cannabisnews.com: Higher Immorality?
Higher Immorality?
Posted by CN Staff on June 20, 2002 at 08:27:42 PT
By Dean Schabner
Source: ABCNews.com
For Jennifer Wallace, the revelation came four years ago, after she found out that a friend of hers who she knew came from a devout Christian family smoked marijuana, and she became worried about the young woman. Wallace, a devout Christian herself, started looking into the research on marijuana and what she found surprised her. She said she found no evidence to back up the horrible things she had heard about the drug, and when she searched the Bible for any reference to it she found nothing at all.
So she began to wonder why some religious leaders seemed to favor stiff penalties for marijuana users.She even decided to try smoking it, though she had always been afraid before."I was very surprised that I wasn't very different than I was before," she said of the experience. "I believe it made me think more, and thinking more is always good."Those experiences led the 35-year-old mother of five to start the Christians for Cannabis Web site, and to begin a campaign of letter-writing to legislators, religious leaders and newspapers, urging an end to the marijuana prohibition and more research into potential uses of the drug, she said.Christians for Cannabis, which describes part of its mission as "to provide encouragement, support and prayer for the Christian cannabis user subculture as a whole and those that work on its behalf," may be the extreme, but it is not the only religious group advocating an end to the war on drugs.The Presbyterian Church (USA), the Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations, the Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends and the Progressive Jewish Alliance are among the groups that have lent their support to a call by the National Coalition for Effective Drug Policies to redirect efforts to curtail drug use.These organizations all make clear that their opposition to current drug policy is based not on support for drug use, but out of a belief that the war on drugs has done more harm than good and that it is essentially immoral."The war on drugs has been an abysmal failure in any practical sense, and the number of people who are being victimized by the war is fairly awful," said Thomas Jeavons, the general secretary of the Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends, a group of Quakers."The war on drugs affects our society in so many negative ways," Universal Unitarians for Drug Policy Reform executive director Charles Thomas said. "We believe underlying it all is an immoral approach to dealing with a health problem." An Evolving ProcessThe thrust of the NCEDP's statement, "Eight Steps to Effectively Controlling Drug Abuse and the Drug Market," is that criminalizing drug use has failed to curtail drug use, and that society would be better served by a "shift to treating drug abuse as a health problem with social and economic implications.""It's an evolving process — reform," NCEDP president Kevin Zeese said. "We've seen over the last five or six years more denominations realize that the drug war is hurting their denominations and does more harm than good. They're seeing in their own experience that their people are hurting from the drug war."A broad range of treatment programs should be made available on request, and should include alternatives to "abstinence-based treatment," such as methadone and other alternative maintenance drugs, according to the program. The statement also calls for mental health treatment and broader social services to deal with "the underlying causes of addiction."These programs should be focused on abusers and addicts, not on everyone who uses drugs, the statement says.Among other aspects, the statement calls for increased funding for after-school programs, job training and mentoring programs to keep young people "interested and involved in life," and a shift in the focus of law enforcement from prosecution of low-level, nonviolent drug offenders to those who are the most dangerous and violent. Conservatives for Drug Policy Reform The aim, according to Zeese, is to create a drug policy that treats the problem as a social and public health issue, and deals with abusers and addicts as human beings who can be more effectively brought back into society with help rather than punishment.He said the policy of treating drug abuse as a criminal issue is responsible for much of the spread of HIV and AIDS, because it bans needle exchange programs that have been shown to be effective, and for many overdose deaths, because people are afraid to get help, fearing the legal consequences of their drug abuse."That's what I mean by the immorality of those who support the drug war," Zeese said. "They let a deadly epidemic spread because of zero tolerance."The Philadelphia Quakers, one of the largest groups within the non-heirarchical denomination, signed on not because they share the view of Christians for Cannabis that drug use is a neutral issue, Jeavons said."Absolutely not. If you know anything about Quakers, you know we're a fairly conservative lot," he said. "However, we believe that there must be a better answer to the problem. We encourage our members to avoid these substances or use them in moderation." Consulting Conscience The Philadelphia Yearly Meeting formed a Drug Concerns Working Group in 1997, and in 1998 drew up a minute, or brief statement in early 1998. He said that the importance of the issue was reinforced when members took part in the so-called "shadow convention" held in conjunction with the Republican National Convention in Philadelphia in 2000.The minute makes clear the Philadelphia Quakers' objections both to current drug policy and to drug abuse, and calls on Friends to do what they can to change that policy and to help others stop their misuse of drugs.The Unitarian Universalists' objection to the treatment of drug abuse has a long history, dating back to 1970, when the denomination passed three drug policy reform resolutions, calling for legalization of marijuana and heroin maintenance programs.In 2000, the denomination passed a resolution calling for all congregations to study the issue and develop a comprehensive "Statement of Conscience," which will be voted on at the General Assembly to be held on June 24.The effort is to draw up a statement of "what the ideal drug policy would look like," Thomas said."It is remarkably good, recognizing the distinction between use and abuse, and calling for removal of criminal penalties for possession," he said. Challenge to ‘Hypocrisy’ Assuming the statement passes, Thomas said it will be taken to other denominations for their consideration. He said that the Unitarian Universalists for Drug Policy Reform have already worked to spread the group's message by sending speakers to drug policy conventions and discussing the issue with representatives of other religious groups.Part of that campaign will be to engage those Christian leaders who say they favor the current drug policies in debate over the issue."We will challenge people on their position, really start to call people on their hypocrisy, because that's really what it is, hypocrisy," Thomas said. "These people are doing the exact opposite of what Jesus taught."He said the statement and the Unitarian Universalists draw much of their inspiration from Jesus' own words."People often justify the war on drugs by saying drug use is inherently immoral," he said. "That's not what Jesus said. He said, it's not what goes into a person, it's what comes out. If we meet people with love and respect, we can help them more." Complete Title: Higher Immorality? For Some Religious Groups, Drug Laws Do More Harm Than Drugs ThemselvesSource: ABCNews.comAuthor: Dean SchabnerPublished: June 20, 2002Copyright: 2002 ABC News Internet VenturesWebsite: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Contact: http://www.abcnews.go.com/onair/email.htmlCommon Sense for Drug Policyhttp://www.csdp.org/Christians for Cannabishttp://www.christiansforcannabis.com/CannabisNews - Cannabis Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/cannabis.shtml
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Comment #41 posted by Lehder on June 23, 2002 at 04:56:23 PT
my bumper stickers
MY CHILD SUPPORTS SADDAM HUSSEINIF YOU DON'T KNOW JESUS YOU DON'T KNOW SHITINDIAN LAKE
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Comment #40 posted by BGreen on June 23, 2002 at 01:37:45 PT
pppp, I think you're OK with God ...unless ...
you were thinking about "Dick Nixon,or Chuck Manson,or Albert Quieda" when you were ... um, ... well, you know.
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Comment #39 posted by pppp on June 23, 2002 at 00:31:34 PT
...yea...
..I'll bet you dont see too many "god bless america",,bumper stickers in Europe,or Colombia....I have yet to hear one good reason why,,"god",,should bless america!?...what,,did we do something special,that god should "bless" us for????....I think "god bless america" bumper stickers,are less credible than me new;.."god fry america in HELL!" bumper sticker,with the upside down flag!...........;"may god scorch and singe the evil asses of the pigs in the american empire who have succumbed to the evils of wealth and greed....May they fry in HELL,,with red hot pain and suffering equivilent to that which they have caused!"..........
......of course,,,I'm only kidding...I am not one to be so cheap and childish,to suggest that anyones ass should burn in hell,,,after all,,what makes me any better than anyone else???...I've been "bad" before,,and who do I think I am,in trying to suggest that I would be able to "judge",,various,"levels of badness"..????... heck,,for all I know,,God is more pissed off at me for masturbating,,than he is with Dick Nixon,or Chuck Manson,or Albert Quieda....after all,,,who can say they actually "KNOW",,what the levels of badness,or "sin" are?....What a nitemare,,,perhaps people like me,,who have masturbated once or maybe several times in their lives,,maybe the "mortgage",on our guilt/sin level violation,,is far worse than the sultans of the empire,,who have perhaps only done what was necessary to maintain civilizations destiny,,and they were actually somehow "serving god",in an obscure,but necessary way,,in that they carried out the required evils to fullfill the actuality of the end times????......
.....Love...from outer space
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Comment #38 posted by BGreen on June 22, 2002 at 23:57:03 PT
Off-topic, but a funny bumper sticker
I saw this on a pick-up down around Branson, MO:
If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
I think there were a couple of drunks in Amsterdam that felt that way about me. LOL
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Comment #37 posted by dddd on June 22, 2002 at 23:37:57 PT
..CongressmanSuet..
..I'm glad you shared your bumper sticker thing,..I have entertained thoughts of displaying the same bumper stickers,but in my case,I dont really need to draw any further attention to my vehichle and self,,than I already get ....I've thought about displaying a DARE sticker,just to throw them off my trail,,,but instead, I decided to display these little decals from the California Officers support fund,,or something .....Actually,,I almost enjoy getting pulled over nowdays...So I can proudly offer up my holographic California drivers license,with the credit card reader strip on the back,,and my "California Proof of Insurance" card,,,,and let the cop know I havnt had a ticket in 14 years,,and invite them to search my vehicle,and myself,,and be overly cooperative in a way that is designed to subtly annoy the officer....,,,I've even thought of the stupid idea of making a "Go Ahead And Pull Me Over..COP!!"...bumper sticker,,,,,,or maybe...; "Off the Pigs,,Legalize Drugs!",,now those would be some daring,and interesting bumper stickers...kinda like bait that one would use in trolling for fish....?.....dddd
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Comment #36 posted by CongressmanSuet on June 22, 2002 at 18:53:35 PT
"My Blue Police State"...
I know its off topic, but Kap's bumpersticker captured my imagination. I have 2 stickers, one "There should be limits to freedom" and the other "Comments about my driving? Call 1-800-KISSMYASS" Sorry, but I felt compelled to share that...Whats funny about this, is that I was pulled over 2 times a few years ago by NJ troopers who admitted to me that my bumperstickers caught their eye. Amerika...WHAT HAPPENED?
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Comment #35 posted by BGreen on June 22, 2002 at 16:08:53 PT
BGreen wishes to BFree
Thanks for the reply, Harvey Pendrake.
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Comment #34 posted by Harvey Pendrake on June 21, 2002 at 23:27:29 PT
BGreen...
Oops. I meant to address that last message to BGreen.Carry on.........
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Comment #33 posted by Harvey Pendrake on June 21, 2002 at 23:24:23 PT
BFree..........
Unitarians may "generally believe in God as the source of mind and spirit"...but I'm not sure I do, and no one in the Unitarian church bats an eye about my lack of belief.I know that's a source of confusion for many people who come from a more traditional, dogmatic religious background.Also, when I go to church, I go to socialize with people who are open-minded, and expose myself to new ideas. I worship no man or god.But that's just me. I reject dogma and superstition, and the Unitarians are cool with that.
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Comment #32 posted by BGreen on June 21, 2002 at 20:34:59 PT
kaptinemo
Broad stereotyping of any group with millions of members is pretty meaningless, don't you think? That's what we say when we're all called a bunch of loser stoners, isn't it?Blame who you want, but I guarantee you that the diversity in the prohibitionist ranks is as wide as that of the posters in this group.
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Comment #30 posted by i420 on June 21, 2002 at 16:57:34 PT
Boycott
While you are boycotting be sure to buy only Canadian products whenever wherever you can !!!! Lool for "Product of Canada" on the label. You may be suprised how many Canadian products are available in the U.S.
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Comment #29 posted by kaptinemo on June 21, 2002 at 09:12:51 PT:
Payback...of another sort
I have a bumper sticker on my car that says:Religious groups should stay out of politics...or be taxed. There's plenty of reasons why. This is just one of them.Anyone who knows anything about the early history of the DrugWar would know of the huge role the Christian Fundamentalists played in the formulation of the drug laws:http://www.drugwar.com/blackfiends.shtmand why.Now, many years later, other Fundamentalist Christians are fighting what many of their predecessors have saddled us with. No disrespect to the Christians for Cannabis, but their interest began only when they were personally affected...while many of us have been fighting for years for purely abstract reasons; some of us don't even smoke, just believe the laws are wrong. But my main point? We wouldn't be in this mess at all if it weren't for the unwarranted interference of people who thought they had a God-given right to tell others how to live. The aftermath of the early Fundies in their support of the nascent DrugWar has left enduring but rarely recognized inroads into lawmaking and enforcement. Just look at the physical handling of illicit drug users by police; it is a direct result of the early religious leaders' attitudes towards illicit drug users. Namely, that they are immoral scum undeserving of humane treatment. These unseen 'dead hands' of these long deceased 'paragons of virtue' have been around the throats of the nation ever since, choking off any chance of rational debate by removing the necessity for debate; you don't, as some of our purblind Congresscritters and Sin-a-tors have actually said in sworn testimony, (conflating illicit drug law reformers with murderers) debate with murderers on the value of anti-murder legislation. Such would be perforce, 'immoral'.The actions of politically active Fundies early in the last century is causing grief to some in this century...as well as to the rest of us. What comes around goes around...and around...and around...
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Comment #28 posted by FoM on June 20, 2002 at 22:42:29 PT
Thanks Dan!
I just sent it to myself. Very good idea. Everyone should email this article to friends and even themselves.http://sendtofriend.abcnews.go.com/sendtofriend/mostsent
What's New in Drug Policy Reform
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Comment #27 posted by BGreen on June 20, 2002 at 22:20:36 PT
Let me rephrase that question, Harvey
I did a quick browse of The Encyclopedia Of American Religions, and I see that Jesus is regarded as a great prophet, so disregard my statement about worshiping Christ.The basis of Modern Unitarian belief is the free search for truth. The Encyclopedia Of American ReligionsHowever, it also says Unitarians generally believe in God as the source of mind and spirit.Both are cool things, but I was interested in how someone who has atheistic leanings fit into that equation.
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Comment #26 posted by BGreen on June 20, 2002 at 21:58:49 PT
?????
Unitarians are tolerant, liberal thinkers. I am an agnostic (with strong atheist leanings), and have been a member of the Unitarian church for several years.If you don't go to worship Christ, then you are obviously searching. If you're leaning towards atheism, maybe the Unitarian church isn't the place where you're going to find it.I'm just curious, not condemning you, but why do you go to church, and what do you do there?
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Comment #25 posted by Dan B on June 20, 2002 at 21:54:00 PT:
Most sent article via email
ABC.com has a link on the page that contains this article where you can view the top recent articles sent via email. This article is #1 with 841 sends as of 11:42 p.m. Central Time, almost 400 more sends than the #2 article. This in itself should send a very clear signal to ABC.com that this sort of reporting is very much appreciated. That they keep track of such data at all suggests that it is important to them, and I would bet that we can expect more articles like this in the future.So, Kudos to those who emailed the article to friends and family. And, now that we know they are keeping track, let's be sure to continue this trend for future pot-positive articles.Dan B
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Comment #24 posted by Harvey Pendrake on June 20, 2002 at 21:46:49 PT
Note to Grandad and others...
Here's a link to the Unitarian Drug Law Reform web site:http://www.uudpr.org/index.htmlThe Unitarian church should NOT be confused with the Unification church (the Moonies).Unitarians are tolerant, liberal thinkers. I am an agnostic (with strong atheist leanings), and have been a member of the Unitarian church for several years. Check them out.
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Comment #23 posted by FoM on June 20, 2002 at 20:08:28 PT
Here's feedback for Christians for Cannabis
Hello Grandad,Here's a feedback form for their web site. I'll see if I can find anymore or maybe someone else might post helpful information.http://www.christiansforcannabis.com/feedback.html
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Comment #22 posted by Grandad on June 20, 2002 at 20:03:06 PT
Pro pot religious groups
Does anone know hot to contact those churches that are supporting decriminalization? We should tell them of what we think of what they are doing.
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Comment #21 posted by paul peterson on June 20, 2002 at 17:18:57 PT:
ABCNEWS.COM
People, people. Please go online to ABCNEWS.com and tell them in your best grammer how much we all care about these issues, and how good their coverage is on this story, and ask them when we can expect to see the story on the TELE, OK? This slant is so good, we must encourage them further.This story is a bellweather event. Think of it: 3/6/02, CBS NEWS ran a 48 hour story about "Jeff", the 8 year old that takes pot by a homemade pill for his conduct disorder or something, that helps him where 17 of those machine packaged "pills" didn't do squat, and 200,000 people jammed the internet to give his mom an 89% approval rating!Now Jini finally gets her due, for sitting here in the good old Land of Lincoln (downstate, way down in corn country) and keeping her web site up and running, right in the midst of a MAJOR LEGISLATIVE PUSH TO MAKE A WEB SITE LIKE HERS A CRIME, merely to talk about POT! I think the law was unanymously passed by the state HOUSE, and then died in committee in the SENATE. Jini kept her site up through the whole ordeal, though, and got the attention of the ABC NEWS people, and KUDOS to the news team!.Also, please go to DISNEY.COM and tell them (also in your best grammer) how refreshing it was to see their w ave length boys doing this story, etc.Now about this boycott thing-Yes, stop using restaurants, and tell them what you are doing. Tell them that you want to see hemp products sold over the counter, and then you will come back. Go to some Hemp Advocacy site, get some literature, give it out, tell these people how you POSITIVELY want to see things changed. THIS IS CALLED THE CARROT AND THE STICK APPROACH. It works twice as good as the typical boycott. If the personality of the store owner is resentful, the positive change you want to engender will overcome them quicker. Now about Robin Prosser. Please get to her site and donate something to her "HEMP DIET" fund. Tell her to start advertizing hemp products and to endorse them, and to report on the taste, value, nutrition, etc. That gives her an important place in the MOVEMENT and training for being a spokesperson. Next year, we will need to have her in good shape, and in good spirits, and with a good following for her SENATE TESTIMONY regarding the rescheduling hearings!She has earned your trust, your support and your loyalty, by going over 60 days for the hope of making some changes here. (I sent a letter to John Ashcroft asking him to please try to save her life-and that she would probably do some anti-drug commercials to keep kids off her "medicine", since we don't want kids to do anything that might make them want to skip school.) I'm hoping the guy is softening to her plight at least, even if he doesn't care about people getting locked up.I'm thinking we may be about a week away from some major news stories about the 9th Circuit! Keep your fingers crossed. PAUL PETERSON
http://ILLINOIS-MMI.org
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Comment #20 posted by purplethumbplum on June 20, 2002 at 15:53:46 PT:
To Heal the Sick or to support TERRORISM?
what right does the DEA have telling a DR what they can perscribe? Are any DEA agents DRs? If the DEA are not DRs why do DRs listen to people who have no power over them? If the DEA were to take action against these DRs couldnt the DRs file charges against the DEA for impersonating a DR? DRs swear a oath the MIlitary swears a Oath aJudge swears a Oath the President swears a Oath anyone who would go against these DRs would be supporting propaganda for personal gain which is TREASON AGAINST TRUTH. All this in which would support TERRORISM. Ask yourself a question. Which side am I on?
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Comment #19 posted by Lehder on June 20, 2002 at 15:13:55 PT
Boycott Now
Right Now is the very best time for boycotts. An article on the Common Dreams site today tells how US exports to Saudi Arabia have dropped 33% because of a popular boycott on American goods there. Thats what Arabs can do; we can do more, and I expect this movement to grow. It's the world's best weapon against the richest, most aggressive empire in history.Boycotting American goods NOW does not mean you're siding with Islamic fundamentalists. It means that the economic effect of your action will be magnified, and magnified further because of the sorry state of the economy, the pathetic stock market, the trade deficit's record high, and the weakening dollar. Just make sure that people and companies know why you're boycotting them. Your timing could not be better. Remember - alcohol prohibition ended with the depression. If boycotts did not work, if in fact Bush & Co. was not scared to death, then it would not be urging us to shop. That's Bush's biggest vulnerability for the moment. That's why he said, "Get out and fly! Take your family!" Stay home, and tell the airlines why. Tell them you like to take a little weed with you.By the way, I read somewhere that the Rolling Stones will be touring the US later this year. Maybe we ought to take a look at Jagger's political attitude at 58.Dine with p4me, and don't drink any Coke. Instead of traveling or spending money, take this time to educate or improve yourself in some way - inexpensively. Be ready for the better world to come.
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Comment #18 posted by E_Johnson on June 20, 2002 at 14:21:13 PT
Let's start taking names
It only takes one incident of getting yelled at or kicked out of a show for me. There are 3 or 4 clubs, arenas, and stadiums in my area that I will no longer buy tickets for as result of getting kicked out. And for each one of those, there is another one where smoking in openly tolerated.
It would be nice to get a list together of the major venues and their policies and so on.Artist fan site message boards would be a good place to gather such information.
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Comment #17 posted by Sam Adams on June 20, 2002 at 13:53:53 PT
I've always....
lived my life with this rule: If everyone acted the way I do, what would happen? That's how my father taught me to think. It's called character. You don't need the fucking NAACP to tell you when to boycott. If you say, oh, I'm just one person, it won't have any effect, you are really saying "I want to live in a totalitarian society where I have no choice over anything in my life". Because that's exactly where your actions will take you.It only takes one incident of getting yelled at or kicked out of a show for me. There are 3 or 4 clubs, arenas, and stadiums in my area that I will no longer buy tickets for as result of getting kicked out. And for each one of those, there is another one where smoking in openly tolerated. And, what a surprise, the ones that don't tolerate it are the ones with corporate names, the highest ticket prices, and the most has-been, past-their-prime type bands. Who the hell wants to pay $80 to see some band full of geriatric has-beens? Not me. Take a look around. Impromptu "boycotts" are working rather well. The NBA is about to collapse because of poor ticket sales - most of the teams play the whole season to a bunch of empty seats. The quality of play sinks lower every year, and the prices keep getting higher. People are staying away in droves.I didn't comment on the other thread, but I would also like to lament the changes that have happened in the live music scene since the early 80's. During that time, I went to a few heavy-metal shows while in high school. The cautionary-type pre-show talk from my parents scared the crap out of me, I thought the metalheads were going to eat me alive. Instead, the leather-and-spike-clad people at the shows were some of the most outwardly friendly and generous people I'd ever been exposed to. People in the parking lot would come up to you and start laughing and joking with you. Joints were passed back and forth all during the show, people would tap you on the back to hand it to you. Now, the same activity at your local corporate-named arena will earn you a visit by a team of 5 or 6 uniformed rent-a-thug security guards, and a quick escort outside. And the price of the experience has quadrupled! No thanks, I'd rather see some indy band at a local club - the music's usually better the commercial trash and the arena anyways.It's true though, there's no way you can explain the free-and-easy culture of the 70's to people that missed it. Nowadays we live in a capitalistic frenzy of greed, corporate logos, and 80 hour work weeks. A total loss of civility has occurred.If you ever read the book "Tuesdays with Morrie", there's a really interesting attitude that Morrie (the guy that's dying) explains. He used to do crazy stuff like go out to clubs dancing while he was in his 50's, etc. He explained his philosophy: if the culture that surrounds you doesn't suit you, create your own culture. That's what I try to do every day. (By the way, that is a great book and only takes a couple hours to read, I highly recommend it)
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Comment #16 posted by E_Johnson on June 20, 2002 at 13:43:20 PT
A few crazy idiots always have to go first
The way I study the feminist movement is as a combination of conservative and radical movements. Tjis is also how we should look at the marijuana movement.The conservatives make the reasonable proposals and do what is realistic. But the envelope of what is reasonable and realsitic always confines them and traps them in the end. The people whose job it is to punch holes in the envelope of what is reasonable or realistic are the radicals, and they do their job by taking positions and committing to actions that seem at that time and place to be profoundly unreasonable and unrealistic.Conservatives have their job, radicals have theirs.The point is not to debate which is a more valid path of action, the point is for every individual in the movement to figure out which path he or she wants to follow, and then to follow that path and follow it well.
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Comment #15 posted by p4me on June 20, 2002 at 13:23:35 PT
staying cool
p4me... I admire your idealistic stance on boycotting everything that has to do with this War economy, and it would probably create a noticable effect... if everyone in the U.S. regularly read this board, your posts, and followed through with action. But, that's not gonna happen, is it?Well first I do not think that I am an idealist and secondly I know that everyone in the US is going to participate in cutting funding to the terrorist government. Really all I am doing is presenting an idea and if it is a good idea it will be passed along and grow. The biggest thing I said earlier was that one thing that the struggling individual could do is vote with their money. I regard that as absolute truth. Everyone knows that if marijuana users all worked in concert, no pun intended on the concert discussion, we could change things. So, everyone that choses to do something gives it their on best shot, while others just complain. We are up against a power play and not an intellectual discussion. The rest of the English speaking world is having a discussion because the criminal justice system is not working for drug-abuse problems and they are tired of the bullshit. We don't have a discussion in this country because of the stonewall attitude of bought and paid for Congressmen and conglomerate media with conglomerate advertisers.So I offerred the same idea to starve the economy and have a thrifty meal- something that anyone could easily do. Now, do I think even the members of the choir have written "What is the value of a thrifty meal" on a brown lunch bag and taken it to work. Maybe a few, but certainly not many. But the seed is planted in their head and when they really get the idea that they are funding their own demise, the gears might click and they too will cut their personal funding to the terrorist and corrupt government.I say it is the best thing you can do today to stop the WOSD. I say the time to do it is now, because once the November elections are over it will be two more years before we can change the assholes in Congress. Not only are you depriving the government of money, you are sending a message that you understand what is going on. Then maybe they won't piss away another billion $ over 5 years trying to twist people's thinking.The idea is there for you to take and it will make some difference. If you are waiting for Bill Maher to call for a boycott, you might as well go back to complaining and shouting at the stone wall.1,2
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Comment #14 posted by E_Johnson on June 20, 2002 at 13:03:26 PT
By the way, has anyone seen The Osbournes?
What I find amazing about this MTV show is that Ozzie Osbourne is being held up in the mainstream media as the model of an addled pothead, his brain fried from weed, while on his actual show he tells people constantly that:a. He is an alcoholic not a potheadb. He sounds funny because he has a thick working class Birmingham accent and everyone from Birmingham sounds a bit addled to outsidersc. He's taking prescribed antipsychotic medication that gives him the occasional shakes and causes short term memory lossMeanwhile, his son Jack is the family pothead. But Jack is also the family logician, the family cool head, the one in the family who is the most coherent and the least emotional, the one in the family who appears to be the most sane. The one Ozzie always has to call to turn on the TV, the stereo, the microwave.But he's also the one who always gets hassled by his father over his bong.Poor Jack Osbourne, grew up with a raging alcoholic for a Dad, and now he's probably, at this stage, someone who could be considered a medical marijuana user, because the poor kid has had so much overwhelming stuff to deal with from the bad behavior of his major male role model that he is hugging that bong for dear life and with good reason.
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Comment #13 posted by E_Johnson on June 20, 2002 at 12:45:28 PT
Why just Indiana?
I like your ideas, firedog & E, simple and to the point. But I think for it to work effectively, it needs to come from somebody in Indiana. (outside agitators are usually not welcome. But anybody's money is always welcome.) This is Indiana's NORML info for those of you in the state:
This is a nationwide problem. Why stress NORML, they have enough to do.Music fans of all people should not be targeted for weed. This is a big subject. MTV has been pandering to the prohibs like crazy lately. They had the nerve to try to use Steven Tyler as a Drug War salvation story during their celebration of Aerosmith.Thank heavens the man had the balls to come out and say on camera that his band produced a lot of great music when they were high.This is a cultural cleansing being attempted here and if we don't resist, future generations will have the moral right to spit on our graves in contempt of our cowardice.
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Comment #12 posted by E_Johnson on June 20, 2002 at 12:35:48 PT
CannabisRevolt.com?
Here is a three part plan for doing what we've been brewing:1. Agree that there is a way in which we WANT to be treated. Establish that as our gold standard.2. Figure out which concert venues in the country depart the most egregiously from those standards, and which venues comes the closest towards satisfying it.3. Set up a web site to alert people as to this data. On this web site provide people with tools such a pre-written letters and lists of addresses and phone numbers for taking various actions against those who get on our shit list and for giving positive feedback to those on the good list.
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Comment #11 posted by E_Johnson on June 20, 2002 at 12:33:11 PT
The real world is a collective phenomenon
So, in the real world, this is all we can hope for
Possibly the most noxious words ever spoken. Toxic to the imagination.Conservative activists should stay the fuck away from the radical imagination.In the Women's Suffrage movement, it was the combined efforts of the radicals and conservatives that broke the gates.And the NAACP can't be compared to anything any more, because they no longer have a radical cause or a radical imagination. It's a middle class organization now, fully and totally, and whatever they're doing is not relevant to this cause.
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Comment #10 posted by Morgan on June 20, 2002 at 12:15:38 PT
Boycott
p4me... I admire your idealistic stance on boycotting everything that has to do with this War economy, and it would probably create a noticable effect... if everyone in the U.S. regularly read this board, your posts, and followed through with action. But, that's not gonna happen, is it?Even if everyone who toked read this board (most don't) followed through with the actions you espouse, it might create a blip on the economy, easily dismissed as an economic abberation by financial gurus everywhere, and then...back to business as usual.The idea is to get everyone to KNOW that THIS particular group is flexing their economic muscle and creating this blip.I brought up the NAACP boycotting South Carolina as an example of a group of people with a grievance getting together and making a difference. They chose JUST the state of South Carolina as their target, and had a simple to understand demand. Namely, to get rid of that symbol of racism, the Confederate flag.Confining their attack to a relatively small area, and confining their demand to a simple request, the message was delivered easily through the simplistic media who, in this age, deal only with sound-bites. Again, I don't know if it had any practical affect (I think some kind of compromise was reached), but what I do know, is that it garnered media attention, informing and educating the public at large that there were a lot of pissed off people who wanted to create change, and that the NAACP had this kind of power. And I think that was their main objective. Their secondary objective was to hurt South Carolina's economy. Did they do so? I don't know, but the threat was great enough to garner support from various economic interests, and press the powers-that-be to get off their fat asses and create change.So, in the real world, this is all we can hope for. We are a small David against an army of Goliath's. But they each have their vulnerable area's, and we can knock them out one by one. It's a realistic hope, but one that can only be accomplished if there is some kind of organized resistance. I always thought that is what NORML is for, but maybe they have their hands full with other projects.I like your ideas, firedog & E, simple and to the point. But I think for it to work effectively, it needs to come from somebody in Indiana. (outside agitators are usually not welcome. But anybody's money is always welcome.) This is Indiana's NORML info for those of you in the state:inorml inorml.org Indiana NORML
3601 North Pennsylvania Street
Indianapolis, IN 46205
Phone: (317) 923-9391
Fax: (317) 924-2920Good luck, and good hunting.
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Comment #9 posted by E_Johnson on June 20, 2002 at 11:48:21 PT
Excellent idea
Not only boycott the concert, but also send the money saved to the Marijuana Policy Project, or NORML, Christians for Cannabis, a MMJ provider, or even one of the religious organizations listed in this article, together with a note explaining why.Then also send a letter to the concert promoter explaining who got the money and why.
And send copies of this same letter to the artist's management company, the record label and to the local music media where the concert was being held.And to any companies that may be cross-promoting the event, like Verizon or Anheuser-Busch.
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Comment #8 posted by firedog on June 20, 2002 at 11:10:08 PT
Here's a thought on boycotting
Take the concert ticket example.Not only boycott the concert, but also send the money saved to the Marijuana Policy Project, or NORML, Christians for Cannabis, a MMJ provider, or even one of the religious organizations listed in this article, together with a note explaining why.Then also send a letter to the concert promoter explaining who got the money and why.
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Comment #7 posted by Dan B on June 20, 2002 at 11:07:58 PT:
Re: Politically Incorrect
Is it possible that ABC, owned by Disney, might turn into a counterpoint to FOX? They do "Politically Incorrect" after all... Of course, they also cancelled Politically Incorrect, but that had nothing to do with Maher's stance on drug policy, and I think that firedog's analysis is still good. ABC may, in fact, become the counterpoint to FOX, but not because of some great ideological upheaval going on there. Nope, the reason boils down to money, and ABC has been losing plenty of it fast by trying to please everyone all the time. I think the current trend that firedog is pointing out stems from a need for ABC to set itself apart as an alternative to full-speed-ahead conservatism (FOX) and the wishy-washier networks (NBC and CBS). I thought that NBC was going to try this strategy at MSNBC, and they do seem to be stretching a bit into liberal territory with Phil Donahue and all, but don't forget that they also air the ultra-conservative Alan Keyes's show. Their strategy is to appeal to everyone at least some of the time, which is what ABC has already tried, which doesn't work because you end up pleasing nobody all of the time. So, ABC may be shifting toward pleasing some of the people all of the time (or most of the time) in conjunction with trying to sound somewhat controversial. Certainly, this article seems like a step in that direction.Dan B
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Comment #6 posted by FoM on June 20, 2002 at 11:04:13 PT
I think it's a great article too
I agree that change will come this way. I've always believed this would be the way it would happen.
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Comment #5 posted by WolfgangWylde on June 20, 2002 at 11:00:28 PT
Excellent article....
...I just posted it over Free Republic, come on over
and watch the fur fly.
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Comment #4 posted by p4me on June 20, 2002 at 10:55:29 PT
boycott
First I want to put up a link concerning press on the Dutch Experience in the Leichester newspaper: http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=42626&command=displayContent&sourceNode=42317&contentPK=1905263Colin Davies trial starts Monday.Someone asked in the long thread about boycotting who? Boycott every possible thing you can. There is an unjust war on against people that smoke marijuana and the best way to have an immediate say, as much as possible for one little person, is to vote with your money. When you go one your little happy life tour as if nothing can be done, you are sadly mistaken. You need to make an effort to not support the economy whenever possible. What would happen if everyone realized, "Hey, I can live without paying $60 for two tickets to see a band and I will save $5 in parking." That is $65 not put back into the economy that supports the $40 billion dollar war on drugs.Boycotting is just voting with money. Last night the Republicans had a fundraiser that was to take in $30 million dollars with some plates going for $250,000 a piece. The coverage I saw talked about the Republican drug plan. In the piece I saw it said that the drug companies were thought by many to have the Republicans in their pocket, and they used the words drug companies, and that the Republican draft was short just a few dotted I's and crossed T's and would have been finished yesterday, had the Congressmen not had to go to their big fundraiser.There is a systemic problem with corporate influence over government policy. I think it was the editor of Nation Magazine that was on Charlie Rose and she really knows what is going on. She talked about the newness of our situation. How we pulled out of treaties like it was nothing, talked of using first nuclear strike options in a way that never occurred even during 50 years of cold war. She said the US in the midst of defining itself as either an empire or a republic and that we are not behaving very well as a republic.Yesterday I caught a ride into town for lunch at CiCi Pizza. It was the first time I had eaten out in 3 weeks. The buffet is $3.99 and drinks are $1.09. The sales tax was 66 cents. People could live quite well fixing dinner at home and saving gas, saving the air from pollution, saving wear and tear on their car, and saving a 6 and a half cent sales tax that they now want to give counties the option of raising to seven. The war on people that use marijuana is being supported by the same people everytime you buy something. If just 10 million people would shut their wallets until the next election at least people would ask what is going on. Why are all the restaurants closing? Why is sales tax collection going down? Why is no one at the concert?In a country full of symbols, the brown paper bag for carrying lunch to work needs to be lifted to a new ideal. People would say "Hey Joe don't you get tired of eating those sandwiches?" Can you just think of the answers. "Not as tired of these sandwiches as I am about the government's fraud on the medical marijuana issue. If enough people eat these sandwiches the $40 billion they spend on the WOSD will change from expense to waste. Somebody has to show the BAHstards in Warshington that we do not support the war on people that use marijuana, and by support I mean my wallet is closed."Boycott everything dam it. When you spend money you are supporting the governmental terrorist and that is for real. Without us spending money the whole thing would collapse in a hurry because the economy cannot run without our support.Starve the economy and have a thrifty meal. In the Dollar We Trust.1,2
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Comment #3 posted by E_Johnson on June 20, 2002 at 10:48:51 PT
This is how the witch hunts stopped
The witch hunting in Europe didn't stop because the scientists or the political leaders came out and called it a bunch of cruel barbaric nonsense.The witch hunting in Europe stopped because Christian leaders started saying, This is not Christian, our God does not want these cruel things to be done in His name.
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Comment #2 posted by firedog on June 20, 2002 at 10:42:49 PT
More good signs
This is the most positive pro-pot-activism news article I think I've seen on abcnews.com.When I went to the site, it was the second article from the top, too, second only to the SCOTUS ruling that capital punishment is cruel and unusual when applied to mentally retarded people (I guess it's not cruel and unusual when applied to people with a higher IQ, but that's another subject.)It even has a cool little graphic with a glowing bible superimposed over a background of marijuana leaves.What I find interesting is that it seems to be geared towards mainstream Americans with moderate religious viewpoints. It almost seems like there's some kind of conditioning going on, grooming people to accept the inevitable...Is it possible that ABC, owned by Disney, might turn into a counterpoint to FOX? They do "Politically Incorrect" after all... on today's website, they also have an article on Steven Spielberg's concerns about Big Brother and a police state.
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Comment #1 posted by TroutMask on June 20, 2002 at 08:44:25 PT
Good Article
"I believe it made me think more, and thinking more is always good."Not for drug dealers or prohibitionists!It's great to see this article on a 'mainstream' news web site. Christians who support the War on Drugs are evil hypocrites working for the one they are supposed to be working against.-TM
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