cannabisnews.com: Proposed Marijuana Tax Prompts Debate





Proposed Marijuana Tax Prompts Debate
Posted by CN Staff on October 17, 2002 at 11:48:24 PT
By Timothy Pratt 
Source: Las Vegas Sun 
A University of Nevada, Las Vegas study estimating that nearly $29 million in taxes could enter the state's coffers from the legal sale of marijuana brought mixed reactions Wednesday.Some said the federal government would never allow the state to charge the tax in the first place, while others said the money would be a welcome windfall amid a budget shortfall.
The study, released Wednesday, estimated the state could collect $28.6 million a year by taxing the sale of marijuana, as proposed in Question 9 on the November election ballot.Sandy Heverly, executive director for Stop DUI, said she doesn't think such a tax would be possible."Given that it's against federal law to grow and sell marijuana, and federal law supersedes state law ... this seems to be a moot issue," she said.Washoe County District Attorney Richard Gammick agreed. "It ain't going to happen," he said.Liz Moore, Southern Nevada coordinator for the Progressive Leadership Alliance of Nevada, said a vote in favor of the proposal would be a vote against federal policy."If the vote shows that federal law is out of sync with the people, then that raises a serious question -- and a lot of 'Drug War' laws are not a picture of what people think," she said.Carole Vilardo, president of the Nevada Taxpayers Association, said her organization had considered the possibility of taxing marijuana before the study was released."The only position the association has had is that if in fact the voters were to pass this, we would have to be able to tax the marijuana sold," she said.Vilardo added that $28.6 million represents about 7 percent of the state's budget shortfall, which is greater than $300 million."So this is the proverbial nothing to sneeze at," she said.Assemblywoman Chris Giunchigliani, D-Las Vegas, who supports the initiative, said the tax revenue could be used for social programs."Now it's up to the voters to decide what they want -- the money to be given to the drug dealers, or to funding rehabilitation programs, education, long-term care for seniors and other programs that the state needs," she said.Nevadans for Responsible Law Enforcement, the organization behind the question, paid $5,000 to the Center for Business and Economic Research at UNLV to do the study. The results were based on an estimate of 75,000 regular users in the state.The study estimates the average cost of an ounce at $250, with total sales at $92.2 million.Gammick said he expects the Drug Enforcement Administration would crack down in Nevada if the initiative passes.Legalizing marijuana would increase medical costs, Gammick said. In Amsterdam, the medical costs "skyrocketed" after marijuana was made legal, he said.But Billy Rogers, head of Nevadans for Responsible Law Enforcement, says the state concluded there would be "no adverse fiscal impact" if Question 9 is passed. That analysis was prepared by Secretary of State Dean Heller.The proposal, which must be passed in November and again in 2004 before taking effect, would permit the state to license stores to sell the drug and to impose a tax.The proposed tax would be the same as the one on tobacco products other than cigarettes, which is about three times higher than the tax on cigarettes.Keith Schwer, director of the business center, said this was one of the most unusual studies he has been involved in."The only thing that rivals this is a study we were asked to do on the economic impact of a Grateful Dead concert," he said."I guess we've come full circle."Note: Promise of more revenue for state attracts interest in pot.Source: Las Vegas Sun (NV)Author: Timothy Pratt Published: October 17, 2002Copyright: 2002 Las Vegas Sun, Inc.Contact: letters lasvegassun.comWebsite: http://www.lasvegassun.com/Related Articles & Web Sites:NRLEhttp://www.nrle.org/Marijuana Policy Projecthttp://www.mpp.org/Marijuana Tax Worth $28.6 Million, Study Sayshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread14468.shtmlQuestion 9: Figures Hazy, Ad Sayshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread14460.shtmlAn 'Out-of-State' Campaign http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread14448.shtml
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Comment #15 posted by Trystan on October 21, 2002 at 05:48:24 PT
Federal jurisdiction
 Whether federal law supercedes state law depends on what area the law is in. Federal law has no jurisdiction in in-state matters. The constitution gives the federal government specific powers in specific areas. Congress may try to make laws otherwise and even have people believe that they are legal laws but, they could be declared unconstitutional if the Supreme Court decides so.  I remember reading about a certain agriculture crop which for the life of me I can't remember what, when or where. But the feds tried to make laws controlling it based on the interstate commerce section (alot of laws are based on this section of the Constitution), and they were deemed unconstitutional because the crop in question didn't need to be shipped out of state.  So, in theory, if a state grows hemp in state and never exports it out of state, the feds couldn't techniquely say anything about it.  Although, since the American people are now brainwashed into thinking the Feds have the sole power in the USA (thanks to public schools), I doubt it would be a big issue.
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Comment #14 posted by FoM on October 18, 2002 at 09:48:46 PT
p4me
Would you post the pictures on our thread over at -- http://www.cannabis.com I would love to see them and have fun. http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/message.shtml?2x3054
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Comment #13 posted by p4me on October 18, 2002 at 03:28:35 PT
FoM
On the Rottweiler question about a website, the answer is no. I think I am going to take a camera down and take some pictures and put them up on the web for him. I could have gone to Amsterdam for a week for $1100 for the World show in August but then my Mj expenses would have run pretty high also. My friend is the business manager for the national Rottweiler people and he studies German and has several dogs from Germany. Have you ever heard the word pronounced "Fooey"? That means no in German and that is the way he speaks to his dogs and they all have German names on their papers. Sitz is for sit and plotz is the word for lay down.It might be somewhat relevant to mention because it addresses a situation of limited resources that in Germany a person has to pay about $2500 a year to keep a dog. Most people there would not have but one or two dogs and if they want a better one they do not have a good market to sell there old one. He recently bought a young dog with an excellent blood line for $1000 because of this lack of market in Germany and he must have 20 dogs around the country.The Germans cut the Rottweillers tail so that the Romans and others could not grab their tail when the dogs attacked them. It just proves that the traditions and culture of war are very enduring. If you do a search for "Mt. Ulla Rottweiler" it will tell you about the show that starts in a couple of hours. The typing skills I have developed from commenting at Cnews got me a job of typing the judges evalution tomorrow and Sunday, not that it is relevant to the real national problems at hand.Well, it is time to load of some wood and grab the camera. Without even one lousy joint no matter how good of day it is, it will be very lacking. I don't like this fascist view of freedom and there will some words against it today. It is really sad. If the world had any sense they wouldn't buy American products and the ascention of the Linux platform in itself is going to cost the US billions. We really have become the evil empire DANA talks about.1
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Comment #12 posted by karkulus on October 17, 2002 at 22:46:47 PT
I think I'm right ,Nasarius...
Just because they try to put it in the context of "the commerce clause" ,(which ,by the spirit of the law ,is meant to facilitate commerce, not cramp it) doesn't mean it's legit..Then what of the 9th and 10th amend's ?? you can say the Bill of Rights is redundant (other than the 20 dollar thing etc.) but "supreme law of the land" is to be within the confines of Article 1,section 8..I think you're toeing the "pseudo-technical " line the Supreme Court toes..
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Comment #11 posted by John Tyler on October 17, 2002 at 21:59:31 PT
The scent of money
Once the politicians get the scent of money in their noses, they will want it. Money is power, and power is their drug. The prohibitionist and their shrill arguments will be conveniently swept aside.
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Comment #10 posted by mayan on October 17, 2002 at 18:31:22 PT
Oh, My God!!!
Unrelated...I totally freaked when I just read this! Woman Fatally Shot in Head in Va. 
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=514&ncid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20021015/ap_on_re_us/sniper_shootings_181from the article:"Authorities in Baltimore, meanwhile, seized a white van and found an assault rifle, sniper manual and ammunition similar to the .223 bullets used in attacks that have killed eight people and wounded two others, WBAL-TV reported. MSNBC reported that a tarot card was found in the van and a sign on the dashboard read "Gihad in America." A tarot card was also found at one of the shootings. The van's owner was questioned Monday night by police and released with no charges filed."What is the deal here??? 
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Comment #9 posted by mayan on October 17, 2002 at 18:24:22 PT
Legal?
Legalizing marijuana would increase medical costs, Gammick said. In Amsterdam, the medical costs "skyrocketed" after marijuana was made legal, he said.I doubt if Gammick did a lick of research. Marijuana has not been made "legal" in Amsterdam. It is still technically illegal but the cops there just look the other way. Cops here in the states are to lazy to put down their donuts & fight real crime.unrelated -Teach-In: The truth about 9/11, The U.S. Drive for World Domination and Domestic Repression - Saturday, October 26
http://www.911pi.com/teach-in.htmMore 9/11 events(scroll down to "Every Wednesday")
http://www.communitycurrency.org/events.htmlThe Peoples Invetigation of 9/11:
http://www.911pi.com/Stop war on Iraq before it starts: October 26 - National March on Washington
http://www.internationalanswer.org/ACLU Acts Against Patriot Act:
http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0%2C2100%2C55838%2C00.html
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Comment #8 posted by afterburner on October 17, 2002 at 18:07:54 PT:
Treaties Are a Circular Argument!
The Marijuana Tax Act was passed in 1937, 24 years before the first UN treaty, the 1961 Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs. The federal prohibition is not based on the UN treaties, regardless of federal propaganda to the contrary. The Feds overstepped their Constitutional authority, then bullied other countries to sign UN treaties. Then they use the UN treaties as justification for the federal authority. This is circular reasoning."The Obligations of the UK Government under the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs 1961. There is an 'urban myth' propagated by spinned-out Government Ministers, ignorant drug policy 'experts' and lazy journalists, that Britain's supposed 'obligations' under the Single Convention prevents the government from legalising cannabis (or other drugs).In fact the Single Convention places no obligation on any signatory to make possession, production or distribution of any drug for personal use a criminal offense. This has always been accepted as at least a permissible interpretation by the United Nations itself, as the official commentary on the Convention makes clear. ('Commentary on the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs', 1961, United Nations, New York, 1973.)"
INTERNATIONAL DRUG TREATIES
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Comment #7 posted by Had Enough on October 17, 2002 at 18:07:11 PT
Money (taxes) Signs of Change
This part of the debate has been a long time coming. When you start talking money, people, even politicians listen. That greed for money, which in turn means power, is another weapon that can be used. In this way too long of a fight for change, it’s about time this type of armament is being used in this battle. Fight fire with fire. Politicians/bureaucrats just love collecting taxes. Just the thought of more tax money will change the way many of these people talk to their constituents. Imagine that, them a work’in for you. Signs, Signs, everywhere there’s a sign, signs of change.VOTE VOTE VOTEDo not forget our friends at http://www.nrle.org  They are very serious and are doing a professional job. They need money, a lot of it and now. Send them anything. Every bit helps. The time is here to do our part.Nevada is taking a big step for man, and huge gigantic leaps, bounds, and cartwheels for mankind.
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Comment #6 posted by Nasarius on October 17, 2002 at 16:15:58 PT
karkulus...
Simply put, you're wrong.You will find in Article VI:
"This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." (emphasis mine)It's called preemption, and it's why the DEA can legally do what it's doing in California.I would also like to see how medical costs in Amsterdam "skyrocketed", and what kind of logic it takes to see that (if it did indeed happen) as a direct cause of legalization.
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Comment #5 posted by FoM on October 17, 2002 at 15:38:56 PT
p4me
Off topic but does your friend with the Rotts have a web site I could look at? 
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Comment #4 posted by The GCW on October 17, 2002 at 15:36:41 PT
Do they tax prostitution services?
The Feds allow taxes for gambling...If the Feds don't want the tax, then don't give it to them.  
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Comment #3 posted by p4me on October 17, 2002 at 15:35:24 PT
Stuff
There is an article below this talking about $29 million Nevada state government may pick up if marijuana is legal and taxes are collected. There was an article today about the UK fining people people 500 pounds for burning vegetable oil instead of petroleum. These people were beating the government out of the big fuel taxes they collect. The power of cheese isn't squat compared to the power of money.You know how the old expression, "Err on the side of caution." You would think that by now someone should have said on at least one of the many aspects of cannabis that we should err on the side of freedom. Maybe with MMJ someone should say we should err on the side of compassion. I know it is rhetorical because it would be no error at all to legalize cannabis and develop the best medicines and delivery system needed for the sick. You know an expression I haven't heard in ages is, "You would have thought I had committed a federal crime." Thirty and forty years ago it was rather popular and you even hear it on television. Of course now almost everything is a federal crime and the idea of reserving federal charges to only the most serious crimes belong to days gone by. You cannot even say, "Busch is a dickhead" without violating the Patriot Act, even if it is unconstitional. Voting started today for the November 5th election. You can go downtown and vote from now until Saturday, November 3rd which is a great thing. It is almost like government is being responsive. I went down and got a sample ballot so I know who to vote against.Doreen Miller wrote a nice piece for Yellowtimes called, "The lies we are told": http://www.yellowtimes.org/article.php?sid=628I emailed her because I respected her work on that particular piece and because if she wrote anything about the new Fascist Democracy that employs "The Largest Minority Rule" at Yellowtimes, it could be freely circulated. I got a response from Ms. Miller and I would like to copy it. This largest Minority Rule thing has got to change. You would think that something this vile and freedom robbing of the majority of voters would be unconstitutional. It should be in my opinion because it locks out reform parties very effectively. Ms. Miller's response follows:I hear you loud and clear about our pseudo democracy. I picked up a book at the local library about the different voting systems used in democracies around the world. I am particulary interested in what is called Proportional representation (which they have in Germany and I 
believe Sweden.) I'll see what I can put together for the upcoming pseudo-democratic elections here in November where no doubt the (much less than 50%) voting public who even bother to venture out will basically be given a choice between the corporate-sponsored democrats or the more heavily corporate-sponsored republicans. It's a virtual one-party system masquerading as two. No matter who gets in, things never really change, except to say they definitely appear to become worse under the republicans (at least for the working folk - the businesses and rich 
guys love it!)Thanks for writing. Doreen1
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Comment #2 posted by karkulus on October 17, 2002 at 14:29:04 PT
That's why we have States!
Federal law does not Supercede state law except for National Defense and Postal operations,etc . (and national defense does not include drugs,since they had drugs back then,as well!) Download the Constitutation and lot's of other good stuff at "Project Gutenberg",check it out for yourself!   
http://www.gutenberg.net/
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Comment #1 posted by Ethan Russo MD on October 17, 2002 at 12:14:34 PT:
Prove It!
"Legalizing marijuana would increase medical costs, Gammick said. In Amsterdam, the medical costs "skyrocketed" after marijuana was made legal, he said."Yeah, I'd like to see one shred of information that supports this myth.BTW, the impact of a Grateful Dead concert is a lot of happy people and local merchants. Too bad that there is a sin tax against emotional well-being in this society.
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