cannabisnews.com: Lawyer Asks Judge To Throw Out Two Charges










  Lawyer Asks Judge To Throw Out Two Charges

Posted by CN Staff on July 04, 2002 at 08:05:10 PT
By Denny Walsh -- Bee Staff Writer 
Source: Sacramento Bee  

The government wrapped up its case Wednesday in the marijuana-growing trial of Bryan James Epis, and his lawyer asked the judge to throw out half the charges due to "an utter lack of evidence."The 35-year-old Epis, who helped establish and supply a cannabis buyers' club in Chico, does not deny cultivating marijuana. But he insists he did not profit from the venture and sought only to help sick people with doctors' recommendations, in compliance with California's Compassionate Use Act.
What he and his lawyer, J. Tony Serra, hotly dispute is that Epis agreed with others to hike his own production to more than 1,000 plants, a charge that carries a minimum of 10 years in prison upon conviction in federal court.The two counts in the indictment that embody that charge are what Serra asked U.S. District Judge Frank C. Damrell Jr. to dismiss at the close of the government's case. Damrell reserved ruling in the matter.The other two counts charge Epis with growing at least 100 plants. Conviction on that charge carries a minimum five-year term.Assistant U.S. attorney Samuel Wong argued that the evidence supports a 1,000-plant conspiracy. He reminded the judge that fingerprints of two other people were lifted from cultivation and processing equipment in Epis' Chico residence when it was searched June 25, 1997. A Jiffy Lube receipt written to one of those individuals also was found in the residence, Wong said.The prosecutor also argued that evidence shows Epis was assisted by another person. It further shows that Epis was sharing each harvest with at least two people, Wong said.Finally, Wong noted that a car belonging to David Kasakove, the operator of the buyers' club and one of the people whose prints were found at the house, was seen at Epis' residence three months before the search.Serra countered that, if there was enough evidence to place Kasakove in a 1,000-plant conspiracy, he would have been charged along with Epis.The trial will resume Monday. Snipped:Complete Article: http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/3450669p-4478729c.htmlSource: Sacramento Bee (CA)Author: Denny Walsh -- Bee Staff WriterPublished: Thursday, July 4, 2002Copyright: 2002 The Sacramento BeeContact: opinion sacbee.comWebsite: http://www.sacbee.com/Related Articles & Web Site:Medicinal Cannabis Research Linkshttp://freedomtoexhale.com/research.htm Legal Gaffe No Barrier To Pot Trialhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread13284.shtmlMedical Marijuana Trial on Hold http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread13247.shtmlLegal Glitch Halts Pot Trial http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread13246.shtmlJurors in Medical Marijuana Case To Be Shieldedhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread13241.shtml 

Home    Comment    Email    Register    Recent Comments    Help





Comment #58 posted by Jose Melendez on July 05, 2002 at 17:50:19 PT
*In basketball, they call this "nothin' but net&qu
from:http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n1242/a01.html?397"I find forcing the accused to choose between his health and imprisonment violates his right to liberty and security of the person under Section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms." -Provincial court Judge Phil Ketchum, who told cops and the Crown to back off of medical cannabis defendant Brian Edward Oates until Oates can go through the process for a legal exemption. A raid on his home found 71 marijuana plants growing in the basement.
(*swish!)
Dope Smoker Off Hook
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #57 posted by gloovins on July 05, 2002 at 17:25:51 PT
LA..dddd
Yes well I am definitly an expert on self-therapy in LA...i've been here 10 yrs this Sept. Crazy city you love calling "home" for some reason. Actually I was born in Indiana, raised in Beverly Hills, Michigan. (yes, this is an actual place) so I'm very blanco here in Loosey Angie, ya know? But I gloove it w/mary so everthingz cool. laters all.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #56 posted by Industrial Strength on July 05, 2002 at 13:58:03 PT
James Brown
The song "doing it to death" by James Brown and the JB's is one of the hottest songs ever played, in my opinion.I always wondered if Dan B and B Green were the same person??I'm too plain to be an alter ego of Q to the D to the P times four.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #55 posted by FoM on July 05, 2002 at 08:30:44 PT
Two Articles On Tobacco
Cigarette Stash
How sky-high British taxes have spawned a black market in tobacco.
By Joel Miller
Demonstrating that it learned nothing from colonial American smugglers dodging duties and tariffs, Tony Blair's Britain is currently burdening its smokers with cigarette taxes so preposterous they have spawned a black market for tobacco mirroring the one for illegal drugs.
Official Customs and Excise stats place the number of smuggled cigarettes at 17 billion in 2000-2001, costing the government some £2.8 billion in lost tax revenue, with another £890 million going up in smoke in the form of smuggled hand-rolling tobacco.
Complete Article: http://reason.com/hod/jm070502.shtmlVan Dough
Why cigarette smugglers love New York.
By Jacob Sullum
July 5, 2002
In Elizabethan England, the historian Egon Corti reports, tobacco sold for its weight in silver. That would suit New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg just fine.
Bloomberg recently signed a bill raising the city's cigarette tax from 8 cents to $1.50 a pack. With a state tax of $1.50, the highest in the country, New Yorkers were already paying more for cigarettes than other Americans. Now the price of some brands is more than $7, nearly twice the national average.
Complete Article: http://reason.com/sullum/070502.shtml
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #54 posted by lookinside on July 05, 2002 at 07:41:52 PT:
for the record......
My spouse and I are NOT fig Newtons of dddd's fertile imagination.For those who would like a better deal, I've been ordering from this site for 2 years. http://www.ronssmokeshop.com/By far the best in service and prices I've found.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #53 posted by dddd on July 05, 2002 at 07:02:00 PT
..gloovins.........
...yea,,,I know what you're saying....Loose Angela is the Best of the Worst,,and the Worst of the Best...Where bad things can be really good,,,and good things,,can be really bad!....I dont know about your '8 million in therapy' theory....heck,,,,,,7.9999 million would be more accurate,,because you cant get therapy,,without "therapists".... 
 
 
...I guess that's why "self therapy" has become so popular... I doubt that I'm the only one who cant afford a real "therapist"........but....I'm thinkin' of trying to get a job as a therapist,,and that way,,I could absorb therapy from my job,,for free,,,and still get paid to therapize others!....(?)....quadra d
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #52 posted by qqqq on July 05, 2002 at 06:44:45 PT
....I was wondering....
...who the first real person,,that I neglected to include in my "non-4d controlled" group,,,would be ...
 
...DarkStar,,,you definately aint no fig Newton......I'm just happy to know that at least you read my spacey posts!
 
 
....and now that I think of it,,,I dont think there's anything wrong with being a Figment of someones imagination. ..(?)
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #51 posted by Dark Star on July 05, 2002 at 06:16:41 PT
With Respect to #49
QQQQ: So I suppose that I'm a fig newton of your imagination, huh?
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #50 posted by gloovins on July 05, 2002 at 04:47:06 PT
Loose Angela
LA is like 8 million people in group therapy. Yea I live in Loose Angela shes good but seriously, btt, I think tobacco is a gateway drug to cannabis b/c when you think of it, what "smoke" seen by thousands of kids each day in society is worse? That of a fresh green herb or a dead brown leaf thru a fiberglass filter? The gov't has brain washed them it cigs n booze.& for the record, I don't smoke now but did   14 yo & into my mid-20s ..lightly --   bars when drinking socially, after sex/meals sex etc....now, for the last 5-6 years, after my body basically rejected it, I can't stand it, thats why SOME people who have quit resent smokers, they say. Not true here but oh well, I'm an actor & I would for a role...if it called for it, so I don't know.. am I a hypocrite?Naa, not me! ;) ..but I will tell you if u quit taxing yr lungs with smokes for good, yr taste, ahhh, buds come back BIG time! Very glad I quit the dead brown leaf but i dont preach...i swear.;)
(a gloovins intended pun) 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #49 posted by qqqq on July 05, 2002 at 04:05:39 PT
....
...No Shit!!!  If I was Indy,,,and I had all of a sudden met up with UUUUncle dddd/qqqq/pppp/????,,,,I would definitly approach the anomious **** entity with extreme caution......but,,,The 4d does have a certain significant amount of respect,and integrity amongst the people here,,,,,,BUT,,Many times,,I have thought about all the stuff I write here...[{..I've often felt sorta guilty,,about saying too much,,and obsessivly posting,,as if this was some sort of "chat room",,((which it sometimes is,,and that's good)..[?]...{&?}]))); ;;;)))...
 ....and like you yourself BGreen said the other nite,,,,;something about,,"get a life".
 
....It's kinda weird,BGreen,,I'll tell you all about it,,you and DanB.  ...,,,let's all make sure to remember to not tell ElToonces,,Ethan Russo,,and Kap,Observer,,and maybe Lehder,,,,that 4d is the only other person on this site!...yup...4d invented the whole thing!....Your minds are all mere toys in the dea/ondcp/cia/ondcp/fda/lsd/ Agency/Department!.....dddd has a contract with all these government agencys,,and he will be paid $420 million dollars if he successfully ropes in enough people with his website charade,,to cause a significant bust.....so,,,what happenned?? ,..well...it seems that 4d got carried away,,and he started creating a bunch of fake "characters" here on CNews.....And it was kinda like some big psycho game,,as 4d pretended to be everyone who commented at the site!!....
 
..now that you know that I am dddd,,I guess we might as well talk openly,,and I will 'spill all the beans'.so to speak..I guess it's kinda stupid of me to tell you all this BGreen...,because now everyone will know that almost everyone else here is fake! ..I'm especially proud of my recent contraversial muppets like ';  p4me , ,Number7, Hope,,MDG,GCW, goneposthole,DocZombie,legalizit,,and ,of course,Industrial Strength!...,,Robbie,SamAdams,and firedog,are all fake.,,,,I cant believe that people actually fell for my "CongressmanSuet" character!!!. ....Hey!!..wait a minute!... I'll bet you are probably DanB BGreen!(?),,or maybe the other way around!...... 
...I just became aware earlier tonite,,about what "ekim" is backwards!..now I'm checking everyones name backwards,,,and I then ended up concluding that the "dddd",,or;"****",,type of names were the best,,because there was no suspicious backward code thing involved!......if you are wondering what "dddd",is backwards,,, it aint no mystery!......this is a rather strange post.....BUT,...it's for entertainment purposes only!...I dont wanna getanyone mad at me,,,so,,if you dont feel quite right about all this,,then I recommend you go out and purchase an early Jethro Tull album(CD),,like "Benifit",,or "Stand Up"....if they dont have that at your local record store, (ha-ha.."record store"?),,,,,,then perhaps you might get lucky,,and find the soundtrack from Superfly,,,by Curtis Mayfield!!!
 
....It may interest some,,to know that I have a very impressive collection of James Brown LPs,,,yup..I started collecting classics from the Godfather of Soul about 20 years ago!!!!!....I cant believe it myself!
 
 
...I'm foolishly not going to proofread this,,,I just hope that you're not a fake BGreen,if you are,,I will send E Johnson over to kick your ass!....I pity da foo' who gets beat up by EJ!
 
.....P.S....[[[this is my brain............on alcohol]]]........dddd
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #48 posted by BGreen on July 05, 2002 at 03:19:28 PT
Tolerance
I'm not sexually attracted to men, but if I was, and the sexual attraction was as strong as I have for my wife, it would be extremely difficult to resist.I'm not gay, and that's where my business ends.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #47 posted by Industrial Strength on July 05, 2002 at 02:21:54 PT
I think
that most homophobes are gay or close to it. Why else would they be so insecure? Then again, I remember once my dad telling me, this is verbatim that "gays are worse than child molestors". Different school though.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #46 posted by BGreen on July 05, 2002 at 02:05:54 PT
Industrial Strength
Your comment got me wondering: Are there any homophobic gay people who are afraid of themselves? LOLGoing out to see UUUUncle DDDD might get a little confusing, because without his signature how would you ever know with whom you were talking?
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #45 posted by Industrial Strength on July 05, 2002 at 01:44:35 PT
nah
Hannah aint too fucked. She's great, I miss her so much. Smarter than I am. My whole fam is a little nuts though.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #44 posted by dddd on July 05, 2002 at 01:32:26 PT
...Europe...
..IS..(P)...I toured Europe by myself in 1976....,,,I was 20 years old,,,,,and I wish your sister would have been there to show me around,,I'm sure she is not "fucked",,,,but I did run into many strange cut-throat "fucked" people..but ,,more importantly,,I met many more really nice people.....
 
...[but,,I guess you never know,,,the "nice" people I met,,may have been one step away from being "fucked",,and I was lucky enough to hit the road before these fake nice people deployed their plan of evil fuckedness on me!???
 
 
....I jive....I wish you the best Indy....dddd
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #43 posted by qqqq on July 05, 2002 at 01:17:34 PT
..Proofreading...
..is for wimps!!!!,,,and dddd is not a wimp....
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #42 posted by Industrial Strength on July 05, 2002 at 01:16:13 PT
Oh, I
shall be sure to run into some "fucked people", because I will be spending alot of time with family. LoL. My older sister, who has been living in Italy for the past two years, will be there (apparantly Italy takes August off; the whole country kind of shuts down) and shes making all sorts of plans. Going to drag my apathetic ass all over, which is good. I sometimes need someone to spur me like that, and she's been all over, so she knows where she's going. She wants to take me back to Italy with her as well. 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #41 posted by dddd on July 05, 2002 at 01:15:29 PT
...weird typo !!
..on the '[...G0od..]'thing!..?...I meant 'God'..
 
.4d
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #40 posted by dddd on July 05, 2002 at 01:10:14 PT
I ddddont really know what you mean Indy..
...but,,,I'm serious about the invitation........and....please have a good time in England...it's a nice place,,unless you run into some fucked people,,,then ,,,the UK can easily turn into a Nightmare from Hell!!!,,and you'll wish you were back home!............I havnt been "around the world",,,but I've been alot of places,,,and one thing I've learned,,is that ANYWHERE you go,,,there are good people,,and there are bad people...the ratio of "good to bad",,is the same throughout the world!......As an American,,the only reason I would be afraid to travel internationally nowdays,,is because some foolish person might very well be so simplistic as to connect me with GW, "Shithead", Bush,,and blame me for the empires' crass," world is my ashtray",,,Uber Allis..dominance bombinance...
 
...I would be kind of embarassed to travel as an "American" nowdays!....I would be much more proud to be from Canada,,or Mexico,,,or even Uraguay!....the empire is not anything to be proud of,,,in fact,,,,I'm kind of ashamed to think that people think that I,,,as an "American",,have anything to do with the empire that now governs the US,,,and eventually,,the WORLD!!.........Also....Indy!!!! here's where the shit hits the fan in the Bible/G0od question!....Read the Bible,,,and read the book of Revalations...I admit,,it's a tough thing t0o read,,and it can be interpreted in numerous,nebulous ways,,,,but we cannot deny the fact that it is an enigmatic piece of world class literature,,and,,the Book of Revelations,is a truly heavy item,,whether you think it's real or not!!!....like I said,,it can be interpreted in many ways,,,but I think if you take the time to browse around the Bible,,you will start to see what 'us Christians',,are talking about!..........
 .....(sorry...said too much again......how embarassing!).......d+3 more
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #39 posted by Industrial Strength on July 05, 2002 at 00:17:48 PT
ddddifferent
Which is good, in my books, because the norm is bordering awful.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #38 posted by dddd on July 05, 2002 at 00:10:41 PT
...Where Else?...
....No where else!!..(site)!!!,,, ..........
 
..........and if you ever happen to visit LA,,and you dont look up your old Uncle D,,then you will have missed something very special,and unique!....I dont know whether I am the Best of the Worst,,or the Worst of the Best...but I do know that I am quite RARE...well,,,maybe not....nope....come to think of it,,,,I'm quite well done..(?)......dddd
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #37 posted by Industrial Strength on July 04, 2002 at 23:56:42 PT
Uncle D
My best friend has a for real Uncle D(ean) that lives in LA. He's in showbusiness actually, part of the "lone gunmen" on the X files and they had their own ill fated spin off awhile ago...I'm far from being a "star fucker", but it's somewhat surreal to see someone you have met on television.Im as far from being gay as I am from being homophobic ... That is to say, real far. Fiscally, I can't forsee there being any problems, but I do...uh...have some schooling issues that need to be adressed.I really do love this site...Where else???
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #36 posted by dddd on July 04, 2002 at 23:46:10 PT
...Indy.....
...I am completely serious,and it is an open ended,and flexible invitation.....I assume that you now have my email address,,and if you missed it,let me know.........I will be your host ...(I am not "gay",,and it doesnt matter to me if you are)....Cmon down and visit Uncle dddd!....I guarantee it will be an experience that you will not soon forget!. ... I dare you!!!....dddd
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #35 posted by Industrial Strength on July 04, 2002 at 22:48:31 PT
seriously...
dddd, if that is a serious invitation, I would seriously try to set the wheels in motion, but it wouldn't be for a few months.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #34 posted by FoM on July 04, 2002 at 22:28:06 PT
Californie Is The Place I Wanna Be
So we loaded up our truck and moved to Beverly. Hills that is swimming pools and movie stars. I think California is beautiful. In West Hollywood in January when I was there it was warm and the windows could be open and there weren't any bugs. I couldn't believe no bugs and when I called my husband we were having terrible ice storms back home. You haven't lived until you've cruised down Hollywood Boulevard on a Saturday Night. LOL! I couldn't believe what I was seeing but I'm glad I had a chance to experience how others live. 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #33 posted by Industrial Strength on July 04, 2002 at 22:27:02 PT
hopefully
that is an open ended invitation...I'm leaving for England in August. See my father for the first time in over 7 years. That ought to be intresting. See my older sister for the first time in two years...
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #32 posted by BGreen on July 04, 2002 at 22:11:13 PT
It's Discrimination
People make SO much noise within the city limits, including my neighbor, who somehow KNOWS when we are trying to take a nap, and fires up his lawn tractor, which is about 120 dB inside our bedroom.However, when my band is rehearsing for a show, the neighbors call 911 and the piglets show up at the door. If they get any more complaints, we get a ticket. When it pertains to music, they don't even have to use a decibel meter, they just have to get complaints.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #31 posted by dddd on July 04, 2002 at 22:10:23 PT
....yea....Indy my friend....
....I am serious!....I challenge you to visit me here in SoCal!!!!I will pick you up from the airport,,and drop you off when I'm done with you,,or you're done with me!.........yes,,,the fake-ness runs rampant down here,,,but it's so fake,,it's REAL!!!....This is an opportunity of a lifetime!!!!...I dont like very many people...I would not throw out such an invitation to just anyone.....There would be nothing "fake",about the strange and fascinmating experience you would have down here.....If you can scare up the money for plane fare to LAX,,,or preferrably John Wayne Airport,,,then I will feed you,anbd house you for several days!..(nothing more than a week though,,,I might think you are an asshole after I actually meet you face to face,,,and the same vice-versa.).....
 
 
Sincerely....................d........................d............................................d.............................................D
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #30 posted by Industrial Strength on July 04, 2002 at 21:48:30 PT
cultural experience of a lifetime...
Watching fake blondes with fake breasts and fake marriages walking fake dogs while bloods and crypts rain pieces of 9mm and .45 lead down on everything...Lol, thats what they teach us in school. All kidding aside, I would love to see California.As for my neighbor's being "about" a mile away, they are one mile on the nose away, a mile in each direction. There is a mile road running east-west every mile and a mile road running north-south every mile, this giant grid that goes on seemingly forever across the face of the plain...
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #29 posted by qqqq on July 04, 2002 at 21:36:39 PT
..SoCal War zone...
....yea...kinda,,,but it's a war zone on many fronts!....Come on down Indy!...You can stay at my place,,with me and my dog,,,and you will be embroiled by the cultural experience of a lifetime!...It will be a true opposite of where you live!....you said your nearest neighbor is about a mile away.....well,,,my nearest neighbor is about 25 feet away,,,,,......SoCal is the Best of the good,,and the Worst of the bad,,,and the Worst of the good,,and the Best of the Bad!....I recommend seeing it for ones-self!...it is not easy to describe!............gotta go,,,I am nervous about fire on the roofs of my Ranch houses!.....
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #28 posted by Industrial Strength on July 04, 2002 at 21:11:25 PT
isn't
it always like a war zone in SoCal?
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #27 posted by dddd on July 04, 2002 at 21:02:59 PT
I know what you mean BGreen!
..This is like a war zone,down here in SoCal....it's just now getting dark,,but there are fireworks everywhere!...
 
 
..I gonna fire up my 72 Twin Reverb,,,and plug in my 75 Stratocaster,,,and play really loud!..It's one of the few times of the year,that complaints from neighbors are not a worry..My twin has been modified,,and sports two 12" Altecs...it is excruciatingly loud,,,and I've been waiting for tonite,so I can really crank it up!...only problem,,is that my dog has to hide because of the loudness!....Loud Guitars &Amps!...now that's what I call Freedom!..dddd
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #26 posted by BGreen on July 04, 2002 at 20:45:59 PT
If I had a penny for every explosion I've heard
If I had a penny for every explosion I've heard today, I'd have enough to fly all of us up to Industrial Strength's house for an extended vacation.My neighbors have shot off thousands of dollars worth of aerial fireworks, some getting really close to my house before they report. Tomorrow I get to go up on my roof and clean off the debris, and then clean the trash off my acre of land.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #25 posted by Industrial Strength on July 04, 2002 at 20:42:21 PT
oh yea, firedog...
I'm only bringing this up because I'm a stickler for the details...I never said ddd+1 regarded bacon to be addictive, that was sort of the point...
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #24 posted by FoM on July 04, 2002 at 20:35:59 PT
My dog
This is a picture of my dog. He was about 6 months old when we took this. He's a year an a half now and much bigger. PS: dddd send me a picture of your dog. I have the one you sent me before but it is on my other computer. I'd appreciate it. If you want it uploaded I can do that for you. Just ask and then you can post it like I am doing with my dog's picture.http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/kapt.jpg
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #23 posted by Industrial Strength on July 04, 2002 at 20:34:01 PT
your right
if nothing else, breathing is essential. We must have breathing!Preperation O, I love it.An ode to hedonism, from the master:"Turn up the radio. Turn up the tape machine. Look into the sunset up ahead. Roll the windows down for a better taste of the cool desert wind. Ah yes. This is what it's all about. Total control now. Tooling along the main drag on a Saturday night in Las Vegas, two good old boys in a fireapple red convertible ... stoned, ripped, twisted ... Good people."I don't know why I picked that particular passage, I just love the "Turn up the radio. Turn up the tape machine." part.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #22 posted by qqqq on July 04, 2002 at 20:25:38 PT
...P.S........Oh yeah,,,
...About my Dog.....he is a purebred Scottish-Italian Pom-Pom terrier,,that I got from a dog ranch in Nova Scotia,,twelve years ago....He is the rarest breed in the world today,as he is the only one!....He looks alot like a Spitz would look,if it had short hair.....He is all white,,with black spots over both his eyes,,and by his tail....he also has faint grey polka-dots all over.....wanna picture?....e-mail me.... danadana1 earthlink.net  
 
no kidding....
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #21 posted by dddd on July 04, 2002 at 20:17:04 PT
...not offended....
...but I do greatly appreciate firedog coming to my defense with his,(hers?),valid points...
 
 
....you're right Indy,,,I never considered sphinctal administration....Perhaps we could develop a new product...; "Preparation O"..We already went over the topic of weed suppositorys
 
 
..I must agree with you all about the fine lines,and gray areas involved with habits,,addictions,,hedonistic impulses,and epicurian enjoyments....it all becomes quite complicated ....BUT.....if nothing else,,,my ramblings about breathing are not something to be argued with!..and,,I pity da foo' who would try!.....ddddeluded
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #20 posted by Industrial Strength on July 04, 2002 at 19:57:27 PT
well...
it wasn't meant to be insulting at all, and I hope no one, especially dddd thinks as much.To say "anything is addictive" in regards to the bacon vs cigarettes comparison is rather...um, silly. Anything is addictive for some people, but you know what's addictive for all people? Nicotine.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #19 posted by Industrial Strength on July 04, 2002 at 19:54:29 PT
you left out...
anally as a possible way to intake O2. Lol.I'm still somewhat hedonistic and epicurian (another one I had to look up; means the same thing as hedonistic, lol)I just quit smoking...Would that make me cease to become a hedonist? I don't know. It's only one tiny avenue of life, of my epicurian indulgences...What kind of dog do you have, Q to the D to the P times four?
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #18 posted by firedog on July 04, 2002 at 19:45:07 PT
Anything can be addictive... for some people
There are people out there who can get addicted to bridge, knitting, bacon, soccer, running, driving, the Internet, all kinds of things.The important thing to remember is that the obsessive-compulsive personalities and extremely addictive personalities can become addicted/fixated on any kind of activity or product. Some of this may be a coping mechanism for bad genes or a bad environment.The antis who say that "marijuana is addictive in 5% of the population" conveniently forget that 5% of the population is likely to latch onto anything as a result of OCD/addictive nature... it's probably true for bacon, as well... I don't believe that dddd ever said that bacon was addictive, and Industrial Strength, your response was a bit on the insulting side. 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #17 posted by qqqq on July 04, 2002 at 19:40:35 PT
...THE HEDONISTIC-EPICURIAN SYNDROME..
.....Indy,,,I know exactly what you mean; 
 
;;;"...Everytime I smoke a cigarette now, it's never as good as I remember. I still
      mentally crave them all the time. They give me this strange confidence."
 
..Yes...that "strange confidence"......Well put!...........I kept lighting up smokes,,year after year,,and even though I realized that it was slow suicide,,I somehow made this abstract justification about some kind of "studley" image, ,,(kinda like;"I'm not afraid of smoking.,,,gonna die someday anyway."..........I knew it was bad all along,,but,,like FoM ,,I would become very snappy and terse when I tried to abstain..I made the same stupid justification about my blood pressure and such.....but I still kept hackin' 'em down! Old Golds,,and Newport 100s,,,none of this "lights" shit for me,,I went for the true high octane coffin nails.
 
...I'd probably still be smoking today if I hadn't almost DIED at the beginning of this year!...There is something very special,and unique about lying in bed gasping for breath...I got myself one of them oxygen tank things,,you know,,with the plastic tubes that hook over your ears and go under your nose,,feeding you pure oxygen.I was afraid to go to sleep,because I knew I would not wake up!...It is really quite stunning to realize,that you have an almost completely heathy body,,except for the fact,that your lungs are no longer functional enough to sustain anything but the most shallow wisp of life....I started trying to think of some way I could get oxygen orally,,or perhaps intraveiniously.....nope,,,there's just no way to replace respiration...Life is dependant on breathing...if a person fucks up,,and ends up dying because they can no longer assimilate oxygen into their blood,it's a tragic, and painful way to go..It's kinda like being slowly smothered....each precious puff of air becomes a luxury!....When you're almost DEAD,because you cant breath,,and you think about cigarette smoke,,the whole idea of smoking becomes grotesque!............Like I said,,there is no one more hypocritical,and intense as a former smoker....I was lucky in a way..I got so sick,that I was literally gasping for air,,it reminded me of catching fish,,and seeing some trout or salmon gasping for water/(air).......I AM SO FUCKING LUCKY TO BE ALIVE!!!!...(Praise the Lord!)
 
....anyway.....FoM.....it's time to quit!!!!!...Same with you CongressmanSuet!.....I know,,it's easier said than done,,,but if you ever get short of air,,like I did,,you will remember me,,and kick yourself in the ass for being stupid..........
 
I'm gonna take my dog for a walk now,,before the fireworks get too hairy,,,,,but I'm not done with my speil yet...I got more to say about all this,,and please know,,that all this is aimed at no one specific,,,I'm just tellin' ya'all what I know,,and you can take it or leave it..............
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #16 posted by Industrial Strength on July 04, 2002 at 19:06:53 PT
confusedddd
as to how someone intelligent could utter the phrase "a nagging bacon habit will kill you as quick as cigarettes." Bacon, albeit very tasty, isn't as addictive as heroin. If someone was truly a bacon addddict, then, yes, what you said would hold true. But therein lies the ddddifference...I know it's somewhat silly of me to even bring up that point, and I hope I ddddiddddn't over ddddo the dddd thing.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #15 posted by CongressmanSuet on July 04, 2002 at 19:06:14 PT
I did this with Pepsi a few years ago,....
 I found a store in Rutherford, NJ. who was giving me 40 cents a can when I paid 23 cents. I try to do my part to unravell the evil empire. Every little bit helps....
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #14 posted by dddd on July 04, 2002 at 18:52:55 PT
....Cigarettes...and Taxes....
...It seems to me,,..that for the government,,to collect hugely dispropiortionate amounts of taxes on cigarettes is PREPOSTEROUS!!...Where are the taxes on BACON!?....It may sound silly,,but a nagging bacon habit will kill you as quick as cigarettes!...What will be next?..Some sort of penalty,or tax for being overweight?...,,,and,,perhaps the biggest outrage,,is the fact that tobacco farmers are still,,to this day,subsidized by the federal governkment with our tax dollars?!!!?......Here's my solution,,,If we're gonna subsidize tobacco farmers,,then let's do it with the tobacco taxes that smokers pay.....I'm glad...I dont really care how much cigarettes cost anymore...and the price of cigarettes had nothing to do with me quitting after 30 years of hardcore smoking.
 
..BUT...the thing that really fries me,,is the absurd,and idiotic way tyhat these tobacco taxes are used!..I'm quite sure most of it is frittered away on those fucking stupid anti-smoking ads.....Would it not make more sense to provide free heath care for anyone who gets a smoking related illness?..After all,,that was the original justification for the tax in California,and nationally..The tax was supposed to somehow offset the health care costs related to smoking......Smokers should get medical care credit,for every pack they buy.The cost of a pack of smokes is probably around .75 cents nowdays....so..if you figure that here in CA,they are about $5.00 a pack retail,, then that means that about $4.00 per pack is going into some mystery tax slush fund,,where assholes can mess with it in whatever way they choose!.....ddddisgusted!!
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #13 posted by Industrial Strength on July 04, 2002 at 18:34:36 PT
nicorette
I would never have been able to do it without nicorette. Ironically, it costs more than actual cigarettes do, but it was worth it for me. You dont get that nice buzz (unless you take two pieces and chew them up quickly, contrary to the directions, lol) but it takes the edge off. Everytime I smoke a cigarette now, it's never as good as I remember. I still mentally crave them all the time. They give me this strange confidence.
[ Post Comment ]

 


Comment #12 posted by FoM on July 04, 2002 at 18:30:55 PT

p4me amd IS
We got cigarettes cheap when we went down south but am not sure what state that it was. I was born in Winston - Salem, North Carolina.Industrial Strength I felt like Jabba the Hut when I was that heavy. The horse I rode groaned when I got on him. No I'm just kidding about that. Food just tastes so good when you don't smoke and you get oxygen high to boot! Maybe I'll quit again someday. I just keep postponing it because I get so snappy and I don't like being snappy. My blood pressure was high when I didn't smoke and now it's normal. Go figure!
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #11 posted by Industrial Strength on July 04, 2002 at 18:21:39 PT

I know what you mean
about eating...I gained close to thirty pounds but I'm slowly but surely shedding it. Almost all gone and I can fit into my favorite pair of jeans again (I sound like a woman :P). Helps to be this age, I guess. I still smoke the odd cigarette every now and then, even buy the odd pack. Ten dollars is pretty atrocious, but that's ten Canadian dollars and you do get 25 in a pack here...I think it might be a good thing. I doubt it will do much for people already smoking, but it might make some new smokers think twice. In Winnipeg, you can't smoke in any building where minors are permitted.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #10 posted by FoM on July 04, 2002 at 18:15:14 PT

Industrial Strength
10 dollars! That's horrible. I quit smoking for almost 10 years and then started to smoke again unfortunately. I saved a lot of money when I quit but I ate everything in site and gained 50 pounds and felt lousy. I lost all the weight and feel much better now. Heart disease would have surely killed me at the pace I was packing away food when I quit smoking cigarettes. It's darn if you do and darn if you don't!
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #9 posted by p4me on July 04, 2002 at 18:11:11 PT

Cigarettes and Indian Reservations
Indian reservations do not have to pay cigarette taxes. The lowest tax in the country is 2.5 cents in Virginia and they really had a hissy when they recently tried to raise the tax by one cent. It is a topic of conversation by our North Carolina legislature. They are trying their best not to raise taxes before the election in four months, but I guess it will go up by 50 cents shortly thereafter. Our tax is now 5 cents only behind Kentucky, Virginia, and maybe South Carolina as lowest in the country.1,2
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #8 posted by Industrial Strength on July 04, 2002 at 18:09:44 PT

here in MB
cigs are almost $10 a pack. Makes me glad I quit.
[ Post Comment ]



 


Comment #7 posted by FoM on July 04, 2002 at 17:41:57 PT

Check out these prices
I don't know if this site is legit but they do have some brand names that are reasonable. Years ago we bought cigarettes in either Arizona or New Mexico but I can't remember which state. It was on an Indian Reservation.http://yesmoke.com/eng/order.asp?Country=USA&x=55&y=9
[ Post Comment ]



 


Comment #6 posted by dddd on July 04, 2002 at 17:39:55 PT

...CongressmanSuet...
.."On my next trip I am going to TOTALLY
      fill my van with cigarettes and sell to anyone I can for the fair price of 2 bucks a pack. Wish me luck! Civil disobedience
      lives on!!!
 
 
...Right on....I wish you luck,,,but if you get busted,,it could get quite nasty.You will be charged with federal interstate commerce charges...By the time your attorney bails you out of it all,,,you cwill have paid alot more,than if you would have smoked the whole vanload yourself!....We know how forgiving and reasonable federal judges are,,and there you would be,,in front of the judge,,a rebellious cigarette smoker......Maybe you would get lucky,,and have a judge who is a smoker,,,but more likely,,you will gey a judge who is an ex-smoker!.... Many ex-smokers,have a tendency to be very hypocritical and intollerant.
 
 
..I admire,and support the "civil disobedience" idea,,,but I thought you knew that civil disobedience is no longer allowed in the US...Civil disobedience has another name now,,,'"Civil Terrorism".....dddd
[ Post Comment ]



 


Comment #5 posted by freedom fighter on July 04, 2002 at 17:32:46 PT

Of course, C.Suet!
You will not have to check anybody's ID...ff
[ Post Comment ]



 


Comment #4 posted by CongressmanSuet on July 04, 2002 at 17:19:46 PT

WEll, I have to pay for gas....
Dont I?
[ Post Comment ]



 


Comment #3 posted by CongressmanSuet on July 04, 2002 at 17:18:01 PT

Retraction....

 I will offer packs for 3 dollars a piece, why be greedy?
[ Post Comment ]



 


Comment #2 posted by CongressmanSuet on July 04, 2002 at 17:12:10 PT

I know its off topic here, but freedom does ring..

  Im a smoker. I know, I have tried to quit a hundred times to no avail.I reside 80 miles north of NYC where butts just hit 7 dollars a pack. I think its time to do something about this abdomination. I make regular trips back to West Virginia once a month, where 5 packs of Marlboro can be purchased fo 8 dollars and 71 cents. On my next trip I am going to TOTALLY fill my van with cigarettes and sell to anyone I can for the fair price of 2 bucks a pack. Wish me luck! Civil disobedience lives on!!!
[ Post Comment ]



 


Comment #1 posted by Jose Melendez on July 04, 2002 at 12:27:29 PT

almost unrelated
from: http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAK5FEZ83D.html

"Some say that tobacco and responsibility just don't go together - that a business can't be responsible if its products can harm people," said (Cigarette maker British American Tobacco) chairman, Martin Broughton. 

"However, our products are legal and no government seeks prohibition. The millions of consumers who buy tobacco and the thousands of farmers who grow it are not about to vanish." 
Tobacco Giant Releases Report on Social Responsibility
[ Post Comment ]






  Post Comment