cannabisnews.com: Going To Pot
Going To Pot
Posted by CN Staff on July 17, 2002 at 09:07:47 PT
Editorial
Source: Wall Street Journal
Tony Blair's new soft-on-marijuana policy has naturally been getting applause from U.S. legalizers. They like the British decision to make possession of marijuana a ticketing offense, in the same category as illegal possession of steroids or anti-depressants. Meanwhile -- though getting much less U.S. media attention -- the Dutch are having second thoughts about their own famously liberal marijuana laws. Last week the Netherlands announced a plan to crack down on the legal "coffee" houses where you can buy cannabis along with your cappuccino.
The arguments for decriminalizing marijuana are well known and not without appeal. And yet the evidence emerging in countries that have legalized (the Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium) supports the view that decriminalization leads to rising drug use and higher crime rates. In the Netherlands, marijuana coffeehouses will no longer be permitted near schools or national borders. Neighboring countries with tougher drug laws have complained that their young people cross the border to sample the Dutch wares. Britain has its own bad example in the form of a pilot liberalization in Lambeth, which includes the drugs-ridden south London neighborhood of Brixton. Labour MP Kate Hoey, whose constituency includes Brixton, reports that drug dealers are pushing hard drugs openly on the streets. Police report an 11% increase in trafficking offenses -- though, to be fair, it wasn't clear whether that was because there are more dealers in the area or more cops. For the U.S., the lesson would appear to be to beware legalizers bearing British gifts. Mr. Blair's proposal may sail through the House of Commons, but we're willing to wager that like the Dutch the British will regret the decision once they notice the rise in drug use. The U.S. is better off just saying no. Source: Wall Street Journal (US)Published: July 16, 2002Copyright: 2002 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.Contact: wsj.ltrs wsj.comWebsite: http://www.wsj.com/Related Articles:Britain To Let Pot Smokers Off Lightlyhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread13384.shtmlDutch Prepare Limits On Immigrants, Drugs http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread13369.shtml
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Comment #22 posted by greenfox on July 18, 2002 at 12:09:27 PT
Fuck you
The U.S. is better off just saying no. this is bullshit opinion, not an editorial.
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Comment #21 posted by John Tyler on July 18, 2002 at 08:04:12 PT
Fudafest
The whole point was that the cops wanted to screw with the Fudafest. They wanted to show them who was in control. You can have all the freedon we give you and no more. It was their skunk at the garden party.
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Comment #20 posted by Sam Adams on July 17, 2002 at 14:44:20 PT
Don't forget...
that possession of less that 2.5 z's of MJ is NOT A CRIME in Maine! Maine has some of the best laws in the US, possession is only punished by fine.This is the equivalent of sending 50 SWAT agents into rush hour traffic to bust all the tailgaters.
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Comment #19 posted by krutch on July 17, 2002 at 14:06:21 PT:
I am with you Zero_G
Wolfowitz's proposal scares me. I could get behind the military reacting to confirmed military enemy on US soil, but I do not think they should be part of ordinary police situations. Why a 50 man swat team was needed at Fudafest is beyond me. The story about the man with gun behind the tires was an obivious lie. Even if it was not, I don't understand why a 50 man swat team was needed. The hippies would have cleared out in no time if this was actually the case, leaving nothing but the police and gunman. The police should have understood the actual situation at the festival, as they say they had undercover people at the festival. This kind of vulgar display of power is waste of resources and should not be tolerated. Congradulations to all the police involved for being part of the most expensive routine drug bust in history. People who were searched illegally should press civil rights charges.Freedom is dying in our country. It is time to stand up to these bastards.
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Comment #18 posted by Zero_G on July 17, 2002 at 12:52:22 PT
Osama Rides Again
[...]The tactical team was called in, he said, because of reports that a major drug dealer of Ecstasy and cocaine “was holed up behind the tire pile armed with a .357-caliber Magnum and a 9 millimeter pistol.” The man was not located, he said.Funny how the primary instigators always seem to get away these days...
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Comment #17 posted by Zero_G on July 17, 2002 at 12:47:56 PT
Swat Teams vs Posse Comitatus
[...]The tactical team was called in, he said, because of reports that a major drug dealer of Ecstasy and cocaine “was holed up behind the tire pile armed with a .357-caliber Magnum and a 9 millimeter pistol.” The man was not located, he said.“We wanted to get in and out safely, without inciting a riot,” he said, explaining the presence of the tactical team, dressed in camouflage uniforms and face paint, with full tactical battle gear. The nearly 50 officers created a perimeter around the festival and emerged all at once from the woods, just as a puppet show protesting unjust government interference was about to begin, according Fudafest participants.[...] excerpted from: http://www.sunjournal.com/story.asp?slg=071602fudaThe law, was championed by far-sighted Southern lawmakers in 1878. They had experienced a fifteen year military occupation by the US Army in post-Civil War law enforcement. They understood the heel of a jackboot. In a nutshell, this act bans the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines from participating in arrests, searches, seizure of evidence and other police-type activity on U.S. soil. The Coast Guard and National Guard troops under the control of state governors are excluded from the act. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, testifying in October before the Senate Armed Services Committee, agreed that it might be desirable to give federal troops more of a role in domestic policing to prevent terrorism. "In certain cases we can do more than anyone else in the country because of the special capabilities that we have,'' he said. excerpted from:
http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htmLet me pose this question, "If we arm our civilian police agencies as our military, and limit the civilian oversight avenues available to our populations, (look how hard it is to make meaningful reforms in NYPD, LAPD, Cleveland just to name a few) haven't we already allowed the functional equivilant of the military acting on our soil?"Where is the outrage?
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Comment #16 posted by JR Bob Dobbs on July 17, 2002 at 12:15:07 PT
Another no-name editorial
Regarding the Maine story... how is it that driving a car at a cop can be construed as an attack with a deadly weapon, but sitting on top of a van pointing a rifle around the crowd is not?
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Comment #15 posted by Zero_G on July 17, 2002 at 12:07:35 PT
Rants
The current financial scandals now rocking our economy and society can be blamed completely on the urine-tested corporate elite of America.The urine-tested Corporate Elite? Urine testing is for the masses who need controlling, not for the masters, Its the rare CEO who, for show, and at a time of his/her own choosing, voluntarily participates.Sam & Dr Zombie, Right On! When I was a youngster, we used to speculate about the technological revolution which would provide humanity with low cost goods, energy, leisure time, etc.Living standards have gone down for the majority of the US population since that time, and the disparity between the upper and lower stratas widens continually.On TIPS - Relying on the information given by informants the US military has attacked:A convoy of tribal leaders going to Kabul to participate in the Loya Jorga.Countless warlord rivals that don't make the papers.A wedding.Can't wait for the program here!!!
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Comment #14 posted by FoM on July 17, 2002 at 11:29:30 PT
This Must Stop!
Man Shot by Detectives at Marijuana Garden
By John Young, The Porterville Recorder
ELDERWOOD -- A man who shot at Tulare County sheriff's detectives staking out a marijuana garden near here Saturday night was killed when they returned fire, sheriff's officials said.
Deputies said the man, who has been identified as Ignacio Rangel Gonzales, 46, of Visalia was seen approaching the garden, located on private property several miles from Drum Valley Road, about three miles west of Road 245, at about 11 p.m. He was carrying a flashlight.
Complete Article: http://www.myopr.com/display/inn_news/news03.txt
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Comment #13 posted by xxdr_zombiexx on July 17, 2002 at 11:16:05 PT
hardly off topic, Sam - I - am
It's exactly what we are talking about.The Violence Inherent in the System on display in the woods of Maine.can't storm Enron or Worldcom or _________________(insert your favorite corporation brought down by greed and corruption), but they can raid and rob peaceful hippies. One of whom is a Landowner. Its good they left without busting everybody, but it was needless, needless overkill and it was a home invasion and it was a robbery.It is shocking because they can do damn little to stop fanatical terrorists, but they have set an example on how to create and milk a crisis for all it is worth. They wont protect us from the next crazy thing, but dancin hippies won't be threatening this country much longer.The 7th Cavalry exterminated about 300 Native Americans - old men, women and children - about 110 years ago. Shot them with Howitizers and left them in the cold. They were doing the Ghost Dance, which had been forbidden by the Federal Government. The Ghost dance was supposed to help build the Spiritual Energy necessary to evict the White Man from Native soil.I keep thinking of it these days, for some reason.
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Comment #12 posted by Sam Adams on July 17, 2002 at 10:52:37 PT
Perhaps they prefer more taxes to pay for this?
http://www.sunjournal.com/story.asp?slg=071602fudaSorry to go off topic, but I think this raid in Maine by 50 Green Beret types on a few hippies was pretty shocking.
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Comment #11 posted by E_Johnson on July 17, 2002 at 10:40:03 PT
Definitely facts are wrong - I am surprised
The Dutch government is tightening enforcement of existing regulations on cannabis cafes. That means they are reaffirming their commitment to the system of regulated access, not reaching back towards the completely unregulatable system created by prohibition.
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Comment #10 posted by Robbie on July 17, 2002 at 10:31:18 PT
Wolfgang, and others
They're scared. They're trying to hold on by notching up the misinformation.And, with HR 2592 in play, they want to move quickly to demean, degrade, and de-legitimize British and Canadian cannabis law reform efforts. Then when med-i-can comes up, they can roundly defeat that effort and cheer on the drug testing of 12 year olds.And, really WSJ, leaving out that anti-reform in the Netherlands is a direct result of a conservative government coming to power... You really should do a better job informing your readers :-\
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Comment #9 posted by krutch on July 17, 2002 at 10:28:24 PT:
A Poor Editorial
The autor is complianing about liberal Europe, but our crime situation is no better in the US. In fact, it is common knowledge we have more crime in the USA than any of the countries discussed in the article. Obiviously, laws the vilify MJ users have no effect on overall crime rate. If they did than the USA would have less crime then the countries that have legalized or decriminalized.The author calls Lambeth a bad example, but the only quantitative evidence he offers is that arrests for drug trafficking have increased by 11%. I would call evidence of success. The police are arresting dealers rather than users. As I understand it, this was the desired outcome of the Lambeth experiment.Why does putting MJ in the same category as steroids or anti-depressants trouble the right wing so much? I don't know much about antidepressants, but I have seen steroids absolutely destroy the user's health in a short period of time. MJ does not even belong in this category. It is far more benign than steroids.The author says:"...And yet the evidence emerging in countries that have legalized (the Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium) supports the view that decriminalization leads to rising drug use and higher crime rates."I would like to know where this so called evidence comes from. Was there an actual study, or are we just supposed to take the author at his word.I am suspicious. Sounds like he has an axe to grind.Bad facts make bad laws.
-Frank Zappa
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Comment #8 posted by E_Johnson on July 17, 2002 at 10:25:23 PT
Make this point to them!!!
The current financial scandals now rocking our economy and society can be blamed completely on the urine-tested corporate elite of America.This disaster was created by the drug free sector of the population.
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Comment #7 posted by Sam Adams on July 17, 2002 at 10:12:40 PT
It's true Zombie
Just look at who the WOSD focusses on: poor people and hippies. A bunch of people hanging out in the woods, happy just with enjoying some herb and each others' company? Not much opportunity for exploitation there, the lazy bastards won't work for the capitalist overlords! At least if they were drunks, money could be made off selling them processed alcohol. But cannabis is a weed, no money in it for anyone if it's legal.
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Comment #6 posted by cltrldmg on July 17, 2002 at 10:09:31 PT
Does the stock market matter?
I was thinking about the current share crisis and I started wondering who actually benefits from it. I don't know much about economics so maybe this is all wrong, if so sorry for rambling.I've been reading reports in financial papers that basically say that the problem with the stock markets collapsing is that they usually affect consumption ("will the share plunge affect the global economy?". When people see the stocks going way down, they start to think that the economy as a whole is going to shit and that they should save, so they spend less and the economy suffers. It seemed to imply that other than the psychological effects, the Dow Jones losing 1000 points or whatever since the beginning of the year wasn't actually going to affect us that much.If this is the case, how much do stocks really contribute to economic growth of a country's economy? If it's only psychologically important, at a time like this wouldn't we be better off if the stock-market didn't exist? It always seemed to me that shares are really important because it allows enterprising people to raise money easily and concentrate research, but now I'm not so sure. The UK has been predicting 2-3% growth, even with the current stagnation, and drop of its stocks... if the stocks were doing well, how much more would they expect?Maybe it doesn't really make much of a difference, and it's only made important because a lot of the people who do profit from it are politically and socially important. Maybe all this worry and media coverage is only really for the sake of a small group of wealthy people.What does it really mean to be able to buy shares? That instead of having for example a thousand small companies supplying all the goods in a certain sector that the they are instead being sold by 3 or 4 very powerful companies. What does this change? The big companies certainly get richer, but all the small companies will be forced out of business, and in the economy as a whole, the same number of goods are going to be sold.
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Comment #5 posted by xxdr_zombiexx on July 17, 2002 at 09:56:53 PT
The Consumer Society
"The truth is, Neo, you are a slave. You were born into a prison for your mind" - Mopheus explaining the Matrix to Neo.Sam, I thought I was the only one who thought like you clearly do. You are dead-on about the Slavery-history of what we call "Capitalism", at least as I see it.After Slavery was rather symbolically abolished, many slaves, for whatever reaso, stayed on to work for the plantations and families that had "bought" them. They would ofetn work in exchange for goods from Plantation or General Store. Credit with interest. Many of course, got in WAY over their heads and became slaves to debt essentially.This became the Peonage System. I say this was spread far and wide and with the coming of automation and mass-production America (and much of the developed world) has become a massive Peonage System. I call it the consumer Society. Material aquisition is so important much of the American public has credit card debt, often horrendous amounts. Debt ensures that you wont just sit around developing you innate potential, that you will be busy paying intrest, slave to a job which pumps money into the government via taxation. Too busy making ends meet to ask questions, ya know?This is how people's Life Energy is drained off. Money is a measure of human effort, the metaphorical equivalent to the power inherent in a nice fresh battery.Just like in the Matrix, we are here to feed the capitalist machines: just batteries.Furthermore, the people sam talks about were many of those represented by people who lynched black men. I believe they sorely miss that and have subsituted the SWAT-style raids on cannabis culture in thier absence. The best one recently, for them, was Rainbow Farm.
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Comment #4 posted by Sam Adams on July 17, 2002 at 09:37:16 PT
telling editorial
The well-known extreme right-wing position of the WSJ editorial board offers a revealing glimpse of the root cause of USA's continuing WOSD. The economic and political power base (basically the same group of people) in this country is entirely controlled by old white men. Old, stodgy white men with near-militant "conservative" ideals.I've always thought that one reason the American South is more morally "conservative" is because their economic success depended on slavery until just a few generations ago. To be a successful businessman in Southern culture, one needed to be a successful slavemaster. Persecution, hatred, cruelty and greed were rewarded with success. The system produced a strong disincentive for compassion, moral fairness, or egalitarianism. Now, 150 years later, the laws have changed, but the ingrained attitudes continue.The modern American business environment is very similar. The current scandals show what type of individuals rise to the top of our economic system: greedy, selfish, liars. Our current system - corrupted capitalism - rewards those with instincts for narcissism, arrogance, greed, deceit, and above all, exploitation. The rules of business are black and white: to succeed you MUST find a way to pay others the absolute minimum amount possible to produce your goods. You MUST manipulate people into working at maximum output, and also to give up as much of the resulting productivity as possible to YOU. The continuing WOSD is an embodiment of these same values. It doesn't matter what polls or voters say; the socio-political elite are staunchly in favor of WOSD persecution. That's why many Congressmen love to rail against medical MJ, even though 75% of the population supports it.
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Comment #3 posted by Hope on July 17, 2002 at 09:27:57 PT
Won't see ink....but sent anyway
To the Editor:Having read your editorial: Going to Pot, I see that you are a
prohibitionist. YOU are responsible for the death and suffering of
thousands. The prohibition of drugs that you so cling to causes more blood
shed and life lost than any amount of drug use.It took 13 years of stubborn prohibitionist ignorance, violence, poison
alcohol, more children than ever consuming the rot gut than when it was
legal, and the murder of 7 gangsters (St. Valentine's Day Massacre) for
Americans to call for an end to Alcohol Prohibition. Yes, we still have
people with problems with alcohol, but as bad as it is, it's no where near
as bad as prohibition made it.We, in this so called "modern and enlightened age", who seem to enjoy
violence as entertainment, have watched countless thousands of innocents die
in drive bys, fly bys, and walk bys, as well as the loss of police officers,
countless gangsters, and poisoned users, yet we still cling vociferously to
grievously, idiotic Drug Prohibition. (Yes, I AM very angry!)Prohibitionists, like yourself, have smugly and self righteously signed the
death warrants of innocent human beings and some not so innocent human
beings. YOU killed Charity Bowers and her mother. YOU killed eleven year old
Alberto Sepulveda, murdered in his bedroom beside his bunk bed by an officer
who didn't know how to handle a shotgun. He pulled the trigger. YOU gave him
the right to and made excuses for him. Peruvians pulled the trigger on Ronni
and Charity Bowers. YOU gave them the right to. YOU hired them to do it. YOU
are responsible for the murders of innocents in turf war drive bys and shoot
outs over illegal sales turf and drug deals gone awry.Are you truly blood thirsty...or just stubbornly ignorant?
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Comment #2 posted by goneposthole on July 17, 2002 at 09:25:13 PT
Nobody in the US uses drugs
Voila, just like that,
we are drug free.Freedumb rules in the US of A.
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Comment #1 posted by WolfgangWylde on July 17, 2002 at 09:20:12 PT
Ahh yes, The Wall Street Journal...
...where the Free Market reigns, and private individuals should be free to engage in consensual commerce, except when it comes to the Drug War.
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