet a fate that will be one big surprise for them.Such dogmatic gobbledygook belongs on the trash heap of lies and propaganda that have been promulgated far too long.It's medicine, and the terminally ill can use it if they want. 
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Comment #6 posted by Richard Lake on October 31, 2002 at 15:03:12 PT:
About the guidelines, etc.
Friends,The guidelines were developed thru discussion between FoM and myself, and are based on wording used by the list managers of many of the DrugSense email lists.FoM believed there was a need for clearer guidelines than just the note at the bottom of the page. We will link the guidelines in to the homepage when Matt Elrod has a chance (he is the only guy around who understands the code that keeps this whole thing running).The need for FoM to delete more off topic posts led to the guidelines. She spends her days keeping this thing going, getting to know you all personally, and selecting the stories she believes you will most want to read and comment on. Please give her a break, 'cause she makes it happen.The guidelines reflect what has always been the goal of Cannabis News. They are not designed to say that it would be inappropriate to say something about Bill Maher and something he is doing, for example. The guy is on our side!On the other hand, posting links to sites that clearly promote drug use could, in the end, bring this whole effort down. Folks who donate to support the costs seldom approve of promoting drug use, but they do support changing policies or laws. So if you wish this site to go away, well....Friends, the concern for the funding to support this and some 80 other websites hosted by DrugSense is real. Because, I suspect, of the drive to support initiatives like in Nevada, and other funding requests, the sustaining donations from folks like you are down this year substantially from the amounts received last year.We must raise at least $30,000 to keep everything running until major funding grants come in towards the end of the first quarter of next year. We have put a graphic showing the progress towards that goal at http://www.drugsense.org/As you can see, we have past the $5,000 mark in just a couple of weeks, but we still have a good way to go.Cannabis News is the most popular cannabis specific news clipping site on the web, bar none. It is also a HUGE site, and thus more costly than many to support.I have not asked FoM if we could put the Donations Thermometer graphic on the Cannabis News homepage, but perhaps I should. Would you all who use this service object?Bottom Line: It is not the intent of the guidelines to change the character of Cannabis News in any substantial way.Richard
Click this link if you can help keep CNEWS going!
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Comment #5 posted by Richard Lake on October 31, 2002 at 14:58:15 PT:
CANNABIS NEWS POSTING GUIDELINES
CANNABIS NEWS POSTING GUIDELINES:Please stay on topic. Drug policy issues only with an emphasis on cannabis issues.Always ask yourself if it will benefit the discussion before posting a message.No links to websites or pages which are offensive or advocate drug use rather than drug policy reform.No personal attacks or put-downs. If you must correct the rule should be criticize in private praise in public.No ad hominem or personal attacks on drug policy reform individuals or organizations.We expect vigerous but civil discussion of the issues raised by the news items posted here. But we also expect the discussion to be respectful of a wide range of opinions.No soliciting of funds or advertising without the permission.Do not post a private message from someone else to cannabisnews without their express knowledge and approval.The consequences for violating these guidelines may range from a simple reminder or deletion of your post, to blocking your access to this website. FoM and DrugSense managers will make final decisions.
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Comment #4 posted by FoM on October 31, 2002 at 14:49:39 PT
Here's the Link
Is this the one you are referring too?http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5451
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Comment #3 posted by p4me on October 31, 2002 at 14:31:20 PT
Reform is becoming a bigger snowball
This is welcome news, said Dr. Marvin Trotter, with the Mendocino County Public Health Department.I think it is important to note that this is from the Ukiah paper in Mendocino County, the most cannabis friendly county in the United States. I especially liked the part of this article that said that there were plenty of medicines that get prescribed and used that have side effects.They demonize cannabis on such a level that for some reason the FDA has a complete different set of rules. The idea that their are side effects and that makes cannabis unacceptable is just more prohibitionist nonsense. The definition of medicine used at the FDA basically calls a substance medicine if it is just better than nothing except with marijuana. They act like because it cannot cure the common cold in addition to what it can do,is a reson to say it is not medicine. And then they are allowed to put forth the nonsensical idea that, well you might could use marijuana if the pill companies don't have an alternative. How did the press ever let that nonsense survive much less prosper?The ruling cited in comment1 is very encouraging. Maybe the unique barriers set up for cannabis are being removed. It is well passed time.I remember last year everyone thought that the year-end reviews of cannabis reform were all but monumental. This year would certainly record a bigger snowball rolling at a faster speed. And one improvement is we didn't have a human hunting expedition like at Rainbow Farms in 2001.I want to comment on one thing that I thought would happen but hasn't. You remember that invention that was invention of the year in 2001- the scooter that could not fall over and woulkd revolutionize urban travel? I thought people would be driving them around the courthouses and halls of government in some number by now. I thought ther would be small companies of seniors scootering around demanding reform.I still say, cannabis will find the pain. Let's change these laws and the politicians that they rode up on.1
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Comment #2 posted by Ethan Russo MD on October 31, 2002 at 14:30:11 PT:
Right You Are, TM
This statement should greatly help the case of Angel McClary and the other plaintiffs who are bringing suit on just that basis. After the 9th Circuit, it's a straight shot to the Supremes. What are they going to do?
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Comment #1 posted by TroutMask on October 31, 2002 at 13:57:44 PT
Check this out!
From today's NORML WPR:In his concurring opinion, Justice Alex Kozinski said the government's policy threatens to deny patients "information critical to their well-being." Kozinski also noted that locally grown medical marijuana "does not have any direct or obvious effect on interstate commerce;" therefore, federal efforts to prohibit it exceed Congress' power under 
the Commerce Clause of the Constitution.----Did you read that!?!?!?!? "locally grown medical marijuana "does not have any direct or obvious effect on interstate commerce;" therefore, federal efforts to prohibit it exceed Congress' power under the Commerce Clause of the Constitution"That's the argument that is going to the courts soon and we have one of the judges pretty much already stating that the plaintiffs are right! The government has no right to control marijuana (e.g., ANY drug) that is produced in a state and remains in that state. This has HUGE implications!!!!-TM
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