cannabisnews.com: Pot Use Brings Red Tape Pot Use Brings Red Tape Posted by CN Staff on October 17, 2002 at 08:32:07 PT By Doug Mattson Source: The Union Eleven years ago, Clarence Johnson was convicted of drunken driving. It was his last rub with the law, he said, and he hasn't had a driver's license since. Now, to help his wife's business, he's trying to get behind the wheel again. The state Department of Motor Vehicles first requires counseling so he started the 18-month program last spring with Community Recovery Resources in Grass Valley. His problems began early on, he said, after he disclosed that he had a medical marijuana recommendation. He smokes at least a joint a day, usually before bed, to combat back pain, arthritis and pain from a crushed ankle. At 60, the former machinist is a sinewy figure with salted hair and tinted glasses. On the porch of his Grass Valley-area home, he smoked - cigarettes - and gestured with meaty fingers as he described what he called persecution. "Well, yeah, I do cannabis," he recalled telling workers at CRR, formerly Nevada County Substance Abuse Treatment and Recovery. "And they kicked me out - 'We don't need you here.'" Johnson and his wife, Lynda, an upholstery business owner, accuse the agency and its executive director, Warren Daniels, of breaking the law. Among less than a handful of CRR clients in a similar predicament, they've taken the issue to lawmakers and state officials. It turns out Nevada County is California's only county with such a dispute, according to the state Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs. Daniels says he's only looking out for the sobriety of his roughly 480 clients who take driving-under-the-influence classes in Grass Valley and Truckee. He supports "the spirit" of the Compassionate Use Act, which California voters passed in 1996. It's his personal view that drugs should be legalized so they can be regulated. But the unpredictability of marijuana dosages concern him, he said. Different pot plants yield different levels of THC, the active drug in marijuana. Without known dosages, he said, he can't gauge a client's cognitive skills or progress in recovery. "If a doctor were to say, 'One joint of marijuana every four hours,' one joint every four hours of what?" he said. CRR adopted its policy in July, after a discussion among counselors. "One of my clinicians said, 'Half my group is on medical marijuana, and it's totally screwing up the group,'" Daniels said. The apparent referee in this matter, the state Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs, said the matter is under review. A policy decision could be reached this month. "This has become an issue recently, and it's a complex issue," said Les Johnson, acting deputy director. Meanwhile, Clarence Johnson mostly stays home. He could have completed four or five months of classes by now, he said, if he'd only lied on the CRR questionnaire. The treatment center gave him the option of taking a prescribed pain reliever, an offer he rejected. "I don't like taking pills. I kind of worry about my liver and stuff. It's not good for your system," he said. He shrugged off his cigarette habit. "You're only going to live as long as you live. I'm not afraid of death," Johnson said. After getting nowhere in their battle with CRR, the Johnsons called Penn Valley-area marijuana activist Martin Webb. Webb accused Daniels of making policy without any medical expertise. "He's either not up on the research, or he's willfully ignorant of the facts," he said. The two are scheduled to debate at noon today on KVMR-FM radio. They've never met before, but Webb's claims hinge largely on correspondence between Daniels and the state Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs. In July, the agency told Daniels to begin admitting legal marijuana users so long as they remain attentive. The department also told CRR it was out of compliance with state regulations. Daniels wrote back, saying CRR would ignore the letter, pending further consideration. He also sent a copy to the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency, a move scorned by Webb. The DEA's inclusion, Webb said, suggests Daniels is seeking leverage from federal law, which doesn't recognize marijuana for medicinal use. The state Supreme Court, however, recently took an opposite view. "He obviously feels this is something the community cannot resolve, and he is going outside the community," Webb said. Replied Daniels: "I'm willing to use whatever avenue I can to get somebody to listen to me. As it turned out, I did get somebody to listen to me." Webb also accused Daniels of lacking medical expertise to make such policy and scrutinized his claim that marijuana is a hallucinogen. In response, Daniels said he smoked marijuana for 27 years before turning sober, and he's since earned a college degree and numerous certificates in counseling. Quietly watching this debate is the county Department of Behavioral Health Services. The department doesn't fund CRR's DUI program and isn't a program regulator, but it does designate the agency that handles the program. "Certainly it's open to interpretation," said Doug Bond, Behavioral Health program chief. "You have federal law versus state law." Note: User of medical marijuana can't regain his driver's license.Newshawk: The C-I-R-C-L-ESource: Union, The (CA)Author: Doug MattsonPublished: October 17, 2002Copyright: 2002 Nevada County Publishing CompanyContact: letters theunion.comWebsite: http://www.theunion.com/KVMR-FMhttp://www.kvmr.org/Medicinal Cannabis Research Linkshttp://freedomtoexhale.com/research.htmCannabisNews Medical Marijuana Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/medical.shtml Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help Comment #21 posted by FoM on October 17, 2002 at 20:56:38 PT The C-I-R-C-L-E Thanks for the update and go for it! [ Post Comment ] Comment #20 posted by The C-I-R-C-L-E on October 17, 2002 at 20:51:56 PT State Backs Down I received a call earlier saying that now the state is backing down from requiring Mr. Daniels to admit cannabis patients. A lawsuit is going to be brought against him. Stay tuned... [ Post Comment ] Comment #19 posted by FoM on October 17, 2002 at 20:33:41 PT The C-I-R-C-L-E You did a really good job. That had to be hard. I got upset listening to him. If being drug free makes a person like him well what can I say? Maybe party on! Just kidding but he was so depressing and just calling him a boob was kind of you. [ Post Comment ] Comment #18 posted by The C-I-R-C-L-E on October 17, 2002 at 18:40:55 PT Whew! Thanks for the support and kind words. The guy was a boob and it was quite frustrating. But he did take the copy of Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts that I gave him.Truth is on our side!Peace, Martin The Cannabis Information Resource Center Legally Entitled [ Post Comment ] Comment #17 posted by FoM on October 17, 2002 at 13:54:04 PT Dr. Russo I don't know where he has been but hope he will drop in soon. [ Post Comment ] Comment #16 posted by druid on October 17, 2002 at 13:53:38 PT: DankHank I too had that question on my mind and it went unanswered afaik. I am also wondering about dosage. I have had pain medication that the required dosage was stated as "take 2-3 tablets every 3-4 hours or as needed for pain."(at least I think I am remembering correctly) What was the dosage on that? A doctor doesn't know exactly when a person is in pain so they prescribe something for you with a recommendation on how to use it. Not an exact dosage amount. Everyone that uses cannabis knows that they will not exceed their own personal limit for the most part anyway. I have know some very very heavy recreational users but the majority of cannabis users(I have known) conserve their stash and smoke until the desired effect which might be 2 bowls or 2 hits depending on the quality of the herb. Most the time you can't even get above that desired effect. Something mystical and magical about cannabis just says "You have had enough. You don't need anymore." Unlike Alchol and other intoxicating or addictive substances which require an increased dosage over time. I don't know about the rest of you peeps out there but my tolerance for THC seems to have plateaued(sp) to the point where I know exactly how much I am going to need for the desired effect. I most definitely do not need an ever increasing amount. I can say this with 19 years of cannabis toking experience. [ Post Comment ] Comment #15 posted by Ethan Russo MD on October 17, 2002 at 13:41:16 PT: Is Kaptinemo MIA? Where is Kap of late? [ Post Comment ] Comment #14 posted by Dankhank on October 17, 2002 at 13:14:18 PT: Not Bad Pretty good presentation by Martin Webb. One question ...Warren Daniels did say that a substitue medication would allow participation in the program, so I wondered ... Did Martin ask how compliance was measured among those who had a valid prescription for any pain medication such as Oxycontin, Vocodin ... etc., or any other abusable drug? Hemp N Stuff [ Post Comment ] Comment #13 posted by FoM on October 17, 2002 at 13:04:04 PT druid I am really uptight after listening to the program. I don't know how Martin kept his cool but he sure did! Good Job Martin! Thank You! [ Post Comment ] Comment #12 posted by druid on October 17, 2002 at 13:01:33 PT: great job! Our side was patient and very polite and full of information and truth the other side was rude and didn't really say a whole lot.Great Job Martin! [ Post Comment ] Comment #11 posted by FoM on October 17, 2002 at 12:59:21 PT Oh My This program is too much. Heavy duty! I sure wouldn't want to go to that treatment center. No No No! [ Post Comment ] Comment #10 posted by Ethan Russo MD on October 17, 2002 at 12:45:10 PT: Cannabis and Seizures Cannabis that contains CBD clearly has an anticonvulsant effect. Although past literature has suggested that THC promotes seizures, the most recent investigations also show an anticonvulsant effect:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11779037&dopt=AbstractDr. Wallace is an excellent young researcher, and is very invested in looking into this matter thoroughly.I tell my patients with seizures to be careful with any psychoactive substance, but cannabis is vastly safer than alcohol.Many seizure patients, such as Valerie Corral, note control of their spells with cannabis. [ Post Comment ] Comment #9 posted by FoM on October 17, 2002 at 12:44:25 PT That's OK Afterburner Martin is doing a great job! I hope you all are listening to the program.http://www.kvmr.org/audio/live365kvmr.ram [ Post Comment ] Comment #8 posted by afterburner on October 17, 2002 at 12:37:42 PT: FoM and Canadian Articles I'm a little out of the loop on this particular issue, but it seems they need some expert testimony, like Dr. Ethan Russo, regarding the length of time medical cannabis, in fact any cannabis, stays psychoactive after use. Dosage has little to do with it. Frequency is a more important variable.BTW have you seen these:Canada: Canada's Pot Proposal Worries U.S. http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n1927/a12.htmlCanada: Wire: Canada's Contemplation Of Loosening Marijuana http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n1927/a03.htmlCN AB: Seizures May Be Side Effect Of Pot http://www.mapinc.org/newscc/v02/n1928/a09.html?397On the last one I seem to remember at least one article indicating that some patients are using "pot" to reduce seizures. Calling, Dr. Russo. [ Post Comment ] Comment #7 posted by FoM on October 17, 2002 at 12:16:05 PT Program is starting NOW! Good Luck one more time Martin!!!http://www.kvmr.org/audio/live365kvmr.ram [ Post Comment ] Comment #6 posted by FoM on October 17, 2002 at 11:32:32 PT The C-I-R-C-L-E Good Luck To You! [ Post Comment ] Comment #5 posted by The C-I-R-C-L-E on October 17, 2002 at 11:31:21 PT Off I go! I'm out the door in five minutes, after I check medication levels. This morning I received a call from the Johnson's saying that a lawyer has contacted them to take their case for free, after reading the article.Thanks FoM! The debate should be inner-resting... [ Post Comment ] Comment #4 posted by FoM on October 17, 2002 at 11:21:53 PT Thank druid It appears it will be on at 3 pm Eastern Time. About 45 minutes from this posting. The 12 pm time is Pacific Time. Please post anymore information you find. I hope he does a good job and I'm sure he will! [ Post Comment ] Comment #3 posted by druid on October 17, 2002 at 10:23:34 PT: Quick link to audio program http://www.kvmr.org/audio/live365kvmr.ram [ Post Comment ] Comment #2 posted by druid on October 17, 2002 at 10:18:10 PT: Radio Program http://www.kvmr.org/programs/upcoming.htmlUpcoming Programs on KVMROn the Air Thursday October 17th, 2002 Thursday October 17th 12:00 PM Public Planet Medical marijuana and drug abuse treatment programs, with Warren Daniels of Community Recovery Resources and activist Martin Webb. [ Post Comment ] Comment #1 posted by FoM on October 17, 2002 at 09:53:29 PT A Note About Radio Program This afternoon Martin Webb a contributor at CNews will be on KVMR-FM. I need to check the time again but will post it when I check my email. You will be able to listen live by clicking on the link. I wish him good luck!http://www.kvmr.org/ [ Post Comment ] Post Comment